emonk.debianuruguay.org — C++ is a horrible language. It?s made more horrible by the fact that a lotof substandard programmers use it, to the point where it?s much mucheasier to generate total and utter crap with it. Quite frankly, even ifthe choice of C were to do *nothing* but keep the C++ programmers out,that in itself would be a huge reason to use C.
Sep 21, 2007 View in Crawl 4
meneerrSep 22, 2007
Different languages suit different purposes. But certian languages are simply superseeded.C++ has all the downsides of C, combined with the performance penaly of modern programming languages. It lacks a real use-case. ASM also has no real usecase anymore. No human is capable of writing faster ASM than a generic C compiler. It's misplaced arrogance. There is zero ASM in for example the Unreal Engine or the Quake engine. Prolog and LISP have no real use case anymore either btw. Rather they are superseeded by languages like Haskell (where prolog style statements are just a special sort of monad) and CSP languages. This does not mean that LISP, C++, etc. werent' important languages when they were developped. They were very important. Changed how we look at languages. Then we did it right.. and now we don't need them anymore.If only somebody would explain that army of programmers still using yesterdays' tools.
smek2Sep 22, 2007
And i hate Linus Torvalds. Seriously, he is becoming really annoying as of lately. Every seen the source code of a complex application written in C? THAT's what i call a "horrible mess". I suggest him to see a lection of Bjarne Stroustrup, maybe Bjarne can make him understand that C++ is, in the right hands, a very good programming language. Funny enough, Linus criticized the GNOME development team and called them idiots too, then suggested everyone should use KDE. Last time i checked, KDE is based on C++.
lord2800Sep 24, 2007
Funny, I see that problem as being more related to unrealistic design strategies than to OOP. And guess what? That problem exists in C as well.Also, I know Haskell (not well enough, but we all have to make sacrifices for money...), and while I agree that it lends itself to correctness, I would say it's considerably harder to design usable/consumable software in it.
bradmwSep 24, 2007
How's that promotion coming along?
bradmwSep 24, 2007
I've written faster versions of every STL algorithm in C without tooling assembly.
jbtecSep 27, 2007
No doubt written after some traumatizing experience with C++, lets correct a few points…1) Alot of substandard programmers use many languages, including C, java, ADA, C#, etc (not just C++). People think if they can program, they are qualified to design software.2) C is only choice FOR AN OPERATING SYSTEM. In many other cases, C++ works better.3) Design should NOT be language specific. Crappy software designs are crappy in any language.4) Boost isn’t part of C++, just built with it… and I’ve used the SL on many different platforms…5) ‘inefficient abstracted programming models’?? sounds like C++ ignorance…6) In other words, work with people who can master C++ (it’s a harder language) or stick with the simpler C language…Happy Coding.
povrazorSep 28, 2007
"YOU are full of bulls**t."Brilliant.
balazsbelaDec 31, 2007
Of course he hates C++, he is working on a kernel.No one in his right mind would write a kernel in C++, he is into performance and speed. C++ is for desktop applications, there performance doesn't matter so much as in something so low-level as a kernel.
balazsbelaJan 1, 2008
He doesn't have an OS, he has a kernel.Even that kernel was done mostly of other people, nowadays he just selects patches and tests/applies them.
pierregauAug 25, 2009
Some have asked for a real-life project written in C and C++.TrustLeap G-WAN is a Web Application Server which is faster (in user-mode) than IIS 7.0 (in the kernel). G-WAN ANSI C89 ('edit & play') scripts are 5x faster than ASP.Net C#.G-WAN is up to 38x faster than Apache.G-WAN is up to 25x faster than Nginx.G-WAN was started in C++ and then converted to C because of the '++' overhead. The gain was not only in footprint (currently 106 KB), but also in performances (~180%).If you want to know what makes C++ so bad, just try virtual inheritance and virtual functions, and then compare the machine code générated by the C++ compiler with a clean C implementation of the same features (the C++ code is twice larger -and slower).Conclusion: if you are targeting performances then you can use C++ as long as you write C code compiled with a C++ compiler.In my humble opinion, Linus is a programmer that make systems work, and Bjarne is a programmer that uses the systems created by programmers like Linus.There should be no surprise that system users are less technically inclined than system engineers.
pierregauAug 25, 2009
Some have asked for a real-life project written in C and C++.TrustLeap G-WAN is a Web Application Server which is faster (in user-mode) than IIS 7.0 (in the kernel). G-WAN ANSI C89 ('edit & play') scripts are 5x faster than ASP.Net C#.G-WAN is up to 38x faster than Apache.G-WAN is up to 25x faster than Nginx.G-WAN was started in C++ and then converted to C because of the '++' overhead. The gain was not only in footprint (currently 106 KB), but also in performances (~180%).If you want to know what makes C++ so bad, just try virtual inheritance and virtual functions, and then compare the machine code générated by the C++ compiler with a clean C implementation of the same features (the C++ code is twice larger -and slower).Conclusion: if you are targeting performances then you can use C++ as long as you write C code compiled with a C++ compiler.In my humble opinion, Linus is a programmer that make systems work, and Bjarne is a programmer that uses the systems created by programmers like Linus.There should be no surprise that system users are less technically inclined than system engineers.