time.com— The White House is devoting $4 billion to turning around America's worst schools. Will these extreme makeovers work?
Feb 14, 2010View in Crawl 4
"Scandinavians who are exceptional in many ways (e.g. strong tradition of technical excellence, very organized people)""They haven't had a huge inner city problem because they don't have a large black minority, that has come to grow ever more dependent on the welfare programs the government offers."You are nothing short than racist, a white-supremacist. There is *nothing* about black people that makes them inferior. The problems lie in the institutional racism and lack of help for the poor in this country. You've also don't realize that the welfare system in the US was never very large, it was never at a scale like it is in Scandinavian countries, or Germany, Italy, or France. Also, since the 80's, the welfare system has been demolished, with social indicators (like illegitimacy and crime) trending exactly with the decline of welfare. The last time a dime of federal money was spent on public housing was in the 90's, the AFDC has been destroyed, and so on. What welfare exists today is just a whithered and underfunded skeleton."Incarceration rates for blacks are 10X greater today than in pre-civil-rights era 1960."You need to take into account the "War on Drugs" which is more of a war against minorities and the poor. Both whites and blacks use drugs at virtually the same rate, but there are *far* more black people in prison from drug offences than there are white people- this is what is called institutional racism. Also, if you take into account the fact that the average black person in America is poorer than the average white person, you'd see that they have similar crime rates, and what differences are left could be accounted by institutional racism as I noted.
The success of these proactive students may then encourage future average students to increase their efforts after seeing the potential success of working hard. Since parents of s**tty areas don't give a s**t about their children, and probably don't even want them, the only way to instill some sort of initiative is through example. I see this as a viable way of doing that. Unfortunately like I said before, the money will be spent on a useless computer lab where students will go to play games and check facebook.
Article 23 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:"(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment. (2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work. (3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection. (4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests."Besides that, I think its common sense, a sense of decency and basic morality that would compel anyone to support a right to job security for all.
---Yes, that story about the New York Public Schools and the rubber rooms is true, but it doesn't have much to do with the general discussion.---It shows how absolutely impractical it is to rely on a union dominated education system to create a competitive environment where teachers have an incentive to perform well and are actually accountable to the public that pays their salaries. Human nature is to take advantage of power. When teachers are in a powerful union, they use that to give themselves ever greater benefits, including at those times when it comes at the expense of the tax payer and students.---Article 23 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:"(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment--f**k the UN declaration. You can give it legitimacy, but other people don't have to.You can't have a right to job security. Someone has to pay your salary, and that person has a right to hire any one they want.
---What you think about the UDHR is irrelevant, the US govt. signed to it in 1948, obligating the US to follow it.---I don't give a s**t if some US politician signed it, it has no legitimacy in my eyes. ---The education system isn't "dominated" by the union, rather the union works together with local and state governments.---You're shamelessly defending the influence of teachers' unions. They are a massive problem, and yes, they dominate public education in many states. They are the ones with the power over the politicians, not vice versa.---Also, there is no reason teachers shouldn't be able to get a decent wage and benefits.---They should, if consumers are willing to pay for them. They shouldn't be able to get great wages and benefits by exerting political pressure on politicians to tax people. I believe people should be free. Your ideology tries to rationalize minimizing the liberty of other people, so that you can get what you want.--Unions help the teachers, the problem is that politicians refuse to enforce sensible tax raises on the rich since it is the rich who fund politicians in our sad state.---Your whole goal for society relies on taxing the successful. That's a pretty weak and pathetic ideology. To want the rich to pay for the teachers' wages and benefits is extremely immoral towards the rich and selfish. Eventually, the rich will leave the country, and all you'll be left with is selfish lazy useless people who want other people to pay their benefits.
spartan777Feb 15, 2010
"Scandinavians who are exceptional in many ways (e.g. strong tradition of technical excellence, very organized people)""They haven't had a huge inner city problem because they don't have a large black minority, that has come to grow ever more dependent on the welfare programs the government offers."You are nothing short than racist, a white-supremacist. There is *nothing* about black people that makes them inferior. The problems lie in the institutional racism and lack of help for the poor in this country. You've also don't realize that the welfare system in the US was never very large, it was never at a scale like it is in Scandinavian countries, or Germany, Italy, or France. Also, since the 80's, the welfare system has been demolished, with social indicators (like illegitimacy and crime) trending exactly with the decline of welfare. The last time a dime of federal money was spent on public housing was in the 90's, the AFDC has been destroyed, and so on. What welfare exists today is just a whithered and underfunded skeleton."Incarceration rates for blacks are 10X greater today than in pre-civil-rights era 1960."You need to take into account the "War on Drugs" which is more of a war against minorities and the poor. Both whites and blacks use drugs at virtually the same rate, but there are *far* more black people in prison from drug offences than there are white people- this is what is called institutional racism. Also, if you take into account the fact that the average black person in America is poorer than the average white person, you'd see that they have similar crime rates, and what differences are left could be accounted by institutional racism as I noted.
1b2aFeb 15, 2010
The success of these proactive students may then encourage future average students to increase their efforts after seeing the potential success of working hard. Since parents of s**tty areas don't give a s**t about their children, and probably don't even want them, the only way to instill some sort of initiative is through example. I see this as a viable way of doing that. Unfortunately like I said before, the money will be spent on a useless computer lab where students will go to play games and check facebook.
spartan777Feb 15, 2010
Article 23 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:"(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment. (2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work. (3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection. (4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests."Besides that, I think its common sense, a sense of decency and basic morality that would compel anyone to support a right to job security for all.
thecoolestguyFeb 16, 2010
---Yes, that story about the New York Public Schools and the rubber rooms is true, but it doesn't have much to do with the general discussion.---It shows how absolutely impractical it is to rely on a union dominated education system to create a competitive environment where teachers have an incentive to perform well and are actually accountable to the public that pays their salaries. Human nature is to take advantage of power. When teachers are in a powerful union, they use that to give themselves ever greater benefits, including at those times when it comes at the expense of the tax payer and students.---Article 23 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:"(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment--f**k the UN declaration. You can give it legitimacy, but other people don't have to.You can't have a right to job security. Someone has to pay your salary, and that person has a right to hire any one they want.
thecoolestguyFeb 17, 2010
---What you think about the UDHR is irrelevant, the US govt. signed to it in 1948, obligating the US to follow it.---I don't give a s**t if some US politician signed it, it has no legitimacy in my eyes. ---The education system isn't "dominated" by the union, rather the union works together with local and state governments.---You're shamelessly defending the influence of teachers' unions. They are a massive problem, and yes, they dominate public education in many states. They are the ones with the power over the politicians, not vice versa.---Also, there is no reason teachers shouldn't be able to get a decent wage and benefits.---They should, if consumers are willing to pay for them. They shouldn't be able to get great wages and benefits by exerting political pressure on politicians to tax people. I believe people should be free. Your ideology tries to rationalize minimizing the liberty of other people, so that you can get what you want.--Unions help the teachers, the problem is that politicians refuse to enforce sensible tax raises on the rich since it is the rich who fund politicians in our sad state.---Your whole goal for society relies on taxing the successful. That's a pretty weak and pathetic ideology. To want the rich to pay for the teachers' wages and benefits is extremely immoral towards the rich and selfish. Eventually, the rich will leave the country, and all you'll be left with is selfish lazy useless people who want other people to pay their benefits.
kasha34Feb 21, 2010
No, that's more bureaucracy. Just implement competition with vouchers. Let parents decide which school does the best job for the money.
kasha34Feb 21, 2010
Encouraged? It's DIS couraged!