technologyreview.com— New research shows that making drivers pay higher tolls at peak times and tracking their location with RFID or GPS technology can eliminate traffic jams.
Aug 29, 2006View in Crawl 4
It seems obvious to me that this idea will not improve traffic congestion in the least. Automatic tolling by gps location will run up a bill while people forget, until the end of the month when their statement comes in. OR, people will still be driving the same routes because they have somewhere in that area to get to, like work. The only difference, is that now theyre being charged for it on a rolling basis. 20 cents a mile? That would certainly add stress to my day. Enjoy road rage anyone? This will not solve problems, just generate more revenue, begrudgingly.Smart, CLEAN public transportation would make a bigger difference. Implement a more extended star of train stations to suburbia, allow patrons who regularly commute and purchase tickets to use free parking, and observe as more people (hopefully) take advantage of this transportation. No, its not 100% effective, but its a much better step in the right direction.
Most of the traffic jams I see in my work commute are simply due to people with terrible driving habits. People lay on their brakes for no reason when there is nothing in front of them. People on cell phones wander into neighboring lanes. People don't use their cruise control and don't know how to maintain proper speed. People slow down ten miles below the speed limit or more to stare at a broken down car on the side of the road. Even more so if there's an accident - on the OTHER SIDE of the highway. Let's not even get into bridges. I drive over the Tacoma Narrows bridge every day. Even before construction of the new bridge began, people with fear of heights will freak out slow down far below the speed limit. Now that there's a bridge under construction on the other side, everybody slows down to stare at the cranes, causing a five mile backup almost every day during what used to be a smooth commute.For the most part, stupid people cause traffic jams, even when the highway infrastructure is otherwise well designed and efficient. Adding tolls will never solve this problem, it will make it even worse.
This makes a lot of sense, but I certainly understand privacy concerns and generally bristling at the already high cost of getting around. Whether this gets tied to people and bank accounts or not, this could and should be used to put together dead accurate real time traffic information.I really liked the phased commuting during Atlanta Olympics post. Employers have the power to make this a reality in a way that most employees do not (though I try to do it marginally myself, with a 7- 4 schedule rather than the typical 8-5 or 9-6).Last but certainly not least among traffic solutions is carpooling.Before you roll your eyes, consider this: Unless the lot at work is in a dicey neighborhood, every member of the carpool can drive in separately Monday, and drive home separately Friday, be able to take the carpool if they're leaving normal time, and have the flexibility to take their car come if they can't make the appointed time. That, combined with how easy cell phones make it to get in touch with whoever is driving that day means there's really no excuse not to carpool (unless the carpool-er is a member of a one-car household). This isn't perfect, esp. Monday morning and Friday evening, but it makes carpooling much more feasible for most people.
doctechnical"At least you'd have the option of optimizing your driving habits according to your pocketbook/willingness to play instead of being forced to pay "up front"."I don't really have a choice since my boss tells me when I have to be at work. Since rush hour is caused by everyone coming and going to work at the same time most of us have no choice in the matter. Plus how would it effect someone like me who actually drives against the rush hour maddest so I don’t have to put up with it.
This "increase tolls as a deterrent" idea is a sham, a crock, and an offense to taxpayers. By the time you find out that tolls are higher, YOU'RE AT THE TOLL BOOTH.Why, WHY does this simple fact never get pounded into the skulls of the morons proposing this stuff by the media and the public?
Not to speak for Argoff, but it sounds like he's speaking of a time before the national highway system. There were thousands of miles of private highways before the government took over which was before WWII. Today, the government is finding out that they can't manage the systems and are selling government roads to private companies. There are also examples of 100% private roads with tiered pricing.<a class="user" href="http://www.91expresslanes.com">http://www.91expresslanes.com</a>The idea of nationalized roads was also used for the railroads and the best railroad of the day was the Great Northern. It was built cheaper and better than the subsidized ones and all of the right of way was purchased, not taken through eminent domain.Regarding people won't be able to afford to go to work. If privatized, then the real cost of the road will be borne by the user, currently it is taken in tax dollars and use taxes so we get the congestion we have today. It also creates a moral hazard by influencing more use since it's perceived as free. Privatizing the road wiould allow for fewer taxes taken from the road users, but would increase the amount paid in usage fees. Would the price of the road use increase on net? Can't say, but since government wastes 50-70% of all money in bureaucracy, it would seem the private route would be less expensive. If these poverty stricken workers still could not afford to get to work they would still have options; they could car-pool, they could live closer to work, or they could take public transportation. There are also van sharing systems and, oh noes, unregulated cabs that currently provide this service to some.
RFID would help monitor traffic for research purposes, yes. But think about what it could really be used for. Say your driving on the freeway and you pass an RFID sensor and it records the time at witch it sensed your vehicle. Later down the highway another RFID sensor senses your vehicle again. It compares the time from the first scan to the second and determines the average speed you were going. If the average is above the allowable speeds the government would send you a ticket in the mail. Now that would suck.
itsr00kAug 29, 2006
It seems obvious to me that this idea will not improve traffic congestion in the least. Automatic tolling by gps location will run up a bill while people forget, until the end of the month when their statement comes in. OR, people will still be driving the same routes because they have somewhere in that area to get to, like work. The only difference, is that now theyre being charged for it on a rolling basis. 20 cents a mile? That would certainly add stress to my day. Enjoy road rage anyone? This will not solve problems, just generate more revenue, begrudgingly.Smart, CLEAN public transportation would make a bigger difference. Implement a more extended star of train stations to suburbia, allow patrons who regularly commute and purchase tickets to use free parking, and observe as more people (hopefully) take advantage of this transportation. No, its not 100% effective, but its a much better step in the right direction.
mancatAug 29, 2006
Most of the traffic jams I see in my work commute are simply due to people with terrible driving habits. People lay on their brakes for no reason when there is nothing in front of them. People on cell phones wander into neighboring lanes. People don't use their cruise control and don't know how to maintain proper speed. People slow down ten miles below the speed limit or more to stare at a broken down car on the side of the road. Even more so if there's an accident - on the OTHER SIDE of the highway. Let's not even get into bridges. I drive over the Tacoma Narrows bridge every day. Even before construction of the new bridge began, people with fear of heights will freak out slow down far below the speed limit. Now that there's a bridge under construction on the other side, everybody slows down to stare at the cranes, causing a five mile backup almost every day during what used to be a smooth commute.For the most part, stupid people cause traffic jams, even when the highway infrastructure is otherwise well designed and efficient. Adding tolls will never solve this problem, it will make it even worse.
byogmanAug 29, 2006
This makes a lot of sense, but I certainly understand privacy concerns and generally bristling at the already high cost of getting around. Whether this gets tied to people and bank accounts or not, this could and should be used to put together dead accurate real time traffic information.I really liked the phased commuting during Atlanta Olympics post. Employers have the power to make this a reality in a way that most employees do not (though I try to do it marginally myself, with a 7- 4 schedule rather than the typical 8-5 or 9-6).Last but certainly not least among traffic solutions is carpooling.Before you roll your eyes, consider this: Unless the lot at work is in a dicey neighborhood, every member of the carpool can drive in separately Monday, and drive home separately Friday, be able to take the carpool if they're leaving normal time, and have the flexibility to take their car come if they can't make the appointed time. That, combined with how easy cell phones make it to get in touch with whoever is driving that day means there's really no excuse not to carpool (unless the carpool-er is a member of a one-car household). This isn't perfect, esp. Monday morning and Friday evening, but it makes carpooling much more feasible for most people.
jetfireAug 29, 2006
doctechnical"At least you'd have the option of optimizing your driving habits according to your pocketbook/willingness to play instead of being forced to pay "up front"."I don't really have a choice since my boss tells me when I have to be at work. Since rush hour is caused by everyone coming and going to work at the same time most of us have no choice in the matter. Plus how would it effect someone like me who actually drives against the rush hour maddest so I don’t have to put up with it.
frogpeltAug 29, 2006
I'd rather have traffic jams.
simpleprimateAug 29, 2006
If something like this gets implemented it's just one step closer to a total surveillance society...Not to sound paranoid.
palmerAug 29, 2006
This "increase tolls as a deterrent" idea is a sham, a crock, and an offense to taxpayers. By the time you find out that tolls are higher, YOU'RE AT THE TOLL BOOTH.Why, WHY does this simple fact never get pounded into the skulls of the morons proposing this stuff by the media and the public?
tb65Aug 30, 2006
Not to speak for Argoff, but it sounds like he's speaking of a time before the national highway system. There were thousands of miles of private highways before the government took over which was before WWII. Today, the government is finding out that they can't manage the systems and are selling government roads to private companies. There are also examples of 100% private roads with tiered pricing.<a class="user" href="http://www.91expresslanes.com">http://www.91expresslanes.com</a>The idea of nationalized roads was also used for the railroads and the best railroad of the day was the Great Northern. It was built cheaper and better than the subsidized ones and all of the right of way was purchased, not taken through eminent domain.Regarding people won't be able to afford to go to work. If privatized, then the real cost of the road will be borne by the user, currently it is taken in tax dollars and use taxes so we get the congestion we have today. It also creates a moral hazard by influencing more use since it's perceived as free. Privatizing the road wiould allow for fewer taxes taken from the road users, but would increase the amount paid in usage fees. Would the price of the road use increase on net? Can't say, but since government wastes 50-70% of all money in bureaucracy, it would seem the private route would be less expensive. If these poverty stricken workers still could not afford to get to work they would still have options; they could car-pool, they could live closer to work, or they could take public transportation. There are also van sharing systems and, oh noes, unregulated cabs that currently provide this service to some.
enderwiggensSep 22, 2006
RFID would help monitor traffic for research purposes, yes. But think about what it could really be used for. Say your driving on the freeway and you pass an RFID sensor and it records the time at witch it sensed your vehicle. Later down the highway another RFID sensor senses your vehicle again. It compares the time from the first scan to the second and determines the average speed you were going. If the average is above the allowable speeds the government would send you a ticket in the mail. Now that would suck.