guardian.co.uk— As recriminations fly post-Copenhagen, climate change expert Mark Lynas offers a fly-on-the-wall account of how talks failed, everyone blames Obama and the West but China wrecked the deal.
Dec 22, 2009View in Crawl 4
This is a great piece,Economics development is the last straw Chinese Communist Party holds onto for its life. They are sacrifice people's lives, freedom and just most of the things the west takes for granted for economics development.Expect Chinese to care about environment? Not until they lose a city to the flood.
Good thing you were privileged enough to go to college then. Which, by the way, is not the reality for a lot of people. So there genuinely are a lot of people who are stuck doing s**tty factory jobs. What would you propose they do? Work really, really hard so maybe they put out another 10-15% productivity? When Chinese labour is 90%+ cheaper, that makes absolutely no difference in whether he's going to keep his job or not.
So what? How is it the US's fault that China decided to take them up on their manufactring deals. This is like paying your neighbour to take your rubbish and then they take it and dump it on the poor houses down the road.Besides, if you read the article you would know that China has A LOT to gain from renewable energy - more than any other large country, they damn near will have a monomoly on it so your argument doesn't even make sense.It doesn't matter how it happened the fact is China is very powerful, THEY are the ones that have ruined this deal. Who cares who started what, what matters now is that China have completley gutted this deal, and clearly shown their intentions about destroying the world's poorer contries.China is no longer a poor 'developing' contry, and should no longer be treated as such.
The Revolutionary War in the US, French Revolution, etc. It's pretty common in history for a country where there is a budding capitalist system and emerging acceptance of civil liberties to be under a repressive regime that acts to slow the advancement of one or the other. In China, you have a growing economy but poor recognition of civil liberties, which is a good recipe for revolt.
fact: temperature rises before co2 risesfact: one biofuel filled hummer can feed one person for a whole yearfact: global warming was experienced by all planets in the solar system including the ones without SUVSfact: the earth experienced the lowest hurricane activity recorded in fall of 2009fact:cru scientists have all distorted and manipulated the 'global warming' temperatures and data to hide the decline----the earth has been cooling for the past 7-9 yearsfact: 31,072 scientists (including over 9,000 Ph.D.s) have signed a strong petition REJECTING the AGW religionNO SUCH THING AS MAN MADE GLOBAL WARMING---COPENHAGEN WAS A WASTE OF TIME chavez at the summit " if global warming was a bank--the west would've saved it already"<a class="user" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp90gNCDaNw" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp90gNCDaNw</a>Down with co2 tax..world governancelong live humanity--recycle reduce reuse compost ..save the trees
What do you mean "Stop buying Chinese made products" I rarely do, only when its the only option, I have almost nothing made in china - that I know of. You guys come in after the horse has bolted and want to stand around yelling. You've been borrowing China's money to buy their goods for years and now you finally wake up?China only did what the US has been doing to other countries for years. It is all a game and this time, china won. This is so funny! You guys lose one time and you think its the end of the world and you want to go bomb everyone back to the stoneage. Get real!Now you want to congratulate the US for doing something at the last minute? They should have known pretty much what was going to happen before they even went to Copenhagen. International relations is not something you go to and then work out who your friends and opposition are and what you're going to do. If you don't have most of it mapped out before you get there, you are going to lose. If you don't then you end up with egg on your face. For an example of that, just look back at the Olympic bid debacle.
phlyblntDec 23, 2009
Yes, please read this, please, freaking tag it with Ron Paul, so people will pay attention.
turboweiDec 24, 2009
This is a great piece,Economics development is the last straw Chinese Communist Party holds onto for its life. They are sacrifice people's lives, freedom and just most of the things the west takes for granted for economics development.Expect Chinese to care about environment? Not until they lose a city to the flood.
gasplaDec 25, 2009
Good thing you were privileged enough to go to college then. Which, by the way, is not the reality for a lot of people. So there genuinely are a lot of people who are stuck doing s**tty factory jobs. What would you propose they do? Work really, really hard so maybe they put out another 10-15% productivity? When Chinese labour is 90%+ cheaper, that makes absolutely no difference in whether he's going to keep his job or not.
skepticaDec 26, 2009
The U.S. wrecked the Tokyo talks, now China wrecked the Copenhagen talks.Copycat.
michaelwhDec 28, 2009
So what? How is it the US's fault that China decided to take them up on their manufactring deals. This is like paying your neighbour to take your rubbish and then they take it and dump it on the poor houses down the road.Besides, if you read the article you would know that China has A LOT to gain from renewable energy - more than any other large country, they damn near will have a monomoly on it so your argument doesn't even make sense.It doesn't matter how it happened the fact is China is very powerful, THEY are the ones that have ruined this deal. Who cares who started what, what matters now is that China have completley gutted this deal, and clearly shown their intentions about destroying the world's poorer contries.China is no longer a poor 'developing' contry, and should no longer be treated as such.
nichowaJan 4, 2010
The Revolutionary War in the US, French Revolution, etc. It's pretty common in history for a country where there is a budding capitalist system and emerging acceptance of civil liberties to be under a repressive regime that acts to slow the advancement of one or the other. In China, you have a growing economy but poor recognition of civil liberties, which is a good recipe for revolt.
swcadizJan 6, 2010
fact: temperature rises before co2 risesfact: one biofuel filled hummer can feed one person for a whole yearfact: global warming was experienced by all planets in the solar system including the ones without SUVSfact: the earth experienced the lowest hurricane activity recorded in fall of 2009fact:cru scientists have all distorted and manipulated the 'global warming' temperatures and data to hide the decline----the earth has been cooling for the past 7-9 yearsfact: 31,072 scientists (including over 9,000 Ph.D.s) have signed a strong petition REJECTING the AGW religionNO SUCH THING AS MAN MADE GLOBAL WARMING---COPENHAGEN WAS A WASTE OF TIME chavez at the summit " if global warming was a bank--the west would've saved it already"<a class="user" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp90gNCDaNw" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp90gNCDaNw</a>Down with co2 tax..world governancelong live humanity--recycle reduce reuse compost ..save the trees
burgerkinghornJan 7, 2010
But the problem is convincing China, as well as the rest of the world, that we all have a lot at stake with the climate problems.
loopbizJan 10, 2010
What do you mean "Stop buying Chinese made products" I rarely do, only when its the only option, I have almost nothing made in china - that I know of. You guys come in after the horse has bolted and want to stand around yelling. You've been borrowing China's money to buy their goods for years and now you finally wake up?China only did what the US has been doing to other countries for years. It is all a game and this time, china won. This is so funny! You guys lose one time and you think its the end of the world and you want to go bomb everyone back to the stoneage. Get real!Now you want to congratulate the US for doing something at the last minute? They should have known pretty much what was going to happen before they even went to Copenhagen. International relations is not something you go to and then work out who your friends and opposition are and what you're going to do. If you don't have most of it mapped out before you get there, you are going to lose. If you don't then you end up with egg on your face. For an example of that, just look back at the Olympic bid debacle.
sandhogJan 11, 2010
So how does that make you feel?
orchardnorthMay 4, 2010
Hope the Chinese will be more constructive in future <a class="user" href="http://www.orchardnorth.co.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.orchardnorth.co.uk</a>