Users who Dugg This
Ninure da Hippie
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Talking Points Memo
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roofviewMar 15, 2011
Is the means test to become a Republican that you must be f--ked in the head?
charlotte_webMar 16, 2011
If true, I think the statement is reprehensible.
But let's not do something absolutely ridiculous like taking the isolated statement of a state politician, and trying to paint the whole party with it.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
hhusskMar 16, 2011
You are correct; just because Obama said there was 57 states doesn't mean that every Democrat blindly agrees.
charlotte_webMar 16, 2011
You know what? I gave Obama a pass on that one as soon as I heard it; I just chalked it up to exhaustion. Everybody says stupid things from time to time.
I think it's more important to debate people on what they actually believe.
hhusskMar 16, 2011
Sorry about that, Charlotte, I know it sounded sarcastic to your original comment, but the reason I threw the "Obama/57" in there was to show that people on both sides make stupid comments.
...and I don't recall too much uproar when Obama said that or "typical white person".
Anyhow, I actually DO agree with you. :)
rgb86Mar 17, 2011
The difference, of course, is that Obama's mistake was a slip of the tongue. The matter of this article, on the other hand, is completely deliberate. They are in no wait equivalent.
hhusskMar 17, 2011
Actually, the difference is that you are justifying Obama, a Democrat, but failing to apply that same rationale to the Republican.
That's all.
jdenzerMar 17, 2011
"I don't recall too much uproar when Obama said that or "typical white person".
Then you don't recall much, do you? B/c the right was livid about this. And yes the left was mostly silent. But then both side do it. So that is nothing new.
kuzotzMar 17, 2011
dude, some republican says this and we suppose to say its a slip of the tounge? how come white republicans are allowed to f**k up, but black people aren't. notice this standard. wonder why black professionals no matter what field they are in end up being the best? Because they are judged much harsher, given less of a chance to even prove themselves, one mistake means the end of their career, and of course they're constantly havin gtheir position in society questioned as if they didn't earn it while having to work harder to earn it. meanwhile this GOPer says something hateful, even harmful to the lives of millions as it appeals to racist, and we give this assh**e the benefit of the doubt?
jdenzerMar 17, 2011
The only problem with your 57 state example is that it wasn't offensive. Unless you count the states as being offended. And it wasn't a stupid thing to say. It was actually a gaffe or mistake. Saying you want to shoot illegals like pigs is no gaffe or mistake. It is proof of how you feel. You do know the difference?
Which is a bad example for hhusk to use.
jdenzerMar 16, 2011
Nice try, try telling that to your party. It is not like he was some talk radio host or your neighbor. And let's not forget, he never actually said "I am sorry". Instead he offered one of those "if you were offended" BS responses. Which basically means if you were offended, oh well, but if you weren't offended. Well then thanks for being on my side of hate.
charlotte_webMar 16, 2011
He did apologize:
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/03/16/Lawmaker-apologizes-for-immigration-remark/UPI-56341300283308/
hhusskMar 16, 2011
Well, it looks like the next "talking point" will be people trying to say "he didn't mean it."
Thanks for pointing out that link.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
jdenzerMar 16, 2011
"Peck said in the signed one-page statement. "
You call that an apology? Two sentences? So if I were to call your mother a dirty filthy whore in front of an audience.
You would be fine w/ a signed statement that read "My statements were regrettable. Please accept my apology"?
Or what if it was a black Democratic lawmaker who said the exact same thing, Peck said instead w/ white woman.
Would a 2 sentence statement be enough?
hhusskMar 17, 2011
That's the point, jdenzer. It only takes two words to apologize.
Just because you don't like, or accept, the apology, doesn't mean it wasn't given.
Refine your argument.
jdenzerMar 17, 2011
@hhussk
No, it take more than just two words. It takes sincerity. And that was certainly not a sincere apology.
It's kind of like a husband that verbally abuses his wife, then apologizes. Only to do it again the next day. In the end those words mean nothing.
And if your 'only takes two words to apologize' standard is what it takes to be sincere and truly regret what one says. They what stops a person or group from continuing to give this verbal abuse and just give the two word apology.
Like the abusive husband, when is it enough. When do you stop accepting this two word apology and start holding people accountable for their verbal abuse.
charlotte_webMar 17, 2011
Just curious, what's your reaction to this?
http://digg.com/news/politics/wisconsin_michelle_litjens_reacts_democrat_says_f**king_dead_the_daily_caller_breaking_news_opinion_research_and_entertainment
A Wisconsin Democrat representative tells a female Republican representative, "You're f**king dead!" for her vote on the state budget.
jdenzerMar 17, 2011
My feeling is that it's totally out of line. That being said. He did actually call her personally, which is something I have never heard a GOP member do. Not like the lame ass apology statement from Peck. So before you try and equate the two, let's remember who actually apologized and who didn't.
And just as those on the right like to excuse the GOP fort their colorful language and reference to violence. This does not compare to "Let's Shoot Illegal Immigrants Like Pigs" There is no gray area here. Unlike when people use the expression "I could kill you" or "you are dead to me"
'"I was just speaking like a southeast Kansas person," "
-Peck
It seems to me like Peck wanted to be clear that Kansas people think and talk like that. That is not the left making this statement.
What else you got?
charlotte_webMar 17, 2011
Yeah, I figured you'd try to justify it since it involved a Democrat.
However, Peck's comment was a general statement, whereas Hintz's comment was a threat of violence directed at a specific person. I'd say a threat against a specific person is more egregious, regardless of party affiliation.
jdenzerMar 17, 2011
@charolette
What part of "My feeling is that it's totally out of line." did you miss? You do understand that you have to read the words in order for it to make sense?
How did I actually justify what he said. Tell me the part where I said "He is right, b/c . . . "
And yeah I figured you would pull some "But But the a Dem did it . . . " to justify Peck comments.
schmibMar 16, 2011
Certainly, there are many Republicans who do truly care about their country and are generally good people.
Unfortunately, It seems like on an almost weekly basis, there is a GOP politician somewhere that says things like this. Remember a week or two ago when that attorney general in Indiana said they should use live ammo on the Wisconsin protesters? Or "We don't retreat, we reload?" Or "we might have to resort to 2nd Amendment remedies?"
I'm not trying to talk trash, and I am a Democrat, but seriously, this is getting out of hand. If you are a more moderate, reasonable Republican, please work towards sending the lunatic fringe in your party back to the fringes where it belongs.
Again, I do not mean to trash conservatives, who I think usually have good intentions even though I don't always agree with them. But the members of your party have got to start putting your feet down when somebody starts to advocate shooting people. It's becoming less and less isolated, and it's reached the point now where people like this guy don't even apologize anymore!
hhusskMar 16, 2011
Well, in a way you are talking trash, because there were Democrats who were crying about "civility" during the Arizona shooting, but then linking Gov. Walker to Hitler and the Nazi Regime on the floor of the house.
You're argument is simply....one-sided.
And if you are holding "your party" accountable, I'd like to know what you've done and how you've done it. Because, typically, it's one side versus the other, scoring political points.
schmibMar 16, 2011
I was not talking trash. If a Democrat had said that we should hunt Mexicans like feral hogs, I would be upset with that too.
There is a pretty obvious difference here. One party has politicians that have advocated shooting people and the other doesn't. While it may be in poor taste to make Hitler comparisons, it is not quite the same.
What the Democrats have done is not let hate spewing lunatics out of party primaries. Conservatives are better than that and shouldn't. They didn't used to.
hhusskMar 16, 2011
Ok then, let's see what you'll do now:
"Sometimes it's necessary to get out on the streets and get a little bloody," Rep. Michael Capuano (D-Mass.), advocating violence against Wisconsin Republicans
"It really is time for Americans to take up pitchforks."
~Sen. Claire McCaskill, inciting violence if Democrats were not allowed to raise taxes on the rich.
You can also google "jesse jackson", "violence" and "Wisconsin" if you want to hear the reverend advocate violence against the government.
Alright, now you explain how you're calling for all these Democrats to be cast out of the the Democrat Party.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
hhusskMar 16, 2011
Also, another note:
Now you're narrowing your argument to "shooting people". How is it that your outrage is limited to that, while you've nonchalantly ignored having former Sen. Robert Byrd, once Ku Klux Klan leader, in your party?
Are you ok with racism, unless they use guns? As long as they don't talk about it?
Puh-lease...Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
schmibMar 16, 2011
First of all, saying that Democrats are racist because one senator was in the KKK once (that was before he wasn't in the KKK and voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1968) is ridiculous.
Pretending that Democrats spout the same amount of violent rhetoric as Republicans is also ridiculous. While I agree that McCaskill and Capuano were out of line and should be held responsible, there are easily that many reprehensible comments coming from the far right on a weekly basis.
And anyways, they were talking about unprecedented and drastic policies, not indiscriminately slaughtering people.
Also the D’s comments could be interpreted as metaphorical. There was nothing metaphorical about that Indiana Att. General's and Peck’s comments. They just flat out that said shoot ‘em.
And finally, Jesse Jackson isn’t an elected official, so he really has nothing to do with this.
hhusskMar 17, 2011
And yet, what you are doing is labelling the entire GOP for the words of one man, while excusing people in your party.
jdenzerMar 17, 2011
@hhusk
Not one man. It seems to be a pattern among GOP leaders. Yes if he had said the earth is flat. And we labeled all republican as earth flat believers. Then you might have a case. But since this seems to be a pattern withe the GOP.
inakamonMar 15, 2011
I wonder if he sounded like this when he was campaigning. I wish I could say with confidence that he won't be re-elected.
ghengiskhan1Mar 15, 2011
What an idiot. Even if he really thinks this, he has to understand that he cannot actually say it out loud around other people.
Well, I guess give the guy some credit for being brutally honest about how he feels.
hhusskMar 16, 2011
I don't know the context of the statement (don't really care right now), but I'd say you are correct. Even if he was appealling to a racist audience, it was a foolish thing to say. (Even if he was joking).
schmibMar 16, 2011
It seems that recently here, at least in certain parts of the country, saying stuff like this is the key to getting elected. It's really gone beyond crazy at this point.
sharpestoolMar 15, 2011
I have to give him credit for being so forth right with his intentions. If Scott Walker had said in his campaign to the Wisconsin electorate that he was going to screw the middle class and pay his pimp with the proceeds, I am not sure he would have been elected.
soonerdmMar 16, 2011
Family values at its finest
eboyMar 16, 2011
Wow.
shoelessschippaMar 16, 2011
"Asked about his comment, Peck was unapologetic. "I was just speaking like a southeast Kansas person," he said. "
- Note to self...never go to southeast Kansas
brewbeauMar 16, 2011
It kind of reveals what a lot of us already know. That this wasn't a poor joke or just a rotten apple of a man, but rather the reality of a large portion of the isolated people in this country.
entroperMar 16, 2011
I wonder how actual southeast Kansans feel about his comment.
brewbeauMar 16, 2011
I think you'd probably find the majority would, albeit tacitly, agree with that statement. I grew up in suburban Missouri and it's the same there. A vastly homogeneous region, both racially and religiously, is going to be xenophobic to a certain extent. What's interesting, is that members of my family and also friends that I grew up with who never left, will make nasty comments like that but also realize that it was a nasty comment and feel some remorse when called on it. I guess it's a good sign of growth.
nuiloaMar 16, 2011
Weren't these the same people screaming about fascism just last summer?
The irony boggles...
schmibMar 16, 2011
Yes.
They were calling Democrats fascists one day and socialists another, which is ironic because, as it turns out, real-life fascists and socialists didn't actually get along so well. It really shows how ignorant certain parts of our society have become.
It is very worrisome, at least to anyone who's actually studied Mussolini and Hitler. The appeals to patriotism, unwillingness to compromise, unapologetic advocating of shooting certain groups of people, portrayal of those with different points of view as either treacherous haters of the country or bleeding heart cowards (usually both), appeals to religion, justification of torture, rejection of unbiased news outlets in favor of one-sided propaganda media– those were all things that fascists did.
I think there's a cliche that's appropriate here, something about those who don't know history being bound to repeat it, but I can't quite remember...
Before everyone gets heated: I know there are plenty of decent, reasonable conservatives in this country. They really need to regain control of their party. They are going to have to, because liberals are already labeled as "the enemy." Hopefully, statements like this one from Peck will get decent conservatives mobilized.
kuzotzMar 17, 2011
nope it will only get worse. I'm going to go expat again in Singapore. Sure singapore isn't a democracy, but you know. I dont have to pay attention to politics at that point :P
schmibMar 17, 2011
Yeah it can be pretty discouraging at times, but I hope for the sake of everyone that it gets less crazy soon.
lalongecarabineMar 16, 2011
Now it's very clear why I'm no longer a Republican. What a stupid, counter-productive, useless thing to say. I would like to point out that not all people from Kansas agree with or spew hate like this a$$ hole.
nairebisMar 16, 2011
Who is more stupid -- this guy, who makes a tasteless joke, or people who seriously think he would sign a bill authorizing shooting illegal aliens on sight from helicopters.
It's a tasteless joke, nothing more, nothing less. If you think he was serious, then congratulations, you are officially Part Of The Problem.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
pnorth12Mar 16, 2011
Stupidity? Your missing the point. It doesn't really have anything to do with if he'd sign a bill that authorized it. The people who are "Part of the Problem" are those that support thier official representing them in this manner. His statement sounds like something a third grader would say. Actually I should give more credit to third graders...
hhusskMar 16, 2011
Good point: this is another camera "gotcha", tasteless comment that got caught on the microphone.
It doesn't excuse him, but it doesn't, and shouldn't, label the people of Kansas, or the GOP, or the USA.
theswashbucklerMar 16, 2011
Problem is these kinds of comments from Republicans aren't unusual. And no, you don't hear Dems saying these kinds of things nearly as often.
hhusskMar 16, 2011
What do you mean? Are we supposed to compare the number of Republican vs. Democrat racist comments...and then the "winner" is the "party of racists"?
That's disingenous.
Look; if you want to tag one party as "racist", and then say that the other party isn't racist because they don't make racist comments "nearly as often", that's your perrogative. But it will not serve you in many arguments.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
nuiloaMar 16, 2011
Do Democrats make racist comments? I'd like to see some, because Republicans make them a lot.
hhusskMar 16, 2011
Ok. Tell me who said, "My Grandmother was a typical white person."
hhusskMar 16, 2011
Tell me who said: "You cannot go to a 7-11 or Dunkin Donuts unless you have a slight Indian Accent."
hhusskMar 16, 2011
Can you guess who said, "Mahatma Gandhi "ran a gas station down in Saint Louis."?
schmibMar 16, 2011
Obama said his grandmother was a typical white person. So what?
Biden made the 7-11 comment, which sounds bad if you don't realize that it was taken completely out of context. He also said that they are engineers, scientists and physicians and was making the point that they make a positive impact on the economy.
And Hillary made the Gandhi comment, which in fairness, was a pretty tasteless joke. Of course, that was in 2004, and if you have to look that far back to find something bad that she said, that sort of undermines your point.
theswashbucklerMar 16, 2011
"That's disingenous."
lol Only if you aren't interested in reality.
Like it or not, the type of comments we get from members of a group does indicate how the group feels. When members of a group consistently say violent things, that matters. When members of a group consistently say inaccurate things, that matters. When you're a member of that group, you just may want to reconsider remaining a member of that group. Or, you may be a Republican and not give a s**t.
hhusskMar 16, 2011
"Like it or not, the type of comments we get from members of a group does indicate how the group feels."
Well, what's your response to these comments:
"My grandmother was a typical white person."
~President Obama
"You cannot go to a 7-11 or Dunkin Donuts unless you have a slight Indian Accent."
-Senator Joe Biden
Mahatma Gandhi "ran a gas station down in Saint Louis."
-Senator Hillary ClintonComment is buried, click here to see the rest.
schmibMar 16, 2011
Reposting from above because it's relevant here:
Obama said his grandmother was a typical white person. So what?
Biden made the 7-11 comment, which sounds bad if you don't realize that it was taken completely out of context. He also said that they are engineers, scientists and physicians and was making the point that they make a positive impact on the economy.
And Hillary made the Gandhi comment, which in fairness, was a pretty tasteless joke. Of course, that was in 2004, and if you have to look that far back to find something bad that she said, that sort of undermines your point.
schmibMar 16, 2011
There is a sort of a recurring progression that has historically preceded really horrible events that we probably should avoid.
It goes something like this: One group of people starts saying "I don't like those other people that are different." Then, it gets to "something should be done about them" to "we need to get really tough on them" to "maybe we should shoot them (haha sorry I was just joking)" to "seriously, we really should shoot them" to "yeah we shot them, and it was the right thing to do."
It's a process of desensitizing one side (so that such ideas become less shocking over time) while dehumanizing the other (I don't know what could be more dehumanizing than suggesting feral hog hunting techniques for people) that takes place over years.
Fortunately, we haven't reached the point where we actually consider the wholesale slaughter of Mexicans, but statements like this take us further down that road.
nairebisMar 16, 2011
I've been sitting here for several minutes trying to figure out how to reply to this totally absurd notion that tasteless jokes will lead to genocide in any imaginable way, but I can't. You win the ridiculous hyperbole award.
schmibMar 16, 2011
Well it's really not that hard. Comments like Peck's desensitize and dehumanize, which is what has to happen before such an event takes place. I don't know how to spell it out any better.
I could probably spend the rest of my life sitting and trying to figure out how you don't find that much of a problem with this "tasteless joke."
How could you not find this disturbing? What planet are you from?
nairebisMar 16, 2011
I'm on the planet where 99% of everyone has made and/or laughed at a tasteless joke in their life. Sorry, but jokes don't really disturb me too much. This politician was a dumb-ass to make the joke in the venue he made it, but to be "disturbed" by it is just silly, and yes, it means you are part of the problem. It means you can't distinguish between things that really matter and things that don't, and THAT is a huge problem these days (just look at our budgetary problems and the things people have fits about).
When I was 12 or 13, "dead baby" jokes were all the rage in middle school. Do you seriously think the kids grew up to be desensitized to infanticide? People are not mindless robots. Many jokes depend on shock value for their humor.
mindtappedMar 16, 2011
How do you spot a sociopath?
A sociopath has no conscience, no ability to feel shame, guilt or remorse. Since 1 in 25 ordinary Americans is a sociopath, you almost certainly know one or more than one already. How can you recognize him or her?
* They say s**t like this.
Closed AccountMar 16, 2011
when does enough become enough? whether someone invades your land to take it by armed force or invades by quietly moving in next door, the result is still the same: your land is occupied by foreigners. when it's occupied to such an extent that the local population is literally outnumbered or pushed out, the result is still the same.
we're already at overpopulation. since 1970, more immigrants have come to the US than the entire baseline US population. That means more than 150 million people either came here by 1970 or are descendants of those who came here by 1970.
Immigrants might be looking for a better life, but at this point that better life is bought at the expense of the livelihood of american citizens. the US makes up 1/25th of the worlds population, it cannot support the world on its back.
We've tried playing nice and being civil, and they outright ignore it. If the US keeps going in that direction it's only going to end up more and more like the countries these immigrants come from.
Even the founding fathers would advocate shooting immigrants, because they weren't sheltered pansies and knew that you have to fight to keep what's yours from falling into the hands of others. Instead, we're just handing the country over to them without a fight. And before you know it the country is soo populated with immigrants there is not enough people left to fight or care.
I guarantee you that somewhere down the line, even when immigrants completely overtake the US, they will step up and want to put an end to immigration, you know - that thing they and their grandparents did. and they'll do that because they'll be fed up with all the consequences of rampant immigrant. so we'll have a nation made up of fairly RECENT immigrants telling future immigrants they are not welcome. So why can't we do that before the original US population is gone?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
delphium226Mar 16, 2011
So you're a native american? I'm guessing so since you're complaining about immigrants overruning the US.
murxMar 16, 2011
Yo fugghead....
"the US makes up 1/25th of the worlds population, it cannot support the world on its back."
US has even 1/22th of the worlds population!
But the US 'owns' 1/15th of the worlds landmass - so it is fair to assume the US should be capable to support 1/15th of the world population - and that's ~450 million...
So go away you idiotic crybaby...
monicka9Mar 16, 2011
I wonder if he would think it is funny to joke about abortion, or is that off limits?
mikelistMar 16, 2011
how about he get in his helicopter and hunt us businesses who knowingly hire and exploit illegal immigrants? they come mostly for jobs, not to learn english by immersion.
if there are no jobs for them, the flow will decrease, however there are many businesses who would like to be able to take advantage of the low wages and hesitance to complain about unsafe conditions that illegals are subject to.
kuzotzMar 17, 2011
and I think having a process of allowing skilled labor in legally should be done it'll actually stabilize Mexico, and help the US in the long run. But dunno everything a conservative gov't touches turns to s**t. 2000 in Mexico conservatives gained power. Now the f**king drug cartels are in all out war in the border cities. WTF? Meanwhile we forget how much capital is generated in Mexico City (N. America's largest city btw)
doskrautMar 16, 2011
Well you people miss the point; it is illegal aliens who commit the most crimes. Just look at prison population by race. Then there is welfare, social security, bilingual schools, lost jobs”factory, warehouse and so on”. Then are kids, they use to work in fast food for summer money, collage expanses but not today. in some cities Spanish is all you hear. Look at italy france germany they passed laws on what language one speaks, in some parts of berlin it was middle eastern spoken no german. Yes Peck was wrong but his point is clear, if nothing is done this country is doomed. I had to leave my home because of their reconquistar.i saw this cultural imperialism problem in Europe and soon here as well. a good example: look at job listings you will see bilingual Spanish jobs in office, customer service.yeah illegal aliens only take jobs Americans won’t do, I lost my tech job to a MexicanComment is buried, click here to see the rest.
delphium226Mar 16, 2011
It sounds to me like you could have used some collective bargaining rights ;)
afterforever21Mar 16, 2011
While I do think immigration is a big problem due to many factors [mainly on the Mexican side], to suggest that we hunt them down like animals is just plain deplorable. f**k you Virgil Prick [<--see what I did there?]
protogenxlMar 16, 2011
If we are going to do that we might as well start eating babies.
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1080/1080-h/1080-h.htm
generalbulldogMar 16, 2011
Joking in Congress, which still wrong given where we are right now as a country, is one thing. Joking about killing immigrants, when the country was built by immigrants, is another. Not only that the son of a gun had the gall to justify his comment by saying, he "was just speaking like a southeast Kansas person." You are an insult to your state.
ferretmanMar 17, 2011
Hmmmmmm...this is *probably* a bit drastic, though I suspect it would *work*.....
I think we can do better though.
ferretmanMar 17, 2011
Hmmmmmm...this is *probably* a bit drastic, though I suspect it would *work*.....
I think we can do better though.
flaviom1976Mar 17, 2011
The right-wing is focused on defeated Obama in 2012. Interestingly enough, their loonies are saying things so out there that they going to guarantee Obama gets a second term.