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blackoculusJun 30, 2011
My mom is quickly climbing the bible beater ladder.... still haven't found a way to break it to her that I'm Athiest.
darkphenoxJun 30, 2011
Honestly it is either you tell her straight up or you don't tell her at all, there are pros and cons to both.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2011
Hey black ... just tell her no.
When I was 13, I dropped out of confirmation and told MY mother no.
Now.... later in life, I realized that I was wrong and that I believed in Jesus and Jesus intervened in my life...but ... I was a right PISTOL in my teen years.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
ikorkyiJun 30, 2011
to each his own coping mechanism i guess
life is tough
starmanjonesJun 30, 2011
seems to me... you might still be accused of being pistol like. those kids that do it. i'd kill my kids for doing most of the s**t i did at least one of thems... age. :D
D1gst1llsuxJun 30, 2011
I faced that same dilemma when I told my parents. If they truly love you, they will except you for who you are and not what you believe. If they don't or can't except you after telling them than I would say that probably don't love you as much as you think they do.
johnnysoftwareJun 30, 2011
If she is really tuned in to you then she either knows you are or realizes she is not at all sure you are and haven't asked, unless you are actively concealing the fact from he when various topics come up.
If you are going to church meetings once or twice a week though, then don't blame her for not knowing!
taiyoryuJul 2, 2011
accept
norman619Jun 30, 2011
Don't bother. Unless you are looking to damage your relationship with your mom. There is no reason you need to tell her anything. I don't get why people feel this need to proclaim their religious views or lack of them to people who have the opposite views.
tmazzJun 30, 2011
Because when someone is a bible beater, that defines their life. It becomes their rational for most of their life decisions. So if you dont feel the same, she will start to figure it out eventually. You can only fake it for so long.
norman619Jun 30, 2011
Not really. You underestimate the parent's ability to ignore certain things about their kids they wish weren't true. Most parents do this to some degree.
corvetteaustin24Jun 30, 2011
It sounds like you have an awesome relationship with your mom... You give horrible advice, I sincerely hope nobody listens to you or heeds your advice in anyway.
norman619Jun 30, 2011
You are quite naive.
tsuruchibrianJul 1, 2011
Because some people suck at lying (like me).
I can't maintain a charade for very long.
Luckily my family is not very religious, but I can't think of a good answer to "Why do you have all these Dan Dennett books?" very fast.
I can't censor what I say very well. I can't do the social arithmetic, to figure out whats appropriate in every circumstance. I just try to limit myself to social situations where what I say won't get me into trouble. There are times when it is important to be a fake version of yourself (i.e. job interviews, public speeches, etc)
I would not like to have time with close family members be time where I must be fake.
texasjim1093Jun 30, 2011
It is all about boundaries, you have to let people be who they want to be and insist they respect you for who you are as well. Don't worry so much about the 1% or 2% of stuff you disagree on and focus on the things you share. I know the religious can get pretty upset when you don't believe as they do. My experience is that if you show them some understanding and that as a nonbeliever you are caring, responsible human being, things can change.
I feel awkward on holidays at my family dinner table when they are praying but I remain quiet and respectful. If anybody gets too critical of my non-belief, I simply ask them if they would like to get some strings and attach them to my arms so they can control me like a puppet, that way I can live my life the exact way they want me to, that usually shuts them up. I find this puppet analogy effective when there is a temptation for me to tell friends or family about their religious views. I can state what I believe but should tread cautiously into the realm of what others should do, which should always be an invitation only event. A well lived life is all about boundaries.
ooglerJun 30, 2011
I struggle with this as well but I find lately that I am less inclined to give way to the irrationality. Focusing on the things we share is a very good strategy but, in my experience, there is an inevitability that the conflict will rear up at some point.
Such as the scolding letters I've received throughout my adult life from a mother who loves me but sees no issue with using the notion of her grandchildren's, (my kids), 'eternal damnation' as an acceptable way to coerce my adherance to her faith. It's so arrogant, so hurtful and so ultimately unncessary. When I see the intolerance of religiosity and the mind-numbing obfuscation of responsiblity for ones own actions, especially in the Christian tradition, I often feel outraged at their arrogance and duplicity. It's something the religous are not used to seeing/experiencing and as participants in a mostly fear-driven enterprise it just gets them frothing at the mouth even more. So be it. I think they are collectively long overdue for some serious descent.
That being said I agree with you on one other key point - many of my rights end where your nose begins - and vice versa. Too bad they can't get this through their thick skulls.
texasjim1093Jun 30, 2011
That sucks. Sounds like eternal damnation might be preferable to your mothers interference.
My suggestion is do not address the validity of her religious arguments, only discuss her crossing boundaries.
I usually separate the behavior from the argument and don't let them bring up justifications for bad behavior. I let them know that my boundaries need to be respected, period. They will start to say "But, but..." shut them down, keep addressing the boundary and the consequences for crossing the line.
Usually it is best to start out small, then escalate as people need fair warning to start changing their behavior in response to a different circumstance. It works or they bounce themselves out of your life and show they care more about controlling you than loving you. Without consequences and choices they will keep doing the same thing over and over again.
Dysfunctional people often push the edges of their belief system so whether it is religion, politics or whatever, they will use these beliefs to try and find a way to control the behavior of others with their absolute certainty of their dogma as their weapon.
Best of luck, Jim
starmanjonesJun 30, 2011
very professional advice. whether you are a professional or not.
texasjim1093Jun 30, 2011
Thanks, my family is super crazy and a really great therapist taught me how to handle boundaries within relationships. Changed my life for the better, my life isn't perfect but it is much better than it was. My family gets along much better as well.
delphium226Jun 30, 2011
Start dressing like a goth, sacrifice a chicken on the dining room table, and then when she asks you if you're a satanist, say 'No, I'm a Christian! How dare you!'
cboswelJun 30, 2011
What a person chooses to believe is very personal to them. Even though she is your mother, your beliefs are your own business.
rblancarteJun 30, 2011
IMHO, just tell her. She is your parent. It is called unconditional love. If it comes with strings attached, then there is a BIG problem in your relationship. And putting it of doesn't help anyone.
bluenose2Jun 30, 2011
Be honest with her as well as yourself.
starmanjonesJun 30, 2011
say... mom... the behavior of religions in america today has brought me to the conclusion that its all just wrong. at the moment i'm an atheist.
that suggests that trying to indoctrinate you would counter productive. then cross your fingers.
angrycat70Jun 30, 2011
>>Is it time to counter religious bullying?
Past time.
vbdonJun 30, 2011
How do we end the bullying by anti-religious organizations?? All they ever do is attack the innocent for simply exercising their Constitutional rights.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
dspgeekJun 30, 2011
If you guys would keep that s**t in your own corner then we wouldn't have to be so goddamn vehement about defending OUR Constitutional rights.
treehugger87Jun 30, 2011
To make an analogy, if my son ended up having a nervous breakdown because the 6th grade boys all surround him on the playground every day at school and call him a "fag", you would say all they are doing is exercising their Constitutional rights?
vbdonJul 1, 2011
Like many anti-religionists, you talked your son into putting himself against his classmates. You used him to set up a situation so you could claim victimhood. That was just plain child abuse but an anti-religion crusader like you has no problem sacrificing his son for your own self gratification. It's too bad, animals like you will never be able to take responsibility for your crimes.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
divisionalJul 1, 2011
vbdon apparently doesn't understand what an "analogy" is, and rather than look it up, calls you a child abuser and an animal.
LOL
It's always a treat to see the similarities between religious zealots and drug addicts, just laid right out there like that... Amazing.
treehugger87Jul 1, 2011
@vbdon. You are so awesome. You are totally right. I talked my son into being gay. He wasn't really into it, but I figure what better way to put himself against his classmates?
It's clearly my fault. If my 11 year-old son wasn't such a fag, the 6th grade boys would no doubt leave him alone. I LOVE being the victim, though, so I couldn't help myself.
All kidding aside, my son is the coolest kid alive. He could probably kick your ass (3rd degree black belt). If he wants to be gay, I'm cool with that. If he wants to be a Pentecostal preacher I'm cool with that, too.
As for you, you really need to come to terms with who Jesus was versus the way you feel. Jesus taught us all to love our neighbor as if he were our brother. Jesus would not tolerate killing in his name. If your beliefs are all real, there are many who call themselves devout Christians who will suffer and eternity and more for using the name of Christ to inflict pain and suffering on others. Do you really love your (liberal) brothers? Are you using Christ's love to excuse your bad behavior?
vbdonJul 1, 2011
Wow, citing Jesus after convincing your son to claim there is no God. You need to really sit down and decide what you believe before you screw your son's head up even more.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
treehugger87Jul 1, 2011
You are so dense. It's like having a conversation with a dodgy old man.
Screw him up by sending him to God camp? But wait, when did I ever say that I would tell my son to disavow god or religion?
I know enough about Christianity to know when I am talking to someone who does not follow the path of Christ, even though he claims to. Religion, especially Christ's teachings, is not an excuse to hate or make yourself believe you are better than anyone else.
Shrapnel82Jul 2, 2011
I guess you don't, because when someone is bullied by the anti-religious side, then it's acceptable. The fact that your comment was buried pretty much shows that only one type of bullying is considered bad. Double standards are fun.
garhentJun 30, 2011
Frankly I'd like to see a large organization formed for atheist rights. And then have that organization get pissed off against NBC for apologizing. And then watch the corporations collectively put their heads up their asses as they try to figure out which special interest group to appease.
Of course, corps could just start to use common sense and ignore special interests, but that is not the American way.
abstractj3Jun 30, 2011
http://www.secular.org/
norman619Jun 30, 2011
No such thing as "atheist rights." Atheists have no special rights. We all have the same damn rights.
theonewhoknowsJun 30, 2011
"We all have the same damn rights."
I think that would be their point.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2011
soooooo
what rights are atheists being denied???
ganjadude4391Jun 30, 2011
the right to not hear "god" in anything ever
stuffradioJun 30, 2011
That's not a right, that's delusional.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2011
HAHAHAHA
is that the best you have?
that's not a right.
under your logic religous people have the right never to hear they don't have the right to use the word god in anything, ever....
vbdonJul 1, 2011
According to the Constitution, religious people do have the right to not hear they don't have the right to use the word God in anything. You may not like the fact that religious freedom is guaranteed but that is too bad. Get over it.
PyriteGenieJul 1, 2011
I missed where "The right to not hear 'God' in anything" was put into the Constitution. That's like expecting to have "The right to not see gay men kissing in the park." The only way to have a control over your passive senses like that is to exert it over everyone elses active senses. Good luck with that.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
starmanjonesJul 1, 2011
@PyriteGenie
>I missed where "The right to not hear
>'God' in anything" was put into the
>Constitution. That's like expecting to
>have "The right to not see gay men
>kissing in the park." The only way to
>have a control over your passive senses
>like that is to exert it over everyone
>elses active senses.
the issue is that christians claim that their religion and its tenets are expressed in the constitution and they therefore have rights to practice their religion at my expense. its not everyone else wanting more its this god given right under the constitution of the u.s. they claim that is at issue.
if it is inappropriate for anyone to kiss in some place then thats the deal. it can't be different for different people. on the other hand people do inappropriate things all the time that aren't against the law. its known as a free society.
ganjadude4391Jul 3, 2011
i know its crazy, I dont want that but it seems the extreme atheists do
ikorkyiJun 30, 2011
the right to be able to pledge allegiance to the United States without believing in God (the pledge).
the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness (homosexuals, women)
Closed AccountJun 30, 2011
i'm totally confused, can you clarify?
are you saying homosexuals and women are all atheist???
under your totaly stupid "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness" arguement, religous people have the right to say god in the pledge if that makes them happy, it also goes along with free speech.
guess what, YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY THE PLEDGE, you can also leave GOD out if you want.
i remember in grade school we had an indian kid that didn't say god during the pledge and it was perfectly fine.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
ikorkyiJun 30, 2011
"are you saying homosexuals and women are all atheist???"
no, but mainstream religions actively try to take away their right in governing their own bodies and being treated equally with no other reason than what is written in anonymously authored books.
"under your totaly stupid "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness" arguement, religous people have the right to say god in the pledge if that makes them happy, it also goes along with free speech."
they do have the right to say it, unfortunately, you do not have the right to not say it. it should not be required to say it or not say it...but it is. if you don't "say it" you're not saying the official version of the pledge of allegiance. it is logical to not include it if you do not require it and give people the option of saying it, not the other way around.
"guess what, YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY THE PLEDGE, you can also leave GOD out if you want. i remember in grade school we had an indian kid that didn't say god during the pledge and it was perfectly fine."
as it is written, God is in the pledge. you can get around that by not saying it, but it doesn't change the fact that to take an oath with the official pledge of allegiance to the United States, you must believe God exists - as it currently is written.
your tone is pathetic.
PyriteGenieJul 1, 2011
You mean those rights endowed them by their Creator? (Or have Obama's continual edits and abridgments finally taken hold as fact?)
norman619Jun 30, 2011
Then they aren't making their point. Why would they need to gather in groups to fight for rights we all already have? Please explain.
rgb86Jul 1, 2011
Just because the rights are written on paper doesn't mean that they're enjoyed in real life. Case in point: as far back as the Declaration of Independence, it's been stated that "all men are created equal," but they certainly weren't treated as equals, not even two centuries later.
Or for a more modern-day equivalent, the Constitution states that there should be no religious test of office, but it simply doesn't work that way in practice--it's virtually impossible for anyone to attain public office without publicly professing their Christian beliefs. It does happen occasionally, but it is statistically insignificant.
vbdonJul 1, 2011
You confuse individual choice and law. There is no law establishing a religious test for holding office. That doesn't mean people can't vote for whomever they choose and for whatever reason they choose. There have been many non-Christians who hold and have held public office. Also, there is no requirement for anyone to declare their religious beliefs when running for office.
rgb86Jul 1, 2011
There is no legal requirement, no, but the people have forced a requirement upon all candidates to declare themselves Christian, regardless of whatever else the candidate may stand for.
garhentJun 30, 2011
Yup, blacks have the same rights as everyone else. Martin Luther King and Malcom X were trouble makers. Gays have the same rights as everyone else, its not as if they are being dragged to their deaths being tied to the back of trucks.
America has perfect equality and everyone gets a fair shake. /BIGGEST SARCASM TAG EVER POSSIBLE IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.
vbdonJul 1, 2011
You are confusing individual behavior with legal establishment. That is a major fail in any argument.
starmanjonesJun 30, 2011
>No such thing as "atheist rights."
>Atheists have no special rights. We all
>have the same damn rights.
properly put... i think equal rights. its religions that believe they hold special laws built into the text and spirit of the constitution that are the problem.
texasjim1093Jun 30, 2011
The Pledge of Allegiance is just plain creepy. If the North Koreans were giving a pledge to their flag and Dear Leader, it would look like brainwashing. I don't care about allegiance to a damn flag, the well being of my fellow man and the good of all mankind is what matters to me.
norman619Jun 30, 2011
How is the pledge creepy? You clearly have no clue with the pledge means. You aren't pledging allegiance to a flag. The flag is a symbol that is all. you are pledging allegiance to the country you live in.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
texasjim1093Jun 30, 2011
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
This is first edition as written in 1892 by a socialist minister who would be considered an enemy by much of those on the right.
Yes, you are pledging to an actual flag and the Republic. This is before God was added to the pledge 62 years later.
To me there is big difference between a ritual loyalty oath and a national anthem. The anthem feels uplifting and celebratory, the loyalty oath seems coercive.
As far as I can tell, we are the only country in the civilized world to have a pledge of allegiance, with the except of the Philippines who imitated the US pledge. There are loyalty oaths for new immigrants but no ritualized oaths for citizens.
If you like the pledge, you would love North Korea with its abundant opportunities to worship the state and swear allegiance. Of course you could always refuse to say the words but the unpatriotic don't live very long where loyalty oaths are the norm.
uncoverorJun 30, 2011
A better question than whether "under God" should be included is why does an alleged free society have a loyalty oath in the first place. Loyalty oaths are something despots require of their subjects. That is why it is creepy. The pledge was a post Civil War loyalty oath to identify unrepentant confederates who would not swear loyalty to "one nation, indivisible" rather than a voluntary union of sovereign states which may secede. I am dismayed that it lasted long enough to become a cold war loyalty oath that we are not godless commies like dem russkies, but pray to Jesus. The whole idea of the pledge stinks no matter which version is used.
starmanjonesJun 30, 2011
the whole idea that americans need to pledge allegiance is creepy.
ikorkyiJun 30, 2011
communion is creepy
a ritual in which you are symbolically eating the blood and body of your Gods' son who is his own father.
i can remember people just fine without make believing i am eating them. where did Jesus even come up with this idea?
rgb86Jul 1, 2011
The Bible has a bit of a zombie fetish. On multiple occasions, they have people rising from the dead, and here we have humans eating human flesh (which is even creepier when you take into consideration the Catholic belief of transubstantiation, where they continue to believe that the bread and wine *literally* transform into the body and blood of Christ).
geogeerJul 4, 2011
Maybe, it is that the language of the bible is one of marriage, and that God loves each of us so intimately that he joins his flesh with ours so that we may be as one.
And one is not symbolically eating the flesh, one is eating the true body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ.
rgb86Jul 4, 2011
No, it might only be symbolic. It all depends if your denomination believes in transubstantiation or consubstantiation. Catholics believe in the trans- version, which means literally eating the body and blood of Christ. Most Protestant denominations believe in the con- version, where the body and blood of Christ exist alongside the bread and wine, which remain bread and wine and therefore are merely symbolic of the act.
geogeerJul 4, 2011
Considering that the early church considered it to be truly the body and blood of Jesus. Only the protestants who didn't come into being for 1500 years after believe otherwise shows protestants to be in error.
rgb86Jul 4, 2011
That doesn't change the fact that a significant portion of Christians don't believe that the bread and wine are literally the body and blood of Christ.
Personally, I don't believe in either, so I don't have any stake in this argument. I'm just pointing out that to many people, it's symbolic and not literal.
geogeerJul 4, 2011
That a significant portion is in error, does not validate their viewpoint. If those who knew Jesus understood it to be one way, people 1500 years in the future are foolish to believe otherwise. There are many biblical and non-biblical sources to show why the protestants are incorrect.
rgb86Jul 4, 2011
I could say the same for all people who believe in a magical sky man, but even if they're all wrong, that doesn't change what they believe, nor how they act.
geogeerJul 4, 2011
Nothing illogical nor "magical" about the concept of God.
rgb86Jul 4, 2011
You've got to be kidding, right? God, being a supernatural being, inherently defies logical explanation. Even if you believe in him, you should acknowledge this.
Actions that defy logic and natural explanation are the very essence of "magic." You may not care for the precise term, so call it what you wish--divine intervention, supernatural causes, etc.--but it's still essentially "magic."
geogeerJul 4, 2011
Given what we know of the nature of the universe, we know that it is finite and had it beginnings roughly 13-14 billion years ago. Before this science tells us space, time and matter did not exist. Thus there must have been something outside of the universe that created the universe. By definition, whatever created the universe must be greater than that which was created, because you cannot give what you do not have. Thus you need a first cause or an unmoved mover.
That this unmoved mover is "God" is a perfectly valid and almost necessary conclusion. To say one who created the universe in all its complexity is unable to intervene in it is a bit of a nonsensical argument. Thus there is nothing magical about the creator taking a hand in his creation. However since the existence of this being is beyond the universe he cannot be limited by what we understand to be universal constants.
rgb86Jul 4, 2011
You fall into the same logical trap either way, though: before the (current) universe, there either had to be somethign that either spontaneously brought itself into being or somehow always existed. You claim that the universe had to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is God. To this, I would pose the question: where did God come from? And, if it is possible that God always existed without a definition creation, why then cannot the universe have existed (or at least the energy that later converted to matter) indefinitely without a definite creator?
In this light, God is not an answer to anything, he is only another question. More than that, he takes a process that's at least theoretically explicable by natural, scientific means and inserts a step that is by its very nature inexplicable by natural, scientific means, and yet brings you no closer to the actual answer of where everything came from. God is just an unnecessary complication in that already complicated question of "Where did the universe come from?"
geogeerJul 4, 2011
Actually you don't fall into that trap because time does not exist outside of the universe. It is a very difficult concept for those of us bounded by time to understand. It is a completely different form of existence. As such there is no before or after, there just is.
Entropy is a major problem to an eternal universe. Additionally we do not ever see anything in the universe ever come from nothing... except apparently the universe itself.
Additionally, that is why science will forever be unable to make any definitive statement on God. One who exists outside of what can be tested cannot be defined by such a mechanism.
cupofkonaJun 30, 2011
Hell Yes...do counter!
rblancarteJun 30, 2011
Yes. In a time when we have kids committing suicide over school yard and cyber bullying, why should we let actions like these slide at all? Just because these are adults doesn't make the issue any less dangerous.
vbdonJun 30, 2011
This page is just filled with anti-religious whiners who insist on cyber bullying anyone who disagrees with them. If you support NBC lying about their "accident" just say so. But whining about others who don't want NBC to get away with their lies and hypocrisy doesn't cut it.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
rblancarteJun 30, 2011
I asked you elsewhere, and I will ask you again: What lies are you talking about?
They admitted they aired an edited version of the Pledge and (unnecessarily) apologized. I don't see any lies in there.
rblancarteJun 30, 2011
Hey dude. It has been over 7 hours since I asked you about this, still waiting on those lies. Let us know!
charlesdkraussJun 30, 2011
"Is it time to counter religious bullying?"
-It's been a LONG time coming. We should have beaten religion down to myth and obscurity by now, where it belongs.
vbdonJun 30, 2011
The only thing that needs beating down are the anti-religious fanatics who keep attacking the majority of Americans. If they don't want to believe, no one is forcing them to. It is the Anti-Religious that are forcing their lack of standards on everyone else.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
charlesdkraussJun 30, 2011
The religious right is forcing their fictitious fanatical beliefs on the rest of americans. There are non-religious americans, too, as the article mentions. Why should "under god" be in the pledge of allegiance? It wasn't there until the 50s. It really would make more sense to leave it out.
Let's not forget the other problems; you can't get elected to political office if you say you don't believe in god, gays can't marry because religious people say it will ruin the sanctity of marriage; religious people want creationism taught in public schools, when there is no scientific basis for it whatsoever.
There's nothing wrong with anti-theists speaking out freely against religion, it's called freedom of speech, jack ass.
vbdonJul 1, 2011
Freedom of speech is not freedom to censor, which is what the anti-religious left seeks to do. If your lack of belief keeps you from being electable to an office representing those who do believe, it is your problem not theirs. Get over it and quit bothering people about it. Your personal vendetta against and persecution of the religious is both obscene and obnoxious.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
charlesdkraussJul 1, 2011
Where the hell did I say we should censor religion or the like? I will stand next to you, to fight for your right to be able to be religious. What I cannot stand is religious people pushing political legislation, to try to force everyone else to believe as they believe, and do as they do.
People should be allowed to do WHATEVER the hell they want, so long as they are not hurting anyone else.
Removing "under god" from the pledge of allegiance is not censorship. It's a more neutral version, as 15-20% of the population is non-believers. How would you like being forced to say, "under allah", instead?
I don't have a personal vendetta towards religious "people", get it right. I have a vendetta against religion itself.
treehugger87Jun 30, 2011
I don't feel myself being forced to believe, but my public school education included a daily recitation of a belief that God is somehow looking over my country.
I'm sure that if you, as a Christian, were forced to state "God is myth" every day at your public school you would similarly feel "bullied."
TheMightyZordonJul 1, 2011
Excellent point.
Most of the oppressiveness is subtle, and probably wouldn't be noticed by Christians (since they agree with it).
vbdonJul 1, 2011
No and I wouldn't feel the need to carry out a vendetta throughout my adult life the way you do.
treehugger87Jul 1, 2011
Religion can be a vendetta. When you run around hating others because they don't believe like you do, you are carrying a vendetta. Pity other people because they don't know God's love if you want to, but don't persecute and don't hate.
bluenose2Jun 30, 2011
The religious nut jobs are @ it again.Karl was right, Religion is the opiate of the Masses.and not just the catholic mass!
ghengiskhan1Jun 30, 2011
Do you know what else is the opiate of the masses? TV, booze, drugs (legal and illegal), professional sports and, yes, religion. What opiate do you use? I use booze. Booze is something I can really believe in. Save me booze, save me!Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
bluenose2Jun 30, 2011
Hallelujah!! Brother! I prefer cannabis and beer.Typical Canuck.
TheMightyZordonJul 1, 2011
Booze and caffeine :)
I dislike most TV, don't want/pay attention to professional sports, don't do drugs, and am an Atheist :)
Everyone's gotta have their little vices.
taiyoryuJul 2, 2011
Restore the pledge!
cboswelJun 30, 2011
Bullying and persecution of others is a condition of humanity and not of any one belief or belief system. Throughout history you can find plenty of examples of any belief or belief system being used to persecute others including Atheism and science. And of course, everyone seems arrogant enough to believe the others are guilty of bullying while they are innocent.
So it is something we bring from our human condition and put into our beliefs without realizing it is something that is meant to be overcome no matter what.
hippielandJul 2, 2011
The Right wing Christians have had the bully pulpit in this country for to long. Its time for them to sit down and shut up.
hippielandJul 2, 2011
The Right wing Christians have had the bully pulpit in this country for to long. Its time for them to sit down and shut up.
starmanjonesJun 30, 2011
Yes.
banderwockyJun 30, 2011
It would be nice to see an organization to stand up to the bullying of the Religious Right and fight back.
costaricJun 30, 2011
Whatever you do, remember you can always go your own way!
TheMightyZordonJul 1, 2011
You can call it another lonely day.
Good song :)
Shrapnel82Jul 2, 2011
If we ended religious bullying, then what would Christopher Hitchens and his followers do? I mean, they could be respectful to people who don't agree with what they believe, but that's just crazy talk.
jimimagetlJan 3, 2012
Where is God? What is His Plan? We all want hope. God of Hope offers exactly that - as it attempts to answer the questions of where God is and what His plan is ... http://on.fb.me/u8q7CK
ghengiskhan1Jun 30, 2011
Is cutting off the head of someone if they dont convert to your religion considered bullying?
treehugger87Jun 30, 2011
Sure. The same way that I would say that a "Christian" organization who hangs people because of their skin color is bullying.
ghengiskhan1Jun 30, 2011
I have not heard of any christian organizations that advocate, plan and acutally hang people for the color of their skin. Thats just aweful! Could you please provide me with a specific, recent example of this happening?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
treehugger87Jul 1, 2011
Oh, that's right, if it didn't happen before Obama was elected it doesn't count, right?
divisionalJul 1, 2011
Christians, more than any other followers of other faiths, are the most ignorant of the sickness and pain that has been dealt in their religions name - not to mention the filth in the Bible itself - from "how to properly beat your slaves" to Lot handing over his daughters to be systematically raped by his guests, to... take your pick... mass baby murder? Name the sickness, the Bible has it in spades.
treehugger87Jul 1, 2011
To be fair, most modern day "Christians" do not respect the teachings of Christ. If they did, we would not suffer so much from their intolerance and hate.
costaricJun 30, 2011
Whatever you do, remember you can always go your own way.
inukkiJun 30, 2011
"You can be just like me: you can be whoever you choose to be"
Closed AccountJul 4, 2011
Im a christian who thinks the pledge of allegiance actually has very anti-christ roots to it. Socialist pledge to a government?????no thanks..........I do not accept anti-christ pledges.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
fleischnerJun 30, 2011
The only bullying that even goes on are the anti-religious. I'm so sick of hearing about how religion is taking over the US. What's really going on is quite the opposite:
Texas Vets Told Not to Use 'God' During Services
[T]he cemetery director won't allow the use of "God" or "Jesus" unless the family submits the prayer in writing for her approval.
"In addition, director Arleen Ocasio has stated the National Memorial Ladies cannot tell families 'God Bless,' they cannot communicate in writing or orally[.]"
http://goo.gl/B1fjBComment is buried, click here to see the rest.
treehugger87Jul 1, 2011
Imagine the grief that you would feel if your own son died in combat. He was far away, and you had not seen him in a long, long time. You visit with his body in private. You grieve. You pray in the way that is appropriate to your beliefs. You ask yourself, why, why did this have to happen?
Finally, you come to terms. He chose this based on his own beliefs. You loved him, he loved his country. He died fighting for a cause he believed in. You are proud of your son, but you miss him terribly.
On the day of the funeral, a man you don't know says to you "Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar" (Allah is great). The traditional beginning of the Muslim prayer for the dead. Someone else you don't know insists that the ceremony begin with 'Sub-haa-na-kal laa-hum-ma wa bi-ham-di-ka wa ta-ba-ra-kas mu-ka wa ta-`aa-la jad-du ka wa laa i-laa-ha ghay-ruk.' (Glory to Thee, O Allah, and Thine is the praise, and blessed is Thy name, and exalted is Thy majesty, and there is none to be served besides Thee.)"
You get the picture. Good for Arleen Ocasio. She is a great American. She recognizes that not every American wishes to receive a blessing from God on the day they grieve their dead child.
bcronosJun 30, 2011
Wow, the right adopting the left's tactics and the left getting pissed about it!
Priceless...
alanocuJun 30, 2011
I was thinking the same thing.when I read....."...demand an explanation" by bombarding NBC with phone calls and emails...."
I don't like the sound of that.
That kind of tactic sounds like the mob mentality of liberalism.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
delphium226Jun 30, 2011
Yes, this is the first time the right has ever done this!
/s
seroevoJun 30, 2011
As opposed to when the left adopts the right's tactics and the right getting pissed about it?
Both sides are full of idiots.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2011
I'm just waiting for basically anyone expressing their opinion to be always classified as "bullying."
salbatrossJun 30, 2011
Expressing your opinion is fine. Demanding the rest of us go along with it is bullying.
neotechniJun 30, 2011
LFDog has done that on many occasions to me.
fleischnerJun 30, 2011
Jeez, this one hit a nerve. The digg-downs (i.e. the Left's response -- always) are at astronomical levels. -28 for one comment at this moment? You'd think it was, say, some sort of atheist Jihad...Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
rblancarteJun 30, 2011
I assume that you are talking about swimmytimmy. He made a statement that was patently false, that is why he was dugg down, not because of his political/left-lean.
The AFA is a conservative-religious group and they did take a very public stance on this that would be akin to bullying. For him to claim it wasn't people of this group is wrong.
vbdonJun 30, 2011
Simply calling NBC on their lies is not bullying. If NBC was more honest, people wouldn't need to expose their lies and hypocrisy.
rblancarteJun 30, 2011
"calling NBC on their lies"? Exactly what lies are those?
They admitted they aired an edited version of the Pledge and (unnecessarily) apologized. What are you talking about?
vbdonJul 1, 2011
Perhaps you didn't bother to read. They said it was an accident when it was obviously intentional. That is a lie by any definition. Of course, the anti-religious left never admits to lying because in they're twisted thinking lying is some kind of virtue.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
divisionalJul 1, 2011
Just curious - What makes you think being a non-believer in the supernatural makes someone "left?"
rblancarteJul 1, 2011
See, but there is your logical mistake.
You have made your mind up that they did this on purpose. Thus, you won't accept them saying anything other than they did this on purpose and thus will call any answer that isn't that a lie.
BTW - It is called a logical fallacy.
vbdonJul 1, 2011
For rblancarte: Pointing out the obviousness of a lie is not a logical fallacy. Denying the obvious is.
rblancarteJul 1, 2011
No, your fallacy is assuming something to be true that you don't know for a fact. You assume they did this on purpose with zero proof. You just state that "it is an obvious lie", and it isn't even close.
Having watched the clip, it was a pre-recorded pledge of allegiance, filmed from various different angles. Given the way it was cut, it is easy to see how a portion could be left out.
Second, this could have been done by a lone editor with zero input from NBC at all. NBC execs might have been just a surprised that UNDER GOD was missing as anyone that took offense to it.
The point being is this - you have zero proof that this was intention actions by NBC. You are just taking your point of view and assuming it to be fact. IE - logical fallacy.
superkendallJun 30, 2011
The people I mainly see doing bullying are leftists against anything and everything conservative, or libertarian.
delphium226Jun 30, 2011
It's called giving as good as you get and it's about time.
rblancarteJun 30, 2011
Don't you hate it that reality has a left-lean to it?
vbdonJun 30, 2011
Now they seem to be admitting that it wasn't an accident and are justifying their corruption of the pledge of allegiance. Why doesn't NBC just admit they hate America and Americans? It would save a lot of time and trouble.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
TheMightyZordonJul 1, 2011
Oh, so omitting 'Under God' from the Pledge of Allegiance is anti-American? Despite the fact that it's a statement that basically only applies to Christians? Whatever happened to keeping religion and religious themes the f**k out of government and anything it does? If you want to say the Pledge of Allegiance with 'Under God' in it, go right ahead. The non-theists/non-Christians will continue to express our freedom of speech and religion and NOT say it, and will demand that favoritism towards Christianity in the public media be ended.
vbdonJul 1, 2011
You have the right to say any stupid thing you want to say. But networks operating on PUBLIC airwaves DO NOT have the right to censor others. And you are wrong again. Under God does not apply only to Christians. It also applies to Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and any other religious individuals. Just because you lack the intellect to be religious, doesn't give you or anyone at NBC the right to censor those who are.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
TheMightyZordonJul 1, 2011
Now you're claiming that omitting 'Under God' from the Pledge is censorship against theists? Seriously, where do you get this stuff?
Also, don't give me that tired old crap about 'God' also applying to other religions. At best, it might apply to Muslims and Jews and other MONOtheistic religions (Hindus are polytheistic). But more than just that, you have to look at the spirit of the change. The words were put in place during the beginning of the Cold War, and we wanted to show that America was not 'Godless' like Russia, and was better than Russia in part because of the belief in God (and anyone who's honest KNOWS what 'God' they were referring to).
In the end, keeping the words in the Pledge is a tacit recognition that Christianity has infiltrated into all levels of this society, including into government. . .when that is not necessarily supposed to be the case.
"Just because you lack the intellect to be religious, doesn't give you or anyone at NBC the right to censor those who are."
I f**king lol'd at 'lacking the intellect to be religious'.
vbdonJul 1, 2011
Because you even lack the intellect to know the definition of the word "censor", my point is more than proven. If you think Russia was better than the U.S. because it rejected Christianity as well as all other religions, you might want to check the history books to see which society won the Cold War.
TheMightyZordonJul 1, 2011
Now where the hell did I say Russia was 'better'? I said the US adopted the words Under God within the Pledge as an attempt to show that the US, being a 'Godly' country, was better by default. I think this was stupid, but that doesn't automatically make the Soviet Union 'better'. Both sides had their strengths and weaknesses.
Oh, and do you REALLY think the US won the Cold War because it was 'godly' or 'religious'? Or am I misinterpreting that?
Lastly, here's a definition of censor: to ban or cut portions of (a publication, film, letter, etc.)
2. to act as a censor of (behaviour, etc.)
NBC didn't ban the Pledge from being said with the words Under God, and they 'cut' it because they have every right to. If anything, the Christian response was more 'censoring' than what NBC did, whining about how the words were removed, censoring NBC from basically doing what it chose to do, and forcing them to 'apologize', as if they did something 'wrong'.
aristotle0dudeJun 30, 2011
What about anti-religious bullying? There seems to be far more of the latter. You also have fake trolls like x140p.
hoghugJun 30, 2011
Finding it hard being in the vast, religious majority are you? Are all the openly atheist politicians getting to you? Your kids getting ostracized at school for not belonging to an atheist organization? Were you indoctrinated to pledge allegiance to an atheist country as a kid? Does it feel weird having atheist meeting halls sprinkled all over your town? If you're an alcoholic, did they tell you you had to accept belief in no higher power in AA to get over your problems? Do you hate it when atheists knock on your door, selling their atheism?
Please, do tell. I had no idea it was so hard being religious.
blydchyldJun 30, 2011
wow - thats awesome, original quote?
(Also now on my FB page)
hoghugJun 30, 2011
Well, thanks, blydchyld. And yes, that's an original rant.
I might also add...that it must be weird having atheistic devotions on all your money, atheistic national holidays, presidential days of atheism and opening atheistic statements before governmental meetings. Not to mention those huge atheistic displays every December on government property. And how many times do we have to hear from atheists wanting godless credos carved into the sides of government buildings?
And how irritating it must be knowing that you're paying to have multiple channels of Atheist-specific broadcasting on your cable TV. And what's up with atheistic meetings broadcast Sunday mornings on public tv stations? And we all hate those long car trips when the only radio stations you can pick up are those crazy atheist ones preaching the good word of godlessness.
And how hard it must be, hiding your belief in God from your family and coworkers for fear that if they found out they'd automatically assume you were an immoral deviant. And all those cases of child molesting atheists being shuffled around from atheistic parish to atheistic parish must really get your goat, too. Not to mention all those atheists that get on TV soon after every national disaster claiming that people were killed by the thousands due to others' belief in God.
Hell, as silly as it is, perfect strangers wish you atheistic health every time you sneeze.
Or wait- maybe it's just the handful of anonymous atheists on message boards you visit saying mean things about God that makes you feel bullied? Wow. I bet THAT'S super hard, too.
blydchyldJun 30, 2011
Now its a Note.
But really i do like that and it really does show how badly our pro religion friends have it.
TheMightyZordonJul 1, 2011
Wow. . .you pointed out the pure idiocy of their claims that atheists are 'bullying' Christians much better than I would've :D
This society is permeated with Christian imagery and themes, and they have the BALLS to whine about atheists 'bullying'?
divisionalJul 1, 2011
Hoghug. You are my f**king hero. I loved your posts. Thanks for saying what I'm feeling better than I ever could!
tristanstarrJun 30, 2011
This gets me everytime... I am a black, lesbian, athiest.... And the majority in these catagories (whites, hetero, and religious) are always screaming "well what about me."
salbatrossJun 30, 2011
How dare you take our jobs/political offices/marriages away from us!
/s
darkphenoxJun 30, 2011
Getting beat up twice in my youth for being an Atheist and not once seeing anyone being beaten up for being any other religion I respectfully disagree
aristotle0dudeJun 30, 2011
Are you sure it was for being an atheist or being an ass? I would guess it was the latter. As much as atheists talk about not liking religion shoved down their throat, all people generally do not take kindly to being insulted or looked down upon.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2011
You mean the way you just insulted and looked down at darkphenox for his non-inflammatory comment?
darkphenoxJun 30, 2011
The first time was in public school in grade 7 after I brought up it is illegal to have a morning prayer in a public school, which my school did. I didn't do it loudly I brought my concerns to the teacher but it was a small class room and someone must have heard my complaint. After school I was confronted on the way home they asked my why I didn't want to prey in school and why I talked to the teacher and I said because it is illegal and I don't believe in god, they started yelling at me and the biggest one started beating the s**t out of me, the 2 others joined in after. I have a scar on my forehead from that beating.
My second beating was by a bunch of religious zealots in my high school, they jumped me in the park one weekend and started calling me a "gentlemen-atheist", that was a duel beating for being a bisexual atheist, they cracked my radius bone with a kick when I was on the ground. After I told my parents what happened and they went to talk to the bullies parents they defended each other and one of their parents said that they were at home hanging out when this happened. I contemplated going to the police but I figured the beating I would get would be a lot worse if not fatal if I did so I left it. I always mined my own business and never really talked to them, or said bad things about religion before that, I started resenting religion after that encounter for awhile, I got over it eventually but the anger was there for a few years. There were 2 Muslims in my grade, they were cousins, they were actually in an after school group with the people who beat me up in high school, one who I thought I was a friend with told me I deserved what happened to me in an email the Monday after this happened. This was before cyber bullying was a hot-button issue, and the other never looked at me again. They started hanging out with each other and they all became best friends after that. A year and a half after that I graduated and never looked back at those bigots. I don't know what I did to make you think I am an assh**e,but I'm sorry to give you the wrong impression about me.
norman619Jun 30, 2011
"The first time was in public school in grade 7 after I brought up it is illegal to have a morning prayer in a public school"
Well you were actually wrong in this assertion but be that as it may... kids will pick anything to pick on a kid they see as different and an easy target. Based on what you have said I met quite a few kids like you growing up. they tended to be the target of bullies and it wasn't because of their religious views or lack of them.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
tmazzJun 30, 2011
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engel_v._Vitale
Actually he wasn't. Any Mandatory, required, or simply disruptive prayer in public school has been deemed unconstitutional for almost 50 years now.
That is not an opinion, just a flat out fact.
darkphenoxJun 30, 2011
My town had less the 4000 people in it, I just mentioned the beatings not the many times I was verbally bullied. I have family members who don't talk to me because of my religious beliefs, they stopped talking to me and my parents before I found out I was bisexual. Some people really disliked the fact I was a non-believer there, others were wonderfully peaceful about it. Also where you there? Do you know the motivations of people that you don't even know?
devnullJun 30, 2011
Dude, you like asking questions of people then answering for them?
You walk the fine line of troll-dom...
norman619Jun 30, 2011
You sure you were beaten up because you were an atheist? You sure it wasn't because of something else?
ooglerJun 30, 2011
Norman - Replacing the word 'beaten' with 'raped' and 'were an atheist' for 'showing too much cleavage' ... I see a glaring blame-the-victim slant to your comment. (Well, I see it regardless of word swapping but that's not the point.)
Is this what you intended? If so, I'd ask you to elaborate on what you feel is a proper reason for getting 'beaten up' and while you're at it the approach you used to reach out to those who you witnessed being systemically abused in your own childhood experience?
norman619Jun 30, 2011
"Replacing the word 'beaten' with 'raped' and 'were an atheist' for 'showing too much cleavage' ... "
What complete bulls**t. Equating this to rape is idiotic at best. The person I replied to was implying kids beat him over his Atheist views which I highly doubt. I contend he was targeted because the bullies simply saw him as a weak child and a victim. No one likes to see themselves as such but that is usually was draws a bully to you.
"I'd ask you to elaborate on what you feel is a proper reason for getting 'beaten up' and while you're at it the approach you used to reach out to those who you witnessed being systemically abused in your own childhood experience?"
I handled my own bullies by beating them so badly they feared me and never bothered me again. See, I was a quiet kid. I was also very shy. A combination that tends to label you as a victim when little. I looked out for myself and my friends who weren't able to fight back like I could. I feel violence is justified when defending yourself or another. I never raise a hand to anyone that hasn't resorted to using violence against me first. I was never above letting a friend get their butt kicked when I felt they asked for it either.
Only the weak minded talk with their hands. That's what my father taught us and I saw the truth in that as I grew up. People need to learn to stand up for themselves. People who believe there is never a good reason to resort to violence haven't lived in the real world.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
rgb86Jul 1, 2011
He's not comparing the situation to rape, he's comparing your comment to the "blame the victim" mentality, which just so happens frequently to be associated with rape cases.
vbdonJul 1, 2011
6 million Jews in Europe murdered for being Jewish. Atheists complaining in U.S. courts about seeing churches in public view. A girl being shot dead in Columbine school because she said she was a Christian. Non-Muslims being killed in the Middle East for not being Muslims. Face it, Atheists in the U.S. have a virtual free ride.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
TheMightyZordonJul 1, 2011
If you think that the Nazis were atheist, you're even more inept than I thought.
Care to cite any examples of 'atheists complaining in US courts about seeing churches in plain view'? About the most that happens is when some **** puts up a creche or some other religious depiction on GOVERNMENT PROPERTY, and demands that it be removed, on the basis of well-established legal precedence. I have yet to hear anyone complaining in court about 'churches being in public view'. Of course, you're welcome to back up your claim. . .if you can.
"A girl being shot dead in Columbine school because she said she was a Christian"
That claim is considered dubious at best, and is still under discussion. Try again.
"Non-Muslims being killed in the Middle East for not being Muslims"
How does this fit with the rest of your bulls**t-filled post? Those deaths are at the hands of Muslims killing non-Muslims, whereas the rest of your post was about atheists and their 'crimes'. At least try to be consistent. . .eesh.
smotpokerJun 30, 2011
In Southern GA in the 90's one could easily get beaten (or at least ridiculed/picked on) as a devil worshiper for listening to any form of heavy metal or playing RPGs (the real ones, not the video game crap you whippersnappers play these days...).
Naturally many atheists have a bit of vehemence against "christians" due to being bombarded by them throughout their lives. It's unfortunate that a key aspect of so many christian denominations is evangelism and an inability to perceive reality without trying to force God's will into every nook and cranny when it is plainly obvious that the chances of Him actually intervening in any part of their day-to-day life to lead them anywhere or tell them anything are infinitesimal at best.
Not that I feel ridiculing people based entirely on their personal beliefs is ok... I just think christians ridiculing *everyone* who isn't christian is a bit more common and more of a problem than the minority of antagonistic atheists. I also feel that atheists tend to know more about what they are ridiculing than christians who do the same to atheists and non-christian faiths. Further, christians are more more likely to attempt to indoctrinate and inject their religion by force (especially upon minors). Where I went to my *public* school, we were still forced to say the pledge and regularly endure christian guest speakers who would come to our classes to tell us bible stories and try to get us go to some stupid religious summer camp. It may seem like a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away but it really wasn't, and now that some people are starting to realize such problems and articulate them, christians want to act like they are being harmed if they are restricted from pursuing personal interests at the expense of others or on public time with public $$. Preposterous!
</endrant>
salbatrossJun 30, 2011
Really? Far more? I can really think of very, very little anti-religious bullying. And it's pretty damn tame. None of this "you're not American," disowning, hateful bulls**t like that practiced by "devout" Christians in the States.
TheMightyZordonJul 1, 2011
Indeed. I find it hilarious that Christians would classify the 'aggressive' commentary by atheists online as being 'bullying'. If anything, it's more like shouting to make your voice be heard in the grand realm of public media. Whereas Christian themes and imagery and thinking pretty much permeate this society of ours, sometimes oppressively with force (depends on the area, and the issue in question). Just because it's the majority religion, doesn't give them the right to suffocate all the alternative opinions by their sheer weight of numbers.
divisionalJul 1, 2011
You hit the nail on the head. The Christian desire and even mandate, is to suffocate alternative opinions... especially godless ones. I grew up in that world, and it's a fact. They believe it is part of healing the world.