graphics8.nytimes.com— Records show that Giuliani spent 29 hours there, far less time than that of recovery workers, who often worked consecutive 12-hour days.
Aug 17, 2007View in Crawl 4
He was hated before 9/11/01 and he is still hated to this day! PERIOD. He is his own worst enemy. Wait and see. We are only scraping the surface with this loudmouth loser.Don't believe me? Then ask his kids.
So let me get this straight. You are saying all the digg lefts are always talking about Rudi and his family and 9/11/01 and Mitt's family and his religion? huh?real issues. What real issues are they bringing up? Name one! Same ol s**t different assh**es all of them. Democrat's and Republicans all of em.
Sweet Jesus, you f**king idiots keep saying the same s**t over and over and over. shaelen, you have the patience of a saint in trying to point out it's not about who was there when or how long, it's about LYING about it and using it to whore your way into office.
Sorry for the book but people like Indygirl just blow my mind. Wow the ignorance is astonishing.The US Government was NOT founded on Christian beliefs.The Treaty of Tripoli - Authored by American diplomat Joel Barlow in 1796, the following treaty was sent to the floor of the Senate, June 7, 1797, where it was read aloud in its entirety and unanimously approved. John Adams, having seen the treaty, signed it and proudly proclaimed it to the Nation. Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.<a class="user" href="http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html">http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html</a>Founding Father's ThoughtsGeorge Washington - Every man, conducting himself as a good citizen, and being accountable to God alone for his religious opinions, ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience.-- George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia, May 1789, in Anson Phelps Stokes, Church and State in the United States, Vol 1. p. 495, quoted from Albert J Menendez and Edd Doerr, The Great Quotations on Religious Freedom"Sir, Washington was a Deist."-- The Reverend Doctor James Abercrombie, rector of the church Washington had attended with his wife, to The Reverend Bird Wilson, an Episcopal minister in Albany, New York, upon Wilson's having inquired of Abercrombie regarding Washington's religious beliefs, quoted from John E Remsberg, Six Historic Americans <a class="user" href="http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/washington.htm">http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/washington.htm</a> as well as Wikipedia but I'd rather not cite them.James Madison "What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not." - A Memorial and Remonstrance, 1785 "Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - A Memorial and Remonstrance, 1785 <a class="user" href="http://altreligion.about.com/library/texts/bl_foundersquotes.htm">http://altreligion.about.com/library/texts/bl_foundersquotes.htm</a>John Adams "As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" - Dec. 27, 1816 "I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!" - letter to Thomas Jefferson "What havoc has been made of books through every century of the Christian era? Where are fifty gospels, condemned as spurious by the bull of Pope Gelasius? Where are the forty wagon-loads of Hebrew manuscripts burned in France, by order of another pope, because suspected of heresy? Remember the 'index expurgatorius', the inquisition, the stake, the axe, the halter and the guillotine." - letter to John Taylor "The priesthood have, in all ancient nations, nearly monopolized learning. And ever since the Reformation, when or where has existed a Protestant or dissenting sect who would tolerate A FREE INQUIRY? The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooish brutality, is patiently endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with a dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof, and you will find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your eyes and hand, and fly into your face and eyes." - letter to John Taylor <a class="user" href="http://altreligion.about.com/library/texts/bl_foundersquotes.htm">http://altreligion.about.com/library/texts/bl_foundersquotes.htm</a>Thomas Jefferson "It is not to be understood that I am with him (Jesus Christ) in all his doctrines. I am a Materialist; he takes the side of Spiritualism; he preaches the efficacy of repentence toward forgiveness of sin; I require a counterpoise of good works to redeem it. Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others, again, of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being. I separate, therefore, the gold from the dross; restore him to the former, and leave the latter to the stupidity of some, the roguery of others of his disciples. Of this band of dupes and imposters, Paul was the great Coryphaeus, and the first corruptor of the doctrines of Jesus." - to W. Short, 1820"The truth is, that the greatest enemies of the doctrine of Jesus are those, calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them to the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come, when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." - to John Adams, Apr. 11, 1823<a class="user" href="http://altreligion.about.com/library/texts/bl_foundersquotes.htm">http://altreligion.about.com/library/texts/bl_foundersquotes.htm</a>Benjamin Franklin "I think vital religion has always suffered when orthodoxy is more regarded than virtue. The scriptures assure me that at the last day we shall not be examined on what we thought but what we did." - letter to his father, 1738 "I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite Father, expects or requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitely above it." - from Articles of Belief and Acts of Religion, 1728 "I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity." - Works, Vol. VII, p. 75 "If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both here (England) and in New England." - Benjamin Franklin
Fair enough. I don't know the original context of his comment, I still don't find it to be all that big a deal. He exaggerated the amount of time he's spent there, that much is clear. Where was this said? What point was he trying to make?Again, this is not coming from an apologist or a supporter, but someone who thinks that the discussion about whether or not someone is a good candidate should focus a little less on stuff like this and more on an actual discussion of the issues. I've softened my stance a bit here, @shaelen, but I still think that we're kind of missing the point here.
goddamnitAug 18, 2007
He was hated before 9/11/01 and he is still hated to this day! PERIOD. He is his own worst enemy. Wait and see. We are only scraping the surface with this loudmouth loser.Don't believe me? Then ask his kids.
goddamnitAug 18, 2007
So let me get this straight. You are saying all the digg lefts are always talking about Rudi and his family and 9/11/01 and Mitt's family and his religion? huh?real issues. What real issues are they bringing up? Name one! Same ol s**t different assh**es all of them. Democrat's and Republicans all of em.
sabachAug 18, 2007
Sweet Jesus, you f**king idiots keep saying the same s**t over and over and over. shaelen, you have the patience of a saint in trying to point out it's not about who was there when or how long, it's about LYING about it and using it to whore your way into office.
virtualballAug 18, 2007
Well in that case, I won't cut him some slack.
scornedpatriotAug 18, 2007
Sorry for the book but people like Indygirl just blow my mind. Wow the ignorance is astonishing.The US Government was NOT founded on Christian beliefs.The Treaty of Tripoli - Authored by American diplomat Joel Barlow in 1796, the following treaty was sent to the floor of the Senate, June 7, 1797, where it was read aloud in its entirety and unanimously approved. John Adams, having seen the treaty, signed it and proudly proclaimed it to the Nation. Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.<a class="user" href="http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html">http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html</a>Founding Father's ThoughtsGeorge Washington - Every man, conducting himself as a good citizen, and being accountable to God alone for his religious opinions, ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience.-- George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia, May 1789, in Anson Phelps Stokes, Church and State in the United States, Vol 1. p. 495, quoted from Albert J Menendez and Edd Doerr, The Great Quotations on Religious Freedom"Sir, Washington was a Deist."-- The Reverend Doctor James Abercrombie, rector of the church Washington had attended with his wife, to The Reverend Bird Wilson, an Episcopal minister in Albany, New York, upon Wilson's having inquired of Abercrombie regarding Washington's religious beliefs, quoted from John E Remsberg, Six Historic Americans <a class="user" href="http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/washington.htm">http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/washington.htm</a> as well as Wikipedia but I'd rather not cite them.James Madison "What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not." - A Memorial and Remonstrance, 1785 "Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - A Memorial and Remonstrance, 1785 <a class="user" href="http://altreligion.about.com/library/texts/bl_foundersquotes.htm">http://altreligion.about.com/library/texts/bl_foundersquotes.htm</a>John Adams "As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" - Dec. 27, 1816 "I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!" - letter to Thomas Jefferson "What havoc has been made of books through every century of the Christian era? Where are fifty gospels, condemned as spurious by the bull of Pope Gelasius? Where are the forty wagon-loads of Hebrew manuscripts burned in France, by order of another pope, because suspected of heresy? Remember the 'index expurgatorius', the inquisition, the stake, the axe, the halter and the guillotine." - letter to John Taylor "The priesthood have, in all ancient nations, nearly monopolized learning. And ever since the Reformation, when or where has existed a Protestant or dissenting sect who would tolerate A FREE INQUIRY? The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooish brutality, is patiently endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with a dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof, and you will find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your eyes and hand, and fly into your face and eyes." - letter to John Taylor <a class="user" href="http://altreligion.about.com/library/texts/bl_foundersquotes.htm">http://altreligion.about.com/library/texts/bl_foundersquotes.htm</a>Thomas Jefferson "It is not to be understood that I am with him (Jesus Christ) in all his doctrines. I am a Materialist; he takes the side of Spiritualism; he preaches the efficacy of repentence toward forgiveness of sin; I require a counterpoise of good works to redeem it. Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others, again, of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being. I separate, therefore, the gold from the dross; restore him to the former, and leave the latter to the stupidity of some, the roguery of others of his disciples. Of this band of dupes and imposters, Paul was the great Coryphaeus, and the first corruptor of the doctrines of Jesus." - to W. Short, 1820"The truth is, that the greatest enemies of the doctrine of Jesus are those, calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them to the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come, when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." - to John Adams, Apr. 11, 1823<a class="user" href="http://altreligion.about.com/library/texts/bl_foundersquotes.htm">http://altreligion.about.com/library/texts/bl_foundersquotes.htm</a>Benjamin Franklin "I think vital religion has always suffered when orthodoxy is more regarded than virtue. The scriptures assure me that at the last day we shall not be examined on what we thought but what we did." - letter to his father, 1738 "I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite Father, expects or requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitely above it." - from Articles of Belief and Acts of Religion, 1728 "I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity." - Works, Vol. VII, p. 75 "If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both here (England) and in New England." - Benjamin Franklin
ummagummas08Aug 19, 2007
Agreed.
brad77Aug 20, 2007
Fair enough. I don't know the original context of his comment, I still don't find it to be all that big a deal. He exaggerated the amount of time he's spent there, that much is clear. Where was this said? What point was he trying to make?Again, this is not coming from an apologist or a supporter, but someone who thinks that the discussion about whether or not someone is a good candidate should focus a little less on stuff like this and more on an actual discussion of the issues. I've softened my stance a bit here, @shaelen, but I still think that we're kind of missing the point here.