Users who Dugg This
Janine Wallace
4729 Followers
mysticdave
4407 Followers
NewsMeBack
6467 Followers
Comgen & Dr. Socks' love child
12544 Followers





CalTjaderJan 9, 2012
Very poorly written.
h8f8kesJan 10, 2012
It's progressive spam. What did you expect?
ghengiskhan1Jan 10, 2012
Think of monkeys and type writers.
drmangrumJan 10, 2012
Poorly written, the author needs to stop writing with a thesaurus, and he needs to learn more about libertarianism. He's woefully off the mark in quite a few places. Of course, seeing as how this guy is obviously a Marxist, it's not surprising.
tiddilywinkJan 25, 2012
The author is lumping all libertarians in one group rather than defining a left and right...more uniformed than poorly written.
nickymouseJan 9, 2012
I think one of the problems in the US is a majority of Americans don't care about freedom and liberty. They are willing to trade freedom and liberty for personal security in a split second. The right is willing to give up personal freedoms in the name of national security, the left is willing to give up financial and personal freedoms for more government.
Libertarianism provides maximum amount freedom for every individual. Government is still critical, but limited in scope and power.
FPSmotoJan 10, 2012
I agree to a point. But it's not their fault. They were raised on ideas that fear can drive people to do crazy s**t.
sheopleherderJan 9, 2012
What a waste of time. I was going to write a line by line argument explaining the faulty thinking behind this, but seriously if you read even the first part you realize that this author has not read a thing about real the real ideals behind Libertarianism or Ron Paul. Oh well I'm not going to help him/her/it get unique visits to their hit piece. But if anyone wants to argue 1 or 2 of the points with me, please feel free to comment.
retardIQ70Jan 9, 2012
Another politicususa contributor misses the point.
FTA: "As a former long-haired pot-smoking Libertarian, I can attest that libertarianism attracts—not only pot-smokers, but—starry eyed idealists, believers in a Lennonesque live-and-let-live utopia tantalizingly within reach if only they could manage to convince all of humanity to abruptly and simultaneously stop being assh**es."
Well I guess most people would label me a libertarian, and yet I've never smoked one joint, not one drop of alcohol has passed my lips. The author hear assumes because he's stupid and was once a libertarian, that therefor all libertarians must be, and are just awaiting the same epiphany he has had. That's smug to say the least.
Furthermore the author goes onto write:
"Indeed, any good libertarian has a compendium of reductio ad absurdum and slippery slope fallacies and thought-terminating clichés at the ready for any occasion, and can recite them on cue with the polished obduracy of a telephone solicitor."
And then in the very next paragraph:
"Libertarianism is like liquor. A little bit warms your c**kles, but too much impairs your judgment. Ron Paul is driving nuclear waste through a school zone with a jug of libertarian hooch under his belt. "
I submit that maybe if the author had spent more time studying libertarian philosophy and less time smoking weed, he might have a better understanding of that philosophy.
Example 1:
"This is a critical concept for many Republicans, as well. For instance, a health insurance mandate under ObamaCare is an audacious arrogation of our rights under God, but the same mandate under RomneyCare is just another experiment in one of fifty vibrant laboratories of democracy. Cigna is just making an honest buck writing checks for aspirins and bedpans. If you don’t like them, well then, just change jobs. See how easy?"
Dead wrong. Libertarians want individualized healthcare, where each individual is free to choose his provider, thus taking responsibility from the employer, increasing marketplace competition and allowing greater risk management decisions. Libertarians are wholly opposed to employer provided healthcare.
Example 2:
"Can’t get seated at a restaurant because you’re black? Find another restaurant. Can’t rent an apartment because your spouse is the same sex? Keep looking. Didn’t get hired because you’re a Muslim? Send out more résumés, and if you get the interview, for God’s sake, leave the prayer rug at home. Libertarians have all the answers, don’t they? And they love African-Americans, yes they do. But that restaurant owner reserves the right to refuse service to anyone, remember?"
Libertarianism values individuality, but also encourages individual response to group stimulus. Would you eat at a restaurant that had a sign out front reading whites only? Of course you wouldn't, because we as a group don't tolerate such things anymore. But the proprietor is free to make that decision and inevitably go out of business, hopefully learning a lesson.Individuality means having personal responsibility, to responds when you see something you don't like. But that response shouldn't be to make laws that simply hide the problem. As the authors on politicususa love to quote "[If we say nothing, we're just as guilty]". Well simply hiding the problems isn't saying something, it's intellectual cowardice.
The Libertarian philosophy is anathema to those who fear responsibility.
CrescentSkies_2Jan 9, 2012
I'll digg this just for that opening picture.
seltaeb4Jan 9, 2012
It perfectly encapsulates the kind of snotty, smart-ass sophistry for which Libertarians are so famous.
dustinthewind2Jan 9, 2012
I think it perfectly encapsulates what most Americans feel about our government today.
peppermintpigJan 9, 2012
It tears away the facade quite well. If anybody but the government takes money from you, then that's considered criminal. A pittance of what the government takes goes into infrastructure or other "services" while most goes into their salaries, or to the federal reserve which otherwise prints new money whenever it wants for whatever it wants. The government provides these things without your consent and suddenly taking that money has a valid justification to you? It's a slippery slope but apparently you only look for the utility or populist authority of an action, not ethics.
wayzupJan 9, 2012
Written by a guy who's other hits include:
*Why I’m Rooting for Newt Gingrich To Be The Republican Nominee
That's enough for me to discount this guy's take on, well, just about anything.
torchednoodleJan 10, 2012
Sure, don't bother actually reading the article about Newt, which is actually laden to the t**s with satire.
Yeah, why would you want to bother reading that at all? Instead you should probably just totally discount his take on, well, just about anything.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
isuzu14bJan 9, 2012
RON PAUL IS NOT ABOUT ABOLISHING GOVERNMENT!!!!
He is about returning to the States the powers that they are supposed to have. Let the States decide if they want to enforce the drug war, abortion rights, education, etc.
Why do people automatically think that everything should be dealt with at the federal level? Smaller government = smaller corruption. That's just the way it works.
mikelistJan 9, 2012
and 50 states doing things at least 40 different ways, with ramifications for out of state commerce and travel, for starters.
bookantJan 10, 2012
"Let the States decide if they want to enforce the drug war, abortion rights, education, etc."
In other words, let 50 little tyranies decide what rights and freedoms citizens of the US do our do not have in their little fiefdoms.
Which is why RON PAUL IS NOT A LIBERTARIAN. NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!!Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
GeorgeTheDemocratJan 10, 2012
So it's better to have just one large tyrany government.
bookantJan 10, 2012
No, it's better not to be a lockstepping fanatic who sees the world in nothing but black and white.
Republicans who like to pretend that they are libertarians have conflated the notion of "libertarianism" with knee-jerk, unthinking, rejection of the Federal in favor of "states rights" every time.* This is not "libertarian." Libertarianism is concerned with the rights and freedoms of the *individual* not the state. Anti-Federalism =/= Libertarianism.
So what is it "better" to do? It's better to stop mindlessly obsessing over what *level* of government is enacting a particular policy, law, etc and evaluate in each case which governmental unit (fed vs state) is in this case trying to *protect* indivual rights is which is trying to encroach on them. An *actual* libertarian would side with the protection of individual rights and against infringement of them - YES, even if that means we're using the power of the Federal government to stop the states from infringing the rights and freedoms of the individual.
---------------
* (The "states rights" argument is also often a bulls**t smokescreen. Take the widespread use of "states rights" arguments by pro-lifers - yes, including Ron Paul. If we take pro-lifers at their word, they honestly believe that abortion is morally equivalent to infanticide, the murder of babies. So do you honestly believe that they really feel that the question of whether or not to ban "infanticide" should be left up to the individual states? Bulls**t. Their goal is to outlaw abortion completely. They just use the "states rights" argument right now because it's useful, because *Federal* protection of abortion rights is the primary obsticle they have to overcome. If Roe V Wade were ever actually overturned, those same people screaming "states rights" today would be pushing hard for a *federal* abortion ban tomorrow.)Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
GeorgeTheDemocratJan 11, 2012
"Libertarianism is concerned with the rights and freedoms of the *individual* not the state. Anti-Federalism =/= Libertarianism."
While Libertarianism is concerned with the rights and freedoms of the *individual* is true, Libertarians are for upholding the constution as well, please read so ye may understand.
http://www.lp.org/platform
bookantJan 11, 2012
I'm not suggesting someone can't hold views from a variety of different "catagories" or schools of thought, we all do. A person might, for example, hold some views that are libertarian and some that are Anti-Federalist.
The real question then becomes - which comes first? Which is your priority? What do you choose if two of those things come into conlfict?
If you are a Libertarian, but also have some Anti-Federalist opinions, you may lean towards "states' rights" some of the time but put individual rights first, even it means using the power of the Federal government to protect them.
If you are an Anti-Federalist with *some* libertarian opinions, you'll chose "states rights" even if means giving the power to the states to infringe on what should be individual freedoms. Ron Paul (and every Republican "libertarian" I've even seen) falls into this catagory.
Take abortion as an example. From the link you just gave me:
"Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration."
This describes the current situation, in which *Federal* case law has determined, based in large part on the noton that a couple of the constitutional amendments include a right to *privacy,* even if it isn't specifically named as such, that abortion is an individual decision and may not be banned by government.
The "states rights" argument of Ron Paul, et. al., on the other hand is that government (in this case state government) SHOULD be allowed to regulate/ban abortion, making it NOT a private matter of individual conscience. They want to remove a protection of individual liberties and replace it with opening the door to government regulation of a matter that they are currently kept out of, just because that protection happens to come at the Federal level. This is the exact *opposite* of the Libertarian position.
GeorgeTheDemocratJan 12, 2012
@bookant, Although Paul is for states rights, i have never heard him say states should be able to decide abortion. Since the Supreme court has already ruled on the matter, it is a moot point to what he or anyone else does think. He can not override the Supreme court, nor can states, if something is guaranteed under the Constitution.
RavenshoodieJan 9, 2012
FTA:
"Libertarians believe that if government and all such collectivist enterprises simply vanished, an ideal world would miraculously arise on the ash heap of the old."
Politicususa fails miserably even with it's most basic description of Libertarianism.
yurmutha412Jan 9, 2012
That had to be one of their least fact oriented, most wind baggy articles to date. Did anyone find an actual fact in that article?
spr0ketJan 9, 2012
I haven't seen anyone refute any of it. Still waiting...
ostracizeJan 9, 2012
You obviously haven't looked. Read some libertarian books and articles.
spr0ketJan 9, 2012
Still waiting...
dualaudiJan 9, 2012
Gee, I guess it's all true.
FrankLuskaJan 10, 2012
@dualaudi, Get off your butt and do your own research.
yurmutha412Jan 9, 2012
"Libertarians believe that if government and all such collectivist enterprises simply vanished, an ideal world would miraculously arise on the ash heap of the old."
That's called anarchy, not libertarianism. Look up libertarianism, or find me one place where Ron Paul asked to abolish government. It's just another lie from your sinkhole of a media outlet. I'm not going to call it a news site. The funny part is you guys make fun of Fox and then read "news" from a site like this.
FrankLuskaJan 10, 2012
Get off your butt and do your own research
austinjameshereJan 8, 2012
Ron Paul has some great ideas on foreign policy and the drug war. He is the only Republican running that doesn't want to invade Iran (and apparently re-invade Iraq if we go off of Rick Perry's comments last night). He's the only Republican running that says what he means, and does what he says. That said, his stance on pretty much everything else would benefit the top 1% of America at the expense of the rest of us. Who needs clean drinking water? Let's get rid of the EPA. Who needs a department of Education... we'll just let kids be home schooled and create a private system where those who can afford it get the best education in the world, and if you can't tough luck... a world where if you can't afford health insurance and you have cancer, let's just hope you can find a nice warm corner in an ally to crawl into and wait it out. I for one want the liberty to live in a society that treats people fairly and with compassion - we wouldn't get that from a Ron Paul administration.
captainaviatorJan 9, 2012
If only there was a level of government below the feds that would take care of education instead... hmm... there's gotta be some kind of system set up.... oh well, i guess that means Ron Paul is a complete idiot...
Do you really think he wants to get rid of public schools?
I admit, at first glance some of his plans are a bit scary to the uninformed. But once you actually look into the details and reasons behind them along with how things would be carried out, they make perfect sense.
austinjameshereJan 9, 2012
See, and I think the devil is in the details. The shift from federal government to states is about one thing - making it easier for corporations to buy off our democracy. Want to drill in the protected wildlife regions of Alaska... without an EPA, you don't have to lobby the entire government, you can save millions by just lobbying the state. I believe give more power to each individual school district, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have federal guidelines.
captainaviatorJan 9, 2012
You seem to be right about how bad that could be for Alaska, although I haven't really red up much about that situation. However, the EPA has gotten just as corrupt as most other parts of the government and they tend to do more harm than good in a lot of cases. Things like passing laws that force us to use certain types of light bulbs are the types of things that shouldn't be undertaken during economic hardships (granted, that example was more Obama's thing). Besides, when it comes to Alaska, you'd think the people living there would make it more difficult for their elected officials to get away with corporate buyouts since it's I don't know, in their own back yards? Although with Palin in charge up there, maybe I should be a little more worried....
As far as federal guidelines for schools are concerned, name one federal guideline put in place for the school system recently that was a good idea.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
austinjameshereJan 9, 2012
There are lots. Requiring teachers to have a college degree is one. I'd just like to say: The Department of Education is the smallest cabinet level department. It employs less than 5,000 people and education in the United States is highly decentralized unlike most other countries (which often rank much higher than we do in education). State and local governments wield an enormous influence over our education system (which I don't see as a bad thing). I know it's in fashion to rail against big government, but I just don't see that in the Department of Education and am completely puzzled by Republican desire to get rid of it. It's completely constitutional under the commerce clause, as is the funding and spending under the tax and spending clause of the constitution. Now I know No Child Left Behind pissed off a lot of people, and it pissed me off too. My mother who is a teacher hated it (and my parents are both Republican god bless their souls). But you can have some federal guidelines without being stupid about it.
moonriderJan 9, 2012
And it has its own SWAT unit, explain to me why the federal Dept, of Education needs a damn SWAT unit! According to the Constitution education is not an enumerated power of the federal government, it was assigned to the "several States".
The so called commerce clause has been stretched so far that it's now a balloon around every action taken in this country. Education was never a part of it, nor was regulating/eliminating/controlling crops in the individual States, nor was regulating commerce within a particular State or in all of them, it was supposed only to cover mediating disputes BETWEEN the States, making certain that commerce was not slowed or stopped by such disputes.
People (including politicians and judges) who advocate such broad (and unconstitutional) use of the commerce clause do not understand the purpose of the Constitution and the reason for specifically enumerating the powers of the federal government. And the phrase "promote the general welfare" was used by its authors to specify the reason the Constitution must limit the powers of government, not to allow the government to do whatever the hell it wants by stating it is "for the general welfare".
austinjameshereJan 9, 2012
The swat team that you refer to was from the office of inspector general: they sometimes work with the department of education in reference to fraud and embezzlement in student loans.
Obviously we disagree about the interpretation of the constitution and I doubt I'll change your mind or you'll change my mind on this thread.
The last thing I'll say and then I'm done with this thread is this...
Getting rid of the Department of Education would get rid of many student loan programs that a very large percentage of this country rely on. Parents who can't afford to pay for their children's college often cosign for their kids so they have access to college - something that is necessary in today's world (or at least some form of post high school education). Now I'm all for reforming the high cost of college and the massive debt students are walking away with after college, but to eliminate these federal programs completely, it would destroy a lot of futures.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
diggduggjoeJan 9, 2012
You imply that centralization would improve scores. However, the most clear indicator of good schools from all around the world is school choice. From the Netherlands (1917) to Korea, school choice makes schools compete. Thus, they work harder and scores are high.
Plus keep in mind the US is MASSIVE compared to many of the countries that are more centralized. Germany is not much larger than an average state in the US. It had up to recent times an extremely homogenous population. What might work in there may not do so well in the US.
devilgoobJan 9, 2012
The Department of Education will be replaced with tests - the easy ones.
You know, those test days. Where all your knowledge is tested, of the past three weeks where teachers try to cram all the lessons into us again?
Where if you have ONE firing neuron, you will pass through it in 20 minutes and test in the 95th percentile probably?
Those will ensure our education.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
johnnysoftwareJan 10, 2012
The Department of Education (ED.gov) has an Inspector General (IG).
The IG goes after people who try to rip off the education system. People try to steal a lot from charter schools, universities, and school districts.
i read a bunch of the summaries and the lion's share seem to be inside jobs by people who betrayed the trust of those charter-toting students, their community, their university, or the education system for a whole city or region.
It's a shocking list of crimes but educational and worth reading once so you get an idea of what is going on.
http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/oig/ireports.html
Next time someone says we don't need any oversight of schools and government should but out of education, show them this rogue's gallery those folks who robbed the till.
Clearly, self oversight is not going to work when you have the head of universities, districts, and charter schools included as some of the robbers.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
diggduggjoeJan 9, 2012
You do not understand that the role of the EPA is actually to legalize some pollution. Sure they can intervene if you dump cyanide into a river, but they get that power by claiming they own every river in America.
The reality is you could sue corporations in the past when you were damaged. However, now you are forced to accept some pollution since up to the level the EPA considers bad, the courts will just laugh at you.
Property rights are the key to environmental protection, since most people have less tolerance for pollution that the EPA which is controlled by congress. Congress is swayed by big polluters money, BTW.
All we need is an impartial court system and the people can guard the environment just fine.
nerysJan 9, 2012
your joking right?
what do you think is easier to buy off? 50 state governments or THOUSANDS OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS
or ONE SINGLE national government?
your joking right? most of today's problems STEM from the fact that they only need to buy off ONE LEVEL of government. Congress.
Most of the PROBLEMS we have today would have been SOLVED if there was NO federal level to "buy off"
with an EPA you don't have to lobby an entire government you only need to lobby enough reps in congress to get your "guy" into the EPA.
DUH. you cry about it being easy but your method IS WHAT MAKES IT EASY.
austinjameshereJan 9, 2012
Thousands of local governments would be easy. I disagree with your logic. The point is that you can zero in on the area you want - and lobby. We've seen the influence of lobbyist. I used Alaska as just one example. If it was just up to the state, they'd have already started drilling in protected wildlife regions years ago. Congress is a mess to get anything passed the way you want. They have trouble just coming up with a budget, or agreeing to extend the debt limit (which should both have been easy decisions). And you think it's easier to get them to pass something controversial. It's not. Especially if you have to get state approval too. States on the other hand, are easier, faster, and cheaper to buy off.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
nerysJan 9, 2012
Then do it LEGALLY. not by unlawful unconstitutional decree.
and I disagree. your example is an extreme exception.
for most things having 50 state options would be better
in fact your alaska is a perfect example. yes we might trash alaska but when the other 49 states saw what happened to alaska they would make damned certain it did not happen in THEIR states.
OR more likely they would have already tried it in "some other" state besides alaska first and alaska would go "NO WAY" we saw what happened in X state we are not doing it here.
you assume a vacuum and you would be wrong.
austinjameshereJan 9, 2012
You can continue to scream that the EPA is illegal and unconstitutional, doesn't make it true. It's completely constitutional, with a long history of court cases to back that up.
As for the let them trash one state so the others see how bad it would be argument is just silly.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
nerysJan 10, 2012
Show me where in the constitution the federal government is empowered to have an EPA.
I await your reply. Don't show me court cases with judges paid by the system wanting it.
Show me "IN" the constitution. Remember its EXPLICIT not IMPLICIT.
I just read all the amendments. I could not find an EPA amendment.
ikorkyiJan 9, 2012
using your logic - which i will not attempt to defend as per its flaws - and including the laws of supply and demand - "buy offs" would just become cheaper if there had to be more. buy off 50 states for a buck each or the fed for $50... different pile, same s**t.
the unsupported statement that corruption is bred due to federal structure is laughable. my own unsupported view is that it's the American people, not the system which fosters it.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
nerysJan 10, 2012
No it would be buy off 50 states for 10 million each or buy off the feds for 50 million.
HUGH difference in numbers in favor of only having to buy off one.
in fact its even worse. its probably cheaper to buy off the feds than to buy off one state cause you only need to buy off ONE or TWO congress critters since the "other" congress critters will go with it on the quid pro quo that "you" go with it when their bribe comes through.
this is factually shown in our own recent history of this last decade alone.
this is how it actuallly works now.
at least with states you have to AT MINIMUM buy off 50 people. 1 each state probably more.
and you have a closer accountability to the people on the state level.
your grasp of history and reality are really impressively flawed.
isuzu14bJan 9, 2012
Or maybe we could just revoke the power that corporations have....
Nah, that would make too much sense.
austinjameshereJan 9, 2012
I'd support that. I'd also support an amendment that says no corporation, union, or organization can donate to political campaigns... treat everyone equal as individuals. This corporations are people crap is ruining our democracy (and it's been ruining it for a long time).
nerysJan 10, 2012
maybe you have a democracy I sure as hell don't want one.
you want to see a nearly pure democracy at work?
Congress.
how's that democracy working for you?
seltaeb4Jan 9, 2012
"some of his plans are a bit scary to the uninformed."
In reality, his plans are downright terrifying to the informed.
miklkitJan 9, 2012
I would not call Paul a Libertarian, but an Anarchist.
kwanijmlJan 10, 2012
Well, that's the ideal, but Paul is just focused on at least disempowering the central government down to the point that the constitution dictates. . . then it will be easier for citizens of the various states to eventually disband their state governments and develop peaceful alternatives to coercive government. . . . it is one step towards giving real anarchy a chance to flourish.
I am impressed that you recognize this ideal in him.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
FrankLuskaJan 11, 2012
I am impressed at such a ridiculous theory you have. Makes no sense what-so-ever.
jhw539Jan 9, 2012
"If only there was a level of government below the feds that would take care of education instead..."
Do you even know what the federal level Department of Education does? It is by far the smallest Cabinet-level department, with about 5,000 employees. The total budget in 2009 (last full year available) was $32 billion, less than 1% of the budget. For comparison, Los Angles - a single city - alone spent $7.3 billion that year.
Localities run the schools and spend the VAST majority of money to do so. So what does the federal Department of Education that Ron Paul wants to abolish actually do?
"establish policy for, administer and coordinate most federal assistance to education, collect data on US schools, and to enforce federal educational laws regarding privacy and civil rights."
THOSE BASTARDS!Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
nerysJan 9, 2012
if its so damned useful why did they have to VIOLATE THE LAW to create it?
the issue is not Department of Education good or bad the issue is ITS ILLEGAL. show me the amendment that says The Federal Government now has the power to operate a department of education. you do realize an amendment is the ONLY way to "ADD" a power to the federal government? you do realize that right?
if there is no amendment its ILLEGAL by definition.
jhw539Jan 9, 2012
"if there is no amendment its ILLEGAL by definition."
The Constitution is VERY VERY explicit that the Supreme Court alone is the final word about what is Constitutional or not. They did this very deliberately to keep the weak minded from being whipped into a mob by dishonest demagogues. And the Supreme Court has no problem with the Department of Education.
Which leaves the question, is nerys merely weak minded, or a dishonest demagogue?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
johnnysoftwareJan 10, 2012
I see no reason why one cannot be both.
nerysJan 10, 2012
The supreme court is illegal lately. the supreme court was never supposed to "interpret" what the constitution says.
anyone who thinks this is TRULY clueless as to reality. if ANY ENTITY could simply "interpret" the constitution you might as well just SHRED IT UP like we have been doing for the last 100 years because you can redefine and interpret it to mean any damned thing you want.
The supreme court was supposed to interpret NEW ISSUES and then "apply" the constitution to them.
NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
The supreme court ESPECIALLY the supreme court is not supposed to VIOLATE the constitution.
bookantJan 9, 2012
It's not a f**king shopping list. It authorizes broad catagories of activity, it doesn't list out each and every department.
But since you seem to think it does . . . Article 1, Section 8:
"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes . . . To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;"
Army. Navy. I see no Air Force. I see no intelligence gathering agency of any kind. Are those things ILLEGAL and VIOLATE THE LAW?
Also note the unconstitutionality of any milliary appropriation that lasts longer than 2 years . . . .Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
FrankLuskaJan 10, 2012
They also control, to a certain point, what students are taught, which means Government controls your knowledge, you like that?
johnnysoftwareJan 10, 2012
Well, yes, in theory if the students are all orphans raised in a cage that they can never leave and meet other people to talk to them.
Their parents talk to them. Their parents can take them to the public library. Their parents can take them to a bookstore.
Their parents can tell them the truth. Their parents can lie to them. How often do schools lie to students, and what kind of schools do that?
Can you think of any kinds of schools that tell students things are true that are very, very, very, very unlikely to be true?
Take a moment.
Now, are those schools that are strictly following federal guidelines for teaching core educational subjects or schools that take a lot of poetic license?
So why do you fear the government in Washington is the one that will control knowledge and lie to students?
When was the last time you heard someone in federal education office say, "burn a book" as opposed to someone in local politics or religion?
Take your time.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
FrankLuskaJan 10, 2012
Don't need to take my time,
"So why do you fear the government in Washington is the one that will control knowledge and lie to students?"
Fear is not the proper term, do i know for sure most in Government are liars, crooks and pander to the rich and corporations.
You really trust these people? You trust these people to control the curriculum of what America's kids learn in school? Majority of America does not trust the government, why would anyone want people they don't trust to teach their children.
Have you not been involved in the discussions here on Digg.
http://digg.com/news/story/Dumbing_Down_of_America_3
http://digg.com/newsbar/topnews/a_disengaged_and_the_dumbed_down_america
FrankLuskaJan 10, 2012
And this one too.
http://digg.com/newsbar/topnews/if_america_spends_more_than_most_countries_per_student_then_why_are_its_schools_so_bad
ikorkyiJan 9, 2012
i can't believe 50 individual governing bodies - which would be required to maintain, for example, current federal environmental and educational controls - would be more efficient.
you may get slightly more influence on how this is gone about, but at what cost? also consider, like an issue of EPA/FDA dissolution, that companies would now have FIFTY governing bodies to consider to sell/manufacture products.
some things will definitely work better at the state level...maybe even education...but i can't see industry regulation going there and working better.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
nerysJan 9, 2012
its not more efficient. its way way less efficient.
but efficient is not the issue here. FREEDOM AND LIBERTY is. controlling CORRUPTION is.
you see with 50 educational systems (more if you go local level) we have 50 ways to "DO" things potentially. some will work some will not work some will work REALLY WELL some will dive.
when a state "gets it right" other states can demand their reps "do it that way" that way works.
it also means corruption is much more controlled since now they have to corrupt 50 systems instead just buying off ONE system.
ikorkyiJan 9, 2012
where is your proof that this reduces corruption? in my limited time with state level and even local municipalities in New Jersey, Delaware, and now Pennsylvania, i can tell you corruption is rampant in these areas. whether it be favoritism in business deals - from cell phone towers to parking garage bids - to raising salaries behind closed doors and plotting to marginalize representation and information distribution of certain parts of the municipality - it's there just like in Washington.
i see no evidence people would hold their local legislators accountable more than they currently do their state at the federal level. corruption isn't a federal or a state issue - its the fact that people just don't care enough and let this kind of disgusting behavior continue
i see it more likely that you would just have 50 times more corruption at a higher cost based on my observations.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
nerysJan 9, 2012
Corruption is rampant because we have top down infrastructure. YOU HAVE no valid examples because all your examples are TAINTED by upper level decisions that prove my point.
now ANY system or course requires CITIZENS INVOLVEMENT which we are also lacking.
They don't hold accountable because they have no real choice in the matter. its decided federally.
ikorkyiJan 9, 2012
@nerys
"Corruption is rampant because we have top down infrastructure."
i see no evidence of this...i see evidence that we have just as much corruption at the state rep and local rep levels.
to say you would get rid of corruption if you remove the upper most layer where the second upper most layer (state) would now be the upper layer is illogical...considering we already see corruption there. corruption is not inherent in just federal representatives (where do they come from anyway?). This leads me to the following theory:
it doesn't matter what the structure is - and that corruption is based from the ground up. its "we the people" who are broken....else the "corrupt" would never get/hold power.
A mature look at a corporation would lead to the same conclusion: the employees make the company culture, the company doesn't make the company culture. the success and failure of the company depends on the individual employees, not upper management (even though we reward them for it and seldom penalize).Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
johnnysoftwareJan 10, 2012
@nerys
Sadly, you can have rampant corruption no matter what the topology of your government structure is.
It simply requires having dishonest, morally flexible people who care more for themselves than the people who trust them to care for everyone equally.
You seem to be smart enough to know that news corps, organized religion, and so on are hierarchies.
Now, who told you that the federal government was bad and shouldn't be allowed to make decisions regarding some things about he nation.
Was it a non-hierarchical organization or a hierarchical one?
If the latter, seems like you are just caught up in a power-play between two hierarchical organizations, and you're just paying need to one side. At the same time, that seems to invalidate your whole thesis, since you clearly do listen to hierarchies.
Now, in terms of corruption being present in the Philadelphia, New Jersey, etc. areas you honestly never heard of local corruption?
Take some time to do some bottom-up, non-hierarchically investigation and do some reading about the mafia.
Let me know how you find the federal government at fault for mafia's corruption of local officials more than the local officials themselves.
The incidents in NJ alone that were widely reported in the news, including hear on Digg, should teach you otherwise.
It's kind of bizarre you think all corruption comes from higher up.
Organized crime has to start at the bottom and scale its way up, starting with local officials, then regional and institutional, and then finally federal.
Study how it happened in Mexico.
Unless you have not noticed any corruption in Mexico ... ?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
nerysJan 10, 2012
I can't FIX a federal government. its too big. a small group of us MIGHT be able to fix a STATE.
see the difference?
ikorkyi. what planet are you on right now. Seriously. I mean that. you flat out are NOT on this planet.
or at the minimum you DO NOT live in this country. you see no evidence of it? YOUR LIVING IN IT
I don't even know where to begin just POINT your finger in a random direction and your likely to land on an example of it.
YES all forms are open to corruption but SOME forms are "more difficult" to corrupt and are easier to "un-corrupt" if that is even a word but you get the idea.
eraptorJan 9, 2012
While I agree with some of Ron's ideas (i.e., injecting some sorely needed oversight of the Fed...an interesting proposition from a free market proponent), I could never buy into the social concept he's championing for the simple reason that it would bring the country closer to anarchy and complete collapse than I would ever be comfortable. His dismissive attitude of the consequences of "creative destruction" are naively misguided at best, seditious and self-destructive at worst.
I've caught more than a few "deer in the headlight" moments from Ron whenever a well-informed journalist drills down into the details of his social/economic theories. If Ron's theories were valid, moments (such as those) would not arise.
The country is already feeling significant economic pain after pursuing various conservative faith-based economic theories over the past 30 years. As such, it can no longer afford to continue down that same path. The problem with Ron's candidacy is that he can't back up his theories with a track record of economic success and neither can any other conservative candidate running for public office (i.e., executive AND legislative branch positions).Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
peppermintpigJan 10, 2012
Which is it, anarchy or collapse? They are not the same thing.
Ron Paul does not advocate creative destruction. Paul Krugman and contemporaries advocate creative destruction by touting the good that comes from war and disaster. Bastiat's broken window fallacy.
There's a difference between the creative destruction types and recognizing that subsidizing unsustainable activity leads to bad debt, which SHOULD be purged through a return to fiscal responsibility and not federal reserve bailouts.
bcronosJan 9, 2012
Ahhh... Beg your Government masters for all these things then...
austinjameshereJan 9, 2012
I don't believe in begging for things... that's what wall street insiders do when they fail. I believe in individual responsibility as well as social responsibility.
dustinthewind2Jan 9, 2012
He wants less government regulation, and obviously no president ever gets everything they want. Some of his ideas may (and I say may, because I'm not entirely convinced they are) be a little over the top, but he is the ONLY candidate looking to fundamentally change the way this country works, and that is what we need. We need someone to shake things up in a way that Obama promised to do and failed (no matter what you think of him, few can say they haven't been disappointed in his presidency to some extent). He promised big change, but so much of what he's done has been the same tired policies that have been weakening our country for years.
We can't keep along the path we're currently on and expect things to get better. Things haven't gotten better in this country for a very long time, and it's about time we have leadership that isn't going to follow essentially the same path as the failed administrations before them followed. It hasn't worked in the past, it's not going to work in the future.
liscombcJan 9, 2012
Exactly, we have been going down hill for a long time and things are only getting worse. Everyone else that is currently running want's to keep things just the way they are. Maybe Ron's ideas wouldn't work quite the way he planned, but they are a different direction, and I think we should at least give him 4 years to try.
moonriderJan 9, 2012
You'd be absolutely wrong about the results of everything you wrote after the words "that said". Please research those issues in depth and you will see he is correct about all of it.
Not only that, see this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM&feature=share
roddackJan 9, 2012
First the department of education, on the federal level, has been a disaster and the constant decline in student achievment is a reflection of that. The problem is that the federal office wants a 100% control and so instead of education adapting to the needs of the student in a particular area we have a situation i which the system wants them to adapt to it.
The EPA has only been around since 1970 and clean drinking water has been around for far longer now and is still mostly handled on a county level because holy crap people need it.
As for most other things he is against on the federal level the primary reason he stand against them is because he does not believe the federal government is authorized to act upon them based upon the limited powers granted in Article 1 section 8.
Liberty in of itself creates a society that treats people fairly and with compassion, but the government doesn't operate on liberty its actions require it to act against liberty and it's compassion comes under the threat of force and that isn't compassion.
ostracizeJan 9, 2012
"That said, his stance on pretty much everything else would benefit the top 1% of America at the expense of the rest of us.
"Who needs clean drinking water? Let's get rid of the EPA. "
The EPA enables corporations to over-run us with their pollution. If you have a problem with one company's pollution, your recourse is to complain to the EPA who impose stiff fines on the polluters. But these costs can often be absorbed depending on the profit made. With a proper free-market system which Paul espouses, those companies are exposed to lawsuits which are costly and detrimental (and become more so if they continue the practice). They no longer have a protective organization to fall back on. Essentially, the free-market is a tougher regulator than the EPA is.
Who needs a department of Education... we'll just let kids be home schooled and create a private system where those who can afford it get the best education in the world, and if you can't tough luck..."
Two things there.
1. Yes, the rich will get the best of the best in terms of education, but that's no different than it is today. The poor will benefit too because with more options available to the middle class, the bottom line in education will be less strained for time and resources.
2. Every state already has a Department of Education. If you feel the Federal Department of Education is so necessary, then it stands to reason that you think a global department of education is necessary too. I would be in favor of allowing each state to compete with each other for producing the brightest students so every other state will copy their model. This monolithic educational model only ensures every state adheres to the baseline, but it prevents any state from exceeding it. The Department of Education is only 30 years old anyway so I don't understand why it's such a cherished part of our culture.
" a world where if you can't afford health insurance and you have cancer, let's just hope you can find a nice warm corner in an ally to crawl into and wait it out."
Simply absurd. There are already ample charitable organizations who already provide care and resources to cancer patients so there is no reason to believe they would allow this kind of scenario. Obviously, they do not have enough to cover health costs today, but in Paul's free-market system, the costs of health care will be forced to come down anyway with bars removed from competition and monopolies pulled back (AMA, big-pharma, etc.).
But this is all philosophical posturing. Ultimately, there are two important things to remember about Ron Paul.
1. Paul believes in these things philosophically, but he also recognizes the dependence we have on the Federal Government and the chaos that ensues if we simply turn these things off. Every politician has philosophical hopes and desires, but they always function within the confines of what is politically reasonable. Paul is no different here. Read his platform and listen to his speeches. He is only talking about repealing what is reasonable for this election cycle. A Paul presidency will not look *that* different from any other.
2. Paul is 77 years old. He has thought long and hard about his world view and how it plays out in real life. His entire life, he's experienced a government that went the other way and he's seen the results. This is not just some off the cuff thinking. He knows exactly what he pushing for and it's bigger than you might have thought.
kwanijmlJan 10, 2012
Wow. Very nicely said. It really boggles my mind when I see comments like this with as many buries as diggs.
It's the reason I still hang around Digg. . . I have this morbid curiousity to discover what exactly makes some people (too many people unfortunately) tick. The denial of logic necessary to bury a comment like yours belies a distressing level of deep-seated statist indoctrination in our culture.
nerysJan 9, 2012
I like the EPA. I agree with the EPA. its still illegal.
Let me ask you. I go out with a gun and STEAL a $100k filter truck for filtering water (I made it up)
I plug this into all our houses and give us clean water.
are you ok with this? of course not. the reason is simple. I STOLE property from someone to do it.
the ends do not justify the means.
the EPA is something I like enjoy and want (for the most part) but its THEFT so to speak.
The only lawful way for an EPA to exist is with a constitutional amendment since it is NOT a power provided to the federal government in the constitution.
SO if its so important and so good why did they not do it LEGALLY. ie amend the damned constitution to ADD the epa as a POWER granted to the federal government.
THIS is Ron Paul's stance.
if its so good DO IT LEGALLY. not by simple decree (theft at gunpoint) and flat out IGNORE the law.
even though you did good for your neighborhood your still going to jail for grand theft auto as you should and the truck is being taken back and given back to its rightful owner.
instead your neighborhood needs to save up and BUY ONE or we need to AMEND The constitution to add a provision for the EPA.
that is the whole damned point.
if ANY OF US did what the government does we goto PRISON.
all I want is what ron paul wants. OBEY THE DAMNED LAW.
treebaneJan 10, 2012
Wow, this kid has it completely backwards. My move to libertarianism came in my 30s after years of thinking I was a liberal Democrat. It comes when actually dealing with government in running your business, owning your house, paying your taxes.... then you start thinking and investigating. I started thinking in terms of 'has government made this better or worse'. Becoming libertarian is an evolution of applied logic, not a stoner's idealistic fantasy.
skyislandJan 9, 2012
Corporatism or merger of corporate with government is fascism - the definition of fascism circa Italy WW2 Axis power rise.. That is gov of today for Republicans who sit pretty thinking trickle down economics will tickle a little to them.. The idea that fascism has gone global and beyond control fails to register or that fascism is a viable political reality expanding today and direct consequence of everything having a price tag or being allowed to be influenced by money, since Citizen United.
Ownership rights of mankind, ownership rights of thoughts as those of intellectual property, ownership rights of corporations that extract the natural resources of the Earth and perpetuate release of gasses that are forcing the planet to ignite runaway greenhouse gas release set to consume all life.. Liberal compromise won't solve the price tag on everything concept so engrained in our consumer lifestyle, our every day way of life. The concept of money needs to incorporate a price tag on carbon and release of gasses to the sky because without change, fundamental change on the grandest of scales Earth dies.
peppermintpigJan 9, 2012
There's a bit of flexibility in the definition of fascism as to whether the corporation or the government initiates the offer to collude for mutual benefit, but the government is the foundation upon which monopoly privilege is derived because that is where the seat of perceived authority/power rests. But it's a little redundant considering government itself functions as a corporation, avoiding accountability through the chain of command and distributing losses and expenses on those of us which politicians claim to serve.
As to your commentary on prices, I find it counter intuitive to say that you value something so much as to forbid the assignment of any kind of value to it. I also consider it illogical to assign collective judgment and exact a cost for those elusive "negative externalities". That isn't to say you can't assign a cost for damages when you can A. prove for them and B. establish through education a conventional sentiment of increased environmental stewardship which would lead to affirmative arbitration for compensation. We don't live in that thoroughly voluntary society so justice on environmental issues is hard to come by. In any case, demanding taxes doesn't solve the pollution problem. Fascism via eco guilt is no better a solution. If I am harmed by factory pollution, who gives the government, which was not the party harmed, the right to eco-tax the factory and leave me embattled in court for years because the government also gave the factory corporate status to erode my opportunity for equal footing in a government court? The "Justice" system and the tax and spend legislative are reactive and never productively pro-active in addressing the problems. Symptoms beget symptoms, with revolving doors for lobbyists and election cycle amnesia.
prettyboyfloydJan 9, 2012
Author MacKenzie claims to be a former Libertarian turned Liberal, but it is clear he never spent much time around other Libertarians. He dismisses Ron Paul's clearly articulated agenda as a utopian fantasy. He never managers to answer Nick Lowe's oft-heard question, "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?"
andyhollumsJan 11, 2012
So many straw men, so little time! I’ll just hit a couple of them from the article:
1. “It is fundamental to libertarianism that all business is inherently good and naturally self-policing.”
Here, libertarianism is indeed “anti-communist” for libertarianism doesn’t in fact require that all people (or even businesspeople) become good and selfless. Libertarians fully acknowledge that people are flawed and that some may try to lie, cheat, or steal their way to the top. We just point out that in a truly free market, it would actually be much more difficult to do so. Here’s an example: John Stossel is well known for reporting about the abuses of corporations, calling them out for their lies and dishonest advertising. He’s made a career out of it, all the while working for media corporations who derive their revenue selling commercial spots. Ralph Nader once said that corporate media would never allow consumer reporting because they wouldn’t want to lose ad revenue. He thought that only public broadcasting media would do such reporting. In fact, it is almost entirely the reverse. It turns out that we consumers actually want to know who might be trying to cheat us and that there is a valuable market for those who investigate such things. Furthermore, it matters to us that those reporters be honest and not merely shills for businesses. If we don’t trust the reporters, we won’t watch. If we don’t watch, they can’t make their advertising revenue. This is just one example of how the marketplace can be self-policing without the need for all businesses to be “good”.
2. “Now, if I make you a home loan I know you can’t pay back and sell the paper at a profit to someone else, that’s even better than baking pies because I made a lot more money, you have a house instead of just a pie, and dumbass over there has a nice-looking asset for his balance sheet.”
This is an example of how “Big Business” is confused with “Free Market”. We don’t have a free market in this country (or, as far as I know, anywhere in the world). Government is entwined in virtually everything we do. Thus, when you notice failures in a segment of the economy, you cannot simply chalk those up to failures of the “Free Market”. This is certainly the case with the most recent banking and mortgage crisis. One (I think smaller) part of the problem which was more loudly argued by conservatives is that the federal government passed a law to encourage banks to issue more loans to those with lower incomes and thus, presumably, less ability to repay. But if that is all the government did, the problem would only have affected the specific banks issuing the loans. It wouldn’t have metastasized into the massive tumor that it became. If the banks knew that they would have had to bear the brunt of making bad loans, they wouldn’t have willingly shot themselves in the foot. But they knew that they could package those bad loans together and sell them to whom? That’s right the U.S. Government. And when the ish really hit the fan, who did those “Big Business” Wall Street fat cats turn to? That’s right, their good ole Uncle Sam. (This is one reason that Ron Paul is sympathetic to some of the sentiments behind the Occupy Wall Street movement.) So all these supposedly free market businessmen made all of these seemingly ludicrous investments because they knew they could count on the government to bail them out. The truly free market is about profits AND losses. That sort of risky behavior would have been punished instead of rewarded.
3. As far as the “Tragedy of the Commons”, it is a real concern. For instance why did buffalo become endangered and not cows? (Aside from the fact that eliminating buffalo herds was a tactic used by the U.S. government in their genocidal war with Native Americans.) People owned cows. They made money off of cows. Therefore they had an interest in making sure there would always be more cows. They fed them and they bred them. They made sure that other people didn’t come around and kill their cows. But people didn’t own the buffalo. When they were hunting them, there was no incentive to make sure there would be enough left to keep the species going. Afterall, if I don’t kill this buffalo, someone else will. Assigning property rights in endangered species would be the single most effective means of ensuring the survival of said species.
OK, this was just my attempt to answer a few of the topics brought up in the article. For more detailed analysis on how a genuine free market would be infinitely better than a state regulated one, please check out mises.org. There’s tons of articles, videos, and audios. There are e-books and audiobooks that you can download for free. People like Murray Rothbard, Walter Block, Hans Herman-Hoppe, and Tom Woods have done amazing work on this.
Look, we libertarians don’t want to kill bears. But if the bear is the metaphor for the government, then it has do die, because there’s simply no way to train the bear to take care of my pet salmon. It’s a bear. Eating salmon is in its nature. Destroying liberty is embedded in the very nature of government. To think it can do otherwise is truly utopian.
drumcyborgJan 8, 2012
The 'liberals' need to stop and consider that Obama may not have another term. Since we can't seem to get over bipartisanship, this means we are faced with the possibility of a GOP office once again.
If that is to be, then the 'liberals' might want to be more cautious in slamming the only (R) in the running that isn't a corporate-paid neocon.
In short, Obama could be on his way out, and if that is so...who of these contenders would suck the least? Of these red-coat fools jabbering on and on, only Ron Paul is worthy of considering if you are into changing this f**ked up system. All the others want status quo.
Do you want more of the same s**t that bankrupted our country?
shivabeachJan 9, 2012
Ron Paul may be the one worth considering in your opinion, but he is totally unelectable. Under no circumstances can you think that Paul is for you. So basically if Obama is not elected, that whoever would suck more would not be Paul. It would be any of the above except Perry, Paul, Huntsman etc
http://crooksandliars.com/kenneth-quinnell/ron-pauls-racism-isnt-worst-thingComment is buried, click here to see the rest.
drumcyborgJan 9, 2012
Ron Paul is totally electable! He is over 35, born in the US, lives in the US, is participating AND LEADING in the caucuses, has a gigantic base of supporters, and funding to make it happen. Of course he is electable!
OH! Is it because he doesn't fall neatly into the bulls**t bipartisan system that has f**ked us all over repeatedly for decades?
We don't want your neocon s**t. We don't want your quasi-Democrat s**t. They have failed us.
END THE FED!
.
GentlemanGhost542Jan 9, 2012
Paul bot detected
drumcyborgJan 9, 2012
...and ghosts aren't real. ;)
FrankLuskaJan 9, 2012
Ghost bot detected, or is it an Obama bot?
seltaeb4Jan 9, 2012
Paultard detected, more like.
leonard2Jan 9, 2012
Libtards detected.
peppermintpigJan 9, 2012
"Ron Paul may be the one worth considering in your opinion, but he is totally unelectable. Under no circumstances can you think that Paul is for you"
LOL @ 'in your opinion' followed by trying to tell others what they can or cannot think.
Electable... hmm. Well he is a Congressman. Been elected plenty of times.
RavenshoodieJan 9, 2012
12 consecutive terms to be exact.
Closed AccountJan 9, 2012
But I thought we were trying to move *away* from career politicians...
RavenshoodieJan 9, 2012
He has authored bills on term limits. Problem is getting the legislation past the committee process so the House/Senate can vote on it. This means it'll probably never happen so it looks like we're stuck with career politicians for now. Obviously some will be better then the others.
seltaeb4Jan 9, 2012
Not true. After his failed 1988 Libertarian bid for president, he lost his House seat. He took a few years off and sold race-baiting newsletters to right-wing survivalist gold-bug morons, then decided he preferred living on the government tit, seeking and winning back his old House seat by masquerading as a Texas Republican.
He now appeals to white suburban college kids from the who think his entire platform is pot legalization, but who know *absolutely nothing* about his history or the insane economic theories behind his beliefs. These kids are being trolled and played just as hard as the ignorant rednecks who bought his subscription newsletters a generation ago.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
peppermintpigJan 9, 2012
Paul's voting record is consistent over an extensive period of time, and knowing where a politician stands is attractive to voters. Paul's position has an appeal beyond party lines particularly with the anti-war movement crowd, many of whom thought they were getting a peace president in Obama.
Every week I hear callers on the radio resenting their votes for Obama (not that they would have supported McCain either). They recognize that the media and the political elite are selecting candidates for the public, dictating who is 'viable' and manipulating exposure in favor of warmongers and central planners.
Who are you kidding by trying to suggest that Ron Paul is known to college students solely as some kind of a marijuana platform republican? The two most common responses I hear from college students about Paul are his views on war and economic philosophy, which they understand more than you give credit for. And yes, coming in a close third is the war on drugs.
Austrian school economic theory is solid. Chicago school and Keynesianism are cut from the same cloth, exploiting the science of economics by conflating government action with economy.
BTW, You don't have to like gold, but you're something of a bigot to call people morons on the grounds that they invest their money differently than you. Your stereotypes about students, survivalists, or white people bring a whole lot of nothing to the table.
retardIQ70Jan 9, 2012
His "insane" economic theories, like the ones that are backed by the most respected economists of our time?
Gold bug morons? in 1988 gold was about $480 an ounce. Accounting for inflation that same $480 would be worth $257 or to put it in other words what cost $480 in 1988 would now cost $870. Conversely gold is now about $1500 an ounce. Who's the moron here?
As for the race baiting newsletters, that's a flimsy story that's been debunked time and time again. Paul himself has denounced it. Got anything else? I think not.
anonadminJan 9, 2012
Seems to me, if he really is "unelectable" then you should be pushing for him to win the Republican nomination. Think about it, if he really is unelectable then it would be a shoe in for Obama to win a second term. Why not fain support for Ron Paul and show his supporters just how unelectable he is.
app3g3qsielvrev65fb8dbd7f6b325Jan 10, 2012
Typical stupid and incorrect liberal/progressive view of libertarians. Libertarians are strict constitutionalists, not anarchists. We want equal protection under the law, not abolishment of the law. The author needs to get off the soapbox. :^)
mercedrocksJan 10, 2012
Blog spam. Govt knows it all right?
jseresJan 10, 2012
Logged in just to bury this piece of s**t.
shivabeachJan 8, 2012
and this is where the term personal responsibility comes in. Don't like your cable company? Get another one, oops there isn't another one because there seems to be a monopoly in your neighborhood. Don't have health insurance? If your personal responsibility to have it even though the healthcare corporations have priced it well beyond your means.
This is an excellent expose a of libertarianism. Of how the 1% will do just fine and the 99% to various degrees will crawl through the mud. If you can afford it you're free to step on anyone.
Our founding fathers, despite what the tea party thugs believe, believed in a strong central government. The Constitution was not written for states rights. It was written to provide us with the president, commerce, a Congress and the right of each state to equal representation. Those are the values of the founding fathers. Libertarianism has no values whatsoever to it that apply to the 310 million people in this country.
It's so easy for Ron Paul to talk about our liberties and freedoms. The one thing he never talks about is the effects of everyone having the freedoms that he talks about. Ron Paul does not believe in roads or anything else is provided to you through your taxes. To him these kinds of things just magically appear. To him the free-market is free to run over anyone that it wants to under any circumstances. Ron Paul has absolutely nothing to offer AmericansComment is buried, click here to see the rest.
FrankLuskaJan 9, 2012
What makes you an expert on libertarianism?
"Don't like your cable company? Get another one, oops there isn't another one because there seems to be a monopoly in your neighborhood. Don't have health insurance?" Paul likes competition, not monopolies, create conditions where businesses can compete, instead of the monopolies the Right and Left have created for you.
"Libertarianism has no values whatsoever to it that apply to the 310 million people in this country." Really, why does Paul have any support at all, by your theory he would have never been elected to anything.
"Ron Paul does not believe in roads or anything else is provided to you through your taxes." Outright Lie.
"To him these kinds of things just magically appear". Another Outright Lie.
"To him the free-market is free to run over anyone that it wants to under any circumstances." Even Another Outright Lie.
Aren't you ashamed of your self for perpetuating the propaganda machine. If not, you damn well should be.
shivabeachJan 9, 2012
Well you certainly couldn't refute what I said, so i will just thank you and move along.
FrankLuskaJan 9, 2012
You gave no proof, just accusations which you have not backed up, so i thank you too.
leonard2Jan 9, 2012
There is nothing to refute. You are nothing but crackpots and should be treated as so. Mock, ridicule, and move on. That's is all you and the Politicususa crazies deserve.
jhw539Jan 9, 2012
"What makes you an expert on libertarianism? "
I'm always looking for an expert on libertarian, perhaps you can fit the bill. Can you point me towards a real-world example of a functioning, modern libertarian state any where in the world? Communism sounds find on paper too but is an utter failure in reality. Before pushing the most powerful nation on Earth towards a pretty radical political philosophy, can you point to examples where a Libertarian governmental system has been tested in the real world?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
nerysJan 9, 2012
when you find a country where corruption has not taken over.
THEIR IS no "libertarian example"
that is the problem.
but this I can tell you. the current way. and the way of EVERY SINGLE OTHER CANDIDATE
"DOES NOT WORK"
of that I am 100% certain. History backs me up
jhw539Jan 9, 2012
"but this I can tell you. the current way. and the way of EVERY SINGLE OTHER CANDIDATE
"DOES NOT WORK"
of that I am 100% certain. History backs me up"
Says a guy living in the most prosperous and peaceful age humanity has ever known.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
nerysJan 10, 2012
Define Prosperous.
I barely make it from "day to day"
sure I have it good compared to say someone in africa.
but that is a strawman argument.
I am paying over 50% of my total earnings to taxation.
I can't see a doctor because I flat out can not afford insurance and they have "rigged" the price to see a doctor to be so high you can't see one without insurance.
and you call this "the most prosperous and peaceful age?
go ask the folks in the middle east if this is a peaceful age.
go ask the nearly 20% of unemployed american's if this is a "prosperous" time. go ask the 50% of american's making less than $40k a year if this is a "prosperous" time.
sure I guess if you in the top 20% its "prosperous"
what about the rest of us schlubs?
h8f8kesJan 10, 2012
Try Singapore for starters. If your looking for a strictly Libertarian society there isn't one (yet).
GeorgeTheDemocratJan 9, 2012
As a Democrat for 40 years, i even find your assumptions completely ludacris.
shivabeachJan 9, 2012
Look at Pauls own words on the subject. You have the personal responsibility to have health insurance. The problem is, if your company doesn't offer it, you cant afford it. If you get sick, tough. ExtrapolateComment is buried, click here to see the rest.
peppermintpigJan 9, 2012
But you go on to blame libertarianism for the ailments of corporatism and the nanny state. That's a massive hole in your argument. Your idealism will never meet with reality if you make unrealistic expectations about human nature.
anonadminJan 9, 2012
Why can you not afford it?
I went decades with out having what most would consider medical insurance. I did have a major medical policy. It covered things like emergency room visits, and major health issues like cancer. Ran me a whopping $25 a month.
However, I paid out of pocket for things like office visits and prescriptions. So, I may go to the doctor once every 2 to 3 months for an issue and pay $75 for the visit and $25 for the prescription. Sure beats the hell out of the $600 a month that full medical wanted.
Now, how about you ponder this one. The full medical coverage gives you a higher price because the law prohibits then from lumping people into categories. So they can not do like life insurance and bill smokers more than non-smokers or overweight people more than skinny people. So they make up the difference by doing it through companies. If a company signs up then there are a few hundred people, some healthy, some not, thus it averages out and costs less.
BTW, there is also a law that prohibits someone from creating a company in order to provide health insurance to it's employees. So, for example, I can not create a company called "Anon states industries" and put my family and friends on the books in order to get health insurance or the better health insurance rate.
ljseinfeldJan 9, 2012
Please post a link to the company you used for your $25/month major medical policy.
anonadminJan 9, 2012
Sorry, I said major medical and it was Catastrophic Health Insurance. It was with Blue cross blue shield.
ljseinfeldJan 9, 2012
BIG difference... (but thanks for the follow-up)
jhw539Jan 9, 2012
"So they can not do like life insurance and bill smokers more than non-smokers or overweight people more than skinny people."
Not sure where you are getting your "facts", but they are wrong. Smokers regularly pay more for individual health insurance and have for many years.
http://www.iwebquotes.com/vurl/articles/2518/Health___Smoker_s_Rates.aspx
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11394043/ns/health-addictions/t/smokers-paying-extra-health-insurance/#.TwtQ8m9SSYk
nerysJan 10, 2012
but you are placing those values in our CORRUPT system. so sure they look ludicrous.
now put those values in a system RUN under those values.
remove the pharam corruption in our politics. remove the insane patent system and insane legislation that creates the pharama monopolies we have in place today.
IE return SANITY to health care and suddenly the idea of personal responsibility is not so insane.
you can't take one part and mix is with an incompatible part and say SEE of course its insane.
thats a BS argument and you know it.
peppermintpigJan 9, 2012
Personal responsibility implies volitional freedom. A lack of choice due to monopoly or monopoly privilege negates this. You're bitching about what the government has allowed through corporatism, not a flaw in libertarianism. Libertarianism doesn't guarantee freedom from violence. People with violent ideologies don't care about respecting someone with a libertarian ideology.
"Libertarianism has no values whatsoever to it that apply to the 310 million people in this country."
Libertarianism: Non Aggression Principle: It is unethical to initiate force on others.
What part of this is doesn't reach out to an individual's sensibilities? The problem is that not everybody believes in applying the NAP in a consistent manner.
nickymouseJan 9, 2012
I agree with your post, but the government should act in aggression when the liberty and freedom of a citizen(s) is being intentionally and forcefully suppressed, such as another country declaring war on the US, state sponsored kidnapping of US citizens, piracy of US flagged ships, etc.
peppermintpigJan 9, 2012
Most US states suggest as much when they declare their mission statements. That is the intended role of the federal government as laid out in the constitution. If that's all the government did I don't think there would be a problem. But the advent of empire and taxing labor flies in the face of liberty.
nickymouseJan 9, 2012
indeed
dustinthewind2Jan 9, 2012
The founding fathers warned time after time about letting the government get too big. Our government is obviously too big, and Paul is the candidate that wants the least amount of FEDERAL government interference (he's all for STATE rights).
seltaeb4Jan 9, 2012
"(he's all for STATE rights)."
just like the Confederates of the Civil War, and the Dixiecrats of the 1950s and 60s.
"States' Rights" is and has always been a code phrase employed by the neo-Confederates.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
dustinthewind2Jan 9, 2012
Just because a phrase is used incorrectly or by a fringe group doesn't mean the phrase itself or the meaning behind it is somehow less relevant or valued.
He's for less federal interference. He believes that states empower the federal government, and not the other way around. And that's how it was meant to be.
FrankLuskaJan 9, 2012
What? There were neo-Confederates when the 10th was added to the constitution? You don't say........
moonriderJan 9, 2012
"Don't like your cable company? Get another one, oops there isn't another one because there seems to be a monopoly in your neighborhood."
And the reason for that is because your city gives the franchise to only ONE cable company.
"Don't have health insurance? If your personal responsibility to have it even though the healthcare corporations have priced it well beyond your means."
You can blame state government regulation of insurance companies and the regulation and licensing rules for our medical system for that situation, too.
Libertarianism is pro-choice in everything, as long as you are not violating the rights of any others by doing what you're doing, you're gold; but aggress against one or more others and your personal responsibility kicks in, you must recompense them for the damage you caused to their person or property. Libertarianism is not lawless, it demands you never violate the rights of others.
Our Founding Fathers hammered out the Constitution on behalf of the States, it was the States which formed the federal government, not the other way around, and federal law does NOT trump States' laws and long as those State laws do not violate the Constitution. The federal government, in raiding all these dispensaries in States which have medical marijuana laws, is violating the Constitution -- the federal government has no Constitutional authority to ban any substances or products or services and has no Constitutional authority to even have a federal law enforcement agency, let alone dozens of them, that again is a power left to the States.
If you were to look at Ron Paul's views honestly and without bias, you would find most of what you wrote to be flat out lies. And EVERYONE is supposed to be free, what the hell do you think the Declaration of Independence is all about, your and everyone's UNALIENABLE RIGHTS to be free in your life, to own your own body rather than some king (or government) owning you, and to the right to the fruits of your labor (not to be taxed at 50% or more as working Americans currently are, when you add up all the local, State and federal taxes, fees and regulations which adds to the cost of ALL the products and services you purchase). If you are an adult you are extremely uneducated and ignorant on the two most important documents in your life.
seltaeb4Jan 9, 2012
"Our Founding Fathers hammered out the Constitution on behalf of the States"
No they didn't. They tried that first with the "Articles of Confederation," which was a disastrous failure. They realized their errors and replaced the Articles with a stronger Federal government via the Constitution.
Study your history next time before you boast of your knowledge.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
nerysJan 9, 2012
Are you that clueless? the constitution is not a federal government.
The constitution is a CONTRACT to "create" a limited controller federal government because they realized there is a valid NEED for a limited small central government.
not the other way around.
The constitution is a LIMITING document not an EMPOWERING document. it says OK we need feds but here is specifically what your allowed to do and these things you flat out may not do.
THAT is what we have.
moonriderJan 9, 2012
THAT is what we are SUPPOSED to have, but because the American people have not enforced that Constitutionm every president and congress since Woodrow Wilson have violated the Constitution until it no longer applies. Ron Paul will reverse that situation. Of course he won't have the time to get us back to the original Constitution, its going to take more than 4 years to do that, but he will get us well started on that path and hopefully at the end of those 4 years the American people will have realized that having the Constitution limit what the federal government is allowed to do is worth enforcing and worth electing more and more who are Constitutional conservatives to government at every level.
realcoolguy9022Jan 9, 2012
"Don't like your cable company? Get another one, oops there isn't another one because there seems to be a monopoly in your neighborhood."
The Libertarian response would be not to disallow competition. If a monopoly exists and the corporations is NOT keeping their customers very happy, OBVIOUSLY there is a lot of room for competition. Get a bunch of people together to start another cable company. There ya go.
"Don't have health insurance? If your personal responsibility to have it even though the healthcare corporations have priced it well beyond your means."
A lot of the pricing 'beyond' people's means has a lot to do with government intervention, regulations, and cost shifting. If everyone only paid what they could, these astronomical rates would come back down and make sense based on wages. Still emergency care will likely always be rendered to save lives. People could voluntarily donate money, time, and skill when they feel it necessary. We could even call it a name, like charity.
"The Constitution was not written for states rights. It was written to provide us with the president, commerce, a Congress and the right of each state to equal representation."
The states never signed onto the constitution to give up all their rights to a 'supreme leader'. In fact that's generally what they've been trying to avoid after fighting the Brits.
"Libertarianism has no values whatsoever to it that apply to the 310 million people in this country."
Libertarianism has LOTS of values, but for only to those who understand it. It's all about being free - to do what you want. Except your rights do end where it infringes on others right to be free.
"Ron Paul does not believe in roads or anything else is provided to you through your taxes. To him these kinds of things just magically appear. "
Actually it's rather shocking what happens when people decide they have a VERY real need for a road. Local governments can get it done, and probably on the cheap.
"To him the free-market is free to run over anyone that it wants to under any circumstances. Ron Paul has absolutely nothing to offer Americans"
You're wrong here, while you are 'free to do anything' you are not free to bring harm to others or end their freedoms.
diggduggjoeJan 9, 2012
Plus in a free market where you are not forced to buy stuff by law or have only a single government sponsored monopoly for a product or service, you could vote with your wallet.
What people forget about a REAL free market is all transactions are voluntary. Do not like being raped by your cable provider? You would have choices and you will always have the choice to not use cable at all.
I hear all the time how we need to have government fix the music business. However, the government can be corrupted by music company money, so you may struggle to get what you want. The public already has an awesome weapon at its disposal, it is the BFG of consumer protection. You may call it a boycott, but simply you do not need to be raped over an optional purchase. You are being raped with your permission for you refuse to walk away from the crappy transaction. You do not need music. There is no law mandating you buy iTunes or CDs. Unless such laws are put in place by an ever growing government, you will always have the BFG at your side.
Yes, some things are non-optional like food and health care but true competition lowers costs dramatically. Capitalism feeds the world, not ministers' decrees in marble buildings.
The only health care you would not be able to shop around for would be emergency services. However, you would be able to shop around for affordable insurance policies before your need such care. It is the pay for everything policies which get pricey. It is why the all-you-can-eat buffet is $15 with drink, yet McDs has a dollar menu. To think you can legislate that every person gets a $1 buffet and somehow any buffets will remain open is pure insanity. Yet, the article thinks liberals have a since of "hard realism".
peppermintpigJan 9, 2012
"The only health care you would not be able to shop around for would be emergency services."
This too can be done by the marketplace and people can utilize collective bargaining. It may have to be done if the states have financial collapses. It's likely that it would still be done by a large hospital coordinating with fire and rescue.
diggduggjoeJan 9, 2012
I agree with your comments, but my point is if I go to Des Moines, Iowa and have a cardiac arrest, I am not going to be able to make many choices at that point. The EMTs and other care providers will likely be whomever is available. I will not be able to sit down and calmly evaluate where I should go for the best care or value. Anything else such as your suggestions or insurance can be shopped for you will have the time to do so.
realcoolguy9022Jan 9, 2012
It's shocking though, but a lot of times people do shop hospitals (when things are not immediately dire, and they have more than seconds/minutes). There's a reason why hospitals do strive very hard to keep their 'scores' as high as they can. There is a compelling reason to shop which hospital you will go to depending upon the procedure/treatment you will undergo.
peppermintpigJan 10, 2012
There was a story recently about how a firefighting service refused to put out a fire for a lack of $75 which the homeowners didn't pay. This was how the government set things up: The monopoly made it optional.
The problem in this instance was that the homeowner did offer to pay once the blaze began (but hadn't yet touched the house) and the firefighters, who wasted money coming out to the call, didn't even bother to put it out, and recklessly allowed their house and a neighbors house to catch fire, and only then did they act. They had no competition in place to motivate what should otherwise have been a common sense response: Mitigate harm.
As a libertarian, I believe they certainly have the right to refuse where no contract exists, but as professionals in fire and rescue services, it makes them look like fools. Surely an act of such charity would have seen a market response if the firefighters publicized that they accept donations for charity cases. Establishing identity, credit, or reputation are important parts of building a business in any society.
Part of the problem is that the government fosters an uninformed public through its history of taking over or regulating emergency response and people might be led to assume that their taxes are providing a certain level of protection which doesn't manifest itself in times of need. Courts have ruled that there is no legal obligation of protection, which repudiates the 'social contract' people think exists in the Constitution.
Most scenarios of alternative solutions to government services follow the meltdown of the state in an economic depression, which might dramatically assume that everybody lacks the capital to figure out a solution. I'm afraid things would be difficult no matter what if it were to come to that, but wealth is not zero sum. We don't live in a hunting and gathering society, despite how some people might act. Innovation and saving are what help advance quality of life.
If you can stop the train from derailing before it hits the end of the line, then there's room for a recovery. If the state is taxing more and more and service does not improve or gets cut back (could start with post office and move to more important things), what good is it to continue paying that tax?
ostracizeJan 9, 2012
“Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain.”
― Frédéric Bastiat, The Law
prettyboyfloydJan 9, 2012
Sorry, but you, sir, are a f**king idiot.
johnnysoftwareJan 10, 2012
It reads more like a primary on communism, at least the first half does.
lordgriggsJan 10, 2012
Spencer- Rand = libertarianism!
johnnysoftwareJan 10, 2012
"know that he envisioned the state eventually withering from disuse as a natural consequence of proletarian bliss"
I think most people do know that is what he said and that it is about as likely to arise as spontaneous generation of life is about to occur.
They certainly did not get that in the core communist countries. What they got instead was rule by powerful aristocratic oligarchs. The latter just hid their wealth and even the stores they shopped in from the public eye of the 90% who were not told what the 10% had from enjoying the fruits of their labors.
Once the facade was let down, three things happened a lot:
1. privatization of state assets for a pittance (in US term for this is: rip-off)
2. privateering of private assets by gunplay and asset holder loss of life
3. robbing of banks by pay me or your family members might have accidents
Same oligarchy, the 90% were still poor.
Doesn't look like the state withers.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
specimen7Jan 9, 2012
TL;DR.
tribbledotJan 10, 2012
Libertarianism sounds like doing nothing. It's not that I don't agree with certain aspects but I disagree with the why. If your reason to not protect our people is because you believe we don't have permission then we have an issue. No regulations, no healthcare, and no defense not because he knows that some wars are unjust and unnecessary or that healthcare is costly but because he doesn't believe we have permission? This seems like a crazy cop-out to actually do something.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
moonriderJan 10, 2012
The federal government does not have the Constitutional authorization to do any of those things, he is correct about that. However, he knows (which you obviously do not) that the individual States absolutely have the power to do those things at the State level, PROVIDED the citizens of the State authorize their State government to do them. It is far easier for the people to control the government closest to them, and easier to control State government than the federal government, which is why the authors of the Constitution left these situations (and all law enforcement) to the States and to the People respectively.
Why are so many people afraid of the kind of freedom our Founders wanted for us? The kind of freedom the human soul longs to have; at least sane souls do.
Our society does not bode well for anyone trying to maintain sanity, government and our fellow citizens are much too intrusive, much too restrictive, much too oppressive. There are just too damn many busybodies sticking their noses in other people's lives and encouraging, even demanding government to do even more of that. Those who are Christian (or call themselves that) have forgotten this verse from their bible:
"However, let none of you become as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer OR AS A BUSYBODY IN OTHER PEOPLE'S AFFAIRS." 1Peter 4:15
It goes double for governments!
I'm not a believer but I obey that admonition, and have done so all my life. In a libertarian world we would expect EVERYONE to obey that live your own life and let others live theirs admonition, with the caveat that when someone's life liberty or property (our unalienable rights) are at stake, one takes action by stopping the perpetrator's ability to violate the rights of another in whatever manner necessary to achieve that goal while protecting your own life, liberty and property, too. In this kind of society little government would be necessary and limited and dealing with violations of rights would be one of the things such a limited government would be authorized to do.
tribbledotJan 10, 2012
because most of us realize that our founding fathers lived over 200 years ago. This was before the telephone, the car, the television, or the internet. It did make sense when this country was founded to hand power over to a state as it could hear directly from its citizens better than our national government. It doesn't make sense for a lot of things anymore. Education and Health are two great examples. Sure we could have 50 independent fights about what is right for the American people but why should we? Some from your circle like to mention how we don't want to become Europe but how exactly is acting like 50 little mini-nations going to accomplish such a thing.
As I said Libertarianism sounds like a "Do Nothing" Party. The supporters seem to dress it up as if they'd help me protect my life and liberty but the reality is your ideology isn't about help. It's about not regulating, not interfering, and not helping which all sounds lovely until you realize that regulations got us 40 hour work weeks, child labor laws, and a cleaner environment, interfering has been necessary in the past and may be necessary again, and not helping means we continue to pay more for some of the worse healthcare in the civilized world. I don't just mean this as an insult but a recognition when you say you don't want to regulate, interfere, or help than you are promising to "DO NOTHING".Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
moonriderJan 12, 2012
Have you actually studied history? Are you completely unaware that it was not regulation that "got us 40 hour work weeks, child labor laws, and a cleaner environment" those things were coming about before the regulations were written, the regulations really were unnecessary and all they've really done is create barriers to innovation. And who the hell said they didn't want to help, not I! Did you even read my last paragraph?
"with the caveat that when someone's life, liberty, or property (our unalienable rights) are at stake, one takes action by stopping the perpetrator's ability to violate the rights of another in whatever manner necessary to achieve that goal while protecting your own life, liberty and property, too."
No one wants to get rid of the methods for getting recompense for violations of unalienable rights, we libertarians just want those methods to be equitable for all, currently the state if favored over all individuals, it is the individuals who should be foremost in any law enforcement court system. We must make the limited government stick to the rules instead of always skewing things in favor of the government. And if changes should be made to the Constitution follow the rules for that, too. You don't do it by executive order or passing a bill. It requires 2/3 vote in both houses of congress to pass an amendment, and 2/3 of the States to ratify it before it legally changes the Constitution, a good 90% or more of the laws passed in the past 100 years are absolutely unconstitutional. Just because they have not yet been challenged in court (this is where Americans have neglected their duty to enforce the Constitution) does not make them Constitutional laws. And laws which are not Constitutional need not be obeyed:
http://soundofcannons.blogspot.com/2010/12/do-we-have-to-follow-unconstitutional.html
Quoting FTA:
As congress continues its daily deluge of anti-American legislation, its un-American activities, bear in mind that just because congress said it, doesn’t make it so. Consider this opinion of the Supreme Court:
The general misconception is that any statute passed by legislators bearing the appearance of law constitutes the law of the land. The Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the land, and any statue, to be valid, must be in agreement. It is impossible for both the Constitution and a law violating it to be valid; one must prevail. This is succinctly stated as follows:
The general rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having the form and name of law, is in reality no law, but is wholly void, and ineffective for any purpose; since unconstitutionality dates from the time of its enactment, and not merely from the date of the decision so branding it.
An unconstitutional law, in legal contemplation, is as inoperative as if it had never been passed. Such a statute leaves the question that it purports to settle just as it would be had the statute not been enacted.
Since an unconstitutional law is void, the general principals follow that it imposes no duties, confers no rights, creates no office, bestows no power or authority on anyone, affords no protection, and justifies no acts performed under it . . .
A void act cannot be legally consistent with a valid one.
An unconstitutional law cannot operate to supersede any existing valid law.
Indeed, insofar as a statute runs counter to the fundamental law of the land, it is superseded thereby.
No one is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it.
– Sixteenth American Jurisprudence, Second Edition, Section 177. (late 2nd Ed. Section 256)
Keep this in mind when your friends and family, or your elected officials tell you that “it’s the law, you have to.” If that law is arbitrary to the constitution, if it renders you subject to illegal or unconstitutional laws and acts it is in fact, null and void.
end quote
We have too many laws and regulations and most of them are clearly unconstitutional.
"The more corrupt the republic, the more numerous the laws." — Cornelius Tacitus, 55-117 AD, Roman historian
"Probably all laws are useless; for good men do not want laws at all, and bad men are made no better by them." — Demonax - (Roman philosopher, circa 150 A.D.)
"Virtually all reasonable laws are obeyed, not because they are the law, but because reasonable people would do that anyway. If you obey a law simply because it is the law, that's a pretty likely sign that it shouldn't be a law."
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." — H.L. Mencken
"If you think of yourselves as helpless and ineffectual, it is certain that you will create a despotic government to be your master. The wise despot, therefore, maintains among his subjects a popular sense that they are helpless and ineffectual." — Frank Herbert, The Dosadi Experiment
"You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." — Charles Austin Beard, historian
tribbledotJan 12, 2012
What you want as an idealist and what the party you support are not the same. This is true for republicans and democrats too but before you accuse me of not knowing history, I suggest you jump into the now and listen to what Libertarian politicians are actually promising. Peace on earth is a noble goal but is it really in the best interest of this country to move all our troops back to home soil when noone is confronting us on that soil? The free market is also a noble fiction where businesses do what's best for everyone instead of what's best for their pockets and it's not supported by any real or imaginary libertarian history.
I love that you want to help your neighbor and are generally a nice guy. It's irrelevant when the goal of your party is to cut the governments involvement in making sure our lives aren't cut even shorter because we have no access to healthcare because noone (and by noone I'm sure Ron Paul meant the guys who wrote the constitution) guaranteed our health or welfare. It's not based in a reality where we pay double for this sub-par healthcare.
The problem with the constitutional argument is that the document is easily interpreted differently by different people. I don't think this document restricts our rights to protect our people. I do think the document was written at a different time though. It was written before telephone, car, email, internet, or television. It's illogical to claim they didn't intend for us to protect our people or even just keep those costs of taking care of our people less expensive. Libertarians are consistent here though in that they don't interpret clauses differently for citizens vs military personnel or congressman but I'm not sure if I can agree with placing the highest importance on a piece of paper and one mans interpretation over the people and their health.
The basic philosophy of Ron Paul and other libertarians sounds great but it's all spin. His real plans stick close to his political values and would ruin this country. Bring home the troops to a jobless economy? Stop regulating big business so that they have even more incentive to maximize profits outside this country and not inside of it? I'm pretty sure a minimum wage wasn't put into the constitution? The best news is that he would cut his salary to 10% of what the current president earns but at the same time he's also promising that he'll do a lot less work so why would we pay him more?
moonriderJan 12, 2012
I'm female, not a "guy", I'm also 67 years old and have seen our freedom's demise occur ever so gradually until this decade when the government's war on our freedoms has exploded to the point where we not only are living in a police state,they've just about removed our freedom to exercise every one of our unalienable rights.
I support libertarianism, less so the LP as they've been infiltrated by neocons, too. And I support Ron Paul because he is closer to libertarianism than to the GOP as it stands today (he represents the Old Republican party's principles) and because he IS a Constitutionalist, something no other politicians in government at the present time (and for a good long time into the past) seem to be. I support him because his real plan is exactly what I want and does reflect his long held and long lived up to principles.
The Constitution is written in plain language anyone should be able to understand, it is not to be "interpreted" it is to be obeyed to the letter as it is plainly written.
As for the free market, in the absence of government regulation the customers have ALL the power. Monopolies only come about due to government's interference in the free market. A business cannot force you to purchase its products or services without the aid of government. It begins at the local level, your municipality or county grants a monopoly for one business to provide you certain services, you are free to not purchase from the company, but there are no others from which can purchase that same service, so refusing the service of the one "franchised" company means you do without that service altogether. The State mandates you to purchase vehicle insurance, luckily they do not also mandate that you buy from only one franchised company. The federal government, has restricted your right and ability to purchase particular products and services, one kind of light bulbs (your choices now are headache producing fluorescents, which require a hazmat type cleanup if they break, or way too expensive LEDs) and now mandates that you must buy medical insurance. But with a truly free market you can buy from whomever you want. Don't like the way one manufacturer treats its employees? Buy the product from another. Don't like the attitude of the employees in one store? Shop at another. Find a business's activities offensive? Patronize another. The customers determine which businesses thrive or fail when government gets the HELL out of the way and allows the free market to function normally, without interference of any kind.
What Ron Paul is proposing is the ONLY way we are going to survive as an intact union of States, any other choice will see our complete economic collapse, and degradation into the kind of tyranny we've seen arise in other nations. Ron Paul is trying to avert that disastrous end to our Constitutional Republic. Here view this, it'll open your eyes if nothing else:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM&feature=share
sicofitJan 12, 2012
I concur.
tribbledotJan 12, 2012
We have had our liberties taken from us but you don't solve that by generalizing that all laws, regulation, prevention, and help is bad regardless of the actual proof that it is not. You can fight against the laws that you don't like. If a republican or libertarian can threaten to cut all regulation then they could just cut the bad regulation and fat that exists and leave the beneficial and just alone. It's just not good policy to tell the American people that your hands are tied because you interpret the constitution differently than the past. It isn't that important the interpretation though, what is important is whether a program works and is needed and some of these programs libertarians and republicans want to cut are needed and a few less than that work. We need to make that ratio better and I won't disagree with that type of policy when it is presented.
Libertarians want to do nothing and as constitutionalists, they want to restrict the rights of our government to help its people with an argument that the government is inefficient at it and that's a beautiful argument but without a solution, it means nothing. Think a bit on this is bringing all our troops home a wise decision where we have no immediate threat or alternative jobs to give them? It's a crap argument I know, we should stay where we are generally not wanted because we don't have jobs? It's realistic though. That's the issue. You can promise peace and rainbows but the reality is missiles fly farther today and we have no threat from a canadian or mexican invasion.
How would giving 50 mini-nations more power and authority going to stop tyranny? I know the fear that humans are flawed but that applies to all humans and somehow I doubt our founders were against centralizing the power but more scared that a person in Tenessee voice could not be heard in our nations capital. A valid rational belief 200 years ago but not at all today.
I don't want to give all the power to the fed and I think the states play a vital role in our system too but I do think our nations government has a role to play in education, commerce, health, and agriculture. Can they abuse such departments? Absolutely and then you fight against such abuse but ignoring problems is not a solution whatsoever.
ninethirtyJan 10, 2012
Ron Paul rejects evolution in favor of creationism. What more do you need to know about the guy?
GeorgeTheDemocratJan 10, 2012
Since you can not prove either theory, whats the problem.
On the 1st day we had the big bang, ......
johnnysoftwareJan 10, 2012
One thing I have noticed is that communist regimes tend to be dictators and communist dictators tend to order their soldiers to shoot anybody who tries to leave.
Interestingly, the only other person I can think of offhand that gave such an order was Jim Jones, heroin addicted founder of the Jonestown camp in Guyana.
It doesn't really evince much confidence in a government system that keeps saying shoot anyone that tries to leave [because too many really useful people are trying to leave, leaving me with you guys which are just good for shooting people].
Communism believes the state is a transitory thing and should eventually die off. Ron Paul believes it is an evil thing and should be killed off.
It seems like they are both shooting for the same target. So in that case, I think rather than calling him anticommunist, the article could have pointed out he has the same stated goals as communists. Plus, it can be pointed out that getting rid of the government is the goal of anarchist's too.
Democracy is a different form of government where people get to have a say in how they work together.
In a democracy, if someone decides to kill someone and eat them while everyone is sleeping, the group has previously arranged sets of rules for that and can affirm that it really does not want to change those rules by taking a vote.
In a communist/anarchist Ron Paul state, you don't want the government/democracy interfering in anyone's business.
You go to bed the next night, and a couple more people get eaten.
Then, it's every man for himself, and nobody sleeps. I'm not sure this anarchist utopia sounds so great, no matter who is spinning the tale of how we will get there. They all 3 sound like: the road to hell is bumpy but you are immoral if you don't take it.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
sicofitJan 9, 2012
Nobody wants to talk about it but everything these Libertarian assh**es do are purely a Machiavellian and regressive push against civil rights and, IMHO, specifically against most minority (better said: non-whites) citizens. This is the institution of bigotry and will only worsen as there are plenty of bigots here in the US.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
crazyrobertJan 9, 2012
Thanks for providing the dumbest thing I'll read all day.
sicofitJan 11, 2012
Well... from the outside chance that this is not you conscious or even sub-conscious goal, doesn't mean it's not the goal of the largest portion of the movement. You mother-f**kers deny it when I reveal my objections but, when I lay back as another good-old-boy red-neck, you don't hide s**t. So f**k you and your snide remark. If you don't know what I am talking about... then, all apologies. If you do, f**k you. This IS happening. Which side of history will you be on?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
GeorgeTheDemocratJan 10, 2012
Your not the brightest bulb in the room.
sicofitJan 11, 2012
Yeah.... because you say so.
GeorgeTheDemocratJan 12, 2012
Please prove, at anytime in history, that a true Libertarian pushed for regressive civil rights.
Completely contrary to the stated platform of the party.
sicofitJan 12, 2012
They are dialing it back in their trademark Machiavellian way but, yes, Rand Paul has made statements to that effect. You know .... the non-"true Libertarian" who's named RAND. These are simply very smart racists. I am someone who fights against silly conspiracies. I get this energy from the confidences of ACTUAL Libertarians. At least some.... are faking the Liberty part. I believe the some to be a large and scary sum.
GeorgeTheDemocratJan 14, 2012
I see now, can you show me an example of this.