msnbc.msn.com— For Israel, the goal is to eliminate Hezbollah as a security threat or altogether. For the United States, the goal is to strangle the axis of Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria and Iran.
Jul 16, 2006View in Crawl 4
"So the seven Canadians (including four small children) that were killed by Israel must have been terrorists as well ? Don't much care for my countrymen being killed just because "they were in the way"You are applying the same generalization I was trying to explain. Secondly, your countryman knowingly walked into a firefight. Maybe they were not "at war" when they got there or moved there, but these 2 'states' have been fighting for the same piece of rock for over 3,000 years and with VERY little 'peace' in between. I am not saying they 'deserved' to die, but they certainly put themselves in harms way no matter how tranquil it may have seemed at the time. If they were doing volunteer work there - kudos! But again, that is a risk that they knowingly took. My point was merely to point out that although civilians lives are lost at the expense of war that the terrorists intentionally try to blend in and look like civilians.I have lost 3 family members in the Middle East 1 in the service and 2 to terrorists (presumed both kidnapped while doing volunteer work). More then most, I understand the strife in the region but at the same time these people doing what they chose to do and knew full well the risks involved. I can not imagine anyone going there not realizing that war can and WILL break out at anytime.
Depends, are they buying alot of fertilizer? Seriously, if I were to say that all muslims are fanatics and want to kill us I would also have to say all Christians are fanatics and want to kill everyone else. You are right though, religon can not be violent (we call those cults). They can and do however give the notion that violence is acceptable IF . Just enough of a notion that fanatics of any religon can interpret violence and war as a vialble (if not the only) way to promote that religons given 'glory'.I found your post ironic considering you were making the same generalization that you were referencing. I never said that the people were violent, simply that the Quran (as with the Bible, Tanakh, and pretty much any other historical religous reference) contained its fair share of violence (more so then the others).
I find it appalling that everything against Israel, not even necessarily pro-Palestinian is modded down.I think most of you are really unaware of the what the situation is like down there, and has been since 1948. The lives of Palestinians is not one driven by pure hate, but of a necessity to survive. Controlled water, controlled roads, demolished houses and strict totalitarian control. Divided and downpressed (nothing "up" in opression) they are agitated by the in-your-face actions of Israel. Remember, Israel is *not* defending itself, it is fighting on occupied land. When you're attacking, it simply isn't defense. Palestine is not an innocent party, its soldiers and citizens use violence as well. It's war, not genocide. Or..?"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist."-- Golda Meir (PM of Israel 1969 - 1974), statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969."This country exists as the fulfillment of a promise made by God Himself. It would be ridiculous to ask it to account for its legitimacy."-- Golda Meir, Le Monde, 15 October 1971"[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."-- Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25, 1982."(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."-- Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988 "The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more"....-- Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time - August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000"If we thought that instead of 200 Palestinian fatalities, 2,000 dead would put an end to the fighting at a stroke, we would use much more force...."-- Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, quoted in Associated Press, November 16, 2000. "Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998. <a class="user" href="http://digg.com/politics/What_Israeli_Prime_Ministers_Think_of_Palestinians">http://digg.com/politics/What_Israeli_Prime_Ministers_Think_of_Palestinians</a>
Of causeThere is a desperate need here to see Israel survive. Israel is in an impossible situation and ANY change in public opinion in the West may tip the balance. As I say elsewhere, I believe Israel can't be saved no matter what - it's just a question of time - and this is NOT something I am wishing for it is simply the way I see it. The whole situation in ME is terrible and very very sad. Lots of losers no winners
In all fairness, Israel gets about 3 billion per year of US military aid, most of which is meant to be used to buy AMERICAN defense equipment. These types of aid deals, where a country must buy goods from the country giving it aid are common and the same can be said the for deal that Egypt has with the US as well. So, in reality, that 3 billion is mostly paying got R+D jobs at Lockheed, Boeing or Raytheon. Just food for thought.
metmanJul 17, 2006
"So the seven Canadians (including four small children) that were killed by Israel must have been terrorists as well ? Don't much care for my countrymen being killed just because "they were in the way"You are applying the same generalization I was trying to explain. Secondly, your countryman knowingly walked into a firefight. Maybe they were not "at war" when they got there or moved there, but these 2 'states' have been fighting for the same piece of rock for over 3,000 years and with VERY little 'peace' in between. I am not saying they 'deserved' to die, but they certainly put themselves in harms way no matter how tranquil it may have seemed at the time. If they were doing volunteer work there - kudos! But again, that is a risk that they knowingly took. My point was merely to point out that although civilians lives are lost at the expense of war that the terrorists intentionally try to blend in and look like civilians.I have lost 3 family members in the Middle East 1 in the service and 2 to terrorists (presumed both kidnapped while doing volunteer work). More then most, I understand the strife in the region but at the same time these people doing what they chose to do and knew full well the risks involved. I can not imagine anyone going there not realizing that war can and WILL break out at anytime.
metmanJul 17, 2006
Depends, are they buying alot of fertilizer? Seriously, if I were to say that all muslims are fanatics and want to kill us I would also have to say all Christians are fanatics and want to kill everyone else. You are right though, religon can not be violent (we call those cults). They can and do however give the notion that violence is acceptable IF . Just enough of a notion that fanatics of any religon can interpret violence and war as a vialble (if not the only) way to promote that religons given 'glory'.I found your post ironic considering you were making the same generalization that you were referencing. I never said that the people were violent, simply that the Quran (as with the Bible, Tanakh, and pretty much any other historical religous reference) contained its fair share of violence (more so then the others).
chosenone_Jul 17, 2006
I find it appalling that everything against Israel, not even necessarily pro-Palestinian is modded down.I think most of you are really unaware of the what the situation is like down there, and has been since 1948. The lives of Palestinians is not one driven by pure hate, but of a necessity to survive. Controlled water, controlled roads, demolished houses and strict totalitarian control. Divided and downpressed (nothing "up" in opression) they are agitated by the in-your-face actions of Israel. Remember, Israel is *not* defending itself, it is fighting on occupied land. When you're attacking, it simply isn't defense. Palestine is not an innocent party, its soldiers and citizens use violence as well. It's war, not genocide. Or..?"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist."-- Golda Meir (PM of Israel 1969 - 1974), statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969."This country exists as the fulfillment of a promise made by God Himself. It would be ridiculous to ask it to account for its legitimacy."-- Golda Meir, Le Monde, 15 October 1971"[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."-- Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25, 1982."(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."-- Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988 "The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more"....-- Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time - August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000"If we thought that instead of 200 Palestinian fatalities, 2,000 dead would put an end to the fighting at a stroke, we would use much more force...."-- Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, quoted in Associated Press, November 16, 2000. "Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998. <a class="user" href="http://digg.com/politics/What_Israeli_Prime_Ministers_Think_of_Palestinians">http://digg.com/politics/What_Israeli_Prime_Ministers_Think_of_Palestinians</a>
jasmin888Jul 17, 2006
Of causeThere is a desperate need here to see Israel survive. Israel is in an impossible situation and ANY change in public opinion in the West may tip the balance. As I say elsewhere, I believe Israel can't be saved no matter what - it's just a question of time - and this is NOT something I am wishing for it is simply the way I see it. The whole situation in ME is terrible and very very sad. Lots of losers no winners
dfratzJul 18, 2006
In all fairness, Israel gets about 3 billion per year of US military aid, most of which is meant to be used to buy AMERICAN defense equipment. These types of aid deals, where a country must buy goods from the country giving it aid are common and the same can be said the for deal that Egypt has with the US as well. So, in reality, that 3 billion is mostly paying got R+D jobs at Lockheed, Boeing or Raytheon. Just food for thought.