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leodinJan 15, 2012
I'm not putting that on Fox News. We live in a world with so much spin that wanting clean air and water has become a "liberal agenda." It blows my f**king mind that people are so obsessed with politics and making sure "their team" wins that they've taken something as basic as clean air and water and turned it into a political attack. Now look, I realize there can be much debate on as to how best ensure that we have those necessities, in terms of legislation and whatnot, but there's just something wrong with this country when to even bring it up brands you as a liberal wacko.
I just don't even understand it. I mean, I'm generally fairly solidly small government, but even I don't see environmentalism as a liberal political position, or even a political position at all. Whatever side of the fence you're on, surely everyone can agree that one of the most basic functions of the government is to prevent others from infringing upon our rights and causing us harm. If someone walks up to you on the street and punches you, no one's going to say that it's a partisan agenda to say that said person should go to jail. Likewise, I don't see how you can say it's a partisan agenda to stop a company from pouring poison into the air people breathe or the water they drink.
concusionJan 15, 2012
perfectly said.
ChuppacabraJan 15, 2012
If thats all the argument was about then we'd all agree with you. But we both know thats not the case, and to make it appear so is simply disingenuous.
What constitutes "clean" water? What constitutes "clean" air?
In my part of the Country, when the local haboob (a term we never used in AZ until the movie Hidalgo came out) pumps a few thousand tons of dirt into the atmosphere, is the air still "clean"? How about when the envirowhackos tell me I can't burn a log in my fireplace on Christmas morning for fear that my actions will somehow cause irreperable harm to said "clean air"? Is that reasonable?
How about all the hoopla about the gulf oil spill? The whole thing didn't amount to a hill of beans. And the Exxon Valdez? Now some of the best fishing in the world comes from that area. Why? Because little did we know theres a whole food chain that thrives on eating crude oil, and those tiny organisms are feasted upon by other organisms and so on and so on up the food chain.
Man is nowhere near as smart as he thinks he is. And this planet will be here billions of years after we have vanished. In fact, whatever creatures inhabit the Earth when our sun finally supernovas probably won't even know that there was once this smart monkey who thought he ruled the planet...Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
jmurJan 15, 2012
"What constitutes "clean" water?"
-I'd like it with less mercury in it. That's a start.
particleman420Jan 16, 2012
or rocket fuel, pesticides, runoff from chemical plants, paint, runoff from livestock factories, etc etc etc.
but dont worry, they want to take away the EPA so those totally trustworthy companies can police themselves.
ChuppacabraJan 16, 2012
We've got the cleanest drinking water in the world. The only way you could get it any cleaner would be to mine 2 million year old glacier water, but its just not good enough, is it?
Maybe you should set up your own water distillation plant if thats not good enough for you.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
particleman420Jan 16, 2012
we have the cleanest water due in part to the EPA which was created specifically to police those same corporations that you think can police themselves.
you're arguing against something with the benefits that something brings.
Closed AccountJan 16, 2012
We know, we know...And our poor people don't have any ribs showing, and when we torture, we don't leave marks, blah blah blah...Great. Let's pat ourselves on the back--because pollution levels here aren't *as* toxic as they are in some other countries. Woo-hooo!
bluenose2Jan 16, 2012
And that Glacier is melting away , thanks to global warming.You may have glacial water, your grand children will not !
ChuppacabraJan 18, 2012
@bluenose2
Then I guess they'll have to learn to do without just like their ancestors have had to do several dozens of times in the past as the Earth cycled through cool and warm periods.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
fluxJan 17, 2012
I agree that this is one thing the EPA did well, but it just as easily could have been done on a state level and prob been done more efficiently and then would have been constitutionalComment is buried, click here to see the rest.
ChuppacabraJan 16, 2012
Yeah and I'd like to have less plutonium in mine.
So what?
When you grow up, please feel free to join the discussion.
particleman420Jan 16, 2012
wtf did you even just say.
translate that into "sane" if you can focus for that long.
ChuppacabraJan 16, 2012
Hey, I think your mom just baked you a bunch of nice fresh cookies.
Better run upstairs and grab a few before they get cold.
particleman420Jan 16, 2012
i'm not going to tell you what your mom just got finished doing.
ChuppacabraJan 18, 2012
You don't have to.
That was me in there doing it.
particleman420Jan 18, 2012
with your mom?!?!
that explains a lot actually.
ChuppacabraJan 19, 2012
Yeah I took her to dinner for MLK day.
What does that explain?
particleman420Jan 19, 2012
it explains nothing since you, like me, are in arizona and thanks to the extra high number of racists it's called "Civil Rights Day" because they wouldnt want to honor someone of color.
sbuckley00Jan 16, 2012
what!?!?!?
tjmarshall86Jan 16, 2012
"the gulf oil spill didnt amount to a hill of beans"!?
I dont know where you get your air or water but I would like a little less stupid in mine.
ChuppacabraJan 18, 2012
I'd prefer common sense
http://letusponder.hubpages.com/hub/gulf-oil-to-water-ratio-minuscule
tjmarshall86Jan 18, 2012
How about the 11 people killed?
The 60,000 barrels of oil lost that are now thinking of being replaced by a redirected pipeline through a national park
The 400,000 of oily water and 50,000 barrels of heavy mud that was removed through tax payer money
The 12,000 people that filed unemployment in Louisianna after the spill
The 150 miles of beach shut down crippling both fishing industry and tourism
Your point is asinine at best and retarded at worst. I consider even barrel of oil over any amount of "beans" not even to mention the cost of a life.
P.S. keep your responses timely I got s**t to do
ChuppacabraJan 18, 2012
Absolutely meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
You've got s**t to do?
I'm certain. There's got to be a salamander somewhere thats going to lose his life today because he's living in the backyard of some guy who's going to dig a pool.
But Digg doesn't pay me to educate you, and besides, I can't teach common sense.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
tjmarshall86Jan 18, 2012
See verbal bitch slap below :)
leodinJan 16, 2012
So you don't care what toxins you breathe or drink? It's all a bunch of extremist bulls**t to you? No one can be that f**king stupid. I'm not saying we go all extreme or whatever, but come on, anyone can figure out that there are some things we shouldn't be breathing, that we shouldn't be drinking. What's so radical about pointing that out? Am I some environmental wacko for saying, for instance, that lead will make you sick?
ChuppacabraJan 16, 2012
Is that what I said?
I just don't think I need some f**king quack telling me I can't burn a log in my fireplace on Christmas Day, OK?
We had about a gazillion acres of ponderosa pine go up in forest fire last summer here in AZ, but some d**kh**d environmentalist thinks I'm going to alter the course of nature if I burn a f**king fire log.
What don't you get?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
leodinJan 16, 2012
What do you mean, I don't get it? I get exactly what you're up to, and I don't need you to spell it out to me to get at your true meaning here. I take a moderate position, and you bring up (probably nonexistent) extremist wackos in order to completely discredit the whole notion of environmentalism. You're taking a small segment of the population (so small it's on the verge of being a straw man), and painting everyone who ever even brings up the subject of environmentalism as belonging to that extremist subgroup.
Did you say those exact words? No, but why else would you f**king bring up extremists when I'm taking a moderate position? Why post a hostile response unless you're attempting to discredit the notion that there is such thing as someone who believes in protecting the environment without being an extremist whack job?
I find it extremely telling that, especially when politics are concerned, it's when you try to reach a compromise, when you try to bridge gaps, that people become the most hostile. It's not about making a better world for you, it's all about scoring points for your political team, as if any of that bulls**t even matters.
ChuppacabraJan 16, 2012
So now I'm making it up, huh?
http://www.maricopa.gov/aq/divisions/compliance/dust/fireplaces/Default.aspx
There's nothing moderate about Environazis.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
tjmarshall86Jan 18, 2012
Anger Is the language of ignorance thank you for making my point more valid
slearwigJan 16, 2012
This is going to sound ignorant, but seriously, where does lead come from?
emkaysmithJan 16, 2012
You don't get it, do you? Environmentalism is obviously anti-business, which is to say anti-American.
sbuckley00Jan 16, 2012
Well said.
The issue here is actually that those who attack people who want clean air and water, do not in fact care about the health of people. It is that simple, those people simply do not share the sentiment of keeping all people on this planet healthy and alive.
ChuppacabraJan 16, 2012
We don't attack anyone.
We laugh at silly little people with crazy notions of what constitutes clean air and water.
If you had even the slightest clue how much rodent poop and insect parts are included for free in that organic tofu burger you're eating right now, you'd probably go run into the bathroom and purge yourself.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
drumcyborgJan 17, 2012
Most alive people are not particularly interested in hearing what bloodsuckers have to say.
You are a parasite.
cranelakeJan 15, 2012
Put them on the Comedy Channel where they belong and leave the thinking to the grown ups.
particleman420Jan 15, 2012
they're funny, but not in a "comedy" type of way
stabsteerJan 17, 2012
So true. Every time Fox happens to on in some waiting room or hotel lobby, etc I always laugh and then remember I'm not watching The Onion news channel. Then I politely get up and Change the F'ing channel. They are an F'ing joke.
ChuppacabraJan 18, 2012
Do that in front of me.
tjmarshall86Jan 18, 2012
Like butter on toast you are spread too thin my friend. Pick your battles
P.S. I really wanna try your chili cause you spend way too much money on beans.
:) happy liberal says hola
ChuppacabraJan 19, 2012
<pssst.....wink.....wink>
I'm gonna let you in on a little secret.
None of this really amounts to a "battle".
This is just a bunch of silly kids thinking they understand how the world is.
I just love getting in here, trolling them, and seeing how many times they have to log into their sock puppet accounts to digg down everything I post.
I call it entertainment.
ChuppacabraJan 15, 2012
Thats right! All those 22 year olds with their degrees they earned at their online colleges should be allowed to run this circus!
glassagateJan 16, 2012
How about taking the Fox political shows, and swap
them with the Daily Show, the Colbert Report, the political
commemorators from The Onion, and call it good.
practikelJan 18, 2012
Watch Comedy Central for your news and Fox News for your comedy...sounds about right :)
Closed AccountJan 15, 2012
Once again, up is down and down is up for these people. It never ends:
• the "sanctity of life" party wants the government to force women to carry every pregnancy to term and keep brain-dead people on life support forever but they also think the government is infallible when it comes to capital punishment
* the "sanctity of life" party wants all hands on deck and believes it absolutely must take a village to decide a woman's reproductive rights but when the time comes to feed, clothe, educate and provide healthcare for the children they force women to bear, they're suddenly repulsed by socialism
• the "fiscal responsibility" party is supposedly concerned about ensuring a bright economic future for our children--even if that means leaving their heirs a planet that's crumbling from neglect and choking with pollution.
• the "party of family values* is in love with Rick Santorum (this week)--even though he recently helped cover up John Ensign's sleazy, hypocritical and thoroughly disgusting extramarital affair.
• the *marriage is for straight people only* party thinks straight people do it best. And who would know better than the likes of Trump, Newt, and Giuliani?
• the "family values" party supposedly believes that we must do everything we can to promote marriage (between a man and a woman) and strengthen the family--which apparently includes screwing the middle class and making their lives a living hell (in a desperate attempt to get back into office and destroy the country even more than they did under 8 years of Bush).
• and who the hell even knows what these people think about education anymore? They're so deeply and truly concerned about our public schools, they say but what they're really deeply and truly concerned about is destroying teachers unions. Intelligent, and articulate SC nominees with ivy league degrees are just dreamy. Ivy league educated Presidents, OTOH, are "elitist" --unless he's an incoherent Republican from TX. Then he's a winsome bumbling straight talker just full of down home casual charm. So, to review, they want their Presidents to be scholarly and intelligent but also simple and plain spoken. They don't mind if their President uses flashcards to pronounce world leaders' names but a President who uses a teleprompter--well, that's just totally unacceptable.
• the capitalism is nirvana party doesn't think public sector workers and other working class Americans have the right to ask for job security and decent wages and benefits--but they don't object to the taxpayer footing the bill for their six figure salaries and benefits.
• the capitalism is nirvana party wants homeowners with underwater mortgages to suffer for the risks they took--but they fight to eliminate as much risk and accountability as possible for the industries and corporations who bankroll their campaigns.
• the voter integrity party wants us to believe that they'll stop whining that they are being cheated if we allow the government to card everyone at the ballot box. Oddly, their alleged concerns about voter integrity don't extend to the millions of Americans who will likely be denied their right to vote as a result of right wing's voter suppression campaign. I could go on and on. Right wing assbackwardness positively breathtaking.
aadyssJan 15, 2012
Wow! That many talking point comment must be worth at least $20.00 at PoliticusUSA. If word count were the qualifier for salary, you would no longer be one of the 99%. You would have arrived and would be the 1% who doesn't pay their "fair share".Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
concusionJan 15, 2012
you know what you just wrote, absolutely nothing. Thats what people do when they have no rebuttal. Go sit in a closed garage with the car running if you want to see what CO2 does to the air.
aadyssJan 15, 2012
Ah, yet another PoliticusUSA non-salaried employee commenting. You guys are a hoot! Keep up the good work! Pagan chants in the restroom at noon. The memo is on the bulletin board.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
particleman420Jan 15, 2012
your retorts and counter arguments are so enlightening!
i think i'm going to switch parties to republican after those heartwarming and educational comments. You really add a lot to the discussion! it must be some organized hit squad that buries every one of your comments and not the fact that you are a waste of flesh and bandwidth.
clanksterJan 16, 2012
As an unaffiliated, non-party-affiliated individual, I'd like to offer the objective observation that you are clearly an idiot.
bobcat7407Jan 16, 2012
"As an unaffiliated, non-party-affiliated individual"
So is that like a double negative?
johnnysoftwareJan 15, 2012
I think you are supposed to give a disclaimer at the bottom of that imperative in case he is a science-starved moron.
Which ... we might infer in the gentleman's case.
ChuppacabraJan 15, 2012
Bet I'd survive longer than you would in a tent full of pure Oxygen.
Closed AccountJan 16, 2012
So this is the best you can offer in terms of debate skills? You're not even trying to have a rational exchange.
ChuppacabraJan 16, 2012
And this is your sandard response to every comment.
"You're stoopid" hardly qualifies as a intriguing response - yet it seems to be the upper limit of your debate skill set.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
inajeepJan 17, 2012
@chuppars: I don't know why anyone would waste their time considering your responses.
ChuppacabraJan 18, 2012
@inajeep
Can't tell ya partner - I think you'll have to take that topic up with the mirror.
particleman420Jan 17, 2012
that's the standard response to all of your comments because it's true. you have no clue at all how to discuss anything, you can never back up your claims with anything other than blogs or propaganda sites, you ignore every question asking you to clarify what it was you were trying to (and failing) to say, you cant stay on topic, even if its a topic you brought up, and no matter what it is you'll try to find a way to personally attack whoever it is you're replying to, since you lack the ability to back up your spoonfed propaganda since you probably cant even understand that and only know that since you heard it on fox that it must be true.
ChuppacabraJan 18, 2012
lmao -
And then you turn around and do just exactly what I say you do all over again.
Wow - why doesn't Digg incorporate the ability to completely filter out certain posters?
I mean seriously - I've yet to see you contribute anything anywhere outside the obligatory, "You're Stoopid"Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
particleman420Jan 18, 2012
that's because you only see my comments when i reply to you
ChuppacabraJan 19, 2012
It would be easy if that were true.
Unfortunately, you're quite the virulent commentator.
The only thing that seems to slow you down is when the third of the month rolls around.
Isn't that when the welfare checks hit?
bobcat7407Jan 16, 2012
Why respond to a bunch of ridiculous talking points? If the first poster wanted to actually have a debate, then why list a bunch of junk? List some actual facts, then it will be worth a rebuttal.
Closed AccountJan 16, 2012
I'm not sure what you mean by talking points. Are you? Come on...These aren't *that* difficult. Do you want me to rephrase the questions so that your feelings aren't hurt? Let's take an easy one. Here...I said:
• the "sanctity of life" party wants the government to force women to carry every pregnancy to term and keep brain-dead people on life support forever but they also think the government is infallible when it comes to capital punishment
Essentially, I'm asking how (whether based on faith or science or both) right wingers reconcile arguing that they're all about erring on the side of protecting life in the first two cases while abandoning this notion wrt the third case? If you question science or faith in the first two cases, how can you not similarly question them in the third case? Forget about what you or I believe about any of those issues individually. Just focus on explaining the inconsistencies. How would you do it? Thanks.
bobcat7407Jan 16, 2012
Now why couldn't you have 1) Put all that in your original comment and 2) responded like that before? I don't mind having a discussion like this.
On to the issue...
I do not think it is inconsistent. The reason being that I, and probably most on the right, would not support capital punishment in cases where there is doubt.
So, the difference is a question of innocence. When does a person deserve to have death as a punishment? I would say when they have deprived another person of life (mentally, physically) they deserve to lose their own. But ONLY in cases that are proved beyond a reasonable doubt. Unborn babies or people on life support certainly do not meet that criteria. Personally, I do not know where anyone on the right has tried to FORCE someone to stay on life support when the family supported pulling them off.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountJan 17, 2012
"I do not think it is inconsistent. The reason being that I, and probably most on the right, would not support capital punishment in cases where there is doubt."
--A few observations... First, you slammed me for not providing facts but your very first counterargument is a statement based entirely on your opinion. How do your unsupported opinions trump mine exactly? Also, you missed my point about capital punishment. My argument is that if you are all about erring on the side of life in the first two cases, you wouldn't support capital punishment at all. Whether there is doubt or not, human error could result in innocent people being executed. To be consistent with the first two, you wouldn't support capital punishment, period.
"So, the difference is a question of innocence. When does a person deserve to have death as a punishment? I would say when they have deprived another person of life (mentally, physically) they deserve to lose their own."
--Ok. No. You're not getting my point at all. My point is that if you insist that every conception must result in pregnancy and that brain-dead people must not have life-support removed (as many on the right believe), then you shouldn't support capital punishment--because, regardless of what the government proves, there is always the chance that someone could be innocently executed.
"Personally, I do not know where anyone on the right has tried to FORCE someone to stay on life support when the family supported pulling them off."
--How old are you? Your comments are scaring me now. Your personal knowledge or experience aren't aren't a substitute for fact based arguments. This is a very common right wing mindset--that your personal experience qualifies as some sort of substantial research. That's wrong.
bobcat7407Jan 17, 2012
"--A few observations... First, you slammed me for not providing facts but your very first counterargument is a statement based entirely on your opinion."
How would you like me to prove that most people on the right do not support capital punishment unless it is without a doubt? Find me some actual proof that people on the right support capital punishment even with some doubt to innocence and I will retract my statement. I also am responding with opinion because you never posted any facts to respond to. Your argument is also a hypothetical one about supposed inconsistencies that you perceive, what facts should I use to argue with except for debating the hypotheticals you have presented?
"Also, you missed my point about capital punishment. My argument is that if you are all about erring on the side of life in the first two cases, you wouldn't support capital punishment at all. Whether there is doubt or not, human error could result in innocent people being executed. To be consistent with the first two, you wouldn't support capital punishment, period."
I didn't miss your point. I answered it. If there is no doubt, it is not inconsistent to support capital punishment. I already explained this.
"--Ok. No. You're not getting my point at all. My point is that if you insist that every conception must result in pregnancy and that brain-dead people must not have life-support removed (as many on the right believe), then you shouldn't support capital punishment--because, regardless of what the government proves, there is always the chance that someone could be innocently executed."
I still haven't seen your proof that many on the right believe "brain-dead people must not have life-support removed". And are these supposed people trying to FORCE that belief on others? If so, I disagree with that position. I'll wait to answer anymore until you provide the proof. As for the rest, I understand your point and I answered it already. What's your answer if your comments are turned around? By your logic, if you support abortion and pulling the plug, you should also support capital punishment.
"--How old are you? Your comments are scaring me now. Your personal knowledge or experience aren't aren't a substitute for fact based arguments. This is a very common right wing mindset--that your personal experience qualifies as some sort of substantial research. That's wrong."
Scaring you? I never said they are a substitute for fact based arguments, I didn't even try to make that case. I simply stated my experience because YOU have not provided any facts to back up your statements. What you did manage to do is once again generalize an entire group of people...with NO facts. Provide some facts to back up your opinions please, then we can discuss.
inajeepJan 17, 2012
Google terri schiavo to answer your last personally unknown fact. It was in the news forever.
bobcat7407Jan 17, 2012
Here's what I said:
"Personally, I do not know where anyone on the right has tried to FORCE someone to stay on life support when the family supported pulling them off."
Feel free to review the case and see where you are incorrect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo_case
ultimisJan 17, 2012
That's funny, when I finished reading anti-koolaids post I thought the same thing. Ranting without providing lucid points doesn't equate to anything meaningful.
Closed AccountJan 15, 2012
You're so cute, aadyss. Actually, I receive a bonus every time some silly uneducated con replies to one of my posts and fails to refute even one of my arguments. I could probably pay next month's rent based on your posts from this past week alone. Keep up the good work. ;-)
bobcat7407Jan 16, 2012
Your "arguments" are a bunch of garbage talking points. Post something with some actual facts next time, although I doubt you're interested in an actual debate.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountJan 16, 2012
bobsy, thanks for trolling along like a good little conjob and proving you're just as sad and poorly educated as your pal aadyss. You can't refute squat and you freaking well know it. You're not challenging me by asking for "facts." All you could drool out in response to my post was some of your usual horsesh*t. I could slap you across your slack jawed face with facts all day long and your extremely low-voltage battery powered brain would spark and short out within seconds. Please do us bothe a favor and run along now. Your grade school peers over at the Nickelodeon website are probably missing you.
bobcat7407Jan 16, 2012
That's about the response I expected. Go ahead, source all of your "facts" and then we'll talk. I'll be waiting...
bobcat7407Jan 16, 2012
By the way, "source" doesn't mean one random example. Show me the specific and multiple examples that would justify a broad generalization of a massive group of people.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountJan 16, 2012
lol why don't you wanna talk to me? ;-( Why are you harping on this distinction between factual arguments vs philosophical ones? Did you even read the story? The comment that sparked this writer was from a FOX news bimbo who said:
“Greens love animals but they hate people!”
--So, just so we're on the same page, bob...Is that what you would call a factual argument? If so, please explain how my arguments are different and why they aren't deserving of a response. Thanks. I genuinely welcome your response.
bobcat7407Jan 16, 2012
I didn't read the article. I have gotten to the point with politicususa that I do not even bother reading their articles. I have tried on every one for about the last 10 times I've looked, but they have been over-sensationalized garbage every time.
I'm also not going to defend FOX. Anytime I look at anything from them I take it with a LARGE grain of salt and fact check.
And no, you're quote from FOX is not something I would call fact based or a reasonable argument. But I would say it is close to many of the talking points you posted. The problem, I am guessing, is that FOX takes some whacko who does hate people/love animals and tries to paint all environmentalists that way. Are there probably a few? Sure. Are the a representative of most? Not even close.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
bobcat7407Jan 16, 2012
"lol why don't you wanna talk to me? ;-( Why are you harping on this distinction between factual arguments vs philosophical ones?"
Sorry to hurt your feelings! :(
I don't mind dealing with either argument type, but the problem is when they are mixed. Presenting a philosophical argument as fact based (i.e. saying that a broad group of people hold this opinion) requires facts to back it up. If you want to simply debate the issues that's fine, but generalizing a position and then assigning to a huge group of people does not work most of the time.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountJan 16, 2012
bob, you already admitted that you came here and started attacking my arguments without having read the story. Why do you think others should jump through hoops to explain their positions when you've made no effort to consider why they feel the way they do? I don't agree with the FOX person but at least that statement I quoted gives me an idea why so many people on the right misunderstand and ridicule environmentalists. Before I start running around and jumping to your tune, why don't you tell me what kinds of sources you would accept (so that you can't turn around and then claim that this or that source is biased or Soros is the boogeyman, blah blah blah)?
bobcat7407Jan 16, 2012
Why does it matter if I read the article in responding to your statements? What does that change? Your arguments are still the same, and my response is still the same. The statement you quoted, which I don't know anything more about than your quote, simply shows one piece of a much larger picture. That is the problem, you can't just take one little piece and paint an entire group with that. Both sides could do that with equally ridiculous results. Isn't Fred Phelps a Democrat? So, should I be able to describe his positions as ones shared by all Democrats? Of course not. I'd much rather simply debate the issues than the people involved personally.
Sources should be actual, fact based sources. As in, if you want to accuse the GOP of representing something, show where they claimed that as part of their platform or as legislation that was supported by the party. Opinions are fine, but they are not fact based sources.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
inajeepJan 17, 2012
That last comment bob made made me report him for stupidity.
bobcat7407Jan 17, 2012
@inajeep
Thanks for your insight!
inajeepJan 17, 2012
@Bobcat: No problem.
ChuppacabraJan 16, 2012
You really didn't expect much more than, "You're stoopid" for a response from this clown, did you?
Closed AccountJan 16, 2012
LOL...Yes, chuckie. Because your fellow conroach offers such awesome pearls of wisdom, right? I love that you guys are here whacking off together getting all defensive--instead of actually trying to offer even a facsimile of a rational response. Listen, I know it can't feel good when someone (especially an evil liberal like myself) points out all the blatant inconsistencies and hypocrisies demonstrated by the right wing. You cannot dispute *one* single thing I wrote. You know this. That's why the best you and your knuckle-dragging buddies can do is squeak out a lame, reactionary insult--right before you dart back to your hole in the wall. All I ask you to do is explain how even *one* of the inconsistencies and hypocrisies is wrong. You're sitting here blathering that I have nothing useful to offer. I'm giving you a chance to engage like an adult. So go ahead. Explain to me in what ways all (or any) of my statements about FOX and its drones are wrong. Please do it. ;-P
bobcat7407Jan 16, 2012
No I didn't. I'm not sure where AntiKoolaid gets his/her talking points, maybe they are just copy/pasted from somewhere. I don't know. They're pretty much just designed to get a bunch of diggers to give a thumbs up. Really Anti is more of a troll than anything as far as I can tell.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
ChuppacabraJan 16, 2012
@AntiKoolaid
I'm just waiting for you to make a point - any point.
You never say anything in any of your posts. You offer hyperbole and ad hominem attacks and thats about it.
If you want a real debate, you're going to have to up your game........considerably.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
particleman420Jan 17, 2012
that's your problem chupacaca, you are waiting for something that you lack the ability to recognize.
that's why you're waiting for something that happened a long time ago and you cant even see it, since you dont even understand what it is.
you are the worst question dodger on this site, except unlike the rest of the question dodging hacks on the site who dodge because they know they're wrong, you dodge it because you dont understand the question or the topic you're pretending to participate in.
Closed AccountJan 17, 2012
Chupps, I'm waiting for you to sprout a brain and realize that 99% of what you post here is pure unadulterated excrement that no one takes seriously. Tell you what, I'll mark you down as a waste of oxygen from here on (I suspected as much from your first asinine post) and leave you to play with yourself in a corner like a toddler. See ya. ;-P
ChuppacabraJan 18, 2012
@KookAid
That suits me fine. What's my loss afterall?
The idiotic opinions of another hypocritical liberal incapable of arguing beyond, "You're Stoopid!"
Wow.
What a loss.
timedalkatJan 16, 2012
Sorry you're so upset.
Pagan. Funny stuff there.
tjmarshall86Jan 16, 2012
Hahaha you just got raped with knowledge. Well done koolaid, "oh,yeaaa!"
ultimisJan 17, 2012
"infallible when it comes to capital punishment"
Justice is just that. It's not infallible but it's one of the main tenants of society historically. If you'd like to get rid of justice, feel free to do so. But locking someone up for the rest of their life when they're innocent is just as bad as killing someone when they're innocent.
"the "sanctity of life" party wants all hands on deck and believes it absolutely must take a village to decide a woman's reproductive rights but when the time comes to feed, clothe, educate and provide healthcare for the children they force women to bear, they're suddenly repulsed by socialism "
It is by no means a majority that wants to keep brain dead people on life support. The woman has all the rights in the world to choose to have sex, with who, and if she or her partner decided to wear protection. If she manages to get "knocked up" or conceived a new human life, she does not have some sort of ultimate authority that in the past was only reserved for kings to kill humans without any checks and balances. In *modern* society we usually have "regulations" and checks and balances put into place to make sure the killing of a human life is done so only in necessary cases. So when a police officer shoots someone during the line of duty, even though himself/herself were in danger they *still* have to fill out a mountain of paperwork over the incident.
"feed, clothe, educate and provide healthcare"
Unlike stopping people from committing murder or burglary or providing defense, the government's limited role doesn't not include those things.
"even if that means leaving their heirs a planet that's crumbling from neglect and choking with pollution."
Very few republicans have taken this position. The EPA belongs at the state level, not the federal level. The only time pollution should be a federal matter is when the pollution literally crosses state lines (which it does) at which point federal regulation can be imposed. Currently the EPA has over stepped the bounds of the federal government. CO2 is also not a pollutant.
"Rick Santorum (this week)--even though he recently helped cover up John Ensign's sleazy, hypocritical and thoroughly disgusting extramarital affair."
Who or what? I couldn't care less. Rick isn't going to win any election.
"the *marriage is for straight people only* party thinks straight people do it best. And who would know better than the likes of Trump, Newt, and Giuliani?"
Utter bulls**t. Your post gets more convoluted the further we get into it.
"the "family values" party supposedly believes that we must do everything we can to promote marriage (between a man and a woman) and strengthen the family--which apparently includes screwing the middle class and making their lives a living hell (in a desperate attempt to get back into office and destroy the country even more than they did under 8 years of Bush)."
What the f**k does this even mean? You state a twisted version of what the Republicans support than go off on a unsubstantiated bulls**t sprint? What the hell is wrong with digg where a post so completely and utterly devoid of any intellectual thought could actually get a positive digg number.
"and who the hell even knows what these people think about education anymore? They're so deeply and truly concerned about our public schools, they say but what they're really deeply and truly concerned about is destroying teachers unions. Intelligent, and articulate SC nominees with ivy league degrees are just dreamy. Ivy league educated Presidents, OTOH, are "elitist" --unless he's an incoherent Republican from TX. Then he's a winsome bumbling straight talker just full of down home casual charm. So, to review, they want their Presidents to be scholarly and intelligent but also simple and plain spoken. They don't mind if their President uses flashcards to pronounce world leaders' names but a President who uses a teleprompter--well, that's just totally unacceptable."
You're not in full blown rant mode with not a single point in this entire garble of words. You seem to be fishing for the idea that the Republicans hate intellectuals.
"the capitalism is nirvana party doesn't think public sector workers and other working class Americans have the right to ask for job security and decent wages and benefits--but they don't object to the taxpayer footing the bill for their six figure salaries and benefits."
Public workers work for the people of the United States. If they don't care for how much tax payers can afford, they can move into the private sector. Republicans were against the bailouts moron, please review democrats.
"the capitalism is nirvana party wants homeowners with underwater mortgages to suffer for the risks they took--but they fight to eliminate as much risk and accountability as possible for the industries and corporations who bankroll their campaigns. "
This s**t is now seeping out of your eyes now. Republicans have been consistently against the efforts by Democrats to remove the risk of giving out risky loans.
"the voter integrity party wants us to believe that they'll stop whining that they are being cheated if we allow the government to card everyone at the ballot box. Oddly, their alleged concerns about voter integrity don't extend to the millions of Americans who will likely be denied their right to vote as a result of right wing's voter suppression campaign. I could go on and on. Right wing assbackwardness positively breathtaking."
Republicans have generally never claimed they were cheated out of a election. Democrats on the other hand still claim Bush stole the 2000 election to this day. Republicans have asked that those voting are verified as legitimate citizens, which somehow disqualifies "millions" of people (I'm assuming illegal immigrants).
I'm sure you could go on and on with your ranting. Perhaps you could actually make a lucid point if you kept typing long enough. I doubt it.
ChuppacabraJan 18, 2012
tltr
jefffurryJan 15, 2012
They're confusing correlation with causation, as usual.
I mean, just because I hate people AND I love the planet, doesn't mean that one causes the other. :-)
And I don't hate all people. Just some of them. Well, lots of 'em. :-)
caseycooldJan 16, 2012
http://memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/12/12833/13141291.jpg
johnnysoftwareJan 15, 2012
If you love people, you don't watch Fox news.
If terrorists kill your family member(s), Fox News' conglomerate listens to you.
Well, not directly but voice mail is the next best thing.
analogkid1Jan 15, 2012
According to Fox News: <PLACE RIDICULOUS STATEMENT HERE>
johnnysoftwareJan 15, 2012
Aren't they the corporation that committed espionage against innocent terrorist victims and interfered with an active police investigation that was trying to save a little kidnapped girl from being raped/killed in the UK?
FOX and company have a terrible reputation. The corporation appointed a guy in charge of the WSJ that of course was linked into the whole mess above because he was a good company man, like the crooks at News of the World were in general.
Next, Fox will claim that people that don't bribe policemen to break the law hate law & order. 0_o
They have terrible ethic.
aadyssJan 15, 2012
Sorry, that comment keeps you at the non-salaried position at PoliticusUSA. The "ethic" word? Come on.
glueJan 16, 2012
We can live without the people. We can't live without the Planet. I choose the Earth.
karmashockJan 16, 2012
What's stopping you from killing yourself then?... Go on... We're waiting... if you want to compromise and sterilize yourself we'll accept that too...Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
rudegarJan 16, 2012
what if I hate both?
mobberJan 15, 2012
i mean, what's so special about people? f**k 'em...
johnnysoftwareJan 15, 2012
If Fox News was serious about "tradition" they would get back to their roots.
Namely, Australia.
aadyssJan 15, 2012
Yes, we should ship all of these jobs to Australia. A little outsourcing sure should indeed help your cause.
bookantJan 15, 2012
You forgot to call him an employee of PoliticusUSA. That seems to be your one and only comment - anyone who doesn't drink the FOX Kool-Aid works for PoliticusUSA!
aadyssJan 15, 2012
Well...duh!
johnnysoftwareJan 15, 2012
Here's a guy that FOX fave George Bush isn't talking to these days.
The funny thing is ... he's the guy that George Bush put on FOX and other network TV screens to talk to America.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_McClellan
He endorsed Obama in the 2008 Presidential election.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/10/mcclellan-endorses-obama.html
To put the reason succinctly, the Bush/Fox dynamic caused the right wing party to "spin" out. Permanently.
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1810019,00.html
FTA: On the fifth page of the preface McClellan bluntly writes, "History appears poised to confirm what most Americans today have decided — that the decision to invade Iraq was a serious strategic blunder." That blunder, he continues, was one propagated by a "political propaganda machine" that misled the public on the reasons for war with Iraq.
But see FOX was the uncritical ear, the blind eye, and the willing mouthpiece of the administration.
aadyssJan 15, 2012
Politicususa toady?
Closed AccountJan 16, 2012
Nope. Sorry. No, no, no... that doesn't count 'cause he was hawking a book I think. No one who criticizes the Bush administration could possibly have a legitimate reason.
johnnysoftwareJan 15, 2012
Dam_ed if Fox didn't say it hated Muppets too because they made fun of an imaginary oil tycoon after Deepwater horizon splashed toxic/carcinogenic goo around in the Gulf of Mexico, where some people used to fish and vacation.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/05/fox-news-the-muppets-are-communist_n_1129173.html
Murdoch didn't go swimming on a beach that globs of oil were washing up on, did he?
laurahoustonJan 15, 2012
wuda, cute, cuddly, rabid, fox
bluenose2Jan 15, 2012
Foaming at the mouth rabid Fox !!
aadyssJan 15, 2012
Naw, no money from PoliticusUSA for you guys. Maybe you should go to work at rawstory for a while and collect your thoughts.
particleman420Jan 15, 2012
it's a shame you didnt take my advice about that one track mind.
your propaganda skills are weak. the DP will be disappointed in you.
johnnysoftwareJan 15, 2012
Do you even read the articles, notice the subject, look at the facts and logic or just act like a paid minion of Rupert because looking stupid doesn't bother you?
This isn't the same thing the conglomerate has been caught attacking that particular show. They aren't very good at disputing they ever said something on the air, though they try.
They aren't called 'Faux News' because their owner is French, you can be sure.
Look, here is a review of Fox's slur brought to you by Perez Hilton. Media relations Pro-tip: if Perez Hilton makes your corporation seem petty and actually pulls it off - it is!
http://perezhilton.com/2011-12-05-fox-business-network-takes-on-the-muppets-during-an-episode-of-follow-the-money#.TxNAq5jv-Ek
If FOX viewers don't want it to say borderline insane stuff, or just regular insane stuff so it gets called on it -- just write them and tell them not to do it. Don't write the rest of the media and say they're all a bunch of 'liberals' for not letting FOX take such liberties!
Speaking of which, anyone else see the irony in FOX[oids]' complaint?
aadyssJan 15, 2012
politicusUSA is looking for additional non-salaried bloggers who are adept at:
1. making false accusations
2. taking things out of context
3. misrepresentation
4. lying
5. pagan worship
6. hangin' in restrooms
7. smokin' pot
8. whining
If you satisfy at least half of the above requirements, please submit your entitledbutclueless.com. By the way, half means 4.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
bluenose2Jan 15, 2012
I think you are describing Digg Patriots !!
particleman420Jan 16, 2012
of course he's describing the Digg Propagandists. that's their #1 tactic. To take whatever it is that they do and are doing and blame the other side of doing it.
dougnic55Jan 15, 2012
right greed is good....corporations are the cathedrals of modern capitalist religion and the planet is ours to use up...you know resources are free to the finder...environmentalist love the planet and people...there is no reason we can not change our behavior...
practikelJan 16, 2012
Fox News is a waste of money and intelligence. This company is always reporting nonsense and can't be taken seriously. When will they realize they're one big joke and give up?!
ChuppacabraJan 17, 2012
Same time NBC, ABC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN, Time, Newsweek, PoliticUSA, Daily KOS, NYT, Chicago Sun Times, Los Angeles Times, the Arizona Republic (basically anything owned by Gannett) all throw in the towel.
practikelJan 17, 2012
I understand that they're all corrupt to some extent...but c'mon, Fox is by far the worst...
ChuppacabraJan 18, 2012
Not from my pespective they're not.
Not even close.
I don't see Fox going live days before a national election broadcasting crap they know is an utter lie in an unabashed attempt to throw an election.
I don't see Fox news anchors going on the air claiming their job is to "get Barack Obama elected"
practikelJan 18, 2012
Did you see that Canada is not allowing Fox to air a show in their country based on their strict no lying laws during a news broadcast? Fox News also has some poor math skills based on the graphs that added up to more than 100%. But you must be right, they're just like all the others.
ChuppacabraJan 18, 2012
So the Canadians have their version of the Fairness Doctrine in place?
You don't see any political motivation behind this at all?
btw -
You can get Fox News in Canada if your cable provider carries it...which is exactly how I get Fox News
smokedgoudaJan 16, 2012
Unless by people you mean a corporation. Then you don't hate actual people, just hate, you know living and breathing people.
cyberdactylJan 15, 2012
Politiususa accusing another of spin is the epitome of irony.
caseycooldJan 16, 2012
You should spend some time with a dictionary and go over a few of the words in your sentence...
leonard2Jan 15, 2012
Anoither load of crap coming from Politicrapususa... Buried.
Closed AccountJan 16, 2012
Couldn't refute any arguments in this story either, huh? ;-P
leonard2Jan 16, 2012
What's to refute? It's a load of crap. It's a non story. It's just another Politicususa story to get the lwnj's collective panties in a bunch.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountJan 17, 2012
Like I said...You have exactly ZERO debate skills and you can't refute squat. Run along, my child. ;-P
leonard2Jan 17, 2012
I don't debate with crack-pots. I just point it out when I see it.
ChuppacabraJan 18, 2012
Another deep hitting, intellectual power house response from the KookAid....
Closed AccountJan 18, 2012
LOL...You're such a scholar, chuckie. ;-P
GentlemanGhost542Jan 18, 2012
maybe someone should list all the sites that are a "load of crap" that he thumbs up,
for example
-weaselzippers
-the blaze
just to name a few
karmashockJan 15, 2012
ehm... not sure what fox said, but there are a lot of enviros that hate people. It doesn't take much to get them talking about how the planet is over populated and we need a massive die off. They tend to recommend forced birth control and often eugenics which is ironic on many levels.
Anyway, loving the planet doesn't mean you hate people or vice versa. But there are some people that mask their hatred of people with environmentalism or carry their environmentalism to such extents that they see human life as an obstacle.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
ChuppacabraJan 15, 2012
We don't want to hear this. If not for Man, there would be no pollution, no greehouse gasses, no hurricanes, no volcanos, no forest fires, no tornados, certainly no tsunamis, every animal that ever existed would still be walking (or flying, or swimming on) the planet,,,they would all be living in peace; harmoniously coexisting on a planet devoid of any superstitious beliefs in the hereafter.
Oh.
And they would have free health care and be able to get abortions on demand as well.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
ericschc1Jan 15, 2012
I'm sorry, but you're an idiot. No environmentalist blames natural disasters like hurricanes, volcanoes, forest fires, tornadoes or tsunamis on people.
Even if you were only trying to be snide, the mere presence of people who naively believe an invisible man gave us clearance to choke the planet for every last natural resource, with no threat of biological recourse, means your comment is still vilifying the wrong group of "idiots"...or you're a member of said bigger group of idiots yourself.
Compared to people who think God said "use every last thing you can", I'll take my chances with the environmentalists, thanks.
karmashockJan 15, 2012
Look at the cover of "An Inconvenient Truth"... you'll see a hurricane coming out of a smokestack.
Enviros have been blaming "weather" on pollution for decades.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
ericschc1Jan 15, 2012
Wow, you're stupid.You're basing your claim on the ARTWORK of a movie that's attempting to compare similar destructive propensities of pollution & natural disasters??? The movie's not true because the cover art depicts something a little outlandish?
No one claims tornadoes or hurricanes are directly caused by pollution & yes, even Al Gore knows that tornadoes and hurricanes are naturally occurring phenomena. Having said that (& as long we're going to exaggerate each others' claims), denying the evidence that man can have ANY affect on the weather sounds directly like something out of the dark ages. Any minimum wage gardener can tell you what a carbon buildup does in a greenhouse and even scientific resources not supporting man-made climate change note INARGUABLE global increases in carbon.
Using the defense that something doesn't exist or isn't happening because an associated piece of artwork isn't 110% realistic is like saying that the Spanish Civil War never happened because Picasso's "Guernica" wasn't photo-realistic enough.
karmashockJan 16, 2012
Are you really so stupid as to think that art work was the total justification for my point or so completely ignorant as to not realize that Al Gore pointblank blamed the hurricanes on Global warming?
Game set match... you're too ignorant to have this conversation.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
friday1970Jan 16, 2012
"No one claims tornadoes or hurricanes are directly caused by pollution"
All we heard after Hurricane Katrina is that due to man-made global warming, we are to be expecting larger and even deadlier hurricanes.
So, in 2006, warmist put their cameras on Florida's beaches waiting for that big, forecasted hurricane that was sure to come that year.
...They've been waiting now for 5 years.
Meanwhile, they've blamed earthquakes, floods, and tornados on global warming. Heck, even bees, children not sleeping, and a whole other list of things...all on man-made global warming.
Read that list...here: http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm
inajeepJan 17, 2012
The debate is still out whether commenters such as karmashock and chuppa are just trolls or are truly as stupid and troll-like in thinking. The world may never know or care.
ChuppacabraJan 18, 2012
Who are you debating with? Yourself? Or is this just another sock puppet account owned and operated by KookAid?
karmashockJan 15, 2012
Well I was amused.
Closed AccountJan 16, 2012
"And they would have free health care and be able to get abortions on demand as well."
--I've never quite understood this talking point. What does it mean? How else would they get an abortion unless they asked for one? Also, aren't men able to get vasectomies and penile implants "on demand" as well? I just don't get what it's supposed to mean. Thanks.
ChuppacabraJan 17, 2012
"I just don't get what it's supposed to mean."
And this is something new?
Closed AccountJan 17, 2012
You mean as opposed to all the brilliant one lined juvenile horsesh*t that squeezes from your extremely tiny brain day in and day out? My bad for thinking you might have something meaningful to add, pinhead.
ChuppacabraJan 18, 2012
All I can say is how much I'd really enjoy meeting you in person.
leodinJan 15, 2012
That's a straw man argument. Obviously, no matter what we do to the environment, the planet will be fine. If we trash the environment, it's us who die, not the planet. The idea that environmentalists want people dead, therefore, is f**king stupid. No one's out there saying, "To save the human race, the human race needs to die!"
dusanmalJan 15, 2012
Environmentalists wanting people dead is overreach. The proper frame is that environmentalists put Earth and everything else on Earth FIRST and humans and human activity SECOND in almost religious ways. Environmentalists think that we somehow should be responsible for other species and some imaginary perfect "balance of the Earth" that would exist without us. Example : "pristine Nature" they strive for defined as part of Earth ecosystem where human activities have not encroached and to which humans are typically attracted on deep level.
The scientific truth is that we are one of completely Natural species here on Earth. As for any other species it is our evolutionary duty to spread and take over habitats, FIGHT other species eliminating competitors and making use of others. To put it in words of famous mythologist J.Campbell "Life is vicious". By proper definition "pristine Nature" is any large city or industrial park as much as middle of Alaskan forest. We and our activities are NOT supernatural. We are attracted to those areas where there is no human impact yet by that same evolutionary instinct that environmentalists pervert: it is habitat that we CAN take over, where we can spread to by the basic evolutionary dictate. It is beautiful because we could make use of it, not because Nature is somehow better without us.
Proper environmental care (and I can talk about it spending 4 years of my life volunteering to re-plant deforested mountains) must be balance where humans are FIRST. Where human interest to exploit resources in order to progress is appreciated more than any lizard, turtle or a tree in a way. Greatest Solar Power plant would kill some turtles? - fine, human advance is more important than all the turtles in the world, never mind few impacted. Rare lizard impacted by oil drilling - human need for energy is paramount versus so poorly adapted species that it can't live or move itself somewhere else.... We are not their keepers or associates, we are in competition where losers die out.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
leodinJan 15, 2012
You yourself, however, are making the same mistake that the people you criticize do - you're still imagining life in a vacuum. You assume that things which impact other species can't possibly negatively impact us. You're right that life on this planet is constantly changing and evolving, but we've got to be aware of how connected everything is. I don't mean that we've got to go out of our way to protect every little squirrel or whatever, but anytime we disrupt the ecosystem, we need to be aware of possible negative repercussions for us.
karmashockJan 15, 2012
Also keep in mind that we already have bacteria that eat plastic... the environment is already adapting... stop thinking we're going to go back to some pastoral Eden. It isn't happening. It's more likely that we'll have new species that have adapted to the changes we've made.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
ChuppacabraJan 15, 2012
About 2 billion years ago the concentration levels of a certain poisonous gas began to increase.
Some estimate the increase in the concentration of this gas was responsible for the extinction of as much as 90% of life on the planet.
The gas in question?
Oxygen.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
ultimisJan 17, 2012
@Chuppacabra
None of the mass extinctions have been explained. There are many competing theories, but no definite answer as of yet.
In the last 2 billion years consistent glaciation started due to continental drift and CO2 concentrations dropped nearly by over 1,000 ppm. You can even throw in the random asteroid theory.
ChuppacabraJan 18, 2012
@ultimis
Well I suppose opinions are sort of like assh**es, aren't they? Everyone has one, some just smell worse than others.
But I'm not just making this stuff up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxygenation_Event
Seriously.
ChuppacabraJan 15, 2012
<roll theme song from Avatar>
karmashockJan 16, 2012
I laughed for days when I heard people complaining that avatar made them depressed because they couldn't live there.
These same idiots live in cities... likely they saw the movie in a multiplex. If they want to live in the jungle there are plenty of options. No one is stopping them. Enjoy the bugs, diseases, and being cold/wet all the time.
Oh yeah... and no wifi.
karmashockJan 15, 2012
They do say that for the human race to survive a few billion people need to die though.
Are they volunteering? What's stopping them?
leodinJan 15, 2012
Are you saying that we can just have infinite population growth with no negative consequences?
karmashockJan 16, 2012
Of course not. I am saying that if you want the population to shrink, then don't have any children and consider suicide.
The implicit assumption in most anti population rhetoric is that there is a chosen few that will be exempted and it will be some OTHER group of people that will have to be thinned like cattle. It won't be entertained. You can stop fantasizing about it.
leodinJan 16, 2012
So you admit that uncontrolled population growth will eventually lead to negative consequences, but then if anyone talks about it they're crazy? I'm not following. What, exactly, is the proper course to take?
I mean, the facts are simple - if population growth continues, eventually people will die as a result. You yourself conceded this. However, if someone points that out, you think they should be the ones to have to die. What's so wrong about talking about it?
You seem to fall into that category of people who acknowledge that yes, sometimes bad things happen, but you'd rather if no one brought those things to your attention. It's not like you're being forced to do anything about it. s**t, the entire 1st world can pretty much ignore the population issue, as they're not the ones contributing to the problem, and it's not like we can force population control on other countries, so it's literally nothing but talk and that still upsets you. I don't get it.
ChuppacabraJan 16, 2012
@leodin
Finally, a point that can actually be discussed after we cut through all the emotionalism.
I would agree one of the most pressing concerns for our health as a species is the size of our population.
And the problem is, very few people truly grasp or understand exponential growth. At our current growth rate, the world population of human beings doubles about every 35 years. And the really frightening thing is, at any given instant, there are more humans alive on the planet than the sum of all human beings who have ever lived before.
When I was a kid, there were about 2 billion people living on the planet. Now there are 6. When I die, there will be 8 billion. When you die, there will be 16 billion.
Glad you'll be around to see it and I won't. The only "good" thing about it (if you want to call it that) is that Mother Nature has a tendency to rebalance things herself. I would imagine we have some fairly devastating plagues and/or wars on our horizon.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
karmashockJan 16, 2012
We're not lemmings, Leodin. Given access to birth control which is a given throughout the first and second world... humans will limit their reproduction to what they can afford. That includes food, housing, etc.
The third world sometimes has cultural customs that keep this under control. For example, forbidding sex unless people are married and forbidding marriage without clerical authorization can be a form of population control. Also... disease, famine, and war are a fairly reliable way of containing population in such societies.
We don't face uncontrolled population expansion.
In the first world our populations are contained by modern medical practices that allow women to control if they have children... and to some extent probably internet pornography does something to reduce conception.
Everywhere else mother nature is very happy to cull the human herd as she's done for millions of years.
We don't need a bunch of central planning nitwits running around with delusions of godhood. You don't get to decide who lives and who dies. If you try and impose some "one child" program it will first mean your political annihilation. I can't think of anything that would so totally undermine any democrat political push as that. And if you actually succeeded in passing it by some legislative slight of hand then it would mean blood in the streets. Which can be its own kind of population control... civil war is rarely good for the census figures.
Don't make the mistake of thinking we're rodents in some lab experiment. Unlike the rats... we know we're being watched, we know who is watching us, we know why, and we have the keys to the cage.
leodinJan 16, 2012
I wasn't talking about action, I was talking about just discussing the issue in the first place, which as you so thoughtfully pointed out, already affects the third world. I already explained that it isn't really relevant to us in the first world.
Let me make this very clear - just because someone points out that something bad is happening in another part of the world, it doesn't automatically mean they're trying to control your life. You're being way too f**king paranoid. I'm not trying to control anyone's lives, I'm just pointing things out. Quit flipping out and calm the f**k down.
karmashockJan 16, 2012
Primitive people have had this problem when there were less then 1 million people on the whole planet. Population isn't the issue.
These are not problems that are functions of over population but largely functions of incompetence and mismanagement. Population simply makes existing problems less tolerable.
Take Egypt... that's a famous bread basket and they're heavily dependent on imported food. The same is true of many african countries that if properly managed would not only meet all domestic dietary needs but would be net exporters of food. But they are frequently in famine conditions not because of over population but mismanagement. Now, would they not starve if they had fewer people? Possibly... certainly if they maintained current food production while reducing their population then they wouldn't starve. But it's just as likely that their food production will fall as their population falls thus leaving them in the same relative position only with a now smaller labor force. You have to remember that traditional farming requires about 70 percent of the total population just to meet dietary needs. The modern world only gets away with such a tiny fraction of that because of mechanization. As much as people piss on industrial farming it only that makes the current division of labor possible. We would both likely be out in the field every day breaking out backs in the sun where it not for tractors etc.
I used to work with a charity that provides water to remote african villages. It was very depressing because the villages were mostly using open pit wells and were bathing, washing, and watering animals in the same water they drank from. It's difficult to express how stupid that is... it's something that most societies stopped doing about 5000 years ago. This is not a modern innovation. The ancient egyptians would have shaken their heads at these idiots. It takes NO MONEY to stop doing that. You just create a step well where you have multiple tiered wells that drain from one to the next. The TOP well is for human drinking and only for human drinking. The next step is for washing. The step below that is for animals. This is still not very hygienic but it's a thousand times better then an open pit well and all it takes are some mud bricks. Do you think they can afford mud bricks? What they need is straw, mud, and sun. That's it. Give me a good god damn break.
Yet they live in constant threat of water born diseases because they're basically drinking from the same water goats are pissing in... it's exactly that bad.
So... that is the third world. Go visit it if you haven't. I can't do anything but facepalm. It's just too much...
concusionJan 15, 2012
lets rip off 12000 atomic bombs, since the environment can't be effected by people lets see what happens. We'll drop the first one on your house.
karmashockJan 15, 2012
Lets use massive straw men to make opposition arguments look absurd because that certainly wouldn't have any effect on the validity of an argument.
johnnysoftwareJan 15, 2012
I think that is what the 'Burning Man' festival is all about but the straw man always gets burned.
Plus, I don't remember any shows where FOX News complained about too many bombs being dropped.
You have an air date/time for any?
particleman420Jan 16, 2012
anything having to do with Libya, since that was Obama's thing. other than that, probably not so much.
karmashockJan 16, 2012
So you believe in god? Because you're saying that an absence of information can be used as proof of something.
No one wants the world ruined by nuclear bombs. that's an idiotic strawman.
I mean... it's not even clever... it's just the most extreme silly thing that came into someone's head and then used ad hock into someone else's argument... despite the fact that they never said it.
Try again... this time with less sleaze.
johnnysoftwareJan 15, 2012
Well.
Then he won't have to worry about the other 1199, will he?
shark72Jan 15, 2012
"They tend to recommend forced birth control and often eugenics which is ironic on many levels."
[citation needed]
karmashockJan 15, 2012
Ask any self identified enviro on digg and then count to ten.
particleman420Jan 15, 2012
nice answer.
"I dont know, i just made it up!"
karmashockJan 16, 2012
I did say count to ten. Give them a minute and they'll start justifying it. It's really sorta hilarious.
shark72Jan 15, 2012
I'm a self-identified environmentalist, and I do not advocate forced birth control or eugenics.
Seriously -- can you provide a citation?
ChuppacabraJan 15, 2012
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/1992/april1992_earth_balance.html
http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-spokane/ted-turner-calls-for-global-one-child-policy
http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=is-birth-control-the-answer-to-envi-2009-09-23
http://www.oldthinkernews.com/?p=201
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/03/carbon-offset-projects-climate-change
next?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
ChuppacabraJan 16, 2012
Dugg down for providing the man the information he requested.
Gotta love this site and the hairball leftists commenting on it.
particleman420Jan 16, 2012
maybe you should leave it then.
kingliamJan 16, 2012
No man, you are getting downvoted for all of your previous ignorant remarks. People remember the name as they read through the comments.
shark72Jan 16, 2012
This is why you're being dugg down:
Some guy: "[Environmentalists] tend to recommend forced birth control and often eugenics which is ironic on many levels."
Me: "O RLY?"
You: [provides link to a 20-year-old review of an Al Gore book in which Mr. Gore recommends neither forced birth control nor eugenics]
I think your issue is left with "hairball leftists" and more with people who possess a modicum of reading comprehension skills.
However, I do appreciate the link to the Lyndon LaRouche site. I've wondered whatever happened to that fellow... he's a hoot.
ChuppacabraJan 16, 2012
Ah -
So you ask for proof that environmentalists call for forced birth control.
I provide you with links.
And now you've decided these don't meet some criteria you've secretly set.
And you wonder why we don't buy off on your "global warming science" hook, line, and sinker.
If you're not going to believe it, at least have the intellectual honest to cover your ears, shut your eyes, and scream as loud as you can, "I don't care what you say, it doesn't fit my world view so it's bunk!"Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
karmashockJan 16, 2012
No problem, here you go:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=over+population
Closed AccountJan 15, 2012
"ehm... not sure what fox said, but there are a lot of enviros that hate people. It doesn't take much to get them talking about how the planet is over populated and we need a massive die off. They tend to recommend forced birth control and often eugenics which is ironic on many levels."
--I think you meant to say you're not interested in what FOX said. It seems as if you'd rather attack the story for not being perfect. First, you're talking about people who are on the ideological fringe. Those people are the exception, not the rule. Just as no one has argued that voter fraud never happens, this story does not assert that every single environmentalist is some peace loving flower child liberal.
"Anyway, loving the planet doesn't mean you hate people or vice versa. But there are some people that mask their hatred of people with environmentalism or carry their environmentalism to such extents that they see human life as an obstacle."
--Why do you suggest that this is somehow remarkable in the context of this story? I don't agree with the flawed world view you're highlighting here but at least it's coherent. They're people who value the environment over human life. OTOH, how does a party that clearly values the corporate dollar above all else reconcile this with their alleged concern for the future of our children? Well, they don't, actually. When those on the right talk about their heirs, they talk about debt, and deficits and "entitlement programs". They don't express concern that their children will never see a California condor or a polar bear. They aren't worried that those children might never have an unpolluted ocean to swim in. What amazes me is that no one on the right ever seems to question this. None of the deregulation cultists ever want to talk about the negative toll deregulation can take on the environment and the lives and health of people's loved ones.
karmashockJan 15, 2012
enviros are a fringe in and of themselves.
Closed AccountJan 15, 2012
Do you have any purpose in life other than to expel methane?
karmashockJan 16, 2012
You're suggesting I don't think when in fact I demonstrate more individual thinking then most of the nitwits on this site. What were your last ten posts? Just a long stream of half literate insults? Oh you are impressive.
Try again, chump.
particleman420Jan 15, 2012
"ehm... not sure what fox said"
then RTFA and THEN comment. not before.
glassagateJan 16, 2012
Well, those that you speak of are in the fringe.
Anywho, we, as a society, do need to clean up
our act.
If the regulations make it so that coal companies
can't make a profit, the solution shouldn't be to
roll back regulations, but to nationalize the coal
companies.
Peoples' health first, profits second...that is how
it should be.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
karmashockJan 16, 2012
You're too comfortable with nationalizing things. You're not afraid enough of the consequences or respectful enough of the serious drawbacks.
If you want to nationalize the coal industry... could I suggest instead buying them the upgraded parts/equipment to meet the regulations.
You'd buy that anyway if you nationalized it and ultimately companies have a track record of producing things more cheaply then government.
I think government might also be a little more careful with it's regulations if the cost of them came directly out of its own budget rather then being hidden in the budgets of everyone else.
This includes the cost of filling out all the paperwork. Companies pay a significant amount just to comply with regulation that has nothing to do with actually doing something. That is... the regulation is that they fill out some forms and submit them. Someone has to be employed by the company to do that. It hurts the bottom line. Ideally, that sort of expense should be as low as possible and furthermore as much as possible should just be done by government directly.
The biggest expense like that is taxes. Every year companies and individuals spend BILLIONS collectively doing their taxes. The tax code is complicated and requires lots of documentation, professional accountants, and endless paperwork. The government could help the economy out a great deal if it found ways to get revenue that didn't create that much paperwork in the process.
Sadly, the paperwork is there in large part to allow people to not pay taxes or reduce their tax rate. A better solution would be to remove the deductions, lower the rate, and then everyone pays the same amount to the government that they would with all the paper work. Only now they don't have to waste their time with it. That will result in more money in the economy and likely a higher income due to increased efficiency.
So everyone wins... except tax accountants.
ChuppacabraJan 16, 2012
Absolutely agree with your entire post, Karma.
Closed AccountJan 16, 2012
if there's global warming does this make me hot blooded???
bcronosJan 15, 2012
"Which leads me to my next point. Since homo sapiens translates as “wise man,” we can conclude that Fox News is not run by human beings (in the plural, homines sapientes), a.k.a. “people.” After all, higher-level thought processes such as self-awareness and rationality are considered to be defining features of what constitutes a “person.”
So Fox may be an animal, but that would infer that we, the “greens” (aka: people who like living) love them. Clearly this is not factual. If not an animal, and still a living thing (something we have not yet established), Fox News is a plant, fungus or single-celled organism. Fox News: Living thing or not? You may vote in the comment section but please give your reasons for your choice. Example: Fox News is a single-cell organism as proven every time one of their hosts opens their mouths. Or Fox News is not a living thing as proven by the mechanical hearts under the Fox puppets (please cite sources). Etc." ---
Nothing like the all-inclusive and tolerant left, huh?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountJan 15, 2012
the search for ailen life should begin a bit closer to home, like in dc- G. carlin
mtownJan 15, 2012
Not sure how you got to most of your statement there, but I obviously agree that Fox News is a living, breathing, entity/force. It is like a parasitic fungus/organism, convincing or misleading its host into thinking it is necessary but it is actually sucking the life out of it.
aadyssJan 15, 2012
mtown,
There you go. You may move up in that Pagan organization,politicusUSA, and with that comment you may even be lucky enough to finally move from your non-salaried position and receive a small stipend.
How many slams against Fox News does it take to make a dollar at politicusUSA? You may now sing:
"Well we're movin on up,
To the east side.
To a deluxe apartment in the sky.
Movin on up,
To the east side.
We finally got a piece of the pie." No longer living in mtown.
The rich will finally be "paying their fair share and "corporate greed" will be eradicated, everyone will "live the dream" and life will just be super-duper.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
concusionJan 15, 2012
who gives a s**t? How many democrats does fox news need to slam to scare old racist white people into watching every day for a buck? You're a f**king retard shut the hell up.
aadyssJan 15, 2012
Keep going. The memo on the bulletin board about receiving a stipend at PoliticusUSA has been removed but the requirements are posted in the ladies room in the back.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
leonard2Jan 15, 2012
Do you call yourself concusion because that's what is wrong with your brain and why you can't spell it right?
particleman420Jan 15, 2012
looks like you hurt at least 2 of the retard's feelings. i think the rest of them must have been smart enough to keep their mouths shut rather than making themselves look even dumber by falling for your bait.
ChuppacabraJan 15, 2012
Gosh -
I'm so glad to hear all that dumb crap they keep spewing on Fox about Libs being intolerant spoiled children who apparently were never taught manners is all nonsense.
I'm sure glad you guys are willing to give us silly old stupid white people a seat at your table.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
particleman420Jan 16, 2012
oops, there are 3 now.
ChuppacabraJan 16, 2012
Oh look at that - PM420 should be able to count all the way up to 10 by himself in no time.
Gotta love the new and improved Public School System.
particleman420Jan 16, 2012
you are still only #3
bcronosJan 15, 2012
Did you read the hate filled article?
johnnysoftwareJan 15, 2012
I think he was poking fun at FOX for adding extra digits to agency staffing head counts and loving the exploding Deepwater Horizon oil platform more than it loves people or the planet.
The hate filling you are referring to is served by whom?