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@CurtHowlandThose statistics don't mean what you think they mean. Take the homeschool example. Even if it were true that an unspecified age range of homeschooled kids score 87% on unspecified standardized tests, that doesn't mean that a ghetto black boy whose parents don't give a crap about education, or a Mexican girl whose Mami isn't even literate in Spanish and wants her to help around the house instead of going to school are going to get a better education if they are homeschooled. Homeschooling by uneducated parents? How would that even work?In fact your statistics only underscore what I've been saying, that it's the parents who make the biggest difference in the child's education. My daughter scores in the 99th percentile, and she went to public school. But guess what, both her parents are highly educated and highly intelligent, and the public schools she went to were surrounded by highly paid professionals who made sure their public schools were first rate. Plus, she took all Pre-AP and AP classes.Most of the kids at her school were ghetto kids (that's their terminology) who benefited greatly from having those other parents keeping their school up to snuff, because their own parents sure wouldn't have known how to do it. And I'm not saying anything bad about them, just that they wouldn't know because they couldn't know, given their typical backgrounds.The parents at the other schools I mentioned didn't care or didn't know how to care, so they fared worse than my daughter's schools. But the teachers played the role of the caring parent, at least in caring about those children's education, so yes, those schools are at least better than nothing, and they are far, far better than homeschooling would be for those kids. I ask again, how are you going to have homeschooling when the parents barely have a 6th grade education?

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@mutatron"some whack conspiracy theory"There is no conspiracy. At least not in the sense of people sitting in dark rooms making plots. At some points there have been certain individuals that had a large influence in the direction of education, and those individuals headed things in the wrong direction. The fact that people followed doesn't make it a conspiracy. Individuals exerting a great influence is common in many fields. Nothing unusual there.Sometimes people even design things that do something that wasn't originally intended. Like the Internet. It was designed for researchers to communicate, not be the massive public use system that it is. That is what has happened in education. It is not necessary to say that what we have was the original goal to call it "designed". It is only necessary to show that each step created what we now have. Would you prefer "created" instead of "designed"? Did you read any of "The Underground History of American Education"? Try reading ten pages. See your reaction."How are privatized schools going to do better at teaching kids who don't care and whose parents don't care?"They couldn't. But what you're missing is that people start caring real quick when they have to write the check themselves. That's just natural human tendency. What direction is the incentive with the public school system? The direction is "don't care". That's how normal people respond. They say "it's their job". That's the *direction* of the incentive. Many people care in spite of it, it is their kids we're talking about. The incentive may be small, but it pushes parents in the wrong direction bit by bit. "I said myself that ghetto schools are merely "better than nothing", "Are they? How would you like to be coerced into sending your children to dangerous schools? Think about the connection between where these schools are and the neighborhood incomes. It's the poor that get stuck with these schools. Yet isn't that the very argument in favor of public schools? What about the poor? How will they afford schools for their children?Public schools are funded with taxes. A source of guaranteed source of income. Look at the company you work for ( or yourself if you're an owner ). How long would it stay in business if it delivered a crappy product? Why should it stay in business? What happens with public schools? They get *more* money if they do a lousy job!!! Talk about reverse incentives!There is NO problem with eliminating public schools, only benefits. Those areas with high income will still have at least the same quality as before, those areas with low incomes will still be worse off. The benefit is that now the schools must deliver a quality product or go out of business. It's called competition. It brings out the best in people." brainwash the masses,"Read some of the history books, then say that.

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@ mutatron"Those statistics don't mean what you think they mean."That is exactly how those who support public school use those statistics, when comparing schools. I am not making up uses."Even if it were true..., that doesn't mean that a ghetto black boy whose parents don't give a crap about education, or a Mexican girl whose Mami isn't even literate in Spanish and wants her to help around the house instead of going to school are going to get a better education if they are homeschooled. Homeschooling by uneducated parents?"Ah! You're a Paternalist! Now it all makes sense. You believe other people are too stupid to do what you think is for their own good, so you're going to do what you think is best for them even if you have to do do it at gun point. At least you are being honest about it.Now, if you go back and look at what I wrote, or better yet if you do any research at all, you will see that even children of parents who never finished highschool do better when homeschooled than when put through the ringer that is forced public school."How would that even work?"Excellent! You're asking functional questions instead of demanding that things can't work if you don't force it on the ignorant masses.It works, because there are many different techniques for self-education. I don't have to know calculus, for instance, in order to know where to find a calculus text book.Entire K-12 curriculums for $100, not including math textbooks. Here's one, found with a quick google search: <a class="user" href="http://www.hstreasures.com/index.html&quot;&gt;http://www.hstreasures.com/index.html&lt;/a&gt;But you are correct in one respect: There will be those few children whose parents are so disinterested that they wouldn't lift a finger to teach them anything. Some could "fall through the cracks".Show me how no one is falling through the cracks _right now_, and I will concede you might have a point.

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@ jeffiek,Mutatron said, " brainwash the masses," You said, "Read some of the history books, then say that."Considering that the people who created the public school systems were specifically and deliberately trying to brainwash the masses, and said so in their own writings on the subject, reading a history book on the subject is a very, very good idea no matter what your opinion.

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"Only if you're ignorant enough to think that the personal income tax is the only tax."Far from it. There are hundreds of taxes to chose from, however each tax and type of tax has to be dealt with on it's own merits in relation to the economy surrounding it."And it _is_ a bad thing. Every penny is extracted from someone productive, and given to someone who is not productive."So productive people don't use roads? Productive people don't need police, fire and emergency medical attention? Productive people don't need military protection from hostile nations? Productive people don't need access to clean water, safe food and medicines? Of course they're already productive, so what do they need schools for anymore?"Why, on one side of an arbitrary line, was one of the poorest areas of the world, while on the other side of the line was one of the most wealthy cities (with near zero natural resources) that the world has ever known?"That would be the difference between communism and capitalism. Taxation is less of an issue than ownership."What is the difference between a taxidermist and a tax collector? The taxidermist takes only your skin."–Mark TwainMark Twain was known for colorful quotations, while he was a very intelligent man, he was also taken to making largess statements for attention."The people are hungry: It is because those in authority eat up too much in taxes."–Lao Tzu"too much" would also imply there is a correct balance for taxation that should be aimed for."The tax collector must love poor people - he's creating so many of them."–Bill VaughanThe only people that fear a tax collector, weren't taking care of their money in the first place.

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@ Corvidae,"There are hundreds of taxes to chose from, however each tax and type of tax has to be dealt with on it's own merits in relation to the economy surrounding it."An attitude which ignores the overall drain that taxation of any kind has on the economy. It sounds like you're the kind of person who believes taxation works to "punish bad behavior", like sin taxes."So productive people don't use roads?"I'm actually surprised by your ignorance. Productive people are the only reason that the consumers of taxes have anything to consume. Bureaucrats create _nothing_. They consume. That's why they have to extract their tribute at gun point instead of having user fees.Of course productive people use roads. Are you so stupid as to think that without coercion there would be no infrastructure?Police? Many times as many private security guards and services exist than there are government police. This is because private efforts are more efficient. Again, without coercion to extract the taxes needed to feed the government agencies, those agencies would _fail_. That's why government makes competition with government _illegal_. If it were actually efficient, there would be no need for such illegality."That would be the difference between communism and capitalism. Taxation is less of an issue than ownership."Except that taxation is founded upon the idea that you own nothing. It is communistic at its root, since your property belongs to the state. The state gets to take whatever it wants, subject only to the perception that you won't go "postal"."The only people that fear a tax collector, weren't taking care of their money in the first place."You are very arrogant. You assume that you will never be at the receiving end of the government gun, and therefore you feel no concern about the people who _are_.As strange as it may seem, I sincerely wish that you never are a victim of government. To ensure your continued freedom, I will continue to fight you and other complacent people like you to reduce and eliminate the violent coercive elements in society.The only difference between the mafia and the cops is one has badges. Paying protection money is exactly the same to one or the other.

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"person who believes taxation works to "punish bad behavior", like sin taxes."Punish, never. However they can be used to profit off less desirable actions such as cigarette taxes. Wich is also why I think pot and prostitution should be legal, regulated and taxed. They would provide a large revenue stream to the public, the government and lessen the drain on our prisons and police. Prostitution is a questionable one though, health risks and costs would have to be taken into account."Of course productive people use roads. Are you so stupid as to think that without coercion there would be no infrastructure?"And that's why it took the government to actually get them built? Lets not forget here that anyone can build a road today, and yet the only ones doing it are the local governments. The only time private companies get involved is to come in and buy the toll roads later on. And at this point a large portion of those companies are foriegn."Many times as many private security guards and services exist than there are government police. This is because private efforts are more efficient."It's bacause police departments only deal with immenint threats and aren't paid to provide specialized protection to anyone. The police aren't going to guard your house or your business because you offered them any amount of money. It's not their job to guard you, me or anyone else for profit. However you will find that a large number of officers will do security work on the side for extra money."Except that taxation is founded upon the idea that you own nothing."It's founded on the idea that the nation/city in wich you are living provides many innate as well as active services. Rather than send out a bill for services rendered, they collect it in taxes. Since efforts on behalf of the nation are assumed to be for the benefit of all, then it's easy enough to assume that all should be involved in bearing the burden of cost. And since assumptions are so often a bad thing, elections are put in place to enable the removal of those that break that assumption."You are very arrogant. You assume that you will never be at the receiving end of the government gun,"Actually, I've been shot at by police. I've been arrested, I've been audited. I've had family lands taken by immenent domain. I've been subjected to interrogation (mild, not gitmo style) and imprisonment and generally had the government do a LARGE share of interfering in my life. Every single time, every single intrusion, every single abuse, was brought on by my own actions against the society in wich we live. Aside from the immenent domain, that was a phone company demanding leeway for new buried cables. The family said no, the judge said "screw you".So no, it has nothing to do with arrogance, it has to do with experience."The only difference between the mafia and the cops is one has badges. Paying protection money is exactly the same to one or the other."Honestly that's a sick and twisted view of our police forces. You know, the guys that didn't execute you for a speeding ticket. The badges have a lot of meaning behind them. As a simple demonstration, try telling a cop he's no different than a mafia thug. The fact that he won't kill you on the spot is a testament to their self control.

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@ Palmetto"Daughter or Son? Check your last few sentences."Not at all. Does it matter? If I use one, will you think the other? Then why not use both?

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This is so true-and god forbid you have a truly gifted child, or an indigo, because these brilliant minds cannot function in the public school environment. These kids are the special ones, the random abstract thinkers that could change things-but they are in jails and prisons, or involved in illegal enterprises. These kids rarely ever make it through high school at all. They are flunked out, expelled, sent to behavioral programs, and made to believe that they are failures, somehow less of a person than a straight A student and that they are doomed to a life of mediocrity because of their supposed learning deficiencies.

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