I have The God Delusion book in passing. I have read aprox. 1/3 of the book. though I will admit, I have not placed it high on my list of priorities.(it was a gift) - On the flipside, I have read and absorbed countless books covering a broad spectrum of life and science. Some good some boring, however I have not encountered a single term which raised any issues on the concept of creation. Do I challenge my own beliefs? Absolutely. Am ready to consider new evidence as an alternative to my own beliefs? Absolutely. I would also like to add that I applaud your closing statement, I too share a liberal view of others beliefs regardless of my own, contrary to what some may advocate this is the best way to achieve harmony under the circumstances.
@zeibenReligion Re*li"gion (r[-e]*l[i^]j"[u^]n), n. [F., from L. religio; cf. religens pious, revering the gods, Gr. 'ale`gein to heed, have a care. Cf. {Neglect}.] 1. The outward act or form by which men indicate their recognition of the existence of a god or of gods having power over their destiny, to whom obedience, service, and honor are due; the feeling or expression of human love, fear, or awe of some superhuman and overruling power, whether by profession of belief, by observance of rites and ceremonies, or by the conduct of life; a system of faith and worship; a manifestation of piety; as, ethical religions; monotheistic religions; natural religion; revealed religion; the religion of the Jews; the religion of idol worshipers. [1913 Webster]
More Inanities courtesy of Esstee: "it becomes quite obvious that people who consider atheists as an anti-religious movement are quite common."Then they would be just as wrong as you are. It may be quite common for theists to consider atheists something like satanist but that is complete idiocy. As stated previously: Christians are much closer to Satanists than atheists would be. No matter how widespread idiocy is, that doesn't make it correct. The vast majority of atheists are not part of any atheist movement or organization. They simply don't believe in god. That is the only definitive commonality. I am not a member of any atheist organization/movement and I have never even met an atheist who is, I have never even chatted on the internet with another atheist who was part of any atheist movement. I imagine the number is well under 1%. For several reasons. There is no critical mass of atheists, since they are a small minority. There is no central atheist dogma, so atheist have much more diverse views on everything than their theist counterparts and for similar reasons there are no atheist churches. There is no atheist movement, but i guess I shouldn't be surprised at you believing something with no supporting evidence.
You do realize you are chasing your own tail here don't you? If you take a moment and re-read my initial statement you will read "Surprisingly, for many people, atheism is perceived as an organization against religion" However in reading your replies, it would seem as though you are convinced I am the one leading the public on atheistic perceptions. If you pay attention you may spend less time on frivolous replies.
Atheists should thank the Bible for producing a society that enabled Atheists to be so. When the Reformation happend, the concept of an Indidivual's faith and belief in God (and that faith being no one's business cept them) eveually allowed for notions of individual conscience. This concept was kept locked up before the printing press.Europe has thrown that tradition away.. how long will the notion of the individual survive socialism, Islamic Jihad, the collapse of the European ethnic groups, etc?
Right. The bible gave us the society to live in today. It couldn't possibly be some of the thousands of other cultures and religions slowly homoginizing into a single culture where society as a whole utilizes the best of each piece. Of course, I assume your only talking about western culture really, since there are still cultures out there where speaking your spiritual beliefs will get you killed. Lets not forget that America was created largely because of those fleeing England because of the oppressive Theocracy.Morals and ethics do not exist because of religion. They have always existed. Religion exists because of morals and ethics. Religion is just a single tool used to engrain those ideals into the populace at large. What better way to ensure society doesn't destory itself than to have them police themselves.
My belief is that atheism is a term subjected to a variation of social views, not so by definition but rather by individual perceptions. There are considerable differentiations between those with resting beliefs in contrast to people actively rising against indifference under an atheist flag(Richard Dawkins). The challenge an atheist now faces is not in establishing differentiation but rather facing a generalization based on outstanding characteristics.PS. In the unlikely event that you are interested in what I personally feel towards atheism, my answer is simple put, I truly don't care what position a person(s) has relative to God. Unless of course he or she is not able to respect my boundaries of personal freedom which I think is a fairly universal outlook.
"What's the difference between you and Father Brown, who both want to tell me what to [not] believe and how to live my life?"You are acting as if getting an idea out is somehow unique to religion. Look around you. Every social cause, every amateur sports club, every hobby, and most employers advertise their desire for new members.You shouldn't be asking for a false comparison of atheism with religions. You should be answering your own question simply by realising that virutally every opinion, on anything, that people hold is inevitably going to be promoted by those people who consider diseminating it to be either good or important.You are, of course, free to disagree with them, no matter what the subject is.
essteeJan 4, 2007
I have The God Delusion book in passing. I have read aprox. 1/3 of the book. though I will admit, I have not placed it high on my list of priorities.(it was a gift) - On the flipside, I have read and absorbed countless books covering a broad spectrum of life and science. Some good some boring, however I have not encountered a single term which raised any issues on the concept of creation. Do I challenge my own beliefs? Absolutely. Am ready to consider new evidence as an alternative to my own beliefs? Absolutely. I would also like to add that I applaud your closing statement, I too share a liberal view of others beliefs regardless of my own, contrary to what some may advocate this is the best way to achieve harmony under the circumstances.
keithguhJan 4, 2007
@zeibenReligion Re*li"gion (r[-e]*l[i^]j"[u^]n), n. [F., from L. religio; cf. religens pious, revering the gods, Gr. 'ale`gein to heed, have a care. Cf. {Neglect}.] 1. The outward act or form by which men indicate their recognition of the existence of a god or of gods having power over their destiny, to whom obedience, service, and honor are due; the feeling or expression of human love, fear, or awe of some superhuman and overruling power, whether by profession of belief, by observance of rites and ceremonies, or by the conduct of life; a system of faith and worship; a manifestation of piety; as, ethical religions; monotheistic religions; natural religion; revealed religion; the religion of the Jews; the religion of idol worshipers. [1913 Webster]
bytorJan 5, 2007
More Inanities courtesy of Esstee: "it becomes quite obvious that people who consider atheists as an anti-religious movement are quite common."Then they would be just as wrong as you are. It may be quite common for theists to consider atheists something like satanist but that is complete idiocy. As stated previously: Christians are much closer to Satanists than atheists would be. No matter how widespread idiocy is, that doesn't make it correct. The vast majority of atheists are not part of any atheist movement or organization. They simply don't believe in god. That is the only definitive commonality. I am not a member of any atheist organization/movement and I have never even met an atheist who is, I have never even chatted on the internet with another atheist who was part of any atheist movement. I imagine the number is well under 1%. For several reasons. There is no critical mass of atheists, since they are a small minority. There is no central atheist dogma, so atheist have much more diverse views on everything than their theist counterparts and for similar reasons there are no atheist churches. There is no atheist movement, but i guess I shouldn't be surprised at you believing something with no supporting evidence.
essteeJan 6, 2007
You do realize you are chasing your own tail here don't you? If you take a moment and re-read my initial statement you will read "Surprisingly, for many people, atheism is perceived as an organization against religion" However in reading your replies, it would seem as though you are convinced I am the one leading the public on atheistic perceptions. If you pay attention you may spend less time on frivolous replies.
vincep1974Jan 6, 2007
Atheists should thank the Bible for producing a society that enabled Atheists to be so. When the Reformation happend, the concept of an Indidivual's faith and belief in God (and that faith being no one's business cept them) eveually allowed for notions of individual conscience. This concept was kept locked up before the printing press.Europe has thrown that tradition away.. how long will the notion of the individual survive socialism, Islamic Jihad, the collapse of the European ethnic groups, etc?
essteeJan 6, 2007
...
bytorJan 6, 2007
placement error...
drmangrumJan 6, 2007
Right. The bible gave us the society to live in today. It couldn't possibly be some of the thousands of other cultures and religions slowly homoginizing into a single culture where society as a whole utilizes the best of each piece. Of course, I assume your only talking about western culture really, since there are still cultures out there where speaking your spiritual beliefs will get you killed. Lets not forget that America was created largely because of those fleeing England because of the oppressive Theocracy.Morals and ethics do not exist because of religion. They have always existed. Religion exists because of morals and ethics. Religion is just a single tool used to engrain those ideals into the populace at large. What better way to ensure society doesn't destory itself than to have them police themselves.
essteeJan 6, 2007
My belief is that atheism is a term subjected to a variation of social views, not so by definition but rather by individual perceptions. There are considerable differentiations between those with resting beliefs in contrast to people actively rising against indifference under an atheist flag(Richard Dawkins). The challenge an atheist now faces is not in establishing differentiation but rather facing a generalization based on outstanding characteristics.PS. In the unlikely event that you are interested in what I personally feel towards atheism, my answer is simple put, I truly don't care what position a person(s) has relative to God. Unless of course he or she is not able to respect my boundaries of personal freedom which I think is a fairly universal outlook.
seathanaichMay 27, 2009
"What's the difference between you and Father Brown, who both want to tell me what to [not] believe and how to live my life?"You are acting as if getting an idea out is somehow unique to religion. Look around you. Every social cause, every amateur sports club, every hobby, and most employers advertise their desire for new members.You shouldn't be asking for a false comparison of atheism with religions. You should be answering your own question simply by realising that virutally every opinion, on anything, that people hold is inevitably going to be promoted by those people who consider diseminating it to be either good or important.You are, of course, free to disagree with them, no matter what the subject is.