abc.net.au— Police said more than 1 million people rallied in Istanbul on Sunday in defense of Turkey's secular system, to keep religion (Islam, in this case) out of politics. If only the US would do such a thing.
Apr 29, 2007View in Crawl 4
@ johnnymasehahahaha I can't believe I'm being lectured by an ignorant 'American' about my own country. Let me try it as well then:George Bush has been the best American President ever. He is even better than that sorry ass Abraham Lincoln guy. George Bush 'advanced' America in the world stage, all the other world leaders absolutely adore him and pray to Lord to be like him one day. America is now loved by everybody, except a minority of towelheaded, brown skinned, Mozlems (sic). He has defended his country against all the evil people and he has done all this for good of American people - not for personal gain as some bad people say. I also fully agree with the Patriot Act. Afterall, freedom is not free. And ALL American people love their president and happy to be governed by him - afterall he was elected by the majority. (The evil Democrats tried to steal the Presidency but failed.)I agree with you it actually feels kinda nice. Should try it more.
Christians and Catholics are taking over the world; Democracy has been replaced with Idiocracy. Can you imagine an entire world believing in, and worshipping the Easter Bunny, and forcing their kids to read and memorize "The Book of Leo the Lop" or "Bunnicula 3:16". I went to church again for christmas just for kicks after 10 years of not going and I was seriously freaked out. The priest walks around with a giant ice-cream cone on his head, he flicks the smell of hickory smoke at people on his way by, you've gotta eat a flavorless ritz cracker and "just pretend" it's the Easter Bunnys body and drink wine from the same disgusting cup everyone else is drinking from so you get mildly intoxicated and suddenly feel the Power of Bugs Bunny compel you. Everyone sits, stands, kneels and kisses ass whenever the chime tells them to and they wander down the hall like a bunch of mental patients who dream of Chocolate Covered Cadbury Eggs falling out of the shorts of their beloved saviour. Actually people I know who go there think they can sin all week and then be cleansed and born again every sunday, what a bunch of winners. Anyway I'm sure if there WAS such thing as an Old Geezer up in the sky, he'd prefer people who happen to be atheists but are just friendly, open-minded and kind and caring for others and the planet RATHER than some redneck jerk who goes to church on sundays, gets into brawls on mondays, steals from his neighbours on tuesdays, touches women inappropriately on wednesdays, drinks and drives on thursdays, gets into bloody brawls on fridays, and then goes hunting for moose on saturdays. What are your thoughts Oh Massive Overseer And Judger Of All? Ta hell with rednecks,Right? You ARE infinitely wise, aren't you?Peace to all - may rednecks be suddenly curtained from their ridiculous act!Please, Digg my Stories: "David Suzuki for Prime Minister of Canada", "Skyscraper Greenhouses" and "Free Energy Machine has been Confirmed By Scientists and Patent Agents" - Thanks
@stroteeI agree...I'm not advocating freedom from religion. However, I am saying that there is an issue when one of the major modivations in a large decision becomes based on religion rather than on reason. If religion becomes a dominate factor in large decisions, anyone could pull the "god card" and not need to be accountable for their decisions.
i don't think anyone's claiming to be a martyr or a saint, jlhoben. just because someone's a christian doesn't mean that they'll put their hair up so it'll be easier to find the decapitation cutting mark.
There is no plan to implement sharia law in Turkey. The military in Turkey is only concerned about one thing and that is maintenence of their power. Instability in Turkey guarantees that power. The fact Turkey is working to gain entry into the EU, which stipulates the military should not have control over politics, scares the military as well. The EU is against a coup within Turkey. The US is also against a coup. Both the EU and US want the democratically elected leaders allowed to run the country. If anything, what the military is doing is going against a democratically elected officials. The party was elected by the people under a democractic system. They have also been very succesful in improving things over the past 5 years, within the EU negotiations, privatization and economically. The previously elected gov'ts had failed in many regards. This party got one of the higher percentage of votes in recent history. They are the most popular party in Turkey by a wide margin. The 2nd most popular party is the CHP and they are have only about 12-15% of the popular vote, while the AKP have aroudn 25-30% of the popular vote. Secularism is great, but the military wont give any chance to a party that has practicing officials and that goes against the ideals of a democracy. If they try to alter the constitution, by all means, make a fuss, but the Turkish military is very trigger happy when it comes to coups and each time it takes the country back economically due to instability. The AKP has done alot to improve the country since they were elected, if there is a coup, all that progress made will be in vain, as the market will suffer. The military is there to protect the nation, not interfere in politics.
How can one justify there being no freedom from religion yet at the same time claim to be persecuted by non-religious folk? Actually the ones being persecuted, if you want to call it that, are atheists and the non-religious who wish to be free from religion. Also, I see some posts actually claiming there is no Separation of Church and State, yet there is:Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. (notice the date)Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.snip: ****Note: Some of the first colonists of the nation for which the Constitution was written had been seeking to escape religious persecution. The constitutions of several of the states prohibited public support of religion. And above all, the many varying sects of Christianity in America required that to be fair to all, there could be preference to none. It would have been disgraceful for anyone to wish to leave the United States because of religious persecution. So they decided it best to keep the government out of religion. ---------------As was true in Europe where you did see the intertwined relationship between church and state. What has arisen from this was one religion being able to use government to persecute those of other faiths. Hence, the Pilgrims left Europe seeking refuge. So why on earth would a religiously pious person of God want to destroy this Separation of Church and State, which is in the Constitution and protects freedom of religion? Maybe because they seek power and dominance over all other religions and faiths? It's treason to subvert the CONSTITUTION and should be seen as the ultimate sin by the truly faithful. I would be very concerned if I were religious for it appears to me that those pushing this agenda to destroy our Separation of Church and State are in fact to be the dominant religion above all others. Those who claim there is no Separation of Church and State in the Constitution are either misinformed or deliberately lying.
@thetaoofbill,Actually it's treason to subvert the Constitution as you suggest Americans do:Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791.Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.Just as there is Freedom of Religion it implies naturally that there already is a Freedom from Religion. One leads to the other, and damn you for trying to shove your religion down everyone's throats. You may be influenced by your religious views, and in turn you are allowed to influence government by participating in voting, etc., just never directly. In other words, you aren't allowed to make your religion the law of the land just as government isn't allowed to meddle with religion or to persecute a religion. What you suggest eads to a theocracy and the destruction of both religion and state.... corruption of both. No real religious person would suggest a thing unless that person were the very "Wolf in Sheeps Clothing" hungering for power.
@picradYeah, i pretty much stopped assuming you had a brain when you said, "George Bush has been the best American President ever. He is even better than that sorry ass Abraham Lincoln guy." Plus "He has defended his country against all the evil people and he has done all this for good of American people - not for personal gain as some bad people say." I now understand that I am trying to argue with dumbest person alive. Oh, and try telling Americans that Lincoln was "sorry ass," i'm sure you'll simultaneously seem intelligent and make a lot of friends. Good luck
I feel you coupDeTat, but look on the bright side. At least the story caught on. It has an important message, especially if diggers read the top comment.
Listen, let us get this straight. Law is a set of values. Religion is only a public set of values and a belief or knowledge of where said values come from. If you remove religion from the picture of law entirely, you will remove all public set of values and everyone will be a law unto themself, thus causing any law on paper to effectively not exist...throwing us in a state of caos. We should vote for our values in law. Not to protect others but our own. If we are the vast minority, than our values are likely to not be law...unless the government is so corrupt it can create any law that actually has any value....
markglApr 30, 2007
there is no such thing as separation of church and state. they go together hand in hand.
picradApr 30, 2007
@ johnnymasehahahaha I can't believe I'm being lectured by an ignorant 'American' about my own country. Let me try it as well then:George Bush has been the best American President ever. He is even better than that sorry ass Abraham Lincoln guy. George Bush 'advanced' America in the world stage, all the other world leaders absolutely adore him and pray to Lord to be like him one day. America is now loved by everybody, except a minority of towelheaded, brown skinned, Mozlems (sic). He has defended his country against all the evil people and he has done all this for good of American people - not for personal gain as some bad people say. I also fully agree with the Patriot Act. Afterall, freedom is not free. And ALL American people love their president and happy to be governed by him - afterall he was elected by the majority. (The evil Democrats tried to steal the Presidency but failed.)I agree with you it actually feels kinda nice. Should try it more.
fibreglassfaceApr 30, 2007
Christians and Catholics are taking over the world; Democracy has been replaced with Idiocracy. Can you imagine an entire world believing in, and worshipping the Easter Bunny, and forcing their kids to read and memorize "The Book of Leo the Lop" or "Bunnicula 3:16". I went to church again for christmas just for kicks after 10 years of not going and I was seriously freaked out. The priest walks around with a giant ice-cream cone on his head, he flicks the smell of hickory smoke at people on his way by, you've gotta eat a flavorless ritz cracker and "just pretend" it's the Easter Bunnys body and drink wine from the same disgusting cup everyone else is drinking from so you get mildly intoxicated and suddenly feel the Power of Bugs Bunny compel you. Everyone sits, stands, kneels and kisses ass whenever the chime tells them to and they wander down the hall like a bunch of mental patients who dream of Chocolate Covered Cadbury Eggs falling out of the shorts of their beloved saviour. Actually people I know who go there think they can sin all week and then be cleansed and born again every sunday, what a bunch of winners. Anyway I'm sure if there WAS such thing as an Old Geezer up in the sky, he'd prefer people who happen to be atheists but are just friendly, open-minded and kind and caring for others and the planet RATHER than some redneck jerk who goes to church on sundays, gets into brawls on mondays, steals from his neighbours on tuesdays, touches women inappropriately on wednesdays, drinks and drives on thursdays, gets into bloody brawls on fridays, and then goes hunting for moose on saturdays. What are your thoughts Oh Massive Overseer And Judger Of All? Ta hell with rednecks,Right? You ARE infinitely wise, aren't you?Peace to all - may rednecks be suddenly curtained from their ridiculous act!Please, Digg my Stories: "David Suzuki for Prime Minister of Canada", "Skyscraper Greenhouses" and "Free Energy Machine has been Confirmed By Scientists and Patent Agents" - Thanks
snakeoApr 30, 2007
We can't even get 1 million people to demonstrate anything here in the US
lilmooneeApr 30, 2007
@stroteeI agree...I'm not advocating freedom from religion. However, I am saying that there is an issue when one of the major modivations in a large decision becomes based on religion rather than on reason. If religion becomes a dominate factor in large decisions, anyone could pull the "god card" and not need to be accountable for their decisions.
ultrastoogeApr 30, 2007
So, are you saying that atheists are without morals? You speak like a true KKKristian :)
pawchikapawpawMay 1, 2007
i don't think anyone's claiming to be a martyr or a saint, jlhoben. just because someone's a christian doesn't mean that they'll put their hair up so it'll be easier to find the decapitation cutting mark.
jerky1312May 1, 2007
There is no plan to implement sharia law in Turkey. The military in Turkey is only concerned about one thing and that is maintenence of their power. Instability in Turkey guarantees that power. The fact Turkey is working to gain entry into the EU, which stipulates the military should not have control over politics, scares the military as well. The EU is against a coup within Turkey. The US is also against a coup. Both the EU and US want the democratically elected leaders allowed to run the country. If anything, what the military is doing is going against a democratically elected officials. The party was elected by the people under a democractic system. They have also been very succesful in improving things over the past 5 years, within the EU negotiations, privatization and economically. The previously elected gov'ts had failed in many regards. This party got one of the higher percentage of votes in recent history. They are the most popular party in Turkey by a wide margin. The 2nd most popular party is the CHP and they are have only about 12-15% of the popular vote, while the AKP have aroudn 25-30% of the popular vote. Secularism is great, but the military wont give any chance to a party that has practicing officials and that goes against the ideals of a democracy. If they try to alter the constitution, by all means, make a fuss, but the Turkish military is very trigger happy when it comes to coups and each time it takes the country back economically due to instability. The AKP has done alot to improve the country since they were elected, if there is a coup, all that progress made will be in vain, as the market will suffer. The military is there to protect the nation, not interfere in politics.
stepnw1fMay 2, 2007
How can one justify there being no freedom from religion yet at the same time claim to be persecuted by non-religious folk? Actually the ones being persecuted, if you want to call it that, are atheists and the non-religious who wish to be free from religion. Also, I see some posts actually claiming there is no Separation of Church and State, yet there is:Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. (notice the date)Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.snip: ****Note: Some of the first colonists of the nation for which the Constitution was written had been seeking to escape religious persecution. The constitutions of several of the states prohibited public support of religion. And above all, the many varying sects of Christianity in America required that to be fair to all, there could be preference to none. It would have been disgraceful for anyone to wish to leave the United States because of religious persecution. So they decided it best to keep the government out of religion. ---------------As was true in Europe where you did see the intertwined relationship between church and state. What has arisen from this was one religion being able to use government to persecute those of other faiths. Hence, the Pilgrims left Europe seeking refuge. So why on earth would a religiously pious person of God want to destroy this Separation of Church and State, which is in the Constitution and protects freedom of religion? Maybe because they seek power and dominance over all other religions and faiths? It's treason to subvert the CONSTITUTION and should be seen as the ultimate sin by the truly faithful. I would be very concerned if I were religious for it appears to me that those pushing this agenda to destroy our Separation of Church and State are in fact to be the dominant religion above all others. Those who claim there is no Separation of Church and State in the Constitution are either misinformed or deliberately lying.
stepnw1fMay 2, 2007
@thetaoofbill,Actually it's treason to subvert the Constitution as you suggest Americans do:Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791.Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.Just as there is Freedom of Religion it implies naturally that there already is a Freedom from Religion. One leads to the other, and damn you for trying to shove your religion down everyone's throats. You may be influenced by your religious views, and in turn you are allowed to influence government by participating in voting, etc., just never directly. In other words, you aren't allowed to make your religion the law of the land just as government isn't allowed to meddle with religion or to persecute a religion. What you suggest eads to a theocracy and the destruction of both religion and state.... corruption of both. No real religious person would suggest a thing unless that person were the very "Wolf in Sheeps Clothing" hungering for power.
johnnymaseJul 11, 2008
@picradYeah, i pretty much stopped assuming you had a brain when you said, "George Bush has been the best American President ever. He is even better than that sorry ass Abraham Lincoln guy." Plus "He has defended his country against all the evil people and he has done all this for good of American people - not for personal gain as some bad people say." I now understand that I am trying to argue with dumbest person alive. Oh, and try telling Americans that Lincoln was "sorry ass," i'm sure you'll simultaneously seem intelligent and make a lot of friends. Good luck
crazysticksDec 31, 2008
I feel you coupDeTat, but look on the bright side. At least the story caught on. It has an important message, especially if diggers read the top comment.
us4constitutionMar 12, 2009
Listen, let us get this straight. Law is a set of values. Religion is only a public set of values and a belief or knowledge of where said values come from. If you remove religion from the picture of law entirely, you will remove all public set of values and everyone will be a law unto themself, thus causing any law on paper to effectively not exist...throwing us in a state of caos. We should vote for our values in law. Not to protect others but our own. If we are the vast minority, than our values are likely to not be law...unless the government is so corrupt it can create any law that actually has any value....