gotquestions.org— Biblical prophecy plays two roles. It foretells the future, and it explains what the positive or negative results of future events will be. Prophecy may announce events that bring ....
Jan 3, 2009View in Crawl 4
But theres no independent evidence that Jesus even existed, yet alone fulfilled the prophecies. There may be one historical mention of the name (Josephus one was a forgery), but thats it. Secondly, assuming he actually did some of the stuff ascribed to him, we know Jesus knew the old testament, and obviously tried to fulfill them himself. (Consider how he rode the donkey into town , willingly sought his death, etc). Its far easier to believe that the writers of the NT made up the story to fulfill the prophecies, and then the church picked the books that worked best (out of over 200 possible gnostic texts that have been found concerning Jesus from the first century). And please, don't give me bulls**t about the virgin birth, because that was a mistranslaiton by monks looking to validate the OT and the God-king myth stereotype, (actual word means young maiden). Thirdly, the prophecies of the OT are so vague, that they can often be fulfilled many ways.. There are also several prophecies that were not fulfilled by Jesus (do some research) and many that were flat out wrong in the OT (again, do research if interested). Considering all the other holy books and myth texts with prophesies, some of which have come true, some which haven't , its clear, the bible is one of these (although it is pretty well crafted), it is far from perfect, and anyone who thinks so is deluded. In fact, someone list Nostradamous has a pretty damn good track record himself.A lot of these prophecies are "self fulfilling" (like the formation of Isreal), or are just really vague and then said to be fulfilled in retrospect by Christians eager to validate their precious bible, and eager to see the world burn in hellfire at Armageddon. I think scepticsannotatedbible.com has some more info somewhere
Delton, where in the world are you getting your information? Even secular scholars with an axe to grind are forced to admit there is more historical, extra-Biblical evidence concerning Jesus than there is any other figure in history. Your second argument makes a little more sense at first glance, namely that he purposely fulfilled prophesy. But it quickly breaks down when you realize He had to “arrange” to be born at specific time, in a specific place and in a specific way to a specific person. Speaking of a specific person, let’s deal with Mary’s virginity. You are correct that one translation of the word translated “virgin” could be “maiden.” But put the discourse in context. God asked what He could do to prove Himself, and the impossible mission was for a virgin to give birth. Now let me ask you, would you consider it miraculous if a young lady got pregnant and gave birth? Well neither would God, nor the people He was trying to reach. In that light, the only way to translate the verse in question is to use “virgin.” Your third point concerned prophesies that Jesus left unfilled. What are you referring to? Then there’s Armageddon. There will be a great loss of life as you point out, but the world will NOT be destroyed as many seem to think. Finally, you seem to have a mind sharp enough to handle Chuck Missler’s “Cosmic Codes.” Chuck was a CEO of several Fortune 500 companies, but his doctorate was in cryptology and information sciences. In this book, he turns his keen mind into finding hidden information and patterns in the Bible. We aren’t talking about the equal letter sequences, but elegant design that goes way beyond anything so mundane. I think you would really enjoy it.
"But it quickly breaks down when you realize He had to “arrange” to be born at specific time, in a specific place and in a specific way to a specific person." dare2dream2, maybe delton was covertly arguing for God's plan. No one else could have arranged his own birth.delton, thanks for proving God's existence :) Since you have proven that Jesus is God, do you think that God would create His mother as the only other perfect human being, free from original sin? I know that I would if given a choice.
Actually, all that would be needed is for people to *believe* he was born in the appropriate way. A much easier achievement. Just exploit the confirmation bias - the believers would never question claims that they wish to be true, so the written accounts would include many things that didn't happen - rumors that spread until they became accepted as fact.Just look at some of the utter crap that gets published today. You think people were smarter back then, before formal education?
Jesus wasn't "BORN" aa mean. Like that was His beginning? He has Always existed before the foundation of the world. Jesus came into the world in that way." Being born of a virgin. Humbling Himself -making Himself helpless as man so he would know what men endure and all for the purpose of fulfilling the Will of God concerning His created beings and to save us from our sins and an eternal separation for God in a very real and eternal Hell to come.
You are speaking from a worldly intelligence which you trust. It is not to be trusted. Your intellect is a deception upon you and a stumbling block in your path to the Truth of Who God is.He is amazing. There is no one like Him. Hell is no Mythology. It is Truth and nor did it come form any Greek source. But the Word of the Living God. Most "religions" I think have some type of this. It isa REAL place of eternal torment and suffering nonetheless.
Thank you for sharing your story, and your honesty in sharing it. I assuredly believe in Bible prophecy as well. So many have been fulfilled it is just astounding. Over 500 of them have been that I am aware of. Probably more by now.With what is happening in this world and the Middle East relating Israel today. The rise of anti-Semitism again. etc etc. Then? That's GOD it? HE IS TRULY AMAZING!!
deltonJan 4, 2009
But theres no independent evidence that Jesus even existed, yet alone fulfilled the prophecies. There may be one historical mention of the name (Josephus one was a forgery), but thats it. Secondly, assuming he actually did some of the stuff ascribed to him, we know Jesus knew the old testament, and obviously tried to fulfill them himself. (Consider how he rode the donkey into town , willingly sought his death, etc). Its far easier to believe that the writers of the NT made up the story to fulfill the prophecies, and then the church picked the books that worked best (out of over 200 possible gnostic texts that have been found concerning Jesus from the first century). And please, don't give me bulls**t about the virgin birth, because that was a mistranslaiton by monks looking to validate the OT and the God-king myth stereotype, (actual word means young maiden). Thirdly, the prophecies of the OT are so vague, that they can often be fulfilled many ways.. There are also several prophecies that were not fulfilled by Jesus (do some research) and many that were flat out wrong in the OT (again, do research if interested). Considering all the other holy books and myth texts with prophesies, some of which have come true, some which haven't , its clear, the bible is one of these (although it is pretty well crafted), it is far from perfect, and anyone who thinks so is deluded. In fact, someone list Nostradamous has a pretty damn good track record himself.A lot of these prophecies are "self fulfilling" (like the formation of Isreal), or are just really vague and then said to be fulfilled in retrospect by Christians eager to validate their precious bible, and eager to see the world burn in hellfire at Armageddon. I think scepticsannotatedbible.com has some more info somewhere
dare2dream2Jan 4, 2009
Delton, where in the world are you getting your information? Even secular scholars with an axe to grind are forced to admit there is more historical, extra-Biblical evidence concerning Jesus than there is any other figure in history. Your second argument makes a little more sense at first glance, namely that he purposely fulfilled prophesy. But it quickly breaks down when you realize He had to “arrange” to be born at specific time, in a specific place and in a specific way to a specific person. Speaking of a specific person, let’s deal with Mary’s virginity. You are correct that one translation of the word translated “virgin” could be “maiden.” But put the discourse in context. God asked what He could do to prove Himself, and the impossible mission was for a virgin to give birth. Now let me ask you, would you consider it miraculous if a young lady got pregnant and gave birth? Well neither would God, nor the people He was trying to reach. In that light, the only way to translate the verse in question is to use “virgin.” Your third point concerned prophesies that Jesus left unfilled. What are you referring to? Then there’s Armageddon. There will be a great loss of life as you point out, but the world will NOT be destroyed as many seem to think. Finally, you seem to have a mind sharp enough to handle Chuck Missler’s “Cosmic Codes.” Chuck was a CEO of several Fortune 500 companies, but his doctorate was in cryptology and information sciences. In this book, he turns his keen mind into finding hidden information and patterns in the Bible. We aren’t talking about the equal letter sequences, but elegant design that goes way beyond anything so mundane. I think you would really enjoy it.
texasknightJan 5, 2009
"But it quickly breaks down when you realize He had to “arrange” to be born at specific time, in a specific place and in a specific way to a specific person." dare2dream2, maybe delton was covertly arguing for God's plan. No one else could have arranged his own birth.delton, thanks for proving God's existence :) Since you have proven that Jesus is God, do you think that God would create His mother as the only other perfect human being, free from original sin? I know that I would if given a choice.
suricouJan 6, 2009
Actually, all that would be needed is for people to *believe* he was born in the appropriate way. A much easier achievement. Just exploit the confirmation bias - the believers would never question claims that they wish to be true, so the written accounts would include many things that didn't happen - rumors that spread until they became accepted as fact.Just look at some of the utter crap that gets published today. You think people were smarter back then, before formal education?
Closed AccountJan 6, 2009
Jesus wasn't "BORN" aa mean. Like that was His beginning? He has Always existed before the foundation of the world. Jesus came into the world in that way." Being born of a virgin. Humbling Himself -making Himself helpless as man so he would know what men endure and all for the purpose of fulfilling the Will of God concerning His created beings and to save us from our sins and an eternal separation for God in a very real and eternal Hell to come.
Closed AccountJan 6, 2009
You are speaking from a worldly intelligence which you trust. It is not to be trusted. Your intellect is a deception upon you and a stumbling block in your path to the Truth of Who God is.He is amazing. There is no one like Him. Hell is no Mythology. It is Truth and nor did it come form any Greek source. But the Word of the Living God. Most "religions" I think have some type of this. It isa REAL place of eternal torment and suffering nonetheless.
pablomacJan 6, 2009
The Bible isn't one book. It's a collection of many books written across the span of many hundreds of years.
Closed AccountJan 8, 2009
Thank you for sharing your story, and your honesty in sharing it. I assuredly believe in Bible prophecy as well. So many have been fulfilled it is just astounding. Over 500 of them have been that I am aware of. Probably more by now.With what is happening in this world and the Middle East relating Israel today. The rise of anti-Semitism again. etc etc. Then? That's GOD it? HE IS TRULY AMAZING!!
Closed AccountJan 9, 2009
Gotcha. Just read it. Thank you wardawg31.