telegraph.co.uk— The euro soared on Monday morning as investors reacted with initial relief at the €750bn (£655bn) plan to defend the single currency and European Monetary Union from potential collapse.
May 10, 2010View in Crawl 4
And still worse is that in shuffling yet more debt around, you have to add in the extra overhead of government taking it's slice from the redistribution.It's like getting a 10th credit card to pay off the debt on other credit cards. After a while, even the short term benefit of 'paying' by use of debt as opposed to real money isn't worth the costs involved. It just becomes a complicated mess.
It's not a nation in its own right, but Hong Kong? Or Singapore if you want a proper "nation". Depends on your definition of "developed", I guess. But really, Asia (particularly China and the surrounding area) is where the future is. No need to keep thinking of Europe.
I never said Europe. But I'd prefer somewhere where I could get by on the king's English. I don't plan on having to learn Mandarin or Danish (I've already learned Spanish, French and Japanese, which I think is enough for my brain).
You're assuming that bank or banking system failure is the worse case scenario.If you use a fiat money system, like most of the world, bank runs and failures serve a vital role in the economy. The first benefit is perhaps the most obvious; An immediate halt to the inflation of money and credit, AKA fractional-reserve disease. The second benefit starts as immediately as the first; Liquidation, or the redirection of labor and capital out of low-return and over-capitalized areas of the economy, which it was misallocated into by bad policies, into under-capitalized areas of the economy with higher returns that it would have been allocated into without any type of policy implementations. The third benefit is the forced reduction in excess consumption and indebtedness, and the purging of the banks and/or entire banking system.Without bank failure none of those events occur. The bad policies continue with one new and dastardly addition; The socialization of credit risk. Now we are forced to labor for Greece's creditors against our will. We had no say in Greece's credit policies, and we have no say in the theft of our labor to pay for the results. What I am trying to say is that slavery is a possible outcome to the dogma of preventing bank failures at any cost.
Very valid points. Dugg.I don't understand why you are so against fractional reserve though. How else can a world economy function if money isn't represented by debt? Please don't say gold, you sound like an educated person and I'm sure you can't believe the whole money backed by gold BS.
Uh, Hong Kong and Singapore were British for quite a bit of their existence. As such, you'll be more than able to get by in those places on just English even though they're no longer British (the Chinese government continues to use English as an official language in Hong Kong; same in Singapore). You don't have to try living on the mainland if you aren't particularly inclined to learn Mandarin.
Which is why they're moving on and trying to stimulate domestic demand as well as demand in surrounding countries. Of course they would be nuts to continually rely on the US. Though it makes me wonder why they keep holding on to all those American T-bonds...
kaelyiestaMay 10, 2010
And still worse is that in shuffling yet more debt around, you have to add in the extra overhead of government taking it's slice from the redistribution.It's like getting a 10th credit card to pay off the debt on other credit cards. After a while, even the short term benefit of 'paying' by use of debt as opposed to real money isn't worth the costs involved. It just becomes a complicated mess.
yangj08May 10, 2010
It's not a nation in its own right, but Hong Kong? Or Singapore if you want a proper "nation". Depends on your definition of "developed", I guess. But really, Asia (particularly China and the surrounding area) is where the future is. No need to keep thinking of Europe.
secrityMay 10, 2010
What is the interest rate on IMF loans?
elranzerMay 10, 2010
I never said Europe. But I'd prefer somewhere where I could get by on the king's English. I don't plan on having to learn Mandarin or Danish (I've already learned Spanish, French and Japanese, which I think is enough for my brain).
shigMay 10, 2010
You're assuming that bank or banking system failure is the worse case scenario.If you use a fiat money system, like most of the world, bank runs and failures serve a vital role in the economy. The first benefit is perhaps the most obvious; An immediate halt to the inflation of money and credit, AKA fractional-reserve disease. The second benefit starts as immediately as the first; Liquidation, or the redirection of labor and capital out of low-return and over-capitalized areas of the economy, which it was misallocated into by bad policies, into under-capitalized areas of the economy with higher returns that it would have been allocated into without any type of policy implementations. The third benefit is the forced reduction in excess consumption and indebtedness, and the purging of the banks and/or entire banking system.Without bank failure none of those events occur. The bad policies continue with one new and dastardly addition; The socialization of credit risk. Now we are forced to labor for Greece's creditors against our will. We had no say in Greece's credit policies, and we have no say in the theft of our labor to pay for the results. What I am trying to say is that slavery is a possible outcome to the dogma of preventing bank failures at any cost.
phatfiendMay 11, 2010
Very valid points. Dugg.I don't understand why you are so against fractional reserve though. How else can a world economy function if money isn't represented by debt? Please don't say gold, you sound like an educated person and I'm sure you can't believe the whole money backed by gold BS.
yangj08May 11, 2010
Uh, Hong Kong and Singapore were British for quite a bit of their existence. As such, you'll be more than able to get by in those places on just English even though they're no longer British (the Chinese government continues to use English as an official language in Hong Kong; same in Singapore). You don't have to try living on the mainland if you aren't particularly inclined to learn Mandarin.
yangj08May 11, 2010
Which is why they're moving on and trying to stimulate domestic demand as well as demand in surrounding countries. Of course they would be nuts to continually rely on the US. Though it makes me wonder why they keep holding on to all those American T-bonds...
funkywoodMay 11, 2010
I so was gonna guy greek bonds too.