nytimes.com — A minister is defrocked when he presides over his daughter's same-sex marriage. She has studied to be a minister but hasn't been ordained because of how open she is about her sexuality. Her partner just graduated from a theological institute. A very religious family at the center of the church's debate with homosexuality.
Jun 27, 2006 View in Crawl 4
redogJun 27, 2006
Marriage was created by churches. Before churches "married" people they just lived together, procreated, and lived happily ever after(or not) with the blessings(or not) of the community in which they lived. I am against all marriages. Its just plain silly. If you want someone and someone wants you then its a done deal, what the hell does everyone need the paper work for? All a marriage contract serves to do is create an illusion for fools that the other is in fact their possession. Which should be fine, if that is in fact what the other wants. But people all to often foolishly feel obligated to fit the parts. Whatever, I'm married because she wanted me to. Behold the power of the pecan.
velocipenguinJun 27, 2006
I've been to college, where they teach you to support your arguments with solid evidence. Obviously, you never learned about that.
endyminionJun 27, 2006
Anyone who even condemns you is completely unfounded. Nowhere in the bible does it condemn being Homosexual as a sin. Sin comes from actions or behaviors. You've given us no indication either way as to your sexual activity, so nobody can condemn you. Even you did talk about how you enjoy hot unmarried man sex, a contrite heart would remain silent and simply seek to engage you for you who are, not what you do. Our sins are between ourselves and God. Christians can encourage fellow Christians to seek higher ground, and they can offer advice and encourage others to live more in line with God, but in the end it is completely worthless to try to force an idea on anyone, whether it be about religion or any other ideal.
tominator1983Jun 28, 2006
For all those of you who keep using the word, "bigot", here's the official dictionary definition:bigotn : a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his ownNow, think about this. By calling someone a "bigot", you are demonstrating not only your prejudice against them, but you are demonstrating your intolerance for their opinions, which differ from theirs. Therefore, the moment you call someone a bigot, you automatically are calling yourself one by inference.Let's take this a bit further.I want you to read the entire Bible, and then try and tell me that God is not a bigot.If you actually read the Bible (which forms the entire basis of Christianity), you will see scriptures that say homosexuality is wrong. You will also see many instances where God proclaims his intolerance for other belief systems. Out of the Ten Commandments, what is the very first one? "you shall have no other gods before me".Is God flexible? No. He states his case and His laws very clearly in the Bible. Numerous passages talk about fire and brimstone and gnashing of teeth for those who do not follow these laws.The Biblical God is *NOT* tolerant of anyone's viewpoints other than His own.Therefore, according to the dictionary, God is a bigot.That said, let me just clarify something. I am an agnostic. However, this does not mean I'm stupid when it comes to scripture. I come from a very strong biblical background and was raised going to church twice a day (my father was a preacher). I have personally read the Bible from front to back a number of times in my life.At first, I tried the whole "Christian" route. But no matter what I did, I couldn't escape the fact that the God presented in the Bible is self-contradictory. He's supposed to be all-knowing, all-powerful, etc... But the stories show him acting childishly. Would an all-knowing, loving God honestly create an entire civiliation of people only to throw a temper tantrum when they didn't behave and wipe them out in a flood? Would an all-knowing, all-powerful, infinite God honestly be unable to understand the actions of the very things He created?I could go on and on, but instead, I will stop and end with this last thought:If you want to join a club, you have to follow the club's rules. If the club is called "Chewing Gum Haters", then you're just dumb if you try to join that club with you have a wad of chewing gum in your mouth.The Christianity "club" rules say homosexuality is *not* allowed. Period.Stop trying to change the rules. If you don't like the rules, don't join the freakin club. And stop whining about it.
spacecadetjunoJun 28, 2006
I think it's just kind of funny that alot of people who will point to the bible and call out how it says it's wrong to be gay won't follow the rest of it. They just seem to be picking out what they like and don't like. I mean according to the bible when a woman is menstrating she is unclean and shouldn't be touched. So it seems you just don't like people who are different at this point.
localhJun 29, 2006
I bet you're a closet queer, aren't you?
txcowgirlJul 18, 2006
I am a complete conservative, and don't agree with homosexuality. That doesn't mean I hate or I'm homophobic. I just want the word out there that there are Christians who can love the sinner but hate the sin. Being gay doesn't have anything to do with whether or not I I associate myself with your company but rather, I don't necessarily believe what you are doing is the best thing for you.
wvdavisJul 25, 2006
@ Matic - As you seem to know a lot about God. Let's remember, he will judge us. And as Jesus said, let him that is with our sin cast the first stone. We are not our brother or sisters judges, but their keepers. It is not our place to judge others.~ a sinner
neomatrixjrNov 20, 2006
I actually agree (as a Christian) to the voiced points of TheJadedDog and endyminion with the exception of homosexuality being a sin. Yes, it is:Leviticus 18:22 states the principle: "You [masculine] shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." The second (Lev. 20:13) adds the penalty: "If a man lies with a male as a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them." --<a class="user" href="http://www.bridges-across.org/ba/wink.htm">http://www.bridges-across.org/ba/wink.htm</a>It is completely worthless to force an ideal on someone, and I'm not here to judge anyone. I don't believe I have that right as I know I sin daily. What gets me are people who say they are Christians and homosexuals or that the church should have to accept (as a right way of life) homosexuality. The whole idea of being a christian is to be more like Christ (one who was sinless). To go about your day-to-day life living in a sin such as homosexuality, or having the church condone such acts would (IMHO) be heresy.