time.com — Few Americans realize that their cars can tattle on them. This week, the Federal Government is expected to issue rules requiring automakers to standardize the recorders and make the information uniformly downloadable with commercial software. Thus, some manufacturers who have guarded black-box data as proprietary will have to make it accessible.
Aug 7, 2006 View in Crawl 4
bruce89Aug 7, 2006
They want to bring in satellite tracking in Britain, so they can charge people by what roads they are on.
osbjmgAug 7, 2006
MasterGrief - Did you really just say that? Ignore it because it annoys you? Maybe you hear about it a lot because it's happening and people that you hear it from are not conformists and rolling over like dogs. It's just easier to ignore it huh?
wussAug 7, 2006
For all you VW and Audi owners, a tool does exists to manipluate your cars ECU (electronic control unit). VW and Audi modders have been doing it for years.<a class="user" href="http://www.ross-tech.com/">http://www.ross-tech.com/</a>It's not so much a "hack" as it is an actual replication of the diagnostic tool that dealers use, plus a lot more. You can scan,read and manipulate almost every aspect of the ECU's function. It's $230 bucks, but consider this. A diagnostic computer scan at the dealership runs 80-90 buck, so use it a few times and it already pays for itself.I was a minor victim of "monitoring". When my Golf 1.8t went into service, the dealer tried to pull some anti-warranty service crap by pointing out that my driving is very agressive. The ECU tracks and averages out my average speed and RPM shift points. Anyways, it's a must have for any VW/Audi owner. Much more powerful and more intuitive then most of the other open market diagnostic tools you can buy for some other makes.
qwickoneAug 7, 2006
While I agree that you shouldnt expect privacy while driving on a public road, I expect some degree of privacy when using my private property. If they want to put motion cameras all over the road that can determine speed, well go right ahead. I just dont think it's right to put it in my private property.
brad3378Aug 7, 2006
Let me play the devil's advocate:This might actually be a good thing.Let's assume that the average driver now has one speeding ticket on their record.If this technology resulted in average drivers having ten tickets, it would not necessarily mean that the average driver would be paying more for insurance, but it would definitely be a more accurate method to determine a driver's risk due to increased resolution of the measurement. What do you think?
doolittleAug 7, 2006
how about, if you are going to go drag racing, dont' kill anyone if you crash (especially other innocent bystanders), and don't lie about it to the police if it happens - then the police won't bother to try and download data from your car to prove otherwise. They were racing, they crashed into a third vehicle killing all passengers - they plead to manslaugher - well deserved IMHO...I don't see any type of privacy violation here at all since the black box did nothing to stop or prevent the race or accident in any way, nor inform if any ill activity. All was done post-mortem - sadly in this case...However there are some questionable practice in car rental agencies:"Tracking Every Move You Make: Can Car Rental Companies Use Technology to Monitor Our Driving?A Connecticut Court's Ruling Highlights an Important Question"<a class="user" href="http://writ.news.findlaw.com/ramasastry/20050823.html">http://writ.news.findlaw.com/ramasastry/20050823.html</a>This is an example of a car rental charging for "excessive speed"... So if you are going to cry privacy please use a correct example like this one.
nogamiAug 7, 2006
Heck, it seemed to work fine in this case. Dumbass dips**t kids "claimed" they were only driving 50-55 when the box revealed that they were doing 139 MPH. The only real crime here is that the kids survived...
dougbdlAug 7, 2006
I have heard the legal argument that the owner of the car owns the box, and by extension the data.
izzie2Aug 8, 2006
They were doing it in Arizona in 1990. So cameras at every red light are just for traffic flow data?Puhleese
himselfAug 8, 2006
there's already software to roll back odometers. How far off are tools to munge the other data? ;)
boycottprogressAug 12, 2006
NEVER, EVER USE PROGRESSIVE! I believe, Progressive inc. does a bait and switch to their loyal customers when they change addresses! YOU BE THE JUDGE! Timeline:Jan 10, 2006- I move from the Santa Monica area to PasadenaJan 13th- My old Progressive policy EXPIRES for $620 every 6 monthsJan 14th- 2:32 pm- I log onto Progressive Direct and change my addressJan 14th- 4:30 pm- I log back into Progressive, IT SHOWS MY NEW ADDRESS and that 6 months of coverage will be $620Jan 14th- 4:35pm- I pay $620 online and receive confirmation of payment.Feb 10th- I recieve a bill for and ADDITIONAL $220 due to my change of address. I call to inform them that my change of address happened 2 hours BEFORE I paid for my new policy. They tell me that a change of address can take up to 3 days and that I must pay the new amount or pay a $50 cancelation penalty.Remember, I made this change AFTER my old policy had expired and had NO obligation to renew with them. I could have logged in an a new customer and gotten an instant quote for the correct amount but as, an existing customer it takes up to 3 days to get an accurate rate???? They are able to give immediate quotes for non-customers but 2 hours to update my rate as loyal customer was insufficient???? At no time, before I paid, did their website tell me there was a rate change. When I went to pay, their site could have shown me the updated rate, said they were unable to give me a current rate or told me my that the rate shown could change due to my recent address change, but it didn't. I feel that this deception must be intentional because changing your address at the end of your policy must be a common occurence! I challenge any representative of Progressive inc. to adequately dispute these claims!STAY AWAY----STAY AWAY----STAY-AWAY!!!Sincerely,A. DLC
joebloosoAug 21, 2006
Sorry for chiming in late here, but I came across this page and I found it quite frightening.One poster wrote that the government would never pass a law that made it a crime to tamper with or remove the black box.Wow. Sorry, but I've got to say that that opinion is scary and naive. They just passed a law that forces you to provide ID and get logged in a DB if you buy Claritin D. Not only will they pass one, they'll pass one soon. It will be passed under the guise of "protecting" us. You name it from what. Terrorists. Motorists. Gestaltists. Yourself. What's the difference, really? Once they have you believing that you need the government to protect you, you are voluntarily taking the medication anyway.What always fascinates me about the folks who are whole hog behind this kind of surveillance law is that they never seem to see where it's going.Is "1984" still required reading in High School?There is a spectrum. On one end is anarchy and no government control of anything. On the other is every one of us wearing a trackable radio anklet that will ensure that any criminal activity is immediately noted and ended by the ever protective government.I have not yet met one of the "whole hog" "yes more laws more govt control" types who thinks that everyone wearing an ankle bracelet is a good idea, but we are rapidly moving toward that end of the spectrum.Black boxes in cars are just one more step.To the people who think that they are the "safe" drivers, do you always remain under the speed limit? Are are the people going faster than you just stupider than you?So when you get in an accident in a 25 zone and you're going 28 and paying attention and the other guy was going 45 and reading, do you think the Ins Comps will just give you the money and let you walk away? Oh no. You'll be found "comparatively negligent" and your damages will be watered down by a somewhat arbitrary amount.What it comes down to, in my opinion, has nothing to do with cars. It has everything to do with how much you want govt in your life.You want to be safe? Real safe? I can make you so very safe.Bracelets, cameras, DNA screening, retinal ID. Everyone will be so safe.The question isn't how safe you want to be.The question is, how free do you want to be.Sure, with mandatory black boxes we will all be a bit safer.And we will all be a bit less free.