timesonline.co.uk— US-backed dictator may not seem like such a bad option in Mesopotamia. And I feel Rumsfeld will be telling himself he knew it all along.
Aug 20, 2006View in Crawl 4
First we went to war because of WMDs, then when we found out that there weren't any and we knew all along, we changed it to going to war to bring freedom to the people of Iraq. What is our excuse going to be after we install a dictator who takes away their freedom?
flag8r-You are correct that Jimmy Carter did not personally help to overthrow the shah. What I was referring to was Carter's undermining of the Shah and lack of support for one of our allies during the Iranian revolution.One reason for the tepidness and indecision of Washington was that the significant factions of the administration, especially in the State Dept. viewed the Shah as the problem in Iran. Neither the state Dept. nor the intelligence community took Islamic fundamentalism seriously, while American scholars on Iran deprecated the idea that the clergy (Khomeini) would participate directly in forming or running a government.I was merely commenting that if Carter had wanted to, he could have prevented the Shah's overthrow. But Carter wasn't worried about Islamic fundamentalism, and the Khomeini wasted no time in installing a fundamentalist Islamic republic, executing homosexuals and revoking, among other secular laws, the statute granting women the right to divorce and restricting polygamy. Sixty-nine former government officials were executed in one night in March; most of Iran's senior military commander who didn't flee the country were also put to death. Komeini's regime executed more people in its first year in power than the Shah's SAVAK had allegedly killed in the previous 25 years.So whenever you look at the mess in Iran, thank Jimmy Carter.
Iraq doesn't have a strong middle class, because those who make it up ( educated or skilled professionals) have either been killed or left the country. Ask any political science major and they will tell you that democracy requires a strong middle class, which Iraq doesn't have. They will also tell you that 1+1 does not equal 3.
It's not a mess in Iran, it was as intended by the US. And I'll tell you why.Look at the landscape circa Jimmy Carter. Russia is trying to grow south into the 'stans, historically, the best natural defence against the spread of communism is ethnic unification. The US allowed/didn't prevent/actively installed many Islamic fundamentalist states, to lock the commies in. Islamic fundamentalism is/was a geo-political tool used for the benefit of the US for the past 30-40 years.Now that the Soviet Union is gone, the fundamentalists are being hung out to dry by their previous backer, the US.My guess about the current situation is that, the US doesn't care about peace or discord in the region. They just want to get rid of everyone that helped them achieve the fall of the soviet union. And start with new people to brainwash with their their agenda for the next 30 years, whatever that may be. Probably to conserve the energy crisis in China for the next 30 years in order to erode the budding standard of living.
Good gawd. Some people will discuss anything they see in print as long as it's anti Bush. The slew of s**tty, outlandish articles that have bobbed to the surface of digg has been disappointing, to say the least. The amount of inaccurate propaganda with which certain activist groups flood the Internet has become quite disgusting.Marked as lame.
mbraneAug 20, 2006
"some countries work best with dictators to keep order"Funny...I wonder if Bush & co. feel that way about the U.S.A.?
smerndmgyAug 21, 2006
First we went to war because of WMDs, then when we found out that there weren't any and we knew all along, we changed it to going to war to bring freedom to the people of Iraq. What is our excuse going to be after we install a dictator who takes away their freedom?
sgt99999Aug 21, 2006
A democratically elected dictatorshi works for us, why not them? (haha)
Closed AccountAug 21, 2006
flag8r-You are correct that Jimmy Carter did not personally help to overthrow the shah. What I was referring to was Carter's undermining of the Shah and lack of support for one of our allies during the Iranian revolution.One reason for the tepidness and indecision of Washington was that the significant factions of the administration, especially in the State Dept. viewed the Shah as the problem in Iran. Neither the state Dept. nor the intelligence community took Islamic fundamentalism seriously, while American scholars on Iran deprecated the idea that the clergy (Khomeini) would participate directly in forming or running a government.I was merely commenting that if Carter had wanted to, he could have prevented the Shah's overthrow. But Carter wasn't worried about Islamic fundamentalism, and the Khomeini wasted no time in installing a fundamentalist Islamic republic, executing homosexuals and revoking, among other secular laws, the statute granting women the right to divorce and restricting polygamy. Sixty-nine former government officials were executed in one night in March; most of Iran's senior military commander who didn't flee the country were also put to death. Komeini's regime executed more people in its first year in power than the Shah's SAVAK had allegedly killed in the previous 25 years.So whenever you look at the mess in Iran, thank Jimmy Carter.
Closed AccountAug 21, 2006
@ nreynolds - there's a significant difference between a screwdriver and weapons, particularly in their intended uses.
cheekybastardAug 21, 2006
Iraq doesn't have a strong middle class, because those who make it up ( educated or skilled professionals) have either been killed or left the country. Ask any political science major and they will tell you that democracy requires a strong middle class, which Iraq doesn't have. They will also tell you that 1+1 does not equal 3.
tehnicoAug 21, 2006
It's not a mess in Iran, it was as intended by the US. And I'll tell you why.Look at the landscape circa Jimmy Carter. Russia is trying to grow south into the 'stans, historically, the best natural defence against the spread of communism is ethnic unification. The US allowed/didn't prevent/actively installed many Islamic fundamentalist states, to lock the commies in. Islamic fundamentalism is/was a geo-political tool used for the benefit of the US for the past 30-40 years.Now that the Soviet Union is gone, the fundamentalists are being hung out to dry by their previous backer, the US.My guess about the current situation is that, the US doesn't care about peace or discord in the region. They just want to get rid of everyone that helped them achieve the fall of the soviet union. And start with new people to brainwash with their their agenda for the next 30 years, whatever that may be. Probably to conserve the energy crisis in China for the next 30 years in order to erode the budding standard of living.
koosebaneAug 21, 2006
Good gawd. Some people will discuss anything they see in print as long as it's anti Bush. The slew of s**tty, outlandish articles that have bobbed to the surface of digg has been disappointing, to say the least. The amount of inaccurate propaganda with which certain activist groups flood the Internet has become quite disgusting.Marked as lame.
expertbloggerMar 9, 2008
Maybe Iraq is better off with a dictator killing 20,000 people than a civil war killing 500,000 or more. My ideal situation was to have never gone there in the first place, but we all know how that turned out. And, further, they are just as influenced by multiculturalism as everyone else...so they'll be tempted to overlook it if a muslim starts getting dictatorial power. <a class="user" href="http://mentalux.info">http://mentalux.info</a> <a class="user" href="http://mewlstee.info">http://mewlstee.info</a> <a class="user" href="http://mimerhut.info">http://mimerhut.info</a> <a class="user" href="http://moistyes.info">http://moistyes.info</a> <a class="user" href="http://mowedfud.info">http://mowedfud.info</a> <a class="user" href="http://nichetaj.info">http://nichetaj.info</a> <a class="user" href="http://oddererr.info">http://oddererr.info</a> <a class="user" href="http://offalpis.info">http://offalpis.info</a> <a class="user" href="http://oralsmob.info">http://oralsmob.info</a> <a class="user" href="http://orcaspis.info">http://orcaspis.info</a>