Wow, an honest to god argument for the prolongation of Vietnam, really?58,209 American casualties killed and 303,635 wounded earned us nothing... NOTHING. When would have been enough for you? 100,000 killed and 600,000 wounded?I feel for the Vietnamese who died too (on both sides), but that war was unwindable. The bottom line is that America was sending its sons into a meat grinder, and if the South Vietnamese could not fight for and defend their own side of a civil war even with the massive sacrifices of the American military they likely couldn't win any way.This "cut and run" nonsense is bulls**t
Damn.... I can't even imagine being in that war or in any war. Must have been bat s**t scary.... thinking if you will see tomorrow or not.RIP to all the fallen soldiers and citizens.
@rizzo2008:Last time I checked, the Chinese and the Soviets never had over half a million troops in the country or brutally, savagely carped-bombed, mined, napalmed or poisoned it with deadly chemical agents. The country never became the 16th republic of the USSR. It almost became a Chinese province in the late 70's, but their brave, battle-hardened army defeated those overwhelmingly superior aggressors too. To the them, it wasn't about Communism either - hell, most of NVA and Vietcong soldiers barely even knew who Marx and Lenin were. These people were just sick of being constantly occupied, puppeted and exploited by various racist, imperialist Western powers and wanted freedom and self-determination. They also would have never won this war without the overwhelming popular support, not only in the North, but the South as well.
Not all wars are equal.What gives a death in a war meaning IS NOT VICTORY. The end is not what justifies the means.People die in a war for a cause, and the incentive for America going into Vietnam in the first place (fighting Communism in a round about way) was convoluted and poorly considered. At the end of the day, there simply was no real reason for American soldiers to be there. It's like Iraq now. Why did we go there in the first place? WMDs? Terrorists? None of that s**t turned out to be real, and while the end might turn out okay it came at an extraordinary cost to everyone involved without much real purpose in the meantime.Winning makes justifying death in war seemingly easy. "Oh, he fought to win." But that devalues the actual sacrifice since at the time there was no guarantee of victory. What you should be asking is why that person believed they were there sacrificing their life and whether or not that reason actually makes sense. Most of those who fought in Vietnam had no idea what they were supposed to be accomplishing there (my grandfather included), and that is the true tragedy of the war. While you might have personal reasons for liking the Vietnam war to have turned out differently, that is not justification for sacrificing the lives of hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese people and American draftees who never asked to be a part of that struggle. If you would like to have given your life it would have been your choice to do so, but don't tell me that I or anyone in my family is obligated to die for your cause."Nothing was won by their deaths because people like you have no stomach for conflict."What a bunch of stereotyping bulls**t. All I've said here that Vietnam was doomed from the start because there was no clear purpose or reason for fighting the war from the beginning. The reason that we couldn't win is because we KNEW we were doing the wrong thing by going into Vietnam from the start. We had no business there, so politicians tried to justify it as a "police action." That term came with a bunch of rules placed on soldiers (like my own grandfather) which made it impossible to win. Nothing was won by those deaths because those deaths were for nothing from the start. In Vietnam we did not fight to win or lose. It was just bloody politics, and for that reason my own grandfather told his family the war was unwinnable. He didn't get to see the end and how terribly right he would be proven."You somehow believe that everything will be okay for you, even as the enemy is marching down your street."If there is a threat to my country you had better believe I would die to protect it, but that's not what Vietnam was about. Neither side in Vietnam had any interest in attacking America just like Iraq had no interest in attacking American (let alone the means). People just ratchet up the fear level until they can justify anything. First it was the "Red Scare" that put us in Vietnam and now "Terrorism" has us in Iraq and committing acts of torture. I fully support the defense of our country from any tangible threat, but that means you are going to have to show it to me first hand. If any part of your justification for going to war includes a hypothetical scenario you are on the wrong side. People who speak lightly of sending soldiers off to war do not appreciate the horrors of warfare.
$1200 - plus they had to wait years to get even that - creating homelessness, suicide, divorces, the list could just go on while the military refused to admit the defoilant they were spraying could cause any heath deftects.
plus they had to wait years to get even that creating homelessness, suicide, divorces, the list could just go on while the military refused to admit the defoilant they were spraying could cause any heath deftects. The 1200 settlement is nothing compared to what the causual effects this lie was perpetrated.
plus they had to wait years to get even that creating homelessness, suicide, divorces, the list could just go on while the military refused to admit the defoilant they were spraying could cause any heath deftects. The 1200 settlement is nothing compared to what the causual effects this lie was perpetrated.
speedsteamboatJul 26, 2009
Wow, an honest to god argument for the prolongation of Vietnam, really?58,209 American casualties killed and 303,635 wounded earned us nothing... NOTHING. When would have been enough for you? 100,000 killed and 600,000 wounded?I feel for the Vietnamese who died too (on both sides), but that war was unwindable. The bottom line is that America was sending its sons into a meat grinder, and if the South Vietnamese could not fight for and defend their own side of a civil war even with the massive sacrifices of the American military they likely couldn't win any way.This "cut and run" nonsense is bulls**t
wondertwinsJul 26, 2009
Damn.... I can't even imagine being in that war or in any war. Must have been bat s**t scary.... thinking if you will see tomorrow or not.RIP to all the fallen soldiers and citizens.
babywookieJul 26, 2009
@rizzo2008:Last time I checked, the Chinese and the Soviets never had over half a million troops in the country or brutally, savagely carped-bombed, mined, napalmed or poisoned it with deadly chemical agents. The country never became the 16th republic of the USSR. It almost became a Chinese province in the late 70's, but their brave, battle-hardened army defeated those overwhelmingly superior aggressors too. To the them, it wasn't about Communism either - hell, most of NVA and Vietcong soldiers barely even knew who Marx and Lenin were. These people were just sick of being constantly occupied, puppeted and exploited by various racist, imperialist Western powers and wanted freedom and self-determination. They also would have never won this war without the overwhelming popular support, not only in the North, but the South as well.
butterbuddhaJul 26, 2009
I like picture 9, I didn't realize that the F-102 saw combat...
speedsteamboatJul 28, 2009
Not all wars are equal.What gives a death in a war meaning IS NOT VICTORY. The end is not what justifies the means.People die in a war for a cause, and the incentive for America going into Vietnam in the first place (fighting Communism in a round about way) was convoluted and poorly considered. At the end of the day, there simply was no real reason for American soldiers to be there. It's like Iraq now. Why did we go there in the first place? WMDs? Terrorists? None of that s**t turned out to be real, and while the end might turn out okay it came at an extraordinary cost to everyone involved without much real purpose in the meantime.Winning makes justifying death in war seemingly easy. "Oh, he fought to win." But that devalues the actual sacrifice since at the time there was no guarantee of victory. What you should be asking is why that person believed they were there sacrificing their life and whether or not that reason actually makes sense. Most of those who fought in Vietnam had no idea what they were supposed to be accomplishing there (my grandfather included), and that is the true tragedy of the war. While you might have personal reasons for liking the Vietnam war to have turned out differently, that is not justification for sacrificing the lives of hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese people and American draftees who never asked to be a part of that struggle. If you would like to have given your life it would have been your choice to do so, but don't tell me that I or anyone in my family is obligated to die for your cause."Nothing was won by their deaths because people like you have no stomach for conflict."What a bunch of stereotyping bulls**t. All I've said here that Vietnam was doomed from the start because there was no clear purpose or reason for fighting the war from the beginning. The reason that we couldn't win is because we KNEW we were doing the wrong thing by going into Vietnam from the start. We had no business there, so politicians tried to justify it as a "police action." That term came with a bunch of rules placed on soldiers (like my own grandfather) which made it impossible to win. Nothing was won by those deaths because those deaths were for nothing from the start. In Vietnam we did not fight to win or lose. It was just bloody politics, and for that reason my own grandfather told his family the war was unwinnable. He didn't get to see the end and how terribly right he would be proven."You somehow believe that everything will be okay for you, even as the enemy is marching down your street."If there is a threat to my country you had better believe I would die to protect it, but that's not what Vietnam was about. Neither side in Vietnam had any interest in attacking America just like Iraq had no interest in attacking American (let alone the means). People just ratchet up the fear level until they can justify anything. First it was the "Red Scare" that put us in Vietnam and now "Terrorism" has us in Iraq and committing acts of torture. I fully support the defense of our country from any tangible threat, but that means you are going to have to show it to me first hand. If any part of your justification for going to war includes a hypothetical scenario you are on the wrong side. People who speak lightly of sending soldiers off to war do not appreciate the horrors of warfare.
dadeo54Sep 6, 2009
$1200 - plus they had to wait years to get even that - creating homelessness, suicide, divorces, the list could just go on while the military refused to admit the defoilant they were spraying could cause any heath deftects.
dadeo54Sep 6, 2009
plus they had to wait years to get even that creating homelessness, suicide, divorces, the list could just go on while the military refused to admit the defoilant they were spraying could cause any heath deftects. The 1200 settlement is nothing compared to what the causual effects this lie was perpetrated.
dadeo54Sep 6, 2009
plus they had to wait years to get even that creating homelessness, suicide, divorces, the list could just go on while the military refused to admit the defoilant they were spraying could cause any heath deftects. The 1200 settlement is nothing compared to what the causual effects this lie was perpetrated.