thinkprogress.org — Don Blankenship, CEO of Massey Energy, complained last year that it is ?very difficult? to obey ?nonsensical? safety rules. On April 5th , 25 miners died in an explosion at his Upper Big Branch mine in Montcoal, WV, which had racked up thousands of safety violations.
Apr 9, 2010 View in Crawl 4
faskippyApr 10, 2010
Safety rules and OSHA standards came about in the first place because of an issue/injury/death that had to be addressed. You get paid to follow the rules. What the hell is the problem?
northmassApr 10, 2010
IMO a truly free market society would be much more productive so companies would have to do a lot more good for their employees in order to lure them into working for them. Thus, the free market would regulate itself. A company wouldn't have to enforce harsh safety rules, but if they didn't let an independent watchdog group investigate how safe they are, then people would simply not work there as there would be more jobs to choose from anyway.You couldn't transition to this type of situation overnight, I agree, but I think over a decade span of time we could do so.I think having a union would have been very helpful though in this situation. I think a lot of useless and do us no good, but that is not the case all of the time by any means.
mdellingApr 10, 2010
I completely agree. I deal with safety rules in electronics labs all the time. You can tell which rules were created by someone with no experience, because they're the ones that accomplish nothing productive and are a pain to follow. Its not that I'm against safety rules, I just want them to be made by people that have actually done the work.
govtdoesnotworkApr 10, 2010
Yeah. Just tell me how many lives government worker unions of any sort have saved since JFK made 'em legal vs how many lives coal mining unions have saved. No other kind, just coal mining, vs ALL government unions put together. Like I say, in a union like coal mines, there's an adversarial process with management that's actually GOOD when it works right. In a government worker union, not so much, because government workers don't f**king NEED a union like coal miners do. Get it? The facts are concealed in everyone's OPINIONS. I'm sure yours are different than mine. But I still think I'm right just as much as I'm sure you think you're right.
inaktivistApr 11, 2010
Since neither the video nor the brief article suggests what regulations he may be talking about, there's no way to know. I'm simply playing devil's advocate by suggesting that what he meant was not that safety regulations in general are nonsensical, as the title of the submission might have you believe, but that certain regulations that may not increase safety significantly are unreasonably difficult to adhere to. I believe that the former is substantially more likely to be the case.
faskippyApr 11, 2010
Yep. You have to think about what the hell your situation is. If there's work going on overhead, you don't want to take off your hardhat for ANY reason. Someone drops a 1/2" bolt, and you got a problem if it hits you. But on the other hand, a welder, working in open air, may have no reason to be cited for wearing no hardhat under his hood. It's the big picture.
avaugha4Apr 11, 2010
Yeah, warket based safety has been proven so effective...
vegetablelambApr 11, 2010
Amen
diggduggjoeApr 11, 2010
Fascists and socialists are not polar opposites. Fascism is more like Socialism Lite. Socialism is government ownership and control while fascism is private ownership with heavy government control. People like to say fascism is corporatism, but ultimately the government can arrest any owner, so the government is really the one in control. At best a business owner will tolerated by the state as long as they tow the line. Where they seem to differ immensely are the reasons for their actions. Socialists believe in freedom, the freedom from having less economically than your neighbor. Fascists believe in freedom, too, the freedom from danger. I am a libertarian and believe in freedom, the freedom to choose my own life, both personally and economically.It would be hard to put a pure label on any administration for they may not behave consistently across all areas of government control. For example, we own GM, but not Ford. Yet, I would call Obama fascist for now, since he seems content to just call the shots.Ultimately fascism will decay into socialism for many owners will walk away as the regulations become unbearable, the companies fail, replaced by government systems or some owners will resist too much and the state will just take ownership.
ultar6Apr 12, 2010
@joeMining companies will never care about the lives or safety of miners. Without regulation, more miners would die. Give the mines a "true free market" and we'll go back to the nineteenth century, where mines could do whatever they wanted and the deaths of miners were just a cost of doing business.That cost was in finding new miners to take the places of the dead ones and in kicking the dead miners' family out of their house in the company town. Still, I'm sure the family of a dead miner was allowed to spend what company currency they still had, at the company store, in the company town, before they were forced to leave.
bassjam5Apr 12, 2010
Keep voting for Republicans you dumb asses. When I lived in West by God VirginiaThe Unions were strong and the mines were safer.
u2canfailApr 19, 2010
Actually most safety is inexpensive. It is a cost, but like electricity a cost every company should bear. Example: lockout tagout a simple lock system to keep someone from starting and/or using a machine while being worked on. Lock cost under $ 5, for a life, and eye, an arm, a finger? Is $5 too much to ask? Good safety is good for business, small or large. But then you actually have to care about your workers.
graphictruthJun 3, 2010
...and that in all cases, who you vote for (or otherwise invest loyalty or power or money with, expecting a reasonable return on investment) *matters.*