salon.com — The excuse that Obama's support for the FISA bill is politically shrewd is neither a defense of what he did nor a reason to refrain from loudly criticizing him for it. Beyond that, this attitude that we should uncritically support Obama in everything he does and refrain from criticizing him is unhealthy in the extreme.
Jun 21, 2008 View in Crawl 4
stevanoskiJun 21, 2008
Obama is black, a Marxist and an Islamic Manchurian candidate (after all we knew eventually all those petro dollars had to buy one sleeper into the top position at some point), so he deserves our unwavering support.
mrxfromplanetxJun 22, 2008
I should say it is all silly except for the party about him being black, but that doesn't have a damn thing to do with anything--except maybe people gave him more support because he's black.I originally thought that since he's black maybe he would look out for the poor more. Being a community organizer from Chicago, I had some hope for him--for a while.
actorboyJun 22, 2008
How long is this guy going to be allowed to post idiotic smears before enough people block him so his Digg account is suspended?
actorboyJun 22, 2008
Yeah, see, there's a problem there. The way to fight to strip telecom immunity is to say "take out the immunity part or I won't vote for it," not, "I'll vote for it no matter the outcome." I'm a hardcore Obama supporter, but this pisses me off.I think every Obama supporter who disagrees with his position on this should Digg this story up. Trying to bury it only feeds the problem. It needs a light shown on it everywhere so he is made well-aware that he is not supported in this.
georgemason01Jun 22, 2008
Yes we can...shred the Bill of RIghts.
Closed AccountJun 22, 2008
Oh it's quite possible that ultimately Obama will vote against it. AFTER ASSURING ITS PASSAGE behind the scenes.The facts:1. Obama is the party leader.<a class="user" href="http://washingtonindependent.com/view/the-new-part">http://washingtonindependent.com/view/the-new-part</a> ...2. This legislation would not have been possible without his support."So I support the compromise, but do so with a firm pledge that as President, I will carefully monitor the program, review the report by the Inspectors General, and work with the Congress to take any additional steps I deem necessary to protect the lives – and the liberty – of the American people.”3. he has no actual intent to get immunity out of the bill"I think we do a grave disservice if we try to convince people that Obama is really going to work to get amnesty out of the bill. Reid is already saying it's just theater -- they know it's going to fail -- it's just a way, Reid said, to let people "express themselves." It's all designed to let Obama say, once he votes for this bill: "Well, I tried to get amnesty out." He's going to vote for amnesty -- and his statement today seals the fate of this bill. Why sugar coat that?"4. Retroactive Immunity is illegal and UNCONSTITUTIONAL being ex-post facto:<a class="user" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_One_of_the_Un">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_One_of_the_Un</a> ...5. Obama was a professor of constitutional law. He knows this:<a class="user" href="http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/253391">http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/253391</a> ...6 Apart from the Immunity aspect the bill itself is UNCONSTITUTIONAL:H.R. 6304 permits the government to conduct mass, untargeted surveillance of all communications coming into and out of the United States, without any individualized review, and without any finding of wrongdoing. The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA Court) only reviews general procedures for targeting and minimizing the use of information that is collected. The court may not know who, what or where will actually be tapped. H.R. 6304 further trivializes court review by explicitly permitting the government to continue surveillance programs even if the application is denied by the court during the appeals process.<a class="user" href="http://www.aclu.org/safefree/spying/35750prs200806">http://www.aclu.org/safefree/spying/35750prs200806</a> ...7. The way in which the bill was introduced has been designed to minimize public comment or opposition. Obama has not objected to this:"The 293-129 vote came just 24 hours after the compromise bill was released on Thursday. "<a class="user" href="http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=4595">http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=4595</a> ...Each representative was given 1.5 minutes to speak.Couldn't find a source for this but I was watching cspan.The Senate fasttracked the bill by placing it on it's agenda without objection or hold BY ANY MEMBER:"Mr. REID. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that when H.R. 6304 is received from the House, it be placed on the calendar.The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered."<a class="user" href="http://www.access.gpo.gov/index.html">http://www.access.gpo.gov/index.html</a>8.Obama made no public statement prior to the bill's passage. He has stated his support for the bill despite it's unconstitutionality. He has issued weak language about an attempt to remove Amnesty as a sop to his apologists. He has not threatened to fillibuster, block the bills passage, or placed a hold on in order to allow reasonable attempts to remove the language.It is as plain as day that Obama signed off on this well in advance. And that sucks. He was supposed to be better.I had believed in him.But let's look at the Republicans reactions:Senator Christopher "Kit" Bond (R-MO) who led Republicans during negotiations, told The New York Times, "I think the White House got a better deal than even they had hoped to get."and""I’m not here to say that the government is always right, but when the government tells you to do something, I’m sure you would all agree that I think you all recognize that is something you need to do.""
unicornyJun 24, 2008
What an amazing moment in our history: Both major party candidates for President are planning to vote to gut the 4th Amendment. Disgusting. Go Nader!<a class="user" href="http://votenader.org">http://votenader.org</a>
unicornyJun 24, 2008
<a class="user" href="http://votenader.org">http://votenader.org</a>
Closed AccountJun 25, 2008
The principled candidate was elbowed out at the primary stage, in staged caucuses and vote steals. I'm going to have to think long and hard about voting for him, despite my abhorence of everything Republican. Indeed, a vote for Nader, something I've always criticized since Nader started running, is looking appealing now.