usatoday.com— Romania's government collapsed Monday following weeks of protests against austerity measures, the latest debt-stricken government in Europe to fall in the face of raising public anger over biting cuts.
Feb 6, 2012View in Crawl 4
When politicians voluntarily resign their power, you know the s**t is bad. You can elect someone else, but I don't think that will make the numbers add up any better.
Yes, but it wasn't quite the same now as it was in '89. The people in power now were elected by a democratic system. The protesters demanded the president and the government resign, and in order to stop this social turmoil the government went but the president stayed. I'm just curious how things will play out.
This is the end result of spending too much money that you don't have. Now that people are being forced to pay back the bill it's no surprise they aren't very happy.
you were buried because you told the truth. the same people would burn the internet if they could, just like the Nazi's burnt books they didn't like. funny how those on the left can't see their own censorship.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
He was buried because his comment was simplistic and ultimately wrong. Romania is the victim of corruption and poor leadership (like Greece). They have a flat corporate and income tax (16%) and a very streamlined regulatory structure. They were actually doing fairly well economically before the economic meltdown. This happened while they were still in flux from joining the EU, making things more complicated.
To weather the crisis, they requested a loan from the IMF, but the EU demanded austerity measures in exchange. Taxes were raised, spending was cut and public sector salaries were slashed. Hence, the riots. Austerity was not necessary. It just happens to be the preference of the conservative governments in the EU and it's killing Europe. Had we adopted austerity in the US, the world would be well and truly f**ked.
Simplistic, yes. Cutting all that spending means cutting jobs, both public and private, that rely on that spending. Sure, there's some savings that can be had from better bookkeeping, less corruption, small cuts to services, etc. But if everyone is unemployed, and noone is hiring, and there's no confidence in the system anymore, how are they supposed to bounce back from that?
Spending cuts sound good if you say it fast, but there are consequences to every action. Austerity has already been criticized by many economists. Unfortunately for EU members, they have no choice if they want to be on Team EU. I guess we'll see how it all turns out in a few years.
"Cutting all that spending means cutting jobs" I bet the government collapsing will cut more jobs. What part of spend less than you make do I not understand?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
"I bet the government collapsing will cut more jobs."
Strawman. This government collapse isn't due to spending, it's due to cutting.
"What part of spend less than you make do I not understand?"
A lot, apparently. You're assuming that's the only possible solution to this kind of problem. Government finance is not the same as personal finance. The government is able to step in when the private sector is down to stablize the business cycle. This is classic Keynesian economics:
Keynesian theory has worked in the past where?
If it is such a good idea, why doesn't Greece start printing drachmas again, and spend as much as they like?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
" The government is able to step in when the private sector is down to stablize the business cycle." when was the last time government stepped back out after the market is stable?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
It's been working since the end of the Great Depression.
"If it is such a good idea, why doesn't Greece start printing drachmas again, and spend as much as they like?"
Greece is too far gone for that. Their government is too corrupt and inept. Romania, for example, has a much lower debt to GDP ratio than Greece. Romania was nowhere near needing austerity measures to fix their problems. Greece is one of those rare cases where it *is* necessary.
"when was the last time government stepped back out after the market is stable?"
It depends on what you mean by stepped back out. If you mean not passing massive stimulus bills, then they've stepped back out every time. Keynes advocated mixed markets, so the government is essentially part of the market and plays a key role that the market cannot fill.
It's been working since the end of the Great Depression."
We have NEVER used Keynesian economics. Keynes said to spend during downturns, but to cut spending and have a small government in good times to reduce the debt load acquired during those bad times.
Keynesian theory is just used during downturns to support additional spending, but is quickly forgotten when good times return.
So let me get this straight, corruption caused Romania's problems? The fact that Romania couldn't get loans any other way other than a rescue package (with requirements) 'caused' these riots?
So the over-spending and over-borrowing had nothing to with it?
Romania painted itself into a fiscal corner, they spent money they didn't have. Debt. That is what caused Romania to collapse.
"So by your logic, we should be proportionally worse than they are, yet we're not even close."
Wow, are you really that ignorant? You really have no idea what is coming to the U.S. in the next five years, regardless of party, do you.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Yes, I'm really that ignorant. So please, explain to me what is coming in the next five years. Please help this ignorant rube see the error of his ways.
I'm from Romania ant it's like crom99 said, corruption and poor leadership. Nobody here trusts politicians, there are plenty of cases of corruption at a high level and nobody ever mentioned over-spending and over-borrowing as being the cause of it. They did mention bribes, state property sold at laughable prices and dubious contracts the state has with various firms.
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I think it's funny how we destroy other countries by first killing their leader, then invading the country , then leave it so the people have to fend the country themselves via militia which isn't never enough, then the country goes into civil war and the process starts all over again! No wonder this country is broke, it wants to wipe everyone elses ass, but its own!
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You will submit to my dream and the reality of life. Do not dare avoid the shadow of your own desires to over see the true light that shines in this world. You have no power to fix what is not broken. SUBMIT blah blah blah!
mjm6783Feb 6, 2012
When politicians voluntarily resign their power, you know the s**t is bad. You can elect someone else, but I don't think that will make the numbers add up any better.
crom99Feb 7, 2012
Romanian politicians remember what happened last time the public rose up against their leaders.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OcMwfuTuzw
realityvoidFeb 7, 2012
Yes, but it wasn't quite the same now as it was in '89. The people in power now were elected by a democratic system. The protesters demanded the president and the government resign, and in order to stop this social turmoil the government went but the president stayed. I'm just curious how things will play out.
theboiFeb 6, 2012
the power of ppl in numbers
captswuitsFeb 7, 2012
2nd this
markglFeb 7, 2012
Their country is in the crapper and that is all you have to say?
cosmicsurferFeb 6, 2012
Goldman Sachs hold the paper on Romania too?
realcoolguy9022Feb 6, 2012
This is the end result of spending too much money that you don't have. Now that people are being forced to pay back the bill it's no surprise they aren't very happy.
Closed AccountFeb 6, 2012
you were buried because you told the truth. the same people would burn the internet if they could, just like the Nazi's burnt books they didn't like. funny how those on the left can't see their own censorship.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
crom99Feb 6, 2012
He was buried because his comment was simplistic and ultimately wrong. Romania is the victim of corruption and poor leadership (like Greece). They have a flat corporate and income tax (16%) and a very streamlined regulatory structure. They were actually doing fairly well economically before the economic meltdown. This happened while they were still in flux from joining the EU, making things more complicated.
To weather the crisis, they requested a loan from the IMF, but the EU demanded austerity measures in exchange. Taxes were raised, spending was cut and public sector salaries were slashed. Hence, the riots. Austerity was not necessary. It just happens to be the preference of the conservative governments in the EU and it's killing Europe. Had we adopted austerity in the US, the world would be well and truly f**ked.
Closed AccountFeb 6, 2012
"To weather the crisis, they requested a loan" or cut spending, and yes a rather simple solution.
crom99Feb 6, 2012
Simplistic, yes. Cutting all that spending means cutting jobs, both public and private, that rely on that spending. Sure, there's some savings that can be had from better bookkeeping, less corruption, small cuts to services, etc. But if everyone is unemployed, and noone is hiring, and there's no confidence in the system anymore, how are they supposed to bounce back from that?
Spending cuts sound good if you say it fast, but there are consequences to every action. Austerity has already been criticized by many economists. Unfortunately for EU members, they have no choice if they want to be on Team EU. I guess we'll see how it all turns out in a few years.
Closed AccountFeb 6, 2012
"Cutting all that spending means cutting jobs" I bet the government collapsing will cut more jobs. What part of spend less than you make do I not understand?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
crom99Feb 6, 2012
"I bet the government collapsing will cut more jobs."
Strawman. This government collapse isn't due to spending, it's due to cutting.
"What part of spend less than you make do I not understand?"
A lot, apparently. You're assuming that's the only possible solution to this kind of problem. Government finance is not the same as personal finance. The government is able to step in when the private sector is down to stablize the business cycle. This is classic Keynesian economics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian#Active_fiscal_policy
Closed AccountFeb 6, 2012
Keynesian theory has worked in the past where?
If it is such a good idea, why doesn't Greece start printing drachmas again, and spend as much as they like?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountFeb 6, 2012
" The government is able to step in when the private sector is down to stablize the business cycle." when was the last time government stepped back out after the market is stable?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
crom99Feb 6, 2012
"Keynesian theory has worked in the past where?"
It's been working since the end of the Great Depression.
"If it is such a good idea, why doesn't Greece start printing drachmas again, and spend as much as they like?"
Greece is too far gone for that. Their government is too corrupt and inept. Romania, for example, has a much lower debt to GDP ratio than Greece. Romania was nowhere near needing austerity measures to fix their problems. Greece is one of those rare cases where it *is* necessary.
crom99Feb 6, 2012
"when was the last time government stepped back out after the market is stable?"
It depends on what you mean by stepped back out. If you mean not passing massive stimulus bills, then they've stepped back out every time. Keynes advocated mixed markets, so the government is essentially part of the market and plays a key role that the market cannot fill.
auditortuxFeb 7, 2012
@Krom
""Keynesian theory has worked in the past where?"
It's been working since the end of the Great Depression."
We have NEVER used Keynesian economics. Keynes said to spend during downturns, but to cut spending and have a small government in good times to reduce the debt load acquired during those bad times.
Keynesian theory is just used during downturns to support additional spending, but is quickly forgotten when good times return.
realcoolguy9022Feb 7, 2012
So let me get this straight, corruption caused Romania's problems? The fact that Romania couldn't get loans any other way other than a rescue package (with requirements) 'caused' these riots?
So the over-spending and over-borrowing had nothing to with it?
Romania painted itself into a fiscal corner, they spent money they didn't have. Debt. That is what caused Romania to collapse.
Debt is the biggest problem facing so a number of countries right now.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
crom99Feb 7, 2012
Their debt to GDP ratio is far below ours. So by your logic, we should be proportionally worse than they are, yet we're not even close.
If you don't believe what I wrote, look it up. You have the internet. Google is your friend.
superkendallFeb 7, 2012
"So by your logic, we should be proportionally worse than they are, yet we're not even close."
Wow, are you really that ignorant? You really have no idea what is coming to the U.S. in the next five years, regardless of party, do you.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
crom99Feb 7, 2012
@superkendall
Yes, I'm really that ignorant. So please, explain to me what is coming in the next five years. Please help this ignorant rube see the error of his ways.
markglFeb 7, 2012
You'll never convince crom99 there is anything wrong.
crom99Feb 7, 2012
@markgl
You certainly won't convince him there is anything wrong without actually trying to convince him, that's for sure.
realityvoidFeb 7, 2012
I'm from Romania ant it's like crom99 said, corruption and poor leadership. Nobody here trusts politicians, there are plenty of cases of corruption at a high level and nobody ever mentioned over-spending and over-borrowing as being the cause of it. They did mention bribes, state property sold at laughable prices and dubious contracts the state has with various firms.
markglFeb 7, 2012
Yeah because asking a country to pay their bills and cut back spending is just terribly wrong and therefore we must protest!
crom99Feb 7, 2012
If your salary was slashed 25% by corrupt politicians, you'd be pretty pissed, too.
deanbonneyFeb 6, 2012
absolutely agree with you, Romania relaxed after integration in the Eurozone, and took the wrong way
wuricleFeb 7, 2012
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battmannFeb 7, 2012
I think it's funny how we destroy other countries by first killing their leader, then invading the country , then leave it so the people have to fend the country themselves via militia which isn't never enough, then the country goes into civil war and the process starts all over again! No wonder this country is broke, it wants to wipe everyone elses ass, but its own!
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tiberiusviperFeb 7, 2012
The prime minister resigns but the president who is responsible for the mess remains in function , political bulls.it
muhammadyasin2011Feb 7, 2012
Romanian politicians remember what happened last time the public rose up against their leaders.
mandrakelordFeb 6, 2012
This is the New World Order plan for all countries. Wake up people we live in a prison.
assassyn360Feb 7, 2012
I like my dream. YOU wake up.
mandrakelordFeb 7, 2012
No... you get poisoned by Monsanto GMO foods and whatever far reaching ambitions you have will be shot down by these suppressing scum.
I refuse your ignorant dream slavery world. which is reality btw.... I intend to see that fixed!Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
assassyn360Feb 7, 2012
You will submit to my dream and the reality of life. Do not dare avoid the shadow of your own desires to over see the true light that shines in this world. You have no power to fix what is not broken. SUBMIT blah blah blah!
mandrakelordFeb 8, 2012
... Ooh yup
Cool story bro
assassyn360Feb 8, 2012
Now you understand. Life is a story.
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eremos13Feb 6, 2012
There were protests in Romania...?