" all those other people who never met a Christian developed the same beliefs about morality" Really? If morality was the same for those before Christianity came then Christianity never would have taken hold and prospered in the pagan world. You cannot look back from the standpoint of the post-Christian Enlightenment and assume the deepest values you hold were not the inheritance of the Christian world simply because you have rejected the trappings of Christianity.
Faith in nothing is uttery irrelevantAnd beliefs based on blind faith are utterly irrelevant. You can believe that cows came from outer space, that aliens created the universe, that people reincarnate into other life forms after death, or that a half-man, half god was sent by his father (and himself) to die for threee days and return to a place called "heaven"...You can believe ANY of these propositions but your believing them does NOT make them true or real. So it is wild conjecture at BEST.To say we have to believe in "god" because we NEED "meaning" in our lives is ludicrous. If this were the case, then we would have to believe in every single figment of mankind's collective imagination, such as Santa or the Toothfairy to give us purpose.
It may be some time before the United States starts putting reason ahead of superstition. You're finding yourself victim of the "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" fallacy. Just because there is religious fervor in poverty-ridden countries doesn't mean that you end up with religious fervor because of poverty. The US is one of the most fervently religious nations in the world, and yet also one of the wealthiest.
Religious fanatics here? Doesn't register there?Hold on one second. Religious fanaticism, as one of just many flavors of fanaticism, is a huge problem the world over. The US. The UK. Pretty much everywhere. Remember 9/11? How about 7/7?The problem is that fanatics, from mere evangelists to full-blown terrorists, are completely determined to impede the progress of personal freedom. Whether it's suppressing rights to have an abortion or blowing up infidels, religious fanaticism is an issue on everyone's plate.It is an issue. It's not THE issue. But any issue in which your freedom of life or liberty is at stake is most certainly something to be seriously considered, no matter if you're in "Enlightened" Europe, the US, or Afghanistan.
Hmmm, it'd be interesting to see what would qualify as "evidence" to you. Do any of the New Testament documents count as evidence? Matthew and John (his disciples and eyewitness accounts).
chillmandanDec 12, 2007
I would expect some sort of educated discourse.
avengingturnipDec 13, 2007
" all those other people who never met a Christian developed the same beliefs about morality" Really? If morality was the same for those before Christianity came then Christianity never would have taken hold and prospered in the pagan world. You cannot look back from the standpoint of the post-Christian Enlightenment and assume the deepest values you hold were not the inheritance of the Christian world simply because you have rejected the trappings of Christianity.
Closed AccountDec 16, 2007
Faith in nothing is uttery irrelevantAnd beliefs based on blind faith are utterly irrelevant. You can believe that cows came from outer space, that aliens created the universe, that people reincarnate into other life forms after death, or that a half-man, half god was sent by his father (and himself) to die for threee days and return to a place called "heaven"...You can believe ANY of these propositions but your believing them does NOT make them true or real. So it is wild conjecture at BEST.To say we have to believe in "god" because we NEED "meaning" in our lives is ludicrous. If this were the case, then we would have to believe in every single figment of mankind's collective imagination, such as Santa or the Toothfairy to give us purpose.
Closed AccountDec 17, 2007
It was a good effort.
irightthebookDec 24, 2007
It may be some time before the United States starts putting reason ahead of superstition. You're finding yourself victim of the "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" fallacy. Just because there is religious fervor in poverty-ridden countries doesn't mean that you end up with religious fervor because of poverty. The US is one of the most fervently religious nations in the world, and yet also one of the wealthiest.
irightthebookDec 24, 2007
Religious fanatics here? Doesn't register there?Hold on one second. Religious fanaticism, as one of just many flavors of fanaticism, is a huge problem the world over. The US. The UK. Pretty much everywhere. Remember 9/11? How about 7/7?The problem is that fanatics, from mere evangelists to full-blown terrorists, are completely determined to impede the progress of personal freedom. Whether it's suppressing rights to have an abortion or blowing up infidels, religious fanaticism is an issue on everyone's plate.It is an issue. It's not THE issue. But any issue in which your freedom of life or liberty is at stake is most certainly something to be seriously considered, no matter if you're in "Enlightened" Europe, the US, or Afghanistan.
aegiscDec 25, 2007
Hmmm, it'd be interesting to see what would qualify as "evidence" to you. Do any of the New Testament documents count as evidence? Matthew and John (his disciples and eyewitness accounts).