blogs.wsj.com — Thousands of workers spend their days toiling in the neighborhood around the World Trade Center site, a space that had gained renewed national attention amid controversial plans to build an Islamic center there.
Aug 20, 2010 View in Crawl 4
alanocuAug 20, 2010
When strippers start flying jumbo jets into the skyscrapers in downtown Manhattan, then we'll have a problem.
travelsonicAug 20, 2010
Ah, but what if they kill others without the use of "jumbo jets"? [which, technically, is not defined for anything below 747 aircraft type but has become generic through application to any aircraft between 757 and 747 in size]Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
spinningheadAug 20, 2010
Men flew jets into building. Maybe we should ban men from Manhattan.
mweatherAug 20, 2010
Or just ban jumbo jets.
weierstrassAug 20, 2010
You're right. No one should ever be banned from anything.
tomasiiAug 20, 2010
Yeah, that those men were all shouting Alahu Akbar is totally irrelevant.
mweatherAug 20, 2010
Here's the deal: We'll agree to ban Muslims from Manhattan if you agree to ban Christians from Oklahoma City.
miatafitz2002Aug 20, 2010
Didn't know there were men in manhatten
miatafitz2002Aug 20, 2010
How bout gays in california
ubitendoAug 20, 2010
The terrorists visited strip clubs, so somehow you can blame lapdances for 9/11....
elranzerAug 20, 2010
When non-extremist Muslims start flying jumbo jets into the skyscrapers in downtown Manhattan, then we'll have a problem.
Until then, don't blame the entire religion. But that's too much to expect from a derping DP'er.
misterbadideaAug 21, 2010
"When strippers start flying jumbo jets into the skyscrapers in downtown Manhattan, then we'll have a problem."
Well, that's a true statement at the very least. We will, indeed, have a major problem when strippers start suicide bombing us.
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
Absolutely. We could run out of strippers.
ShovelbabyAug 20, 2010
Well I guess if strippers say it’s okay to build the mosque there, then it's all good, right? Perhaps we should ask them their opinion on the economy too. My advice to those strippers would be to learn a little more about sharia law.
The point that this article seems to want to make is that this proves some sort of religious hypocrisy. First of all, one thing has nothing to do with the other. While Ground Zero is a hallowed place for the relatives who have lost their loved ones, it is not sacred ground in a religious sense. Actually, the very fact that strip clubs have been there without anyone complaining about it proves that point. Beyond that, strippers do not want to impose their morality on everyone or blow up Western civilization.
This is not and has never been about religious freedom. It is about sensitivity. Rubbing salt in the wounds of the families of the victims and calling it "healing" doesn’t make it so. There are even many muslims that agree that this mosque location is in poor taste and should not be built in that location. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
travelsonicAug 20, 2010
"This is not and has never been about religious freedom. It is about sensitivity."
It isn't about either or, it is about both, especially with the likes of Carl Paladino wanting to use eminent domain to stop the project [being a major campaign point for his run at state senate]
misterbadideaAug 21, 2010
Let's let my man, neocon and fierce hater of Islam and all religions Christopher Hitchens, take on the argument about sensitivity:
"Where to start with this part-pathetic and part-sinister appeal to demagogy? To begin with, it borrows straight from the playbook of Muslim cultural blackmail. Claim that something is "offensive," and it is as if the assertion itself has automatically become an argument. You are even allowed to admit, as does Foxman, that the ground for taking offense is "irrational and bigoted." But, hey—why think when you can just feel? "Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
haookenAug 20, 2010
Did you seriously just use '4' and '@'? Come on...
Closed AccountAug 20, 2010
OMG
ed4649Aug 21, 2010
Relax, ur only allowed a certain # of characters 4 the title when ur submitting something 2 digg.
timthetaxmanAug 20, 2010
I thought Republicans were supposed to be the party of small government and minimal regulation.
How does restricting the use of someone’s property reconcile with that basic tenet.
Republicans want just as much control over the population as the Democrats. Each side is willing to use coercive force to get what they want. Only the goals are different.
travelsonicAug 20, 2010
"How does restricting the use of someone’s property reconcile with that basic tenet. "
Before anybody say that nobody wants to stop the project, but merely protest it: Look at the ad campaign for senate candidate Carl Paladino, he wants to use EMINENT DOMAIN to stop the project:
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2010/07/carl-paladino-id-use-eminent-d.html
lithdovAug 20, 2010
Are you claiming only Republicans are opposed to the Cordoba House? Last time I checked, over 61% of the population thinks its a bad f**king idea and Harry Reid spoke out against it. Also, I suppose the families of 9/11 victims and 9/11 first responders who have stated that this is insulting bulls**t are all just partisan hacks too, right?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
timthetaxmanAug 20, 2010
Not at all, I’m sure lots of various people are against it. However, to be against it means you support the government dictating what people can and can’t do with their property. There is no essential difference between that and a Democrat saying we are going to use (or take) your property to make society more in line with what we think it should be like.
lithdovAug 20, 2010
I don't think there's any legal argument against the building of the facility, and I wouldn't support it if any state or federal agency tried to prevent its construction. People are free to express their anger over this, however, and if the stated goal of "opening dialogue" and "better understanding" between Muslims and the rest of the population is really what they want, this seems like the worst f**king way to pursue it.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
timthetaxmanAug 20, 2010
I agree that from a public relations standpoint, this is probably not the best location choice, nevertheless they are free to do as they wish.
I don’t have a problem with people protesting this, but I do have a problem when they try to use the coercive force of the government to force their will on people and their property.
That said, I think it is unfortunate that people are still unable to separate violent Islam with peaceful Islam. To my knowledge, the people building this have never hurt anyone or done anything wrong.
lithdovAug 20, 2010
The project leader, Feisal Abdul Rauf, has been accused of having ties to Hamas. I haven't seen any hard evidence to make a clear connection, so I'd list this accusation as dubious and don't really consider it in my position. He has, however, made accusations to the effect that the U.S. got what it deserved on 9/11 and has stated in interviews for Arab-language publications that he doesn't believe in separation of church and state or the idea of secular state and that his work is to operate within the legal system of a country to implement sharia law wherever he can. This is a legitimate cause for concern for anyone who has a problem with Islamic law usurping US law. That may sound far-fetched, but it already has been in areas such as Dearborn, MI.
And hey, a calm, rational discussion of the issue on Digg? I'm shocked and pleased. Thanks.
elranzerAug 20, 2010
More like the party of small minds and minimal thinking.
vatosplaceAug 20, 2010
Largely the goals are similar, the means are changed some.
cheezinternAug 20, 2010
It doesn't, republicans/religious right/conservatives are hypocrites.
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
You didn't read the fine print. They're the party of small government and minimal regulation *when they aren't running it*. Put 'em in charge and watch them go right back to the same crap they pulled from 2000 to 2008.
jaimequinAug 20, 2010
Its really sad that Islam is simply Taliban to Americans. Even sadder is that Christians extremist and politicians opposed to this, don't practice what Jesus preached. They are all hypocrites.
superkendallAug 20, 2010
What's sadder is that moderate Islamics let things get that way by refusing to speak out against the radicals earlier.
dzhuo04Aug 20, 2010
So Americans are in support of killing innocent Iraqis and Afghanis because we don't speak out against the civilian casualties inflicted by the U.S. Army?
You are a f**king moron, this is basically guilt by association.
keillyAug 20, 2010
The real problem is the deliberately inflammatory term "the mosque at ground zero" - it's actually a Islamic cultural centre, intended to be similar to a Y/YMCA or JCC, blocks from ground zero in a converted coat factory.
subductionAug 20, 2010
Hush -- can't you see people are trying to masturbate?
lithdovAug 20, 2010
Two blocks. Quit trying to make it sound like it's three miles away. And "an Islamic cultural center" hardly makes it any better. "Hey, jihadists blew up your buildings and killed nearly 3,000 Americans, we should build a 15-story facility celebrating and promoting the religion they attributed their attacks to!"
Intentional or not, this project is sticking a thumb in the eyes of Americans. That's hardly conducive to "opening dialogue."Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountAug 20, 2010
Hey I'm an American--and a New Yorker at that--and there are no thumbs in my eyes. You don't speak for me.
madtechnologistAug 20, 2010
Yes! We should bend over and take it up the ass from jihadists..BRILLIANT!!
tomasiiAug 20, 2010
BS, it's main function will be as a worship center....I. E. mosque. Muslims are compelled to pray 5 times a day, I guess they'll jump out of the pool and on to their faces. Only the people for the project believe that it will be anything else. If it quacks like a duck...Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
thinderellaAug 20, 2010
http://www.cracked.com/blog/3-reasons-the-ground-zero-mosque-debate-makes-no-sense/
Closed AccountAug 20, 2010
The article points out that the area around the WTC attack is not hallowed in any sense; with strip clubs, adult theaters, betting areas, and other sorts of things found in red-light districts, and with accounts of homeless people before and after 9/11, the area surrounding the WTC site is hardly sacred. Further, these other places are much closer than Park51 is to be located, which isn't even a mosque.
A mosque is, according to the Qur'an, a place that keeps the people within focused on worship. This implies that no other activity beyond prayer and worship can occur in a mosque. Park51 has a culinary school, a basketball court, and other facilities that don't really follow through with this. It has a prayer room on the top floors, sure, but this is a far cry from it being a mosque any more than a hospital ward being called a church for having an interfaith chapel.
superkendallAug 20, 2010
People didn't fly airplanes into buildings in the name of strippers.
I think the mosque has every right to build there. But, I think it's pretty insensitive - I would care but the fact that a number of families of people who were killed there care, means the mosque should back off.
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
cl1mh4224rdAug 20, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
tomasiiAug 20, 2010
If you want to quote the holy book of muslims why not quote the part about killing the infidels?
zaphodbblxAug 21, 2010
gee I think all that "kill the infidel" stuff is in the bible too..don't forget the incest, rape, genocide and wife beating!
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
Ummm, maybe the same reason Chrstians quote the Bible without quoting the part about stoning adulterers? Just sayin'.
miatafitz2002Aug 20, 2010
The mosque at groud zero is wrong You are naive and a child
marx2kAug 21, 2010
Such a compelling argument.
irvman21Aug 20, 2010
I have always opposed strip clubs at the site of terrorist attacks committed by strippers. Similarly, I oppose the construction of a mosque, the intention of which is to be as offensive as possible to the average american, from being built at the site of a terrorist attack committed by muslims.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
spinningheadAug 20, 2010
"the intention of which is to be as offensive as possible to the below-average American" FTFY
You are suggesting that Muslim AMERICANS are building a community center in the city in which they live just to piss you off. The retardation runs deep in you.
irvman21Aug 20, 2010
Islam has a long history of intentionally building landmarks with the specific intention to piss off the evil non-believers. The dome of the rock is built where it is for no other reason than it is the holiest possible place for Jews. Period. If you think otherwise, you are kidding yourself.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
2bdtrmndAug 20, 2010
Its a community center that has a mosque inside it! How do you possibly know what the intentions are? Its meant to be open to all so you could go in yourself and see whats going on in there!
misterbadideaAug 21, 2010
Don't you dare f**king pretend to speak for the "average American," s**thead.
irvman21Aug 22, 2010
I didn't. I spoke of the intention of those building the mosque. You have reading comprehension issues. Did you eat paint chips as a child?
subductionAug 20, 2010
And what about the Christian churches *right across the street* from the hallowed ground of the Oklahoma City Bombing, where Christian Identity Movement-aligned terrorist Timothy McVeigh took 168 lives including 19 children?
http://tinyurl.com/23e82re
This is an outrage -- these Christians have to be stopped.
humptydankAug 20, 2010
Hoy crap -- the so-called "Frontline Fellowship" is a fundamentalist Christian church and community center just *two blocks* from the Oklahoma city site.
Right on their web site they're not even ashamed to call themselves a "Bible-based" church. Have any of you people read the Bible? Do you even know what it says about women and punishment?
They say that they're funded by "the community" and by donations from parishioners -- has anyone looked into who these people are and where this money is coming from?
tomasiiAug 20, 2010
They probably would be if 99% of all terrorist attacks in the last few years have been perpetrated by muslims.
subductionAug 20, 2010
Yes, and 100% of KKK attacks were perpetrated by Christians.
As a person on the left I embrace Christians and Muslims, but I make a distinction between the ones trying to kill people and everyone else.
spinningheadAug 20, 2010
You know who does business with terrorists? Fox News.
http://digg.com/television/The_Daily_Show_With_Jon_Stewart_Extremist_Makeover_Homelan?OTC-kff
trpnblies7Aug 20, 2010
I was under the impression that this article would deal with four specific strippers.
pinchduckAug 20, 2010
I forget, were the hijackers strippers or Islamic fundamentalists?
subductionAug 20, 2010
I forget -- are Muslims Muslims or Islamic fundamentalists?
Or if the new rule is that every person in every religion has to take responsibility for the very worst acts done in their name -- what tradition were you raised in?
Catholic?
Protestant?
pinchduckAug 20, 2010
Ugh, did I ever say that? Nope. Way to (try) to put words in my mouth, but you've failed. Are you always that horrible at constructing an argument? Allow me to assist you:
1) The mosque/community center is not at ground zero
2) The mosque/community center is on private property, and the owners have the right to do whatever they want
3) Throwing in the fact that there is a strip club in the neighborhood is a red herring, and does nothing to advance logical discourse on the subject
4) People who erroneously believe that the mosque is at ground zero are offended because they see it as a cultural validation of the attacks on 9/11. That's why my comment is pertinent. If it was Catholics, or Protestants, then people would be offended were a church being built at ground zero.
There is no connection between my post and your rebuttal question. I never said that there should be any sort of group responsibility or punishment. Never. Not once. There IS a connection between my rhetorical question, the article, and the subject at hand. Try to think, dude, before you type, it will do wonders for your career.
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
subductionAug 20, 2010
Your original post was wildly unclear as to your meaning.
In pursuit of a pithy comment you made it sound like you were equating the people building this community center with Islamic fundamentalists.
Since we're on the same side I will drop it here, and not point out any absurdity in you lecturing anyone about making themselves clear.
sndreamAug 20, 2010
Why is the article unfairly attacking stripper???
simonjester666Aug 20, 2010
Down here in the south moving any kind of worship facility near an adult nightclub would get it rezoned and shut down. If they are able to stop a mosque from being built there I want the same rights to stop a church from being built down here, especially the strip mall kind. How about if we let NO places of worship near ground zero, Maybe if the Christians hadn't started the crusades we wouldn't be in this position, Maybe if the Jews didn't maintain the ridiculous concept of "holy land ownership" this wouldn't be happening, All three groups are ruining this world each in their own ridiculous way.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
heliumflashAug 20, 2010
If strippers get banned from NYC because of this I'll be pissed.
baikal2002Aug 20, 2010
10 CLS
20 PRINT "Freedom of Religion"
30 PRINT "Any religion, NOT JUST YOURS!"
30 GOTO 10
Closed AccountAug 20, 2010
Correction: "Any religion, SO LONG AS IT'S OURS!"
umairaslamAug 20, 2010
is practicing stripping more bad for a hallowed ground or practicing a religion more bad ... i seriously dont understand where in America has a mosque ever been a problem ..
lithdovAug 20, 2010
The difference being: I don't remember stippers with ties to Hamas flying 747's into skyscrapers at any time in America's history. Someone want to fill me in, or is this just a stupid non sequitur defense of the insulting Cordoba House plan?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
rjeyAug 20, 2010
This thread is useless without pics.
madtechnologistAug 20, 2010
Jihadists suck balls!
isenborgAug 20, 2010
Number 1: Strippers rock
Number 2: There's a reason it's called the Cordoba Project.
From Wikipedia:
"Córdoba (Spanish pronunciation: [ˈkorðoβa]; also Cordova; Qurṭuba قرطبة) is a city in Andalusia, southern Spain, and the capital of the province of Córdoba. An Iberian and Roman city in ancient times, in the Middle Ages it was capital of an Islamic caliphate. During this time Cordoba was one of the largest cities in the world. It is claimed by some that the name Cordoba continues to represent...
WAIT FOR IT..>
...a symbol of Islamic conquest to many faithful Muslims around the world.[1]
marx2kAug 21, 2010
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%B3rdoba,_Spain
Care to link where you're pulling your version from?
marx2kAug 22, 2010
Still waiting for your source. You didn't just c/p that from some right-leaning wingnut site, did you?
isenborgAug 23, 2010
How interesting... I go back to Wikipedia, only to find
"a symbol of Islamic conquest to many faithful Muslims around the world.[1]"
...has been removed from the posting. How coincidental. Easier than burning a book.
If you don't believe it was there on Friday, you can see other people have reacted to it.
http://topsy.com/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Córdoba,_Spain
Just Google...
"a symbol of Islamic conquest to many faithful Muslims around the world.[1]"
...and you will see Google cache still remembers it was there, although the materials have now been sanitized. Tell you anything?
Welcome to the sharia-compliant internet.
isenborgAug 23, 2010
How funny. Facebook is still carrying the original, unsanitzed content. Check it out before it disappears too.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cordoba-Spain/108957072462073
isenborgAug 23, 2010
Are you scrubbing the site Marx2k? Sloppy, sloppy :- )
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cordoba-Spain/108957072462073#!/pages/Cordoba-Spain/108957072462073?v=wiki
marx2kAug 23, 2010
Perhaps people don't put up with Fox Newsian style bulls**t of the "it is claimed by some" type.
gerbil20Aug 20, 2010
The rise of the mighty strawman.
How many of those perished at Ground Zero were killed by strippers?
How many striptease joints are built to commemorate places of major victories against infidels?
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
zaphodbblxAug 21, 2010
I think you are misusing the strawman theory here(points for giving it a good try though!) lets not forget that Christendom has done EXACTLY what Islam had done in the past. conquer peoples replace their holy sites and change their holidays.. instead of Christmas have a happy YULE!
feldohAug 21, 2010
What I'm sorry? I couldn't hear you because I was too busy stereotypically thinking all you said was "BLALALALALALALALALALA" with a bomb strapped to your chest. It cannot be helped as you so astutely put it since I'm American and think you're part of the Taliban.
zaphodbblxAug 21, 2010
is just me but isn't a strip club on ground zero much more offensive
tomasiiAug 21, 2010
Don't see Christians flying planes in to many buildings lately, while thousands of other christians all over the world dance with glee.
isenborgAug 23, 2010
Oh no! Are you telling me the Fox News Bogeyman now controls Wikipedia? Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...
Nice whitewash attempt though. I'm sure you'll redact better next time.