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cautionAug 23, 2010
What else would the political right talk about?
This islamic community center gives them a golden opportunity to posture.
zzekeAug 23, 2010
There's plenty of posturing going on on both sides of the aisle:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/243985/more-democrats-against-gz-mosque-matthew-shaffer
http://www.politico.com/blogs/maggiehaberman/0810/NY_members_in_swing_districts_coming_out_against_mosque_.html
This whole "hot-button issue" was concocted and brought to light in order to provide both sides with a distraction from the horrible job they've all been doing. As long as we're being divided by the pols and the press on this non-issue, we're not thinking of what a s**tty job our congressmen have done since the last election, and beyond. IMO any politician who gives this bulls**t his or her valuable time is just pandering for votes one way or the other.
You can't see the "mosque" from GZ, or vice-versa. This whole thing is nothing but a big pile of election-year hay, and both parties are eager to dig their pitchforks in and pile enough of it on top of the real issues that they can ignore them.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
cautionAug 23, 2010
actually, the right is running with it moreso, although I agree that this is a non-issue made into a political issue.
all the right pundits are whole hog on this, Rush, Hannity, Beck, and the also rans.
i think it's going to backfire myself (even for the dems who fell over it like Ried and Pelosi)
mabsarkAug 28, 2010
Everyone should boycott Digg on Monday.
tomleykisAug 25, 2010
The idiots that buried you, wonder which side are they on
holeechitAug 25, 2010
I hate it when a valid point gets voted down and ends up "below the viewing threshold". this whole system of thumbs up or down determining weather or not the comment will be visible is complete and utter bulls**t. I feel this way about both comments I agree with and comments I disagree with. I mean, comments that are hateful or irrelevant should be "below the viewing threshold". But this current system leads to bulls**t arguing tactics. Especially since large groups of assh**es like the "digg patriots" have been uncovered. IMO this is going to make digg just as dangerous as fox news.
Regardless of whether you agree with zzeke or not his comment should not have been buried. It only serves to prove that your opinion is wrong when you cannot present a valid counterpoint and you childishly resort to sweeping the comment you agree with under the rug.
juliusthecatAug 25, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
thesavantAug 25, 2010
You can change the comment settings, HoLeeChit.
holeechitAug 25, 2010
thanks for that. now i feel utterly stupid
rattusrattusAug 25, 2010
I was reading this the other day:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer?currentPage=all
Essentially, a couple of billionaires are funding and fomenting the type of people you see protesting this mosque. It's not about America, nor our right, but a couple of wealthy Libertarians making the most of this moment. As far as the politicians go--oftentimes the Democrats remain silent about things, and that's not an effective strategy, nor does the Republican populist strategy always work. I think it does need to be said, by politicians, that religious freedom is important. Probably a little more forcefully than Obama did.
akchrsAug 25, 2010
I like talking about how badly you are going to lose in 2010.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
Grab your pitchfork and join the rest of the angry mouth-breathers at the polls then.
akchrsAug 25, 2010
Breathers?? I hope we are breathing. Although I tend to be a nose-breather.
marx2kAug 25, 2010
So sad that all this bulls**t is going on in America right now and all some people can talk about is how their football team is looking for November.
juliusthecatAug 25, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
fuhgetabotitAug 25, 2010
If by posture you mean this....
http://riverdaughter.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/head-up-ass.jpg
I'll have to agree with you.
sanmanAug 25, 2010
basically, the Digg Left want to spit on the genuine heartfelt sentiments of 70% of the population whom polls show as opposing the mosque
take a poll in Hiroshima on whether a Truman statue should be built there
take a poll in Arnhem on whether a statue of Bomber Harris should be built there
it doesn't take a genius to figure it out
only the die-hard stubborn and venomous Left are intent on making this yet a new stick to beat their opponents with
suddenly, Islam is being re-made into the posterboy of religious tolerance. Sorry, it's not - its track record is far worse than that of other religions.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
labdiscoAug 25, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
sanmanAug 25, 2010
No, you're dumb.
Since the Burlington Coat Factory got hit by a piece of the plane, that makes it part of Ground Zero.
Funny how the Republic-not-a-Democracy line gets selectively trotted out selectively by a populist Left. I seriously doubt the Founders would support the rabid ideology of today's Left.
Citing Murdoch's Saudi investor merely amounts to name-dropping in order to avoid the fact that you Leftists oppose News Corp anyway, so how does bin Talal's involvement make the mosque more likeable? It doesn't.
But that's the kind of desperate debating tactics the Left have to stoop do.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
e46fanAug 27, 2010
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That's the funniest thing I've read all day!
travelsonicAug 25, 2010
"No, you're dumb.
Since the Burlington Coat Factory got hit by a piece of the plane, that makes it part of Ground Zero."
Since the places under the flight path got saturated in the aircraft's fuel/vapor, that is ground zero now. Because Boston Logan was origin to the flights hijacked, that is now ground zero.
/idiot.
jgzmanAug 25, 2010
Part of ground zero? Really? That is a new record for stupidest thing I've heard in a long time. Hits 'this year' easily. Might make it to the five year mark.
starlessknightAug 25, 2010
"Since the Burlington Coat Factory got hit by a piece of the plane, that makes it part of Ground Zero."
So no Islamic affiliated group, foundation, religious or community center of any kind may ever be built on the grounds of or inside the new "Freedom" Tower (or whatever we're calling it)? Why? Because they loosely share the same religion as those that crashed planes into the World Trade Center?
Tell me, where's the outrage for our military base in Hiroshima (it's a site you, yourself, invoked)? After all, they're directly related to the United States, who we all know is responsible for fire bombing numerous cities and then nuking not one, but two cities. I think it's kind of insensitive we're still there, don't you? But you're not offended by our presence there because... well, hell, they're American, right?
rattusrattusAug 25, 2010
Take a poll in Hiroshima whether a Christian Church should be built there.
Take a poll in Arnhem whether a cross should be erected there.
Fixed it!
sanmanAug 25, 2010
You can digg me down - I don't care.
When "right-wingers" like Harry Reid and Howard Dean have publicly come out and gone on record to oppose the mosque and call for its relocation, then that pulls the rug out from under your contrived rationale.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
travelsonicAug 25, 2010
What rational? That they still have the right to build where they are? Popularity or lack therefore does not trump that right, stupid.
labdiscoAug 25, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
sanmanAug 25, 2010
You're moving the Middle East to NYC, and laying the seeds for Middle Eastern theocracy to take root there. Islam recognizes no separation between Church and State, and you're forgetting that.
Keep the Middle East back in the Middle East.
All of a sudden, Islam is being given a fundamental makeover, and the communities who have been victims of Islamic intolerance are being told to STFU. No, that's not going to happen - not in your wildest dreams.
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
LosAlamosLabsAug 25, 2010
FREEDOM OF RELIGION. PERIOD.
And to hell with the freedom of speech for anyone who finds a mosque at ground zero offensive.
(Seriously, how do you not see the irony in your ranting there? Surely people can try to pressure the mosque to be built elsewhere just as surely as moonbeam diggers will try to boycott Glenn Beck sponsors to get him off the air.)Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
travelsonicAug 25, 2010
"You're moving the Middle East to NYC, and laying the seeds for Middle Eastern theocracy to take root there. "
[CITATION NEEDED]
As in, got proof besides uncited bulls**t?
curunirAug 25, 2010
I'm afraid this entire issue is blinding people. Nobody seems to be able to see the issue beyond their own left-right paradigm BS.
The "Tea Party" people that I associate with are NOT supporting the opposition to this mosque - Ron Paul even came out against all the demagoguery (although I agree with the article that it's a wider issue). But a lot of people confuse the entire movement with the Republican co-opt and the Beck/Fox followers, so that's not unusual.
That said - I find it hard to believe that Rauf came up with this idea not realizing how provocative it was going to be. He is a smart guy, and had to have decided to provoke this reaction intentionally. What his ultimate purposes are, I don't know, but it was still a dick thing to do. Maybe he really wants to bring Islam into the American Melting Pot, and bring Muslims into the 21st century where we tolerate homosexuals and independent women, rather than executing them. That would be great.
But with television shows blotting out and editing their content due to threats, I can also understand people that fear the demand for "tolerance" will lead to a demand for them to change their own lifestyle to accommodate ... intolerance.
The point is that everyone needs to give a little and reach an understanding as to where we are heading. We CANNOT lose sight of our important heritage providing everyone the right to practice their religion. And those practicing their religion within our borders need to realize that their religion is not going to be allowed to influence our laws or our behavior or our free speech rights.
zukussAug 25, 2010
@LosAlamosLabs
"And to hell with the freedom of speech for anyone who finds a mosque at ground zero offensive."
So... to hell with the freedom of speech for anyone who finds the people who find the mosque offensive to be offensive?
This is all protected under freedom of speech. People are absolutely allowed to have their hatred, their bigotry, and their misinformed views. Others are absolutely allowed to call them out on it.
overridemymindAug 25, 2010
"You're moving the Middle East to NYC, and laying the seeds for Middle Eastern theocracy to take root there. "
How so? Countries in the Middle East are that way not because of the religion itself - but because of religious EXTREMISM. Christianity has its own extremists - look at Westboro Baptist Church. Also, believe it or not, there are already Mosques all over the US, and there have been for years. The only issue I had with the placement of this mosque was the intent behind it - if it was being done as a statement or politically-motivated thing, I would be opposed to it (as I hate when people use religion as a political thing) - but, upon further research, when I found the Islamic community in NYC needed a new mosque and there was no other motive behind the mosque's construction, I was for it. I mean, all these people protesting are driving me nuts. I read about a sign that said something about how this mosque was "another attack on freedom." -- Really? I mean... seriously? Building what I want on MY land is an attack on freedom because it's something YOU disagree with?
I digress.
Islam has been in this country for DECADES. It's nothing new. (Ever hear of Muhammed Ali? Yeah, he was Muslim.) No Sharia law has taken over. There's not bands of Taliban operatives roaming the streets. What are you afraid of? Why does this piss you off so much?
Here, let me show you this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam#Law
Also, "terrorism" and "holy war" isn't relegated to JUST Islam. Look at the Crusades, the Inquisition, etc. Look at home-grown serial killers and terrorists - 99% of them are either Christian (Jim Jones was a Christian who warped the religion, much like the Taliban and al-Queda has warped theirs) or come from Christian upbringing. Sooooo.... this idea that Islam itself is the sole motivator behind the 9/11 attacks is ridiculous, and the idea that planting a new mosque in NYC is going to release ultramega Muslims that will eat your babies, take over the government, and institute Sharia law is downright retarded..
tl;dr: Islam != terrorism. f**king read it.
locastusAug 25, 2010
"Look at the Crusades, the Inquisition..."
Yawn.
Another idiot whose best example of christian intolerance is a thousand years old.
overridemymindAug 25, 2010
Yawn. Yet another idiot who can't read the entire post and/or think critically enough to see the point of the statement.
First off, I ALSO stated that, if you read into most serial-killers, their upbringings were strict Christian upbringings. Home-grown terrorists? Same thing. Hell, the WBC is a prime example.
Let me help you out - the point was "Religious EXTREMISM causes bad s**t to happen, regardless of the religion." -- not "ZOMG CHRISTIANITY IS BAD TOO!" -- All religions, and the non-religious too, for that matter, have their dark sides. So, when you get right down to it, it's not necessarily religion that causes people to do f**ked up s**t, it's the PEOPLE that cause the PEOPLE to do f**ked up s**t. Religion is just sometimes how they justify it to themselves, and others.
It can also become a problem when you don't have much BUT religion, and you can't read whatever holy text you follow, and so have to rely on someone else to read it to you -- which, SURPRISE -- is the case in a lot of middle-eastern places. Religion CAN be warped to suit someone else's twisted agenda.... say... that's alot like what happened during the CRUSADES and the INQUISITION! (Hmmm... maybe THAT'S why I mentioned those two specifically)
So, again, the point is not "Religion is bad" - it's "Religion is a very powerful thing. When any religion is twisted to serve another motive, it can lead to religious extremism. Religious extremism can, and often does, cause death, destruction, and mayhem."
locastusAug 25, 2010
overridemymind,
Okay, a thousand apologies, I didnt actually read your first post.
But I would counter with this: It's only in the last thirty to forty years that Christianity has characterised itself solely as a 'loving religion'. That's an important point to remember.
No one twisted the words of the Bible during the Crusades and the Inquisition to suit their own agenda. It's all there in the Bible, it's just that we choose to read different verses these days.
So yeah, religion is pretty f**ked, but it's no different for atheism. The Bible, Torah or Koran would just be replaced by some secular text like the Communist Manifesto. Remember those old photos of the Soviet and Chinese Red Armies marching along with their little red book?
There's a common assumption, particularly among liberals, that people must be manipulated or have words twisted before they'll attack another tribe/nation/race. That's bulls**t. It's human nature to attack anything that poses a threat to the group, and people will usually just sieze hold of any reason to do so.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
zeitgeist6149Aug 25, 2010
I'm not quite sure how this ISN'T a distraction. It's not a f**king mosque, it's a cultural center that will have a swimming pool. It's really just that simple.
Guys...our economy is gonna crash in the next month. The Fed just liquidized $1.34 Billion to keep the economy afloat, playing the same game that got us into this mess. We should be talking about that.
originalmadmattAug 25, 2010
...yeah but only two people? two diggers none the less...
atarioAug 25, 2010
Can't do that. Gotta keep up the hate-fest so the knuckle-draggers will get out and vote for regression come November.
locastusAug 25, 2010
Newsflash: A mosque IS a cultural centre.
njdoo7Aug 25, 2010
Newsflash: Not all cultural centers are mosques.
overridemymindAug 25, 2010
Yes, Locastus, technically, you're right. Any church of any sort is a cultural center. However, what Zeitgeist means is that it's a cultural center WITH a mosque. (I.E. There's other s**t in there, too.)
locastusAug 25, 2010
Is it going to be open to non-muslims?
If not, then the whole building is technically a mosque regardless of whether or not there's a swimming pool.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
omarlassanAug 25, 2010
its a inter-faith bridge maker thingy, bound to be open for non-muslims
omarlassanAug 25, 2010
its a inter-faith bridge maker thingy, bound to be open for non-muslims
omarlassanAug 25, 2010
its a inter-faith bridge maker thingy, bound to be open for non-muslims
redcolumbineAug 23, 2010
I don't entirely agree with the people who think that the manufactured antipathy toward Muslims is just a disguise for racism. I think it's more dangerous, because it can be used either way. It can certainly be a modern-day not-yet-acknowledged "N-word," but it can also be used as full-on religious persecution, so it doesn't miss a single knuckledragger in its recruiting hysteria.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
You should do some world traveling. I do a lot of it, and one thing is common in every country I go to (currently in South Korea). The common thread is Muslims forcing their ways on to other cultures under the guise of "tolerance".
If you dare oppose them, you're labeled a racist and a bigot. Meanwhile people start seeing morality police and enforcement of Sharia law and then it's too late to say anything.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
dalhectarAug 23, 2010
It's not a minor issue when anti-Muslim sentiment is being expressed about other Mosques and community centers across the US. This isn't localized to one location.
http://digg.com/politics/Nowhere_near_Ground_Zero_but_no_more_welcome
fuhgetabotitAug 25, 2010
The right trash voodoo 'c'hristians are up in arms again....
And they make me sink every time they open their ignorant mouths.
I am sick and tired of their crap, I think its time the monstrously church stupid extraordinarily vapid, foxroted brained loudmouths got their culture war back in their faces.
Remove the tax exemption of these hell holes of religious ignorance and for profit frauds who want to play in politics, intolerance and hate.
Fuhg the right, fugh the religious right even more. Stupid ignorant useless assh**es all.
Yo assh**es deserve no more protection then you give. Bulldoze a right trash voodoo 'c'hristian retard academy near you soon ;)
Start with the one that educated this right trash voodoo 'c'hristian political whore and for profit media turd...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN7hJDS26rI
curunirAug 25, 2010
Even more disheartening than your hate filled, offensive and intolerant rant are the 4 diggs you got for it.
fuhgetabotitAug 25, 2010
ahh so you prefer church stupid right trash loudmouthed voodoo 'c'hristian assh**es and liars being led by frauds and ideologically insane political/religious retards spewing this kind of rancid foxcrap over reasoning decent people and how they act then...
Or do you think they should just be ignored?
Or are you one of them?
Or is it you can't tell the difference because your head is so far up the rear end of a fox you can't smell the right wing ignorance for what it is any more?
The political right is an open sewer of ignorance built on lies and peopled by the most ignorant, intolerant and vulgar mobs I have ever seen.
I for one will not tolerate it quietly any longer, I have seen enough for several lifetimes, and to me its a vile mean ugly mob of the most god awful stupid I am likely to ever see.
Have I come to hate it? You betcha.
That you cant' see it, that you defend it, that you support it, that's both your choice to make and, imho, what's wrong with this country. To damn many intellectually lazy social conservative church stupid teabagging jackasses who don't care what kind of bigots they stand with as long as they get to go on with whatever political/religious retardation they prefer is tolerated and celebrated.
Thats what happens when politics depends on lies, like Obama is a socialist or not an American, or a Muslim, or the anti-Christ, or we are a right trash 'c'hristian nation, so on and so on and so on... You get mobs of retards who respond to any damn lie they spew as political power, just like the GNOP, the 'c'hristian right and the teabagging foxcrap is built on.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-03-22/scary-new-gop-poll
You want disheartening, the political right in America, circa 2010, thats more then disheartening, its sickening, and trying to play nice with it isn't going to make it take its revolting ignorance and go away.
zeitgeist6149Aug 25, 2010
Nobody is saying racism is a minority issue. It's just that this issue, at this particular time, and the amount of coverage has gotten is a COMPLETE and UTTER distraction. Make sure to look this comment up when the DOW has dropped 3000 pts in a month and tell me how important the proposed cultural center possibly being built two blocks away from the WTC (that hasn't finished gaining all of its funding yet) is to you.
clvngodessAug 23, 2010
This whole xenophobic reaction to a community center is a national disgrace, an embarrassment at best. It defines exactly how ignorant we Citizens of the U.S. truly are. Islam has been on this continent since the days of Thomas Jefferson.
It's historic fact.
bohicatwentytwoAug 23, 2010
Islam has been at war with the US since the days of Thomas Jefferson.
Its a historic fact.
clvngodessAug 23, 2010
That's bulls**t.
dalhectarAug 23, 2010
Funny, becuase we fought more wars against Christian nations than Muslim.
-Just saying.
bohicatwentytwoAug 23, 2010
Don't be fooled by their English name, the Barbary pirates weren't theives and bandits. As you might know, Islam has rather harsh punishments for theivery. Instead. they were considered to be Ghazi or raiders who were allowed under the Koran to plunder those who did not follow Islam.
In 1785 Thomas Jefferson met with the Barbary ambassador in London. When Jefferson asked why they made concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury", the ambassador replied, "It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every muslim who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise."
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
captobliviousAug 24, 2010
you people not only drank the cool-aid but swallowed the entire f**king bucket, lid and all.
Here, have some history Ignorantman.
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html
Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
Ya, that sounds like war doesn't you idiots. Conveniently it ALSO proves that we were not founded as a "Christian nation".
absurdistAug 25, 2010
We are at war with Oceania. We have always been at war with Oceania.
ronpauliskingAug 25, 2010
Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
skribbleAug 25, 2010
Clearly you need to revisit your US History... maybe start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli
texmexrexAug 25, 2010
What does the length of time Islam has been here have to do with anything? Diphtheria, and Shoes have been here longer, but again, so what?
jkillslAug 25, 2010
The anti-Muslim people often claim that Islam is "un-American" or that Christianity is somehow "more American" than any other religion.
texmexrexAug 25, 2010
Your reply seems unrelated to my post.
The "anti-Muslim people" stereotype others and have negative opinions based on a small number of experiences about a group of people they know little about. Try not to do the same thing.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
oriondrAug 25, 2010
To be fair to the xenophobic racists protesting the mosque... Islam is an especially despicable religion, and worthy of protestation.
What's truly unfortunate is that these people are doing the right thing for the wrongest of reasons. They should be protesting the construction of any religious space-wasting building.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
zzekeAug 25, 2010
Wow, tolerant much?
oriondrAug 25, 2010
Tolerant? Of forcing women to cover their entire bodies? Of outlawing homosexuality? Of stoning for adultery? Of forcing young girls to marry men three times their age? Of murdering people for apostasy?
I'm sorry, but the whole terrorism thing is just ONE point on which to find Islam distasteful. If you support Islam, then you support all their bigoted and backwards dogma.
Now, am I tolerant of Muslims? Yes, many of them are merely victims of their own religion and society. Do I think they have a right to build mosques on private property? Yes, of course they have that right, just like these people have the right to protest outside of it.
donotclickjimAug 25, 2010
Please don't lump all Americans into one broad "we hate Muslims" category. It's like saying all Iranians hate Americans. Their leaders might but many Iranians know their government is corrupt (much like our own). The groups protesting these mosques are similar to the Islamic radicals that you see on videos burning American flags. That's not a reflection of all Muslims and nor are these anti-muslim groups a reflection of all Americans.
kleon777Aug 25, 2010
"Islam has been on this continent since the days of Thomas Jefferson. "
Appeal to tradition is a logical fallacy.
lingnoiAug 25, 2010
"It defines exactly how ignorant we Citizens of the U.S."
You mean Christians of the U.S. or do you believe muslims in the U.S. aren't citizens?
themadrammerAug 23, 2010
This is how I imagine the Japanese were treated during WWII. What a disgusting display of racism and hatred. Yes, America is going down very hard.
timoumdAug 25, 2010
And look how things turned out for us! Maybe that's why were imprisoning them w/o trial.
texmexrexAug 25, 2010
Why imagine something like that when it is well documented? Even taught in our schools.
starlessknightAug 25, 2010
"Even taught in our schools."
Highly questionable. Maybe given a footnote. At best they'll say there were interment camps, but little else. Wouldn't want to confuse young students (Middle or High School) with a complex issue like America had concentration camps too, only we didn't toss people into furnaces or otherwise seek to kill them. Just like today, torture's okay because we're one notch morally superior to our enemy; as long as we maintain that one, extra notch we're at the Good Guys and they are the Bad Guys.
Focus on the West Coast was probably out of fear they could help establish a beach head if Japanese forces made it through our lines to American soil.
PS: Want to place wagers on how many schools mention Japanese attacks on American soil actually happened using balloons? Bet students only learn that by visiting Ripley's Believe It or Not.
texmexrexAug 25, 2010
My high school taught the internment camps with no problem, but they implied Japan used airplanes to attack pearl harbor. Guam and other U.S. Territoies and bases were attacked by Japanease Army troops and Marines (They said) Propaganda I guess.
texmexrexAug 25, 2010
Great article on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
You seem to forget the way the Japanese treated it's POW's and other conquered peoples It is not a good comparison to use in this debate
dipsomaniacAug 25, 2010
That's just another version of the "Oh, they were worse, so it's okay if we were only bad" argument.
studiopenguinAug 25, 2010
Really? Japanese-Americans treated American POWs badly? Because that's obviously what themadrammer was referring to.
sugarazorAug 25, 2010
A more accurate comparison to the Japanese during WW2 would be the current Republican-proposed treatment of Mexicans.
netantAug 25, 2010
Enforcing immigration laws is not mistreating Mexicans.
sugarazorAug 25, 2010
It is when Republicans propose putting them in internment camps.
originalmadmattAug 25, 2010
republicans would try to do it to... and ill be there too when they get their ass kicked.. to put it on youtube xD
tsuruchibrianAug 25, 2010
@WhoBob
You seem to forget how nice old ladies treat their cats.
It was within the realm of possibility to treat people of Japanese descent with dignity despite what the people in the Japanese military were doing.
IF we cooked German Americans in ovens in WW2, would "Well you should have seen what the Nazis did" be a good excuse? Or would that just be yet another reprehensible atrocity?
atarioAug 25, 2010
Funny you should bring up the Germans in WW2. Our own Supreme Allied Commander and General of the Army at the height of WW2 was some guy of German heritage, even had a very German name. "Eisenhower", I believe it was...
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
Wow........I see the sniveling Libertarians are out in force on this one.
Wheres all the Patriots when ya need them.
/s
kimbomittAug 25, 2010
"Yes, America is going down very hard. "
This is, as someone said, not nearly as bad as what happened with Japanese Americans during WWII. Also not as bad as segregation. All of which is my way of saying, America has never had a great track record with these types of things, neither has anybody else in the world, and things are getting better, not worse, over the long run (even if it's worse now than it was 10 years ago). Seems to me that people are always saying that we're doomed, but so far it hasn't happened, so I'm gonna guess that it's not gonna happen now.
lanceivarAug 23, 2010
It is embarrassing, indeed. I can only imagine what people will think when they look back on this in 20 years, if they don't decide to completely ignore it.
Like the people who fought to retain segregation, or against the civil rights movement. How Un-American can a person be while claiming to be Patriotic? The self-deception is mind boggling.
freedomjoeAug 23, 2010
They are endangering the safety of our troops by doing this and endangering this country. That's a fact. I find it particularly egregious since they started these wars and are supposedly committed to "winning".
SHAME ON YOU PEOPLE!
zzekeAug 24, 2010
This "mosque" does not endanger anyone at all. Using this issue to divide Americans and foment racial and religious hatred is what's dangerous.
akchrsAug 25, 2010
Rabble rabble outrage feign!! I like how the submitter is Canadian, that always cracks me up.
kevenmAug 25, 2010
Your ignorant ass might be surprised to find out that Canada is in Afghanistan with the rest of your soldiers.
or rather, do you think that we Canadians aren't capable of anything more than making igloos?
overridemymindAug 25, 2010
"Your ignorant ass might be surprised to find out that Canada is in Afghanistan with the rest of your soldiers."
And those Canadian Soldiers are damn fine people too. I'd fight by their side any day of the week.
regeyaAug 25, 2010
A community center in New York is putting troops in Afghanistan in danger?
What stroke of genius. Let's take a religion known for its religious extremists, and drive it underground! BRILLIANT!
zzekeAug 25, 2010
What religion doesn't have extremists?
soc7Aug 23, 2010
My take: Don't be black and wear the wrong hat around racist xenophobes. And remember all this when the next house of worship is in the cross hairs.
America, I am not feeling very proud of you lately.
kasha34Aug 25, 2010
Why? Nothing happened. I watched the whole clip.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
Of course not Kasha, you were distracted by the chemtrails used by Gee-Hoddy lizardmen Obama Terrorbabies who have driven you into a fever-dream!
Here are some Kasha greatest hits: http://digg.com/business_finance/Home_Sales_Plunge_27_pct_To_Lowest_in_15_Years?t=34480469#c34481477
netantAug 25, 2010
I say PERSECUTE the Roman Catholics! They aren't Protestant, their church is run by a foreigner, and I'm sick of that Rudy Guiliani pretending to support Constitutional values!
If for some reason you can't bring yourself to discriminate against Catholics, then maybe the Mormons! They're no fun and kinda creepy.
But don't mess with the Scientologists. They're not really a religion, and it would give them too much unwarranted attention. Besides, I like my stupid Hollywood movies and TV shows....
d4nie1Aug 23, 2010
The sad thing is I'm pretty sure the New York muslims are going to give in and sell the Park51 site. Even though the law is on their side and they would certainly win in court, the amount of fearmongering, spin doctoring and bigotry that has infested the mainstream public over this issue is going to force them out from sheer public pressure. It's a sad day for tolerance and unity in America. We are divided and the majority is going to bully the minority into submission. Thanks Newt!
captobliviousAug 24, 2010
All they really have to do is wait till after November, then the issue wont get a single second of "news" time.
redcolumbineAug 25, 2010
New Yorkers themselves, by and large, aren't the ones complaining. There's little or no local "public pressure."
d4nie1Aug 25, 2010
This has been turned into a national issue by the mosque protesters. They have to take into consideration the backlash muslims will suffer throughout the country, not just locally. We'll see. Maybe they will stand up to the pressure.
redcolumbineAug 25, 2010
I suspect that the anti-Muslim sentiment is widespread, but spread thin. They can't bus all the Fox News fans to all of the proposed sites - well, maybe they can with so many people out of a job, but I still think it'll turn out to be a few rabid players running around on way too much astroturf.
nmrgentlemanAug 23, 2010
More "moderate" talk from the mosque imam: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/
"We tend to forget, in the West, that the United States has more Muslim blood on its hands than al Qaida has on its hands of innocent non Muslims."
Note the chilling qualifier of "innocent" non Muslims. (And the fact that it doesn't get attached to "Muslim.") More quotes at the site.
Open your eyes, people. Don't defend these guys just because the right is attacking them. (And don't even try to convince me there is any other reason for your defense. Their are good arguments for allowing the mosque, centered around rights to private property and religious expression. And the Left attacks both rights all the time. Their new-found love for them is curious and quite specific.)Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
georgeclymerAug 23, 2010
You're going to quote the person that started this hate-fest? If he isn't a "moderate" Imam, then why was George Bush(and those in his administration) hanging out with terrorists between 2001 and 2007?:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/17/ground-zero-imam-helped-f_n_685071.html
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/08/ground_zero_mosque_imam_bush_partner_for_peace.php
nmrgentlemanAug 23, 2010
I didn't say he was a terrorist. But I definitely don't think he is a moderate either - again, unless "moderate" means you don't actually go blow people up. But that's a pretty shallow definition of moderate.
And if you're concerned about sources - as apparently you are, since you didn't like my citing of Atlas Shrugs - then you shouldn't cite TPM. I've been fortunate enough to actually be in attendance for some events they have reported on, and the articles I read afterwards convinced me that they are nothing but professional liars. They took quotes out of context and sensationalized to give an impression almost totally contrary to what actually occurred, what I myself witnessed. So they wrote a nice article about Rauf with some nice quotations by him - I wonder how much they knowingly left out. I don't trust them a bit. They deceive for a living.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
captobliviousAug 24, 2010
NMRgentleman,
He is more moderate then the !right wing right here in the US, The !right thinks that they can change the Constitution and the core beliefs of the country because they don't like HOW someone worships the exact same God they do.
fuse13Aug 25, 2010
wait a darn second! this guy peacefully holds opinions you disagree with? this is unamerican!
humperdinckAug 25, 2010
@NMRgentleman, that was an out-of-context quote from a larger speech by Rauf. The Atlas Shrugs site is trying to Sherrod him:
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/08/24/state_department_compares_park_51_imam_to_shirley_sherrod
"P.J. Crowley, the assistant secretary of state for public affairs, told reporters Tuesday that they shouldn't be quick to take those remarks out of context.
"I would just caution any of you that choose to write on this, that once again you have a case where a blogger has pulled out one passage from a very lengthy speech. If you read the entire speech, you will discover exactly why we think he is rightly participating in this national speaking tour.""
More quotes and actual audio of the speech at the link I posted.
13point1Aug 25, 2010
Honesty is far too "liberal" a notion for conservatives to use.
captobliviousAug 25, 2010
I thought we were going to call that britebarting someone...
quaxonAug 25, 2010
Whats the problem with that quote? It's absolutely true, are you one of those anti-facts conservatives? I bet you don't believe in evolution either and think humans chilled out with dinosaurs 5000 years ago.
kasha34Aug 25, 2010
What's true? If any children died in Iraq it was Saddam's fault. He had plenty of money to build more palaces for himself. Plus, we now know that he was scamming the UN, by bribing top UN officials. And getting his hands on plenty of money. Some say it was the biggest theft in all of human history.
So the accusation that half a million Iraqi children died because of us is a LIE. And the Imam says it. And you still buy it.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
ZOMG OBBBAMMA CHEMTRAILZ LIZARDMEN!!!
Seriously Kasha, I think it is nap-time for some fussy little guy! Why don't you lay down for awhile.
http://digg.com/business_finance/Home_Sales_Plunge_27_pct_To_Lowest_in_15_Years?t=34480469#c34481477
stillhateyouAug 25, 2010
That's absurd, the man is in fact a moderate. However, he comes to the table with a different point of view. Even Fox News had the decency to quote more of that speech than you did. And here are some particularly important parts:
"How do you tell people whose homes have been destroyed, whose lives have been destroyed, that this does not justify your actions of terrorism. It's hard. Yes, it is true that it does not justify the acts of bombing innocent civilians, that does not solve the problem, but after 50 years of, in many cases, oppression, of US support of authoritarian regimes that have violated human rights in the most heinous of ways, how else do people get attention?
So I'm not - I'm just providing you with the arguments that are happening intra Islamically by those who feel the emotion of pain."
Terrorism isn't okay... how much more moderate do you want him to be? Do you want him to claim that the US is a shining beacon of freedom that has never committed wrong?
chilidogsAug 25, 2010
"But the Left generally has little regard for these rights"
You are a f**king retard.
Closed AccountAug 24, 2010
OK, let's keep score here.
'Baggers try to suggest they're under the leadership of Ron Paul.
I recognize that the tea party was an idea inspired by Ron Paul but that group hasn't been under Paul's leadership for a long time.
It's an extension of Sarah Palin, Birthers, uneducated dolts, Glenn Beckians and other assorted fools.
PERIOD. It's a group with no head but a lot of arms.
So Ron Paul spoke out against the ignorance and hatred today. And if the 'baggers were really listening to Paul, then maybe they'd see the light and START to respect our constitution. After all, isn't that what they claim to support?
So the 'baggers can all back the f**k up, go home and shut their ignorant holes. This is a matter that falls under guidelines already set in the constitution. Period.
This isn't about 'well, it's OK to build it there but is it WISE?'
It's not up to your or I to determine if it's 'wise' to build it there. They have a f**king right to build it, PERIOD.
I can't say this continued display from the uneducated, hateful, ignorant right is unexpected but it's getting pretty f**king old.
They'll use ANYTHING as an excuse to publicly display their hatred, intolerance and ignorance. This is just another f**king excuse.
magamiakoAug 25, 2010
No, it's still the same people that followed Ron Paul. It's always been the same group of people.
duffguyAug 25, 2010
um no.
duffguyAug 25, 2010
Paul supporters are very anti-war, tolerant to Islam, and think its highly immoral to drop bombs on innocent people in the middle east.
Can't say the same thing about tea party Palin supporters who actually voted for Mcain or somebody else in the primary and not Ron Paul so um again no, what you said is completely untrue.
magus_melchiorAug 25, 2010
"No, it's still the same people that followed Ron Paul. It's always been the same group of people."
That's a variation of the "No true Scotsman" fallacy. Open your eyes-- the ones controlling the national Tea Party moniker are Fox News, Sarah Palin, and Dick Armey. The Republican establishment-- what's left of it, anyway-- has hijacked your movement.
Either call yourselves the Campaign for Liberty (which was your original name before you started this Tea Party bulls**t at the behest of Rick Santelli), or join the GOP neocons.
kevenmAug 25, 2010
Your opinion does not fit a black and white view of the world, therefore you are wrong.
ronpauliskingAug 25, 2010
the Tea Party has been completely taken over by the Neo-conservatives and other racist organizations. no real libertarian would associate themselves with the Tea Party at this point
emmeronAug 25, 2010
algaeturd,
Try to stick to topics you understand and do less smearing of what you do not. You are right about the issue of the tea party movement -- it started with people who supported Paul, but it has become a cancerous growth off the liberty-loving portions of the population and is now quite ugly, having ZERO resemblance to libertarianism (something Paul only has most of his thoughts in line with, I might add).
100% of the libertarians out there who know what the f**k they are talking about agree with your statement about the rights of all people. All of them. Tea party is NOT libertarian. Please try to remember this before the next rant.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
f**kin' A, man.
akhomesteadAug 24, 2010
Well it is a distraction, filled with irony.
So the people that we've decided are worth fighting a 10 year deadly war for along with spending trillions to bring them "freedom" are the same group of people that can't enjoy the freedoms we're supposed to be killing for?
Not to mention the reason they don't care for us in the first place is because we build military bases in what they perceived as holy land.
kasha34Aug 25, 2010
"we build military bases in what they perceived as holy land. "
For the millionth time.... We. Were. Invited.
Actually the word should be "begged". The Saudis were terrified knowing that Saddam would invade them next. And begged us to protect them.
darwininmotionAug 25, 2010
"are the same group of people that can't enjoy the freedoms we're supposed to be killing for?"
Hit the nail on the head there!
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
I think the ChemTrailz have finally got to you Kasha! LOL! Here is some of the other fun things Kasha has had to say:
http://digg.com/business_finance/Home_Sales_Plunge_27_pct_To_Lowest_in_15_Years?t=34480469#c34481477
scamper22Aug 25, 2010
And Americans are rightly upset when Muslims build mosques on the holy sites of Americans... wall street :P
/s
atarioAug 25, 2010
It started as a distraction, but it is quickly running out of control. Thanks a lot, cynical Republican rabble-whippers.
kasha34Aug 25, 2010
Yes, it's a distraction from catastrophic ObamaCare. Catastrophic "stimulus". Catastrophic amnesty.
Thanks for reminding us.
fungowskiAug 25, 2010
I wish one of you industrious nerds would figure out if that confound conservative digging block is what keeps getting mosque story after mosque story on the front page.
dipsomaniacAug 25, 2010
Would they really want the stories there? Every single one makes them look like the idiots they are.
fungowskiAug 25, 2010
yeah but for the retarded voting public, all they need to see is the word mosque over and over again to keep it fresh in their heads
particleman420Aug 25, 2010
its nice that they decided to lose their s**t completely just before the elections.
and all this time obstructing and standing for nothing because it may hurt their chances for election and they go and f**k it up at the last minute with something like this.
thanks cantservatives! maybe you arent that bad after all!
7m7ufAug 25, 2010
My 2Ā¢ on the matter -- we live in a place that has freedom of religion, if you dislike it i'm all for making the "Reverse Mayflower"ā¢ to ship you back to your state-sponsored religions. If we're bitching about location, then we shouldn't have Catholic Churches near playgrounds, schools or chuck-e-cheeses and shouldn't have any Christian Churches near abortion clinics. In OKC at the federal building that a self-proclaimed Christian blew up there are TWO churches across the street -- not even 2 blocks away.
kevenmAug 25, 2010
In before the teabaggers start calling you names.
crickidAug 25, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
dzhuo04Aug 25, 2010
Yea it just seems odd that the man that taught tolerance and love for neighbors and enemies has more followers less tolerant than those that don't believe he is the son of god. The irony is shocking, funny and sad. Oh well, it's sad that atheists are more akin to the messiah of Christians than Christians themselves.
halyardAug 25, 2010
It's not about freedom of religion. There are other Muslim centers and schools in the area. Nobody wants to drive the Muslims from Manhattan. It's about building the largest, grandest, Islamic center in North America over a building damaged by debris from the largest, grandest mass murder in North America perpetrated in the name of Islam. The building will be a $100 million recruitment poster for terrorists and will do more to support terrorism than giving them the cash directly would have. Yes, we have a First Amendment that we sometimes care about, and they could build a monument to the 15 hijackers if they wanted; but if there were anything noble about its construction, they would build the center somewhere else. And if Obama had any class, he would confront the issues directly rather than pretending it is about religious freedom.
7m7ufAug 26, 2010
I'll repeat: If we're bitching about location, then we shouldn't have Catholic Churches near playgrounds, schools or chuck-e-cheeses and shouldn't have any Christian Churches near abortion clinics. In OKC at the federal building that a self-proclaimed Christian blew up there are TWO churches across the street -- not even 2 blocks away.
And one other thing: We should lead by example. Instead of getting all our panties in a knot about it, we should be supportive. Let them know they're welcome, because ostracizing people, and being bigots about it, changes their perspective of us. We should be fostering peace with everyone instead of pushing them away; blaming the gander and not the goose isn't the correct way of going about it.
I believe the Mosque should be closer to ground zero -- it's not even a Mosque, it's a Cultural Center -- a place where people can learn about Islam, and it so happens to have a prayer room. There is no better place for it then ground zero, because more apt then not it's going to teach that Islam is non-violent and those hijackers were not following the will of Allah. It's like how the bible is justified in blowing up abortion clinics. I know people are going to say that the Koran promotes violence, but so does the Bible. There is all sorts of laws in the bible about stoning people for this and that. But what the difference is that people think Muslims are new-age cave men because their women have to wear head coverings -- and i'm not the biggest fan of that, but no one is forcing them to any more then a woman in love with the man that is beating her is forced to stay with their 'beloved' (not that they're the same thing or anything). That's why there needs to be a cultural center, and the Islam community needs one at ground zero; to show that they're part of america and not the enemy, that they are there in this with us; we need to be there for them, to show them that in america we are truly free and generous people.
regeyaAug 25, 2010
If we had let my Puritan ancestors take over, that whole "keep Christ out of Christmas" annual debate wouldn't be a problem.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
Under Islamic rule, Cordoba was a diverse bastion of peace and brotherhood amongst all religions while science, history and the arts flourished...Americans have much to learn about this idyllic period in world history.
kasha34Aug 25, 2010
No it wasn't. That's just rewriting history.
bawbzillaAug 25, 2010
Just because you say it won't make it true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Mosque_of_C%C3%B3rdoba
"After the Islamic conquest of the Visigothic kingdom the Emir Abd ar-Rahman I bought the church."
"It served as a central hall for teaching and to manage law and order within Al-Andalus during the rule of Abd-Al-Rahman"
"Today the entire building is used to house the Cathedral of the diocese of CĆ³rdoba in Spain."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliphate_of_C%C3%B3rdoba
"This period was characterized by remarkable success in trade and culture; many of the masterpieces of Islamic Iberia were constructed in this period, including the famous Great Mosque of CĆ³rdoba."
"This period of prosperity is marked by growing diplomatic relations with North African tribes, Christian kings from the north, with France and Germany, and Constantinople."
"Appreciable advances in science, history, geography, philosophy and grammar occurred during the Caliphate.[13] Al-Andalus became susceptible to eastern cultural influences as well. Ziryab is credited on bringing hair and clothing styles to the Iberian peninsula (as well as toothpaste and deodorant)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%B3rdoba,_Spain
"the old town contains many impressive architectural reminders of when Qurį¹uba (ŁŲ±Ų·ŲØŲ©), the thriving capital of the Caliphate of CĆ³rdoba, governed "
"under caliph Al-Hakam II CĆ³rdoba received what was then the largest library in the world, housing from 400,000 to 1,000,000 volumes."
http://www.cordoba24.info/english/html/geschichte.html
"When Moors conquered the city in 711 after their victory over the Visigoths, a new era began. Cordoba became one of the most remarkable cities in the world. "
"Cordoba became the first city with a central water supply, paved streets and street lighting. Numerous public bath houses were erected."
"
In the 10th century, Cordoba reached its very peak. in 929, ruler Abd al-Rahman III of the Umayyad dynasty declared Cordoba totally independent and founded the Caliphate of Cordoba. The economic and cultural development of the city picked up speed. Cordoba became the worldās largest city with about one million residents. It embodied a sophisticated culture and the most advanced bureaucracy in Europe. Cordoba had more than 1,000 mosques and about 600 public bath houses. As a result of this massive upturn, the magnificent and splendid palace city of Medina Azahara was built near Cordoba."
"Al-Hakam II, a sponsor of art, culture and science, enlarged the Mezquita, built schools and a library with 500,000 volumes. "
look at how stupid you are.
Now, please quote me anything that will show that Cordoba was anything other than pretty damn awesome.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
Don't be too surprised, Bawb, Kasha makes s**t up all of the time. He is a bigoted lunatic.
http://digg.com/business_finance/Home_Sales_Plunge_27_pct_To_Lowest_in_15_Years?t=34480469#c34481477
bawbzillaAug 25, 2010
Oh yeah, I'm not surprised at all ;) I actually really like Kasha. I just love finding where kasha posted because it's like christmas, I can drop a few links that prove them wrong then go along my merry little way. So good.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
You are a better man than me, Bawb, I ended up wasting all sort of time trying to talk to that racist idiot. The good thing is he left us with about 10 pages of crazy to remind him of when he pretends to be reasonable.
kasha34Aug 25, 2010
@Bawbzilla Here you go:
"Iberia (Spain) was conquered in 710-716 AD by Arab tribes originating from northern, central and southern Arabia. Massive Berber and Arab immigration, and the colonization of the Iberian peninsula, followed the conquest. Most churches were converted into mosques. Although the conquest had been planned and conducted jointly with a strong faction of royal Iberian Christian dissidents, including a bishop, it proceeded as a classical jihad with massive pillages, enslavement, deportations and killings. "
"Toledo, which had first submitted to the Arabs in 711 or 712, revolted in 713. The town was punished by pillage and all the notables had their throats cut. In 730, the Cerdagne (in Septimania, near Barcelona) was ravaged and a bishop burned alive. In the regions under stable Islamic control, Jews and Christians were tolerated as dhimmis - like elsewhere in other Islamic lands - and could not build new churches or synagogues nor restore the old ones. Segregated in special quarters, they had to wear discriminatory clothing. Subjected to heavy taxes, the Christian peasantry formed a servile class attached to the Arab domains; many abandoned their land and fled to the towns. Harsh reprisals with mutilations and crucifixions* would sanction the Mozarab (Christian dhimmis) calls for help from the Christian kings. Moreover, if one dhimmi harmed a Muslim, the whole community would lose its status of protection, leaving it open to pillage, enslavement and arbitrary killing."
This is what the Cordoba house is named after.
"The humiliating status imposed on the dhimmis and the confiscation of their land provoked many revolts, punished by massacres, as in Toledo (761, 784-86, 797). After another Toledan revolt in 806, seven hundred inhabitants were executed. Insurrections erupted in Saragossa from 781 to 881, Cordova (805), Merida (805-813, 828 and the following year, and later in 868), and yet again in Toledo (811-819); the insurgents were crucified, as prescribed in Qur'an 5:33*. "
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2004/04/andalusian-myth-eurabian-reality-print.html
bawbzillaAug 25, 2010
mmmnope, that isn't a very strong case that it was so terrible as to still haunt the name today. Rome did some super f**ked up s**t, but there's a lot of holdovers today because of how advanced they were. Nobody ever yells at college kids for a roman toga party, for instance. Oh no, they burned a bishop? Who else did that... it's right on the tip of my tongue... oh yeah, f**king everyone in europe burned people alive. Guess we better start learning how to speak farsi, since all of Europe's culture is tainted! D:
You're going to have to do better than that to show A. how that is different from how we humans usually go around killing each other, and B. that the amazing things done in cordoba shouldn't be recognized because of the past of common conflict and, for the time period, expected bloodshed.
As well, Abd ar-Rahman I refashioned the church in Codorba into a mosque around 784, they bought it years before that. Your revolts that you say the mosque is named after mostly didn't happen until after that point, you cite revolts all the way up to 868 as having lead to this, when according to your own citation, there would have only been one or two before the mosque was repurposed. Again, not a very strong case you have there.
You lose :)
salbatrossAug 25, 2010
Unfortunately, kasha's right. Islamic Spain was, for part of its history, a relatively peaceful and tolerant place, kind to Jews and Christians. But that period was brief, and the other Peoples of the Book were always second-class citizens. But it was, truly, a relatively modern and egalitarian place to live...briefly. Until extremists, both Christian and Muslim, came in and ruined it.
/Spanish historian
malexAug 25, 2010
How brief do you mean by brief?
/Honestly curious
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
Hundreds of years! LOL!
Wonder why the people who slaughtered and tortured their opponents in the inquisition would have a different opinion?
salbatrossAug 25, 2010
Malex- you're talking largely the 10th and 11th centuries. With the collapse of the Caliphate, religious tolerance was piecemeal (and depending on which region you're talking about, was more prevalent in Christian than Muslim-controlled regions--see Alfonso X, por ejemplo), and with the coming of the conservative Almoravids and ultra-conservative Almohads, it was all but erased.
nowing- not really sure what point you're trying to make.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
Well, considering the area and what was happening elsewhere, hundreds of years of peace and prosperity sound pretty good to me...
salbatrossAug 25, 2010
You called it a "diverse bastion of peace and brotherhood amongst all religions and peoples" and "idyllic."
Disingenuous at best.
ironhideAug 25, 2010
J2T is a right-wing troll.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
It's true! He's a Republican operative, I've seen it with my own eyes!
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
Now, lil Johnny, I thought we agreed that if you didn't stop blathering at the big kids and typing with 2 hands we were going to have to take your little computer-game out of the basement where we could keep an eye on you!
Now, I thought we had a deal, slugger! We don't want to have you get spanked again in front of everyone, do we little guy?
(btw, here is where he gets slaughtered for spewing right wing nonsense. I wonder if he and Kasha the racist birther are the same guy?? http://digg.com/politics/Stewart_FOX_Failed_To_Mention_Co_Owner_Is_One_They_Accuse_O?t=34477337#c34482158
mistermysterAug 25, 2010
The mosque story is such a non-issue, all it's used as is a "patriotic" dick-measuring contest for Republicans and teabaggers.
tyrghastAug 25, 2010
I'd say it makes you a bigger (I suppose thats the adjective to use) patriot to call out those who would infringe basic, Constitutionally-granted rights.
There is nothing illegal about the community center plans, the only issue is the blind and blatant racism stemming from the conservatives.
chilidogsAug 25, 2010
I can't imagine that this doesn't hurt them.
quaxonAug 25, 2010
Anyone else notice that this whole manufactured 'controversy' that is taking up the lime-lite comes at the same time that the republicans voted no on additional funding for the health care of 9/11 first responders ???
Make a stupid controversy that really means nothing to get the people riled up while screwing over those who selflessly helped people so it doesnt make the news rounds. Why arent all the jingoists protesting against this? This country is too f**king stupid for its own good.
quaxonAug 25, 2010
Also you should go ask the Japanese how they felt about the US military base near where we dropped an atomic bomb.
atarioAug 25, 2010
THE GENTLEMAN WILL *SIT*!!
kleon777Aug 25, 2010
I find it annoying how liberals say this is about religious freedom. It's not. Nobody is telling them they can't practice their religion. It is, however, an issue of location. No matter what you think about the Mosque, you have to admit it's a boneheaded move building this so close to where Islamic extremists (are there any other kind?) committed that horrible act on 9/11. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
throwdiniAug 25, 2010
How many Muslims do you know? If the answer is zero, that is telling. If the answer is more than one, how many of them do you know that have attacked the US. Unless you live in the middle of nowhere, you know more Muslims who have not attacked this country than have ever attacked it. So be careful in drawing such broad strokes.
kleon777Aug 25, 2010
"How many Muslims do you know? If the answer is zero"
I know three Muslims from Pakistan and one from the UAE.
mistermysterAug 25, 2010
Jesus f**king Christ, it's just a community center were everyone of all beliefs in the neighborhood can visit.
So there's a mosque in it, big deal. There's also a mosque in the Pentagon. it's not like they are building a goddamn statue of Bin Laden or KSM in front of it.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
Well, your post is full of stupidity.
Religious freedom knows no arbitrary boundaries. They can build their building wherever they please. They had nothing to do with the actions of the extremists of 9/11 and shouldn't be arbitrarily punished for it.
There are extremists in every religion. Think about the abortion clinic bombers and doctor murderers. These people are extremists.
I know you're a f**king idiot but this is all logic that you should be able to grasp.
kleon777Aug 25, 2010
"Religious freedom knows no arbitrary boundaries."
Oh please. Liberals are all about putting boundaries on religious freedom. They take the Ten Commandments out of public buildings and tell us we can't pray in schools. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
travelsonicAug 25, 2010
". They take the Ten Commandments out of public buildings ..."
Public as in state buildings? WONDER f**kINGWHY, GENIUS?
mdmcgeeAug 25, 2010
@kleon
Removing your religion from schools so my children don't have to listen to the inane bantering of fools is not a religious freedom issue it's a "separation of church and state issue". Second, noone prevents you or your spawn from praying anywhere and anytime they please, but it isn't going to be a school led event.
Now, fear-mongering and attacking people of a religion different from yours is a religious freedom issue.
darwininmotionAug 25, 2010
"They take the Ten Commandments out of public buildings and tell us we can't pray in schools."
Yup, *public* schools should be secular. If you want your kids to pray in school, then enrol them in a religious school or take them to church/synagogue/mosque/whatever.
kleon777Aug 25, 2010
"Public as in state buildings? WONDER f**kINGWHY, GENIUS?"
Because liberals have tried to convince the nation that they don't belong there. They are trying to limit the expression of religion.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
kevenmAug 25, 2010
"Are there any other kind"????
Are you serious? I'm not one to make fun of retards, but honestly, are you retarded, or even just considered 'slow'? Have you ever owned a pair of lace-up shoes? Do your parents make you wear a helmet when you go out?
kleon777Aug 25, 2010
You have to resort to ad hominem attacks. What does that say about you?
malexAug 25, 2010
It says he has a short temper, and I'm inclined to agree with him.
Your little "are there any other kind" quip totally disqualifies you from commenting on the religious freedom of others. You are a chauvinist, pure and simple.
sugarazorAug 25, 2010
How far away from Ground Zero does it have to be before Muslims can practice their First Amendment rights? Why do Christian churches get to be there? Are you proposing a "5 blocks away, but equal" clause?
kleon777Aug 25, 2010
"How far away from Ground Zero does it have to be before Muslims can practice their First Amendment rights?"
Again with this "First Amendment" argument. This has NOTHING to do with the Constitution. Nobody is telling them they can't practice their religion. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
sugarazorAug 25, 2010
Uh, this has EVERYTHING to do with the Constitution. People are trying to get the government to stop the construction of a place of worship on private property. Imagine if a politician tried to pull this with ANY other religion, they'd be run out of town. Imagine some idiot saying, "oh no, you can't build a church there," Sarah Palin's tiny brain would explode.
travelsonicAug 25, 2010
"Again with this "First Amendment" argument. This has NOTHING to do with the Constitution. Nobody is telling them they can't practice their religion."
Please address the point, stop making strawmen and dodging the topic.
chilidogsAug 25, 2010
"This has NOTHING to do with the Constitution. Nobody is telling them they can't practice their religion."
You can't be this stupid.
kleon777Aug 25, 2010
"Imagine some idiot saying, "oh no, you can't build a church there,""
These decisions happen all the time on a local level. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
malexAug 25, 2010
There are normal zoning issue decisions made all the time, but never on the basic of the government favoring one religion over another. Because that's what the 1st Amendment and Freedom of Religon actually means.
How the ever-living f**k is this being lost on you?
sugarazorAug 25, 2010
"You can't be this stupid."
He's not... he calls it a "victory monument" in another comment, so not stupid, just a bigot.
georgenugwellAug 25, 2010
ą² _ą²
intenseboredomAug 25, 2010
I don't think it's a boneheaded move. The only people who would are those who think there is a 1 to 1 correlation between Islam and terrorism (in that all terrorist are Muslim and all Muslims are terrorist).
Since I don't think that, and I don't mind a group of innocent people wanting to build a cultural center on private and available property, one of the last things I'd characterize this as is a "bone headed move"
dipsomaniacAug 25, 2010
Yes, the Pentagon is a much better area for a place to pray. Not at all near anything that happened that day, right?
That's obviously why the 'baggers aren't going bugs**t over that one, I suppose.
intenseboredomAug 25, 2010
Oh, by the way:
The Westboro Bapist church, the KKK, neo Nazi, the Sons of Freedom, PETA and abortion clinic bombers.
But, hey maybe I'm being biased because I'm focusing on mostly white organizations.
tiduAug 25, 2010
"No matter what you think about the Mosque, you have to admit it's a boneheaded move building this so close to where Islamic extremists (are there any other kind?) committed that horrible act on 9/11."
And... you're just going to bully them until you get what you want?
kleon777Aug 25, 2010
I don't plan on taking my opinion to court. I know we are already winning in the court of public opinion.
chilidogsAug 25, 2010
Good thing the we have a constitution to protect us from the opinions of frothing lunatics.
kleon777Aug 25, 2010
The Constitution doesn't apply here. It's a imple local zoning issue. If the city doesn't think it's a good idea to build what is essentially a 9/11 victory monument, it won't be built. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
dipsomaniacAug 25, 2010
Yeah, that's not how zoning laws work. Zoning boards don't get to say "Churches, but not mosques." They don't get to tell people "Christians, but not Muslims."
intenseboredomAug 25, 2010
Dude, Kleon.
I'm an Asian atheist and I'm offended by what you just said.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
Maybe instead of deporting migrant workers, we should start deporting ignorant mouth breathers.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
A lot of people lost friends and relatives at the hand of Muslim extremist. I read blogs on this sight all the time about how the Christians are the ones with blood on there hands, but I have yet to hear a story about one of them screaming "God is great" before blowing themselves and innocent people up around them. Christians don't stone gays in the streets or lead their wives around town with a stick "No bigger than their thumb".
These people are hurt because they lost loved ones because an extremist Muslim killed their friends and relatives for religious beliefs.
If the Muslims want to bridge the gap they should start with denouncing the acts of terrorist.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001454.html#axzz0xZoWLzuW
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
ironhideAug 25, 2010
"Christians don't stone gays in the streets or lead their wives around town with a stick "No bigger than their thumb".
The sole reason for that is because we don't live in a theocracy, don't kid yourself otherwise.
malexAug 25, 2010
"I read blogs on this sight all the time about how the Christians are the ones with blood on there hands, but I have yet to hear a story about one of them screaming "God is great" before blowing themselves and innocent people up around them."
Really? I guess you haven't read any news out of Ireland today;
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2010/0824/Did-a-Catholic-priest-assist-an-IRA-murder-in-Northern-Ireland
raresaturnAug 25, 2010
I'm against it, but then again I'm against all places of "worship" You should read this: http://bit.ly/a945Qi
stillhateyouAug 25, 2010
I'm an atheist too, but we have a Constitution which specifically provides for the freedom of religion. Further, I'm receptive to the idea that I may in fact be wrong, so I don't go around thinking people are idiots because they're religious.
But then, I'm not a self-righteous assh**e like you are.
raresaturnAug 25, 2010
congratulations, you are wrong.
travelsonicAug 25, 2010
Rare, attacking without backing up your opinion. Thanks for proving his point, Derpazoid.
superkendallAug 25, 2010
You want toxic? You should see the people demonizing the poor 9/11 families who find the thought of a mosque offensive and are now being painted as racist!
Those families lost fathers and mothers, how can you all be so cruel and inconsiderate by not thinking of them? I personally don't see a problem with a mosque at ground zero of 9/11, but they do and that should be the end of it.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
ironhideAug 25, 2010
In the United States, you don't have a right not to be offended.
halyardAug 25, 2010
If you're a white male.
ironhideAug 25, 2010
Oh poor abused white males..you know, I've been one for almost 43 years and I still haven't seen this victimhood you embrace.
halyardAug 25, 2010
If you're a white, heterosexual male.
ironhideAug 25, 2010
Ok halyard, I'm still in the running, also still haven't see that victimhood.
vegetablelambAug 25, 2010
there is a special spot in Hell reserved exclusively for small-minded butt-hurt victim-complex aggressively-insecure white American males
overridemymindAug 25, 2010
Wish I could digg you up a million times. So many laws today that Censor this. Can't do that in this place. Can't say this. Ban this. Ban that. All because people in this country seem to think they have a right not to be offended. I have a Constitutional right to say whatever the f**k I like. We all do. You know there's talk of banning the n-word in Hawaii? Yes, it's a horrible word to use, and it's not polite to say it, but people are talking about BANNING a WORD in AMERICA. WTF?
Whatever happened to the days when someone would offend you, you'd flip him the bird and call him an assh**e, and move on with your day?
sugarazorAug 25, 2010
Good thing we don't base laws on feelings.
Tell me, when did Republicans get interested in being politically correct?
stillhateyouAug 25, 2010
"they do and that should be the end of it."
No it shouldn't. That has *no* place in this debate. These guys are protected by the First Amendment. After that, it's an entirely local issue. Seeing as to how a plurality of people that live in Manhattan support the community center being built, it would seem there is absolutely no case against it.
dipsomaniacAug 25, 2010
So you would also support that Muslim-Americans who have lost relatives in the Iraq debacle should also have a disproportionate voice in what's going on there, right?
Wait, you don't? Why is that? Those families lost fathers and mothers, how can you be so cruel and inconsiderate by not thinking of them?
limpboyAug 25, 2010
Imagine your a Muslim Iraqi, most of your family has died after 2003, your poor, no food, no water, no electricity , no education and no "real" government to support you. Then you find out that in the most advanced country in the world, the world's superpower, where freedom and democracy are in its most complete form, the construction of a Islamic community center is not tolerant .
How would you feel about america?
raresaturnAug 25, 2010
Presumably they love America which is why they chose to live there...
limpboyAug 25, 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Muthi
kasha34Aug 25, 2010
Who cares?
ryfiAug 25, 2010
because it creates enemies......
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
It is ironic that when the Muslim sentiments were violated by Mohammad's cartoons, everyone cried freedom of expression and speech. And, now with this issue freedom of religion takes a back seat and it is all about the sentiments of the survivors of the 9/11 incident. I say take your pick is it going to be your "freedom" of speech, expression, religion or sentiments. Acts like these prove to Muslims that it was never about freedom of speech and expression, but only about pissing off the Muslims. Now, that is a noble act. If you claim to be noble by supporting an open society and fighting for people's freedoms then IMO you should be noble enough to be caring about other people's emotions as well.
Being a Muslim I would like to say that I do not agree with the organization behind this project. They claim to be working for a harmony between Islam and the West. I think in this case they should move the project elsewhere to prove that they actually do care about people's sentiments. This whole incident is just breeding more hatred against us, and polarizing the people even more.
wizardalienAug 25, 2010
Preface: I am an American Muslim with Middle Eastern descent. I understand the notion of wanting to make people happy. I usually tell people I'm Italian when working my retail job (mostly because I need to make a sale).
That being said, no giving in every time someone is unhappy is not the answer. These protests happen all over the country, not just in "ground zero". Its time to make people uncomfortable so they can start reevaluating thier own thoughts and prejudices.
What would have happened if Rosa Parks just gave in?
What would have happened is women decided to accept their place and give in?
I love chaos, I love discomfort. Why, because it is when people's true character shines through. It is easy to fake a smile when everything's peach. However in discomfort, people start showing their true moral fiber. And you know what I see. I see hope. While there are many people opposed to the center, there are those few bright lights in the darkness that are standing up for what is good despite their discomforts. I see the majority of TV pundits supporting the center and I see the majority of politicians doing the same. Yes there is a lot of ignorance in the world but whenever I hear hatred, I remember these words "Forgive them for they know not what they do" . These people will come around and eventually see the error of their ways. They're just tired and upset and need someone to hate. But this mosque/center/swimming pool, it will get people comfortable, slowly but surely. It'll be tough but history has shown that all good things come out of times of incredible darkness...give it time.
mejf2loyAug 25, 2010
Should they be allowed to build it? Yes. But it is insensitive. If they really wanted to "build bridges" they would realize what they are doing and place it a street over.
Its like putting the National Socialist Party headquarters near Auschwitz.. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
vanillababiesAug 25, 2010
I agree, in fact, how about a few blocks away?
aricaniusAug 25, 2010
It's two blocks away already, what is your reasoning for wanting it one more street over? If it were three blocks you would be saying put it four.
dipsomaniacAug 25, 2010
Right, right. They should demonstrate their senstivity and tolerance by giving in to bigotry.
That's how it works, right?
babboaAug 25, 2010
I agree. I guess I am one of the only sane registered republicans I have found on this issue. It should be allowed to be built. It is protected in our constitution.That being said, I feel that the decision to build it at the proposed site as an act of political grandstanding designed to elicit just the response we have seen. At MOST there should have been a very small, dignified protest by 9/11 affected families. All the protesters have done now is to give extreme elements of islam another recruiting/fundraising tool (all they have to do now is point their finger at foxnews and scream "look, the americans claim there country is built on tolerance but they want their government to step in and prevent us from building our mosque!")
Honestly, a more effective protest might have been to buy the building next door and open up "The House of All Things Pork Bar and Grill", openly run a brothel on the second story, and host the weekly secular humanist/scientologist/evangelical christian pig roast each friday at noon.
Incredibly offensive? yes. political stunt? definitely. Is it 1/1000 as disrespectful as choosing the proposed location of this mosque? not even close.
aricaniusAug 25, 2010
Putting a community center (it's not a mosque) two blocks away from where the towers fell is disrespectful? Should muslims all just leave New York out of respect? Terrorists attacked on 9/11, not muslims. I wonder if it's insensitive to build a christian church in Oklahoma.
malexAug 25, 2010
Babboa's position only makes sense if you think that the 9/11 terrorists honestly had the authority to speak for Islam.
digg2point0Aug 25, 2010
"If they really wanted to "build bridges" they would [...] place it a street over."
So 1 mile is bad, but 1 mile + 1 street is good?
digg2point0Aug 25, 2010
sorry... half mile
kevenmAug 25, 2010
Relevant: "The group which sponsored this rally has a website -- the repellently named StopThe911Mosque.com -- which is registered to The Center for Security Policy, the group of Frank Gaffney, one of the most deranged and dishonest right-wing extremists in the country."
homercles337Aug 25, 2010
Thats one of those bats**t crazy, extremist right-wing "think" tanks. I would not be surprised if Koch secretly funneled money to these f**kwits.
allisonaxeAug 25, 2010
I look at the news and feel like I'm getting to understand what it must have felt like to live in pre-war Germany, with an entire people being blamed for our misfortunes. I'm more afraid now, of what our nation is becoming, than any act of terrorism could have ever done. I thought we were better than this.
xptoastAug 25, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
ironhideAug 25, 2010
Ok, let's try this again...it's TWO BLOCKS AWAY and it's an abandoned Burlington Coat Factory.
xptoastAug 25, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
halyardAug 25, 2010
It's not about freedom of religion. There are other Muslim centers and schools in the area. Nobody wants to drive the Muslims from Manhattan. It's about building the largest, grandest, Islamic center in North America over a building damaged by debris from the largest, grandest mass murder in North America perpetrated in the name of Islam. The building will be a $100 million recruitment poster for terrorists and will do more to support terrorism than giving them the cash directly would have. Yes, we have a First Amendment that we sometimes care about, and they could build a monument to the 19 hijackers if they wanted; but if there were anything at all noble about its construction, they would build the center somewhere else. And if Obama had any class, he would confront the issues directly rather than pretend it is about religious freedom.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
vegetablelambAug 25, 2010
"It's about building the largest, grandest, Islamic center in North America over a building damaged by debris from the largest, grandest mass murder in North America perpetrated in the name of Islam."
Are you an Al-Qaeda shill? I swear, you xenophobes are doing more PR work for the terrorists than they ever need to do for themselves.
heavyj1970Aug 25, 2010
It's Called Cordoba House, know what that means?
Cordoba was, of course, the seat of the caliphate established in what is now modern Spain after the Islamic invasion from North Africa in the 8th century A.D. The medieval occupation of Spain ā āal-Andalusā ā is considered by Islamic theorists to have been an inevitable step in the manifest destiny of Islam, and its eventual reversal through the lengthy European āReconquistaā a tragic but temporary triumph of the infidels. The great mosque at Cordoba was built on the foundation of a Christian cathedral, and when Europeans retook Cordoba in the 13th century they turned the magnificent mosque back into a cathedral.
I'm sure it doesn't mean anything though, it's just a name right? Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
vegetablelambAug 25, 2010
It's not just a name, it's a talking point crafted to instill fear in the knee-jerk electorate. Glad to see you played along with your puppet masters.
travelsonicAug 25, 2010
"There are other Muslim centers and schools in the area. "
Then why is building one such a big problem then?
"Nobody wants to drive the Muslims from Manhattan. "
Carl Paladino and his supporters do. Eminent domain being used to end the project is being promised if he is elected to state senate.
"he building will be a $100 million recruitment poster for terrorists and will do more to support terrorism than giving them the cash directly would have."
[citation needed]
Seriously, wtf is with these inane claims?
"but if there were anything at all noble about its construction, they would build the center somewhere else."
Opinion noted.
malexAug 25, 2010
"Yes, we have a First Amendment that we sometimes care about,"
Get the hell out of my country.
spider_manAug 25, 2010
The "it's only a community center" argument is a lie. Yes, there is a community center but there is also a mosque there as well. Not a prayer room. A mosque. The "it's not at ground zero" argument is also a lie. A major piece of one of the planes destroyed the building that was previously on that lot. That's ground zero. The "people have the constutional right to practice their religion" argument is misleading in the fact that it implies opponents feel it is illegal or somehow can otherwise legally restrain them from putting the mosque there. I have heard NO ONE suggest that. I have heard people say that they don't think they should build it there, are offended that they are building it there, want to protest about it being built there, etc. Big difference.
It's funny how liberals fall all over themselves to come to the rescue of minority groups when they are offended no matter how ridiculously trivial the issue is or if it is a non issue being blown way out of proportion, but when a group of conservatives are offended, well too bad.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
dzhuo04Aug 25, 2010
Lol, you must have not been there on draw Muhammad day
yeahwhatever58Aug 25, 2010
spider,
You are spot on correct. In all of these comments, I never ever read anything about how there IS a mosque to be built there AND the fact that there was damage to those building(s) making THAT AREA GROUND ZERO. Liberals are pushing hard to pepetuate lies about this issue. They also constantly are pushing the constitutional rights angle...and like you said...no one is arguing that. How many times can one beat down a dead horse. The constitutional angle IS A NON ISSUE. It is a local zoning issue and people have the right in that area to voice their displeasure at the thought of building that mosque. The locality has the right to approve or not approve construction of any building or structure it sees as fit and proper for the area or not fit and proper. Also, freedom of speech gives people on both the local and national level the right to speak out against this project. So it's funny how liberals want to pound the constitutional rights of freedom of religion....yet when anyone objects to this mosque project...the liberals want to overlook the constitutional rights to free speech of those objecting.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
realcoolguy9022Aug 25, 2010
Obviously getting their cues from the AP and others to no longer call it the ground zero mosque.
studiopenguinAug 25, 2010
Probably because it's not at ground zero and all.
travelsonicAug 25, 2010
"...to no longer call it the ground zero mosque."
Because it was and is never planned to be ON ground zero perhaps?
Derp...
halyardAug 25, 2010
If you're a white, heterosexual male.
marx2kAug 25, 2010
What a f**king disgrace this is for our country. I'd love to know where the majority of this crowd hails from. Sure as s**t it's not NY.
dzhuo04Aug 25, 2010
Digg Patriots have heard the rally cry, watch them trickle in. I guess things really do go bump in the night.
locastusAug 25, 2010
Of course, the Digg Patriots!
That would be why every right-leaning comment on this thread has been buried in oblivion.
/s
tyrghastAug 25, 2010
Shame on anyone still calling it a 'mosque'.
yeahwhatever58Aug 25, 2010
It would be a community center AND a mosque being built there. BOTH.
jimraganAug 25, 2010
It has to be called a mosque or the First Amendment wouldn't come into play.
ronpauliskingAug 26, 2010
it would still be a property rights issue
o76923Aug 26, 2010
Actually, the people who are building it call it a mosque.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/aug/23/al-hunt/ground-zero-mosque-not-even-mosque/
mikelistAug 25, 2010
like the guy might have said eventually, "f**k's wrong with you people anyway?"
i'm sure that news of one of fox news co-owners being listed as a benefactor to terrorist organization, by fox news itself will probably fly over people's heads.
there ARE radical, dangerous adherents to islam, but it's preposterous, wrong-headed, and counter-productive to claim that islam is in itself a threat to america.
did you know that muslims believe jesus will return on the last day? i know some people believe they are chosen by god to help bring about that day, but as the guy said, "... by their fruits you will know them."
another interesting point is that no respectful or reverential monument has been built on that "hallowed ground" where the tragedy actually took place.
ecoreAug 25, 2010
It most certainly is a distraction from the real issues.
This is America. People get to do with their property as they please as long as it adheres to city code. It's a non-issue as we all have freedoms that include right of land ownership and the freedom of religion.
There is no discrimination when it comes to rights.
mistrbrownstoneAug 25, 2010
I don't think the people protesting the mosque are right, but maybe once there is something more substantial, and positive than a giant scar at Ground Zero (and we can stop calling it Ground Zero) people will become less sensitive to this kind of thing. Maybe.
vicsvengeAug 25, 2010
I always find it funny that those on the right are the first to whine and bitch that the constitution is being abused when the President suggests a mandate for healthcare... but as soon as it has to do with something they don't agree with they're happy to throw the constitution in the fire.
PS the mosque debate isn't a distraction... it's a f**king disgrace.
u2canfailAug 25, 2010
No sir, the real disgrace is that the GOP turned down health care for the 1st responders. They care about this site, not the health and well being of those who served. The toxins have made many ill.
jefftsAug 25, 2010
I've not heard one person say that they CAN'T build a mosque/community center there. That would be an infringement on the constitutional rights. What I have heard people say is that they SHOULDN'T build it there as it could be insensitive to those who lost loved ones on 9/11. Tolerance is a 2-way street. The individuals who are planning on building the mosque/community center should take the higher ground by realizing that their plans could be insensitive or inflammatory to some and move it to a less controversial location within NYC. If it had, instead, been Christian radicals who committed the terrorist acts on 9/11, I would hold the same opinion if someone wanted to build a Christian church in the same location.
And I love how the Left is always all about being mindful of other people's feelings and being politically correct...except when it's an opinion coming from the other side of the aisle. Then, they become some of the most intolerant bigots out there while naming calling, demonizing and labeling racist everyone who opposes them. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
travelsonicAug 25, 2010
"I've not heard one person say that they CAN'T build a mosque/community center there. "
Carl Paladino.
overridemymindAug 25, 2010
"And I love how the Left is always all about being mindful of other people's feelings and being politically correct...except when it's an opinion coming from the other side of the aisle. Then, they become some of the most intolerant bigots out there while naming calling, demonizing and labeling racist everyone who opposes them."
Demonizing and name calling aside - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Free_exercise_of_religion
It's in the Constitution, in the Bill of Rights. Why the debate?
I mean, honestly - if it's not fear, bigotry, hatred, etc. Why is there a debate? It's in black-and-white in the very foundation of this nation.
irvin666Aug 25, 2010
I'm an atheist, not a liberal, I think they have the right to build the community center there. Freedom of religion applies here. Constitution first.
It's not like they are building a statue of Mohammed with the twin towers in one hand and two airplanes with the other. Which he does it in a way that a five-year-old plays with his toys. At the inscription it reads "AL-LALALALALALALALA, DIE YOU f**kING INFIDELS. OUR SPECIAL GIFT FOR YOU! HA!"
Did they do that? no. It's just a community center ffs.
Yes, you can protest, but be aware that you are making America look very douchey.
yeahwhatever58Aug 25, 2010
No, actually it's Americans that don't want to consider the feelings of other Americans who lost loved ones on 9/11, that make America look very douchey.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
irvin666Aug 25, 2010
They are Muslims that are building the community center, not a terrorist group. Are you saying that Muslims are terrorists and therefore get no right to build there?
yeahwhatever58Aug 25, 2010
It's comments like that....that make America look douchey. For starters, it is not just a community center so stop perpetuating lies. A mosque is to be built there as well. You are being straight up disingenuous to not acknowledge the fact that known terrorists are tied to Islam, making them Muslims. Also in my comment, did I say that they didn't have a right to build there? NO. I said it makes Americans look very douchey (to steal your term) to not consider the feelings of those people that lost loved ones on 9/11 that don't want it to be built there. While freedom of religion and freedom of speech are constitutionally protected rights, there are still zoning issues that have to be met in order for any structure to be built in a locality. If that area sees it unfit for a mosque to be built there, then it won't get approval and constitutional rights don't guarantee anyone the right to build anything anywhere they like.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
irvin666Aug 25, 2010
If it is a zoning issue, then yes, they will have a problem building there. If it is not zoned to be built like that, then they can not build there. What happened at 9/11 was caused by terrorists with a political agenda who happened to be Muslims. To them, they are right. To other Muslims, they broke every law in the Koran.
To put it another way, the KKK is a racist non-catholic Christian organization. Do you still consider the KKK to be Christians? To them, they are right.
yeahwhatever58Aug 25, 2010
Not only is it a zoning issue, but why isn't anyone researching where the money is coming from to build this mosque?? There is more to this story than meets the eye. The developer, Sharif El-Gamal will not speak about where the money and backing is coming from. You are trying very hard to make an argument that the mosque being built is all innocent and is only connected to the mainstream Islamic faith and has NO ties to anything from a terrorist faction of that faith. You don't know this....we would like to know this but we are getting zero cooperation from those who are behind this project.
Regarding your second paragraph...NO, you can't put it another way by trying to tie a parallel to the KKK. All members of the KKK get into that group because they are supporters of racism and everything that is wrong that is attached to that. They claim they are Christians but the SOLE purpose of EVERY member who joins the KKK is to perpetuate racism. Is it the sole purpose of every Muslim to be a terrorist?? One of the key differences here is that we are not hearing enough revolt from the mainstream Muslims about the terrorist factions of their faith. They are allowing the whack job terrorists to hijack their faith and make that the predominant image of what being a Muslim is about. Compare that to the KKK, and every mainstream Catholic or Protestant christian denomination will ALL speak out against the KKK. Where is that same approach coming from the mainstream Muslims?? It's not there at all.
Also, you are showing your naivete (sp?) if you think that 9/11 was caused by terrorists with a political agenda who just happened to be Muslims. NO, it was caused by Muslim terrorists BECAUSE they are Muslims. This war that is being conducted by the Muslim terrorists is not just a political maneuver....it is steeped in their religious belief system. The western world are the infidels and their terrorist acts are always done with this driving force in mind. They are using their version of the Islamic faith to fuel their acts so is it any wonder that the western world is going to be on guard and to look out for acts that happen because they are tied to this religion. If the KKK does something, no one sees that it is directly tied to the fact that they claim they are Christians. Everyone knows their stupidity is due to their racist views...not their religion's views.
overridemymindAug 25, 2010
*sigh* Terrorists that are Muslims != Muslims are terrorists. Much like Dads are Men, but not all Men are Dads.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
f**k the families of the victims, we need to bend over in the name of religious tolerance, no matter how provocative the act is.
u2canfailAug 25, 2010
Families of victims?
What about the health of the 1st responders? Those who are sick from toxins at the site? Why no health care for them? Is this site more important? This is a stupid distraction, bought to you by those who voted against health care for the responders.
brandhayAug 25, 2010
Why would the republicans be using this for a distraction? Everyone's attention is on the economy. What party would benefit from distracting people away from the economy? Not the republicans.
vectorbAug 25, 2010
The republicans have no economic policy beyond the BS that bankrupted the country. They can only be elected on fear.
u2canfailAug 25, 2010
True and they voted down health care for the 1st responders. This is great cover.
mksmothersAug 25, 2010
Let the Muslims have their victory mosque. They should get something for taking down the twin towers. If they go further out they won't get a clearer view of their work. Islam: a religion of peace, and a whole lot of dead bodies.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
vegetablelambAug 25, 2010
What's up with ignorant chumps calling it a 'victory mosque'? Are you getting paid by Al-Qaeda to promote them?
mksmothersAug 25, 2010
What would you call it, mosque of peace and brotherhood. Should we ignore the fact that muslims took out a building two blocks away?
bawbzillaAug 26, 2010
I wouldn't call it a mosque at all, genius. Considering, you know, it isn't one. The very fact that you don't even know it isn't a mosque shows how very little you know about the subject and shows you aren't qualified in the least to discuss it.
Run along and read an encyclopedia before coming back.
mksmothersAug 26, 2010
Muslims call it a mosque, therefore its a mosque.
crashingechelonAug 25, 2010
I think this whole debate is retarded, there's no reason for it. We're a country that's made on religious freedom and they should be able to build a mosque where ever they please. But they also should be respectful of the events that happened in that area and understand its meaning.
qwed88Aug 25, 2010
What ever happened to freedom of speech, all men are created equal, separation of church and state?
Where did the "The Grand Experiment" go?
I would like to see a Synagogue, Mosque, and Church built side by side there.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
I totally agree with what you said. And the point I was trying to make was that they shouldn't just quietly change the location, they should make it just as public that the reason for the change of location is the hate speech it was generating. That would give those who still have the ability to make reasonable judgment a reason to think that Muslims are not crazy after all, and that would prove that we actually are a religion of peace. By the way Rosa Parks example is good and all, but fortunately things are not as bad for us yet. Those poor folks had to go through a lot worse. Though if the naive kept playing in to the hands of the opportunists, that day won't be too far. That is not only sad but also extremely dangerous. America shouldn't go down the same path it has before, and later regretted.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
If any Libertarian cares to go do some maths and work out the ratio of Christian /Non Muslim places of worship in the Islamic world, compared to Mosques in Western society, then come back and talk about Religious freedom and tolerance.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
Seems the Libertarians are similar to the Patriots, they don't like being presented with FACTS
ronpauliskingAug 26, 2010
here's the bulls**t in your argument, you can't have churches in Saudi Arabia, which is a government we fund and protect, in Iran they have one of the largest Jewish populations in the Middle East. In Saudi Arabia people celebrated in the streets on 9/11, in Iran there was a moment of silence at a soccer game.