This makes a lot of sense. I just got out of a temp job for a company. This was to handle the overflow calls from manila call center that IBM is setting up for human resources. The job was way too depressing and I got tired at being yelled at because people had problems with their paychecks or benefits issues. All we could do is transfer those calls and some others to the call center to manila. They would be pissed too because this was the 3rd or 4th time they were transfered. I have no idea how this outsourcing saves money other than to screw the American worker out of a job. We are doomed.
I agree - I'm all for people everywhere getting a fair crack of the whip, but that's not what this involves.I've had to rip out and replace some pretty damned gutwrenching code from aggressively priced offshore shops - and when I say gutwrenching, I mean completely worthless except as some kind of Escher-like artwork.I think it's unscrupulous of companies to use excessive globalisation of their professional programming workforce to serve the domestic market, but at the same time you don't like to piss and moan if someone else beats you by being cheaper - goes against my capitalist grain anyway.
picture wealthy, walled enclaves around the US inhabited by the super-wealthy who engineered this con -- their customers will be each other. the rest of the US will have charter (crap) schools, crap jobs, inability to buy unaffordable homes, and watch their oil prices rise until they work for the oil companies half of the year. why do you think the cops are becoming military forces? why the faraday cannon, lasers, tasers, microwave burners, deafening cannon? -- those weapons are gonna be used on the schmucks outside the walled towns trying to protest. protestors are already assumed to be terrorists. imagine what happens when people figure out just how much they've lost to WalMart and Halliburton. those armored cops are going to be very busy putting down all those "terrorists".
We don't have mounting debt because we are "stupid". We are in debt because homes are over a half million dollars, rent costs are exploding, food prices are exploding, taxes will skyrocket after the Bush Hangover kicks in, we've spent a trillion on a war, our wages are shrinking in real terms while the dollar is collapsing. How the hell do you not go into debt?! I don't have a trust fund, I'm not 19, and I'm barely breaking even. I can't imagine what the hell is happening to the real poor. No one cares, I guess, we only get news about millionaires read to us by millionaires. I'm tired of "poor" people being blamed for the housing collapse and the debt explosion. GREED did this. Corporations decided they owed nothing to their own country, and the wealthy bought up more and more real estate with their new wealth, jacking the prices beyond what a normal human can pay.
GUYS, IBM IS CUTTING OFF ON "CONTRACTORS" MAINLY AND NOT A LOT OF EMPLOYEES IN USA. THE "CONTRACTORS" ARE OBVIOUSLY "VERY COSTLY" FOR THE COMPANY. LOT OF WORK WHICH IS DONE CURRENTLY BY IBM CONTRACTORS (NOT EMPLOYEES)CAN BE DONE AT OFFSHORE BY IBM EMPLOYEES IN INDIA AND CHINA. SO THE NEWS IS NOT CORRECT. DO NOT THINK THEY ARE CUTTING 100K EMPLOYEES.......
well, because "resources are scare," jobs can be used to allocate resources. obviously, if resources were abundant, then "high paying jobs for all" would be the standard.as far as I can tell, unless there's a political movement in the US, the corporations will use their control over jobs to effectively ration goods and services. and, by getting rid of employees who make a lot of money (i.e. the older ones), they can hire younger ones who will spend every dollar they make... the problem with older workers is that they save their money!in Latin America, the Pope was getting upset over liberation theology, the movement that tried to take social justice to the next level so even the Catholic Church is using its power, seemingly, to "keep the plantation" in check. folks like Bush haven't been wasting their money on "faith based initiatives" for nothing! the pharaisees are back in the temple, beware!
We are directed to attend an "all hands" meeting tonight (730pm EDT) in Essex Junction, Vermont. Current workforce about 5,700, rumored to be losing between 800 and 1,300 in this layoff. Coincidence? Perhaps. I find it interesting that this comes as we (the plant, the state) are "celebrating" the 50th anniversary of Big Blue locating in Vermont (realistically because Tom Watson liked to ski). All sorts of high praise for what IBM has brought to the state and the community. We'll see what will be said if it is all true.What is generally agreed upon is that the LTS (Long Term Supplemental a/k/a Temporary) folks in Manufacturing will be pretty much immune, witness the huge banners still up at the entrances advertising IMMEDIATE OPENINGS! Word here is that it will be 25% of our engineers and at least four equipment maintenance people per shift.
I believe there will be excellent opportunity in this space in 6-12 months for the quick, highly skilled service companies that decide to stay stateside. There is some excellent talent offshore to be sure, but overall the skill and experience level are insufficient for serving the needs of complex U.S. corporations today. These corporations will soon determine there is a value proposition to get their support in these focused local companies. Lots of excellent talent is being made available to the local markets. It is just sad for the people to have to struggle through the changes from the giants like IBM to the new excellent companies of the next generation.
Gee, I don't understand why IBM has any trouble turning a profit. when I was on the server team, I watched them use the same windows license over and over again. Seems like you could save alot of money that way.
Word is getting out that the economy is going bad by choice because Barack Obama was elected. People were laid off because they voted Democrat, not for economic reasons, but just punishment because the rich business owners didn't get John McCain in the White House and a safe majority of Republicans in Congress. How will they take it?
kingygkMay 5, 2007
This makes a lot of sense. I just got out of a temp job for a company. This was to handle the overflow calls from manila call center that IBM is setting up for human resources. The job was way too depressing and I got tired at being yelled at because people had problems with their paychecks or benefits issues. All we could do is transfer those calls and some others to the call center to manila. They would be pissed too because this was the 3rd or 4th time they were transfered. I have no idea how this outsourcing saves money other than to screw the American worker out of a job. We are doomed.
blackadderiiiMay 5, 2007
I agree - I'm all for people everywhere getting a fair crack of the whip, but that's not what this involves.I've had to rip out and replace some pretty damned gutwrenching code from aggressively priced offshore shops - and when I say gutwrenching, I mean completely worthless except as some kind of Escher-like artwork.I think it's unscrupulous of companies to use excessive globalisation of their professional programming workforce to serve the domestic market, but at the same time you don't like to piss and moan if someone else beats you by being cheaper - goes against my capitalist grain anyway.
catbellerMay 6, 2007
picture wealthy, walled enclaves around the US inhabited by the super-wealthy who engineered this con -- their customers will be each other. the rest of the US will have charter (crap) schools, crap jobs, inability to buy unaffordable homes, and watch their oil prices rise until they work for the oil companies half of the year. why do you think the cops are becoming military forces? why the faraday cannon, lasers, tasers, microwave burners, deafening cannon? -- those weapons are gonna be used on the schmucks outside the walled towns trying to protest. protestors are already assumed to be terrorists. imagine what happens when people figure out just how much they've lost to WalMart and Halliburton. those armored cops are going to be very busy putting down all those "terrorists".
catbellerMay 6, 2007
We don't have mounting debt because we are "stupid". We are in debt because homes are over a half million dollars, rent costs are exploding, food prices are exploding, taxes will skyrocket after the Bush Hangover kicks in, we've spent a trillion on a war, our wages are shrinking in real terms while the dollar is collapsing. How the hell do you not go into debt?! I don't have a trust fund, I'm not 19, and I'm barely breaking even. I can't imagine what the hell is happening to the real poor. No one cares, I guess, we only get news about millionaires read to us by millionaires. I'm tired of "poor" people being blamed for the housing collapse and the debt explosion. GREED did this. Corporations decided they owed nothing to their own country, and the wealthy bought up more and more real estate with their new wealth, jacking the prices beyond what a normal human can pay.
peter1975May 12, 2007
GUYS, IBM IS CUTTING OFF ON "CONTRACTORS" MAINLY AND NOT A LOT OF EMPLOYEES IN USA. THE "CONTRACTORS" ARE OBVIOUSLY "VERY COSTLY" FOR THE COMPANY. LOT OF WORK WHICH IS DONE CURRENTLY BY IBM CONTRACTORS (NOT EMPLOYEES)CAN BE DONE AT OFFSHORE BY IBM EMPLOYEES IN INDIA AND CHINA. SO THE NEWS IS NOT CORRECT. DO NOT THINK THEY ARE CUTTING 100K EMPLOYEES.......
mrmxMay 14, 2007
well, because "resources are scare," jobs can be used to allocate resources. obviously, if resources were abundant, then "high paying jobs for all" would be the standard.as far as I can tell, unless there's a political movement in the US, the corporations will use their control over jobs to effectively ration goods and services. and, by getting rid of employees who make a lot of money (i.e. the older ones), they can hire younger ones who will spend every dollar they make... the problem with older workers is that they save their money!in Latin America, the Pope was getting upset over liberation theology, the movement that tried to take social justice to the next level so even the Catholic Church is using its power, seemingly, to "keep the plantation" in check. folks like Bush haven't been wasting their money on "faith based initiatives" for nothing! the pharaisees are back in the temple, beware!
Closed AccountMay 15, 2007
We are directed to attend an "all hands" meeting tonight (730pm EDT) in Essex Junction, Vermont. Current workforce about 5,700, rumored to be losing between 800 and 1,300 in this layoff. Coincidence? Perhaps. I find it interesting that this comes as we (the plant, the state) are "celebrating" the 50th anniversary of Big Blue locating in Vermont (realistically because Tom Watson liked to ski). All sorts of high praise for what IBM has brought to the state and the community. We'll see what will be said if it is all true.What is generally agreed upon is that the LTS (Long Term Supplemental a/k/a Temporary) folks in Manufacturing will be pretty much immune, witness the huge banners still up at the entrances advertising IMMEDIATE OPENINGS! Word here is that it will be 25% of our engineers and at least four equipment maintenance people per shift.
wjorthMay 26, 2007
I believe there will be excellent opportunity in this space in 6-12 months for the quick, highly skilled service companies that decide to stay stateside. There is some excellent talent offshore to be sure, but overall the skill and experience level are insufficient for serving the needs of complex U.S. corporations today. These corporations will soon determine there is a value proposition to get their support in these focused local companies. Lots of excellent talent is being made available to the local markets. It is just sad for the people to have to struggle through the changes from the giants like IBM to the new excellent companies of the next generation.
qaz12Aug 11, 2007
Gee, I don't understand why IBM has any trouble turning a profit. when I was on the server team, I watched them use the same windows license over and over again. Seems like you could save alot of money that way.
spfldnetMar 7, 2009
Word is getting out that the economy is going bad by choice because Barack Obama was elected. People were laid off because they voted Democrat, not for economic reasons, but just punishment because the rich business owners didn't get John McCain in the White House and a safe majority of Republicans in Congress. How will they take it?