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mathsciteachJun 30, 2010
Love Penn Jillette and his show!
pastedinalloveragainJun 30, 2010
Stop telling me what to do.
v3rtex7740Jun 30, 2010
NO, f**k THAT GUY.
Did an whole 9/11 hit piece without actually looking at any evidence or refuting any.
Just a whole bunch of insults and interviews with crazy people.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
travelsonicJun 30, 2010
[how carefully were you watching the show?]
macromorganJun 30, 2010
Did it not occur to you that maybe all of the people who believe that 9/11 was a government conspiracy are crazy?
sirswirlyJun 30, 2010
No I'm betting that didn't occur to him.
Because he's crazy.
tsuruchibrianJun 30, 2010
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
I think it makes much more sense that our government's bizarre reactions to some of the events on 9/11 were due in large part to their incompetence and/or as part of attempts to coverup their own incompetence.
I think a large part of why some things "just didn't look right", is because it was a fairly unique event. The way the planes crashed into the buildings (especially the pentagon) seemed suspicious because we don't have a lot of plane/building collisions in our memory to compare them to. We have not developed a good sense of intuition on the way missile strikes differ from airplane strikes on buildings, in the way we have for what car accidents look like for example. This is because car accidents are very common and just about every adult has seen or been in one.
Conspiracy theorists for the most part latch on to one anomaly (whether real or imagined) and draw a completely ridiculous conclusion from that. Many times these anomalies are worth investigating, but usually the explanations are pretty simple. Many times it turns out the original anomaly has been mischaracterized and is not an anomaly at all. Sometimes the reasons are as simple as eye witness testimony being completely wrong, or typos in official reports, etc.
Humans are fallible. They make mistakes. 9 times out of 10 a bad outcome is due to simple mistakes rather than intent.
yage2006Jul 1, 2010
At best the 911 truthers are Crazy or Dumb and at worse they are in it for the $$$$$ like Alex Jones.
And I can see you have not looked at evidence that proves the conspiracy to be total BS.
antithesisviJul 1, 2010
You deniers should check out Michael Ruppert. Former LAPD narcotics investigator, he is well-known for his work in exposing CIA drug connections. He puts together a pretty convincing case, as he says, what he would present in court, to prove we had detailed foreknowledge of the attacks. At the very least, our gov't allowed them to happen to reap the benefits in tightening their grip on our civil liberties.
But seriously fellas, you guys aren't idiots, you know how the CIA works. You really think those heartless bastards are above manipulating Arabs into killing themselves to heighten the level of fear amongst the American people? It's already well-known that fear is how you control a people, and for fear, you must have an enemy.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
tsuruchibrianJul 1, 2010
@AntithesisVI
I don't doubt that there are/were people in the government who are evil enough to do an "inside 9/11 type job", if they could. I don't think the US government is nearly organized and efficient enough to pull it off without any whistle-blowers.
I think a much more likely scenario is that our government was simply too incompetent to stop the attack in time, and has since used the opportunity to strip our civil liberties through legislation like FISA and the patriot act.
I think the Arabs were manipulated into killing themselves, but by their leaders back in the middle east. We have done so much s**t over there (which we tried and failed to cover up) that I don't think it's any mystery why a lot of them hate us enough to train suicide bombers to attack us.
I am not saying conspiracies don't happen. I am saying that the larger the scale of the conspiracy, it gets exponentially harder to keep it a secret. Furthermore, everyone involved with a 9/11 cover-up of the type you are describing would have to be willing to kill innocent civilians for the purpose of turning America into a police state. I don't think there are that many people who would not have second thoughts about doing this.
devilgoobAug 3, 2011
Isn't it true black ops is called that, because congress cannot be trying them without enough evidence..and without evidence, it's deniability.
Learn the law behind it. Learn we have black ops. Let it known there is "psyops" and let it be known they use "terrorist tactics" to acheive this.
They dont do a terrorist attack, they use those tactics that are deemed wrong by society, but of course the US needs its security and it may well be "a necessary evil"
digg...me...down...trying to be honest and not let my..
...EGO..
...get in the way of facts the government will supply you with yourself if you just ask.
antithesisviJul 7, 2010
Our standard response in the event of highjacked planes or commercial airlines that deviate from their flight plan is F-16s scrambled and on their wing in 15 minutes. This has happened countless times in the past, and suddenly failed on 9/11, not once, but at least three times. Apparently there was confusion because NORAD was running drills with the same hypothetical scenarios as was really happening, and strangely enough, Dick Cheney was in charge of NORAD that day.
It's similar to the 7/7 event in London a few years later. The drill became real. It creates confusion. Our military is far from incompetent, it simply seems that way because of Bush. Bush was the perfect face of tyranny. It seemed he was ignorant and a fool. Imagine if he had enacted the same policies, but instead had the demeanor of an angry, vengeful tyrant. People would have reacted much differently. Try to separate how much of our opinion of the government is based on actual events and policies, versus the appearance we are given of it.
Bush was a figurehead, a puppet, a face. He was not the decision-maker, he just gave the decisions made a naive appearance. Also, because of the way orders are handed down and unquestioningly followed throughout the government, and with the confusion of training exercises, it's possible to have thousands of people involved in an operation without any whistle-blowing. Remember, we're not talking about legislative departments and politicians, this is military. Something like at least 10,000 people were involved in the Manhattan Project. It's called compartmentalization. Each hand is unaware of what the other is doing, and why either are doing it at all.
tsuruchibrianAug 3, 2011
I work for a defense contractor. I don't think the military is as reactive as you think it is.
Just a few years ago the air force misplaced some nuclear weapons, only to discover that they were accidentally taken on a training mission.
The top 2 air force commanders were fired over this incident.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_United_States_Air_Force_nuclear_weapons_incident
I have heard the claim that "as soon as any deviation in the flight plan of a commercial plane, f-16's are ready to shoot them down in X minutes". I seriously doubt it's 15 minutes.
There is a lot of bureaucracy between the airlines, FAA, executive branch, president, military commanders, fighter pilots + crew, etc.
Maybe there were some incidents of f-16's being scrambled. I don't doubt that. I am aware of far more numerous examples of flight plan deviations that did not trigger any scrambling of fighter jets.
In regards to the Manhattan project, yes thousands of people were involved. But they all believed in what they were doing. Many knew they were working on an atomic bomb. They were not working to intentionally killing US citizens. It is easier to keep a secret when the people keeping the secret are not repulsed by it.
Even with the level of secrecy of the Manhattan project, the government/military could not keep several spies from infiltrating the project.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_spies
belebihJun 30, 2010
"We haven't tackled Scientology because Showtime doesn't want us to. Maybe they have deals with individual Scientologists —- I'm not sure."
More than likely. Scientologists are like Cylons that way.
"And we haven't tackled Islam because we have families."
Obvious, but no shame in that. No matter now much religious moderates may try to spin things, when people are afraid to even talk about your religion openly because they fear for their families' safety you can't blame people for being more than a little apprehensive about the "religion of peace".
diggeradoJun 30, 2010
Religion of peace. Feh.
Prove it! Let all the Muslim countries band together to hunt down and destroy the terrorists.... still waiting....
marx2kJun 30, 2010
Just like all Christian countries band together to hunt down and destroy Christian terrorists? Oh wait...
ubitendoJun 30, 2010
diggerado, why don't you be a real man and show them how it's done!
hipmanJun 30, 2010
"Christian terrorists"?.lol.
hipmanJun 30, 2010
Probably because they're in your head, marx.
digg2point0Jun 30, 2010
@hipman:
Christian terrorists aren't real...
Christian terrorists aren't real...
Christian terrorists aren't real...
Christian terrorists aren't real...
Christian terrorists aren't real...
Christian terrorists aren't real...
Christian terrorists aren't real...
http://www.google.com/search?q=christian+bombing+clinicComment is buried, click here to see the rest.
marx2kJun 30, 2010
Yes, all in my head..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism
avengingturnipJun 30, 2010
Apparently. Did you write that article yourself?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Christian_terrorism#This_Article_Sucks
crazedchemistJun 30, 2010
There is no comparing Christian terrorism to the amount of terrorism done by Muslims.
takamalakJun 30, 2010
True. I should be able to kill several people because there are some people who kill dozens!
diggeradoJun 30, 2010
My point, assh**es, is that our leadership and police don't support and openly promote the work of terrorists of any kind. The same can't be said for the Middle east where prominent leaders, rich people, etc. openly support terrorism.
bille3Jun 30, 2010
The Ayatollah is the supreme leader of Iran. I would call that a state that is fully under control by their church where murder of ones own family members is condoned.
Christians do not practice honor killings because their daughter talked to the wrong young man.
osr3vJun 30, 2010
@crazed Really? This isn't a complete list, but it's a start:
*As soon as Christianity was legal (315), more and more pagan temples
were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed.
*Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain.
*Examples of destroyed Temples the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea,
the Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha, Aphaka in Lebanon, the
Heliopolis.
*Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis
were famous as "temple destroyer." [DA468] *Pagan services became
punishable by death in 356. [DA468]
*Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed,
because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. [DA469]
According to Christian chroniclers he "followed meticulously all
Christian teachings..."
*In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights.
*In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed on
demand of Christian authorities. [DA466]
*The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to
pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a
Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.
Mission
*Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to
convert to Christianity, beheaded. [DO30]
*Peasants of Steding (Germany) unwilling to pay suffocating church
taxes between 5,000 and 11,000 men, women and children slain
5/27/1234 near Altenesch/Germany. [WW223]
*Battle of Belgrad 1456 80,000 Turks slaughtered. [DO235]
*15th century Poland 1019 churches and 17987 villages plundered by
Knights of the Order. Victims unknown. [DO30]
*16th and 17th century Ireland. English troops "pacified and
civilized" Ireland, where only Gaelic "wild Irish", "unreasonable
beasts lived without any knowledge of God or good manners, in common
of their goods, cattle, women, children and every other thing." One of
the more successful soldiers, a certain Humphrey Gilbert, half-brother
of Sir Walter Raleigh, ordered that "the heddes of all those (of what
sort soever thei were) which were killed in the daie, should be cutte
off from their bodies... and should bee laied on the ground by eche
side of the waie", which effort to civilize the Irish indeed caused
"greate terrour to the people when thei sawe the heddes of their dedde
fathers, brothers, children, kinsfolke, and freinds on the grounde".
Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage. [SH99,
225]
Crusades (1095-1291)
*First Crusade 1095 on command of pope Urban II. [WW11-41]
*Semlin/Hungary 6/24/96 thousands slain. Wieselburg/Hungary 6/12/96
thousands. [WW23] *9/9/96-9/26/96 Nikaia, Xerigordon (then turkish),
thousands respectively. [WW25-27]
*Until Jan 1098 a total of 40 capital cities and 200 castles conquered
(number of slain unknown) [WW30]
*After 6/3/98 Antiochia (then turkish) conquered, between 10,000 and
60,000 slain. 6/28/98 100,000 Turks (incl. women & children) killed.
[WW32-35]
Here the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in [the
enemy's] tents - save that they ran their lances through their
bellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres.
[EC60]
*Marra (Maraat an-numan) 12/11/98 thousands killed. Because of the
subsequent famine "the already stinking corpses of the enemies were
eaten by the Christians" said chronicler Albert Aquensis. [WW36]
*Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (jewish,
muslim, men, women, children). [WW37-40]
(In the words of one witness "there [in front of Solomon's temple]
was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood
of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people
marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of
gratitude")
*The Archbishop of Tyre, eye-witness, wrote "It was impossible to
look upon the vast numbers of the slain without horror; everywhere lay
fragments of human bodies, and the very ground was covered with the
blood of the slain. It was not alone the spectacle of headless bodies
and mutilated limbs strewn in all directions that roused the horror of
all who looked upon them. Still more dreadful was it to gaze upon the
victors themselves, dripping with blood from head to foot, an ominous
sight which brought terror to all who met them. It is reported that
within the Temple enclosure alone about ten thousand infidels
perished." [TG79]
*Christian chronicler Eckehard of Aura noted that "even the following
summer in all of palestine the air was polluted by the stench of
decomposition". One million victims of the first crusade alone. [WW41]
*Battle of Askalon, 8/12/1099. 200,000 heathens slaughtered "in the
name of Our Lord Jesus Christ". [WW45]
*Fourth crusade 4/12/1204 Constantinople sacked, number of victims
unknown, numerous thousands, many of them Christian. [WW141-148]
*Rest of Crusades in less detail until the fall of Akkon 1291
probably 20 million victims (in the Holy land and Arab/Turkish areas
alone). [WW224]
Note All figures according to contemporary (Christian) chroniclers.
Heretics
*Already in 385 C.E. the first Christians, the Spanish Priscillianus
and six followers, were beheaded for heresy in Trier/Germany [DO26]
*Manichaean heresy a crypto-Christian sect decent enough to practice
birth control (and thus not as irresponsible as faithful Catholics)
was exterminated in huge campaigns all over the Roman empire between
372 C.E. and 444 C.E. Numerous thousands of victims. [NC]
*Albigensians the first Crusade intended to slay other Christians.
[DO29]
The Albigensians (cathars = Christians allegedly that have all rarely
sucked) viewed themselves as good Christians, but would not accept
roman Catholic rule, and taxes, and prohibition of birth control. [NC]
Begin of violence on command of pope Innocent III (greatest single
pre-nazi mass murderer) in 1209. Beziérs (today France) 7/22/1209
destroyed, all the inhabitants were slaughtered. Victims (including
Catholics refusing to turn over their heretic neighbours and friends)
20,000-70,000. [WW179-181]
*Carcassonne 8/15/1209, thousands slain. Other cities followed.
[WW181]
*subsequent 20 years of war until nearly all Cathars (probably half
the population of the Languedoc, today southern France) were
exterminated. [WW183]
*After the war ended (1229) the Inquisition was founded 1232 to search
and destroy surviving/hiding heretics. Last Cathars burned at the
stake 1324. [WW183] *Estimated one million victims (cathar heresy
alone), [WW183]
*Other heresies Waldensians, Paulikians, Runcarians, Josephites, and
many others. Most of these sects exterminated, (I believe some
Waldensians live today, yet they had to endure 600 years of
persecution) I estimate at least hundred thousand victims (including
the Spanish inquisition but excluding victims in the New World).
*Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada alone allegedly responsible for 10,220
burnings. [DO28]
*John Huss, a critic of papal infallibility and indulgences, was
burned at the stake in 1415. [LI475-522]
*University professor B.Hubmaier burned at the stake 1538 in Vienna.
[DO59]
*Giordano Bruno, Dominican monk, after having been incarcerated for
seven years, was burned at the stake for heresy on the Campo dei Fiori
(Rome) on 2/17/1600.
Witches
*from the beginning of Christianity to 1484 probably more than several
thousand.
*in the era of witch hunting (1484-1750) according to modern scholars
several hundred thousand (about 80% female) burned at the stake or
hanged. [WV]
*incomplete list of documented cases
The Burning of Witches - A Chronicle of the Burning Times
Religious Wars
*15th century Crusades against Hussites, thousands slain. [DO30]
*1538 pope Paul III declared Crusade against apostate England and all
English as slaves of Church (fortunately had not power to go into
action). [DO31]
*1568 Spanish Inquisition Tribunal ordered extermination of 3 million
rebels in (then Spanish) Netherlands. Thousands were actually slain.
[DO31]
*1572 In France about 20,000 Huguenots were killed on command of pope
Pius V. Until 17th century 200,000 flee. [DO31]
*17th century Catholics slay Gaspard de Coligny, a Protestant leader.
After murdering him, the Catholic mob mutilated his body, "cutting off
his head, his hands, and his genitals... and then dumped him into the
river [...but] then, deciding that it was not worthy of being food for
the fish, they hauled it out again [... and] dragged what was left ...
to the gallows of Montfaulcon, 'to be meat and carrion for maggots and
crows'." [SH191]
*17th century Catholics sack the city of Magdeburg/Germany roughly
30,000 Protestants were slain. "In a single church fifty women were
found beheaded," reported poet Friedrich Schiller, "and infants still
sucking the breasts of their lifeless mothers." [SH191]
*17th century 30 years' war (Catholic vs. Protestant) at least 40% of
population decimated, mostly in Germany. [DO31-32]
Jews
*Already in the 4th and 5th centuries synagogues were burned by
Christians. Number of Jews slain unknown.
*In the middle of the fourth century the first synagogue was destroyed
on command of bishop Innocentius of Dertona in Northern Italy. The
first synagogue known to have been burned down was near the river
Euphrat, on command of the bishop of Kallinikon in the year 388.
[DA450]
*17. Council of Toledo 694 Jews were enslaved, their property
confiscated, and their children forcibly baptized. [DA454]
*The Bishop of Limoges (France) in 1010 had the cities' Jews, who
would not convert to Christianity, expelled or killed. [DA453]
*First Crusade Thousands of Jews slaughtered 1096, maybe 12.000
total. Places Worms 5/18/1096, Mainz 5/27/1096 (1100 persons),
Cologne, Neuss, Altenahr, Wevelinghoven, Xanten, Moers, Dortmund,
Kerpen, Trier, Metz, Regensburg, Prag and others (All locations
Germany except Metz/France, Prag/Czech) [EJ]
*Second Crusade 1147. Several hundred Jews were slain in Ham, Sully,
Carentan, and Rameru (all locations in France). [WW57]
*Third Crusade English Jewish communities sacked 1189/90. [DO40]
*Fulda/Germany 1235 34 Jewish men and women slain. [DO41]
*1257, 1267 Jewish communities of London, Canterbury, Northampton,
Lincoln, Cambridge, and others exterminated. [DO41]
*1290 in Bohemian (Poland) allegedly 10,000 Jews killed. [DO41]
*1337 Starting in Deggendorf/Germany a Jew-killing craze reaches 51
towns in Bavaria, Austria, Poland. [DO41]
*1348 All Jews of Basel/Switzerland and Strasbourg/France (two
thousand) burned. [DO41]
*1349 In more than 350 towns in Germany all Jews murdered, mostly
burned alive (in this one year more Jews were killed than Christians
in 200 years of ancient Roman persecution of Christians). [DO42]
*1389 In Prag 3,000 Jews were slaughtered. [DO42]
*1391 Seville's Jews killed (Archbishop Martinez leading). 4,000 were
slain, 25,000 sold as slaves. [DA454] Their identification was made
easy by the brightly colored "badges of shame" that all jews above the
age of ten had been forced to wear.
*1492 In the year Columbus set sail to conquer a New World, more than
150,000 Jews were expelled from Spain, many died on their way
6/30/1492. [MM470-476]
*1648 Chmielnitzki massacres In Poland about 200,000 Jews were slain.
[DO43]
(I feel sick ...) this goes on and on, century after century, right
into the kilns of Auschwitz.
Native Peoples
*Beginning with Columbus (a former slave trader and would-be Holy
Crusader) the conquest of the New World began, as usual understood as
a means to propagate Christianity.
*Within hours of landfall on the first inhabited island he encountered
in the Caribbean, Columbus seized and carried off six native people
who, he said, "ought to be good servants ... [and] would easily be
made Christians, because it seemed to me that they belonged to no
religion." [SH200]
While Columbus described the Indians as "idolators" and "slaves, as
many as [the Crown] shall order," his pal Michele de Cuneo, Italian
nobleman, referred to the natives as "beasts" because "they eat when
they are hungry," and made love "openly whenever they feel like it."
[SH204-205]
*On every island he set foot on, Columbus planted a cross, "making the
declarations that are required" - the requerimiento - to claim the
ownership for his Catholic patrons in Spain. And "nobody objected." If
the Indians refused or delayed their acceptance (or understanding),
the requerimiento continued
"I certify to you that, with the help of God, we shall powerfully
enter in your country and shall make war against you ... and shall
subject you to the yoke and obedience of the Church ... and shall do
you all mischief that we can, as to vassals who do not obey and refuse
to receive their lord and resist and contradict him." [SH66]
*Likewise in the words of John Winthrop, first governor of
Massachusetts Bay Colony "justifieinge the undertakeres of the
intended Plantation in New England ... to carry the Gospell into those
parts of the world, ... and to raise a Bulworke against the kingdome
of the Ante-Christ." [SH235]
*In average two thirds of the native population were killed by
colonist-imported smallpox before violence began. This was a great
sign of "the marvelous goodness and providence of God" to the
Christians of course, e.g. the Governor of the Massachusetts Bay
Colony wrote in 1634, as "for the natives, they are near all dead of
the smallpox, so as the Lord hath cleared our title to what we
possess." [SH109,238]
*On Hispaniola alone, on Columbus Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
alanlivingstonJun 30, 2010
@osr3v
tl;dr
osr3vJun 30, 2010
Wow. Never posted so much I ran out of room before. Have some more:
*On Hispaniola alone, on Columbus visits, the native population
(Arawak), a rather harmless and happy people living on an island of
abundant natural resources, a literal paradise, soon mourned 50,000
dead. [SH204]
*The surviving Indians fell victim to rape, murder, enslavement and
spanish raids.
*As one of the culprits wrote "So many Indians died that they could
not be counted, all through the land the Indians lay dead everywhere.
The stench was very great and pestiferous." [SH69]
*The indian chief Hatuey fled with his people but was captured and
burned alive. As "they were tying him to the stake a Franciscan friar
urged him to take Jesus to his heart so that his soul might go to
heaven, rather than descend into hell. Hatuey replied that if heaven
was where the Christians went, he would rather go to hell." [SH70]
*What happened to his people was described by an eyewitness
"The Spaniards found pleasure in inventing all kinds of odd cruelties
... They built a long gibbet, long enough for the toes to touch the
ground to prevent strangling, and hanged thirteen [natives] at a time
in honor of Christ Our Saviour and the twelve Apostles... then, straw
was wrapped around their torn bodies and they were burned alive."
[SH72]
Or, on another occasion
"The Spaniards cut off the arm of one, the leg or hip of another, and
from some their heads at one stroke, like butchers cutting up beef and
mutton for market. Six hundred, including the cacique, were thus slain
like brute beasts...Vasco [de Balboa] ordered forty of them to be torn
to pieces by dogs." [SH83]
*The "island's population of about eight million people at the time of
Columbus's arrival in 1492 already had declined by a third to a half
before the year 1496 was out." Eventually all the island's natives
were exterminated, so the Spaniards were "forced" to import slaves
from other caribbean islands, who soon suffered the same fate. Thus
"the Caribbean's millions of native people [were] thereby effectively
liquidated in barely a quarter of a century". [SH72-73] "In less than
the normal lifetime of a single human being, an entire culture of
millions of people, thousands of years resident in their homeland, had
been exterminated." [SH75]
*"And then the Spanish turned their attention to the mainland of
Mexico and Central America. The slaughter had barely begun. The
exquisite city of Tenochtitlán [Mexico city] was next." [SH75]
*Cortez, Pizarro, De Soto and hundreds of other spanish conquistadors
likewise sacked southern and mesoamerican civilizations in the name of
Christ (De Soto also sacked Florida). *"When the 16th century ended,
some 200,000 Spaniards had moved to the Americas. By that time
probably more than 60,000,000 natives were dead." [SH95]
Of course no different were the founders of what today is the US of
America.
*Although none of the settlers would have survived winter without
native help, they soon set out to expel and exterminate the Indians.
Warfare among (north American) Indians was rather harmless, in
comparison to European standards, and was meant to avenge insults
rather than conquer land. In the words of some of the pilgrim fathers
"Their Warres are farre less bloudy...", so that there usually was "no
great slawter of nether side". Indeed, "they might fight seven yeares
and not kill seven men." What is more, the Indians usually spared
women and children. [SH111]
*In the spring of 1612 some English colonists found life among the
(generally friendly and generous) natives attractive enough to leave
Jamestown - "being idell ... did runne away unto the Indyans," - to
live among them (that probably solved a sex problem).
"Governor Thomas Dale had them hunted down and executed 'Some he
apointed (sic) to be hanged Some burned Some to be broken upon wheles,
others to be staked and some shott to deathe'." [SH105] Of course
these elegant measures were restricted for fellow englishmen "This
was the treatment for those who wished to act like Indians. For those
who had no choice in the matter, because they were the native people
of Virginia" methods were different "when an Indian was accused by an
Englishman of stealing a cup and failing to return it, the English
response was to attack the natives in force, burning the entire
community" down. [SH105]
*On the territory that is now Massachusetts the founding fathers of
the colonies were committing genocide, in what has become known as the
"Peqout War". The killers were New England Puritan Christians,
refugees from persecution in their own home country England.
*When however, a dead colonist was found, apparently killed by
Narragansett Indians, the Puritan colonists wanted revenge. Despite
the Indian chief's pledge they attacked.
Somehow they seem to have lost the idea of what they were after,
because when they were greeted by Pequot Indians (long-time foes of
the Narragansetts) the troops nevertheless made war on the Pequots and
burned their villages.
The puritan commander-in-charge John Mason after one massacre wrote
"And indeed such a dreadful Terror did the Almighty let fall upon
their Spirits, that they would fly from us and run into the very
Flames, where many of them perished ... God was above them, who
laughed his Enemies and the Enemies of his People to Scorn, making
them as a fiery Oven ... Thus did the Lord judge among the Heathen,
filling the Place with dead Bodies" men, women, children. [SH113-114]
*So "the Lord was pleased to smite our Enemies in the hinder Parts,
and to give us their land for an inheritance". [SH111].
*Because of his readers' assumed knowledge of Deuteronomy, there was
no need for Mason to quote the words that immediately follow
"Thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth. But thou shalt utterly
destroy them..." (Deut 20)
*Mason's comrade Underhill recalled how "great and doleful was the
bloody sight to the view of the young soldiers" yet reassured his
readers that "sometimes the Scripture declareth women and children
must perish with their parents". [SH114]
*Other Indians were killed in successful plots of poisoning. The
colonists even had dogs especially trained to kill Indians and to
devour children from their mothers breasts, in the colonists' own
words "blood Hounds to draw after them, and Mastives to seaze them."
(This was inspired by spanish methods of the time)
In this way they continued until the extermination of the Pequots was
near. [SH107-119]
*The surviving handful of Indians "were parceled out to live in
servitude. John Endicott and his pastor wrote to the governor asking
for 'a share' of the captives, specifically 'a young woman or girle
and a boy if you thinke good'." [SH115]
*Other tribes were to follow the same path.
*Comment the Christian exterminators "God's Will, which will at last
give us cause to say How Great is His Goodness! and How Great is his
Beauty!"
"Thus doth the Lord Jesus make them to bow before him, and to lick the
Dust!" [TA]
*Like today, lying was OK to Christians then. "Peace treaties were
signed with every intention to violate them when the Indians 'grow
secure uppon (sic) the treatie', advised the Council of State in
Virginia, 'we shall have the better Advantage both to surprise them, &
cutt downe theire Corne'." [SH106]
*In 1624 sixty heavily armed Englishmen cut down 800 defenseless
Indian men, women and children. [SH107]
*In a single massacre in "King Philip's War" of 1675 and 1676 some
"600 Indians were destroyed. A delighted Cotton Mather, revered pastor
of the Second Church in Boston, later referred to the slaughter as a
'barbeque'." [SH115]
*To summarize Before the arrival of the English, the western Abenaki
people in New Hampshire and Vermont had numbered 12,000. Less than
half a century later about 250 remained alive - a destruction rate of
98%. The Pocumtuck people had numbered more than 18,000, fifty years
later they were down to 920 - 95% destroyed. The Quiripi-Unquachog
people had numbered about 30,000, fifty years later they were down to
1500 - 95% destroyed. The Massachusetts people had numbered at least
44,000, fifty years later barely 6000 were alive - 81% destroyed.
[SH118] These are only a few examples of the multitude of tribes
living before Christian colonists set their foot on the New World. All
this was before the smallpox epidemics of 1677 and 1678 had occurred.
And the carnage was not over then.
*All the above was only the beginning of the European colonization, it
was before the frontier age actually had begun.
*A total of maybe more than 150 million Indians (of both Americas)
were destroyed in the period of 1500 to 1900, as an average two thirds
by smallpox and other epidemics, that leaves some 50 million killed
directly by violence, bad treatment and slavery.
*In many countries, such as Brazil, and Guatemala, this continues even
today.
More Notable Events in US history
*Reverend Solomon Stoddard, one of New England's most esteemed
religious leaders, in "1703 formally proposed to the Massachusetts
Governor that the colonists be given the financial wherewithal to
purchase and train large packs of dogs 'to hunt Indians as they do
bears'." [SH241]
*Massacre of Sand Creek, Colorado 11/29/1864. Colonel John Chivington,
a former Methodist minister and still elder in the church ("I long to
be wading in gore") had a Cheyenne village of about 600, mostly women
and children, gunned down despite the chiefs' waving with a white
flag 400-500 killed.
From an eye-witness account "There were some thirty or forty squaws
collected in a hole for protection; they sent out a little girl about
six years old with a white flag on a stick; she had not proceeded but
a few steps when she was shot and killed. All the squaws in that hole
were afterwards killed ..." [SH131]
*By the 1860s, "in Hawai'i the Reverend Rufus Anderson surveyed the
carnage that by then had reduced those islands' native population by
90 percent or more, and he declined to see it as tragedy; the expected
total die-off of the Hawaiian population was only natural, this
missionary said, somewhat equivalent to 'the amputation of diseased
members of the body'." [SH244]
20th Century Church Atrocities
*Catholic extermination camps
Surpisingly few know that Nazi extermination camps in World War II
were by no means the only ones in Europe at the time. In the years
1942-1943 also in Croatia existed numerous extermination camps, run by
Catholic Ustasha under their dictator Ante Paveliç, a practising
Catholic and regular visitor to the then pope. There were even
concentration camps exclusively for children!
In these camps - the most notorious was Jasenovac, headed by a
Franciscan friar - orthodox-Christian serbians (and a substantial
number of Jews) were murdered. Like the Nazis the Catholic Ustasha
burned their victims in kilns, alive (the Nazis were decent enough to
have their victims gassed first). But most of the victims were simply
stabbed, slain or shot to death, the number of them being estimated
between 300,000 and 600,000, in a rather tiny country. Many of the
killers were Franciscan friars. The atrocities were appalling enough
to induce bystanders of the Nazi "Sicherheitsdient der SS", watching,
to complain about them to Hitler (who did not listen). The pope knew
about these events and did nothing to prevent them. [MV]
*Catholic terror in Vietnam
In 1954 Vietnamese freedom fighters - the Viet Minh - had finally
defeated the French colonial government in North Vietnam, which by
then had been supported by U.S. funds amounting to more than $2
billion. Although the victorious assured religious freedom to all
(most non-buddhist Vietnamese were Catholics), due to huge
anticommunist propaganda campaigns many Catholics fled to the South.
With the help of Catholic lobbies in Washington and Cardinal Spellman,
the Vatican's spokesman in U.S. politics, who later on would call the
U.S. forces in Vietnam "Soldiers of Christ", a scheme was concocted to
prevent democratic elections which could have brought the communist
Viet Minh to power in the South as well, and the fanatic Catholic Ngo
Dinh Diem was made president of South Vietnam. [MW16ff]
Diem saw to it that U.S. aid, food, technical and general assistance
was given to Catholics alone, Buddhist individuals and villages were
ignored or had to pay for the food aids which were given to Catholics
for free. The only religious denomination to be supported was Roman
Catholicism.
The Vietnamese McCarthyism turned even more vicious than its American
counterpart. By 1956 Diem promulgated a presidential order which read
"Individuals considered dangerous to the national defense and common
security may be confined by executive order, to a concentration camp."
Supposedly to fight communism, thousands of buddhist protesters and
monks were imprisoned in "detention camps." Out of protest dozens of
buddhist teachers - male and female - and monks poured gasoline over
themselves and burned themselves. (Note that Buddhists burned
themselves in comparison Christians tend to burn others). Meanwhile
some of the prison camps, which in the meantime were filled with
Protestant and even Catholic protesters as well, had turned into
no-nonsense death camps. It is estimated that during this period of
terror (1955-1960) at least 24,000 were wounded - mostly in street
riots - 80,000 people were executed, 275,000 had been detained or
tortured, and about 500,000 were sent to concentrComment is buried, click here to see the rest.
avengingturnipJun 30, 2010
Nice cut and paste from an unsourced website, osr3v.
inactiveuserJun 30, 2010
WTF? Were you like crying when you wrote that?
justinb122Jun 30, 2010
I think i saw something about Jesus and a duck.
crazedchemistJun 30, 2010
@osr3v
I'm not even going to read any of that, completely unreadable on digg. I'm talking about here and now, in the past 20 years. OK I read the one from 1954, highly debatable on whether that is even terrorism. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
digg2point0Jun 30, 2010
@CrazedChemist: http://www.google.com/search?q=christian+bombing+clinic
s73v3rJun 30, 2010
@CrazedChemist: What about that guy who shot up the Holocaust museum? Or the guy who shot the abortion doctor?
pintomp3Jun 30, 2010
The myth of Muslim support for terror
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0223/p09s01-coop.html
crazedchemistJun 30, 2010
I know there is christian terrorism. I said there is no COMPARING them in terms of amount. You keep searching for christian + bombing + clinic though, I'm sure you will find the other side of the coin sometime soon.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
cygnus2112Jun 30, 2010
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there was a huge manhunt on for Eric Rudolph and he's now in prison. The culture looks on him as a criminal, a terrorist, a coward. Same goes for McVey, the Unabomber, the DC snipers, etc etc. On the other hand, a certain religion's terrorists are martyrs, heroes, idols. I think that's what people are talking about.
mweatherJun 30, 2010
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but there was a huge manhunt on for Eric Rudolph and he's now in prison."
There's a huge manhunt on in Muslim countries for scores of terrorists. You didn't think we filled up Gitmo ourselves, did you?
kellydehnJun 30, 2010
@osr3 you conveniently forgot to add this...
The crusades were the result of the reaction to over four centuries of relentless Islamic Jihad, which had wiped out over 50% of all the Christians in the world and conquered over 60% of all the Christian lands on earth.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
ineffablepolkJun 30, 2010
Ignoring the debate of whether or not it is a religion of peace for a moment, you want them to prove they are peaceful by hunting down and destroying people?
photolingerJul 1, 2010
Muslim. US Army. Deployed.
I'm doing my part.
Your turn.
marx2kJul 1, 2010
photolinger. f**k yeah.
solistusJul 1, 2010
kellydehn: um, not even close to accurate. The First Crusade was launched in 1096 at the request of the Byzantine emperor who wanted to retake Jerusalem from the Turks. Jerusalem had been under Muslim rule for almost 500 years at this point. Before then, it was Jewish and then Roman control. Pagan Rome conquered and began brutally de-Judaising the city in the first century. Jewish revolts briefly retook the city a couple times between the first and seventh centuries AD; through the rest of that time, Jews were brutally repressed by Pagan and then Christian Rome until they were finally banned from the city entirely by Constantine in the 4th century (around the time that the first Christian churches were built also on Constantine's orders).
Jerusalem remained under Roman (and eventually Byzantine after the fall of the unified Empire) control until the 7th century, when it changed hands repeatedly between the Sassanids, Byzantines and the Islamic Caliphate. In 638, the Caliphate took the city under Muslim control, lifted the ban on Jews living and worshiping in the city and allowed Christian holy sites such as the Church of the Holy Sepulchre to remain as well.
When the Crusaders took the city in 1099, they massacred most of the Jewish and Muslim residents. The city's population dropped by more than half. The Crusaders established the Kingdom of Jerusalem which continued repressing non-Christians until Saladin retook the city in 1187, once again opening it to all three Abrahamic faiths. Then it was sacked by the Tatars and Mongols a couple times before being restored to prosperity and religious freedom by - Christians? - nope, Suleiman the Great.
If you're going to spew your ignorant, revisionist history all over the interwebs, try not to pick one of the best examples of Islamic *tolerance* during their Golden Age to distort and misrepresent, at least while history majors happen to be present. Your ass, here it is.
cmackattackJul 1, 2010
@diggeradodiggerado
"My point, assh**es, is that our leadership and police don't support and openly promote the work of terrorists of any kind."
INACCURATE. THE US SUPPORTS ISRAEL. AND, MANY WOULD SAY THE US THEMSELVES TODAY ARE TERRORISTS. HELL, THE US WAS BORN FROM THE TERRORISM OF NATIVE AMERICAS AND STEALING THEIR LAND. WE, THE US, PRACTICALLY INVENTED MODERN DAY TERRORISM.
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
solistusJul 2, 2010
cmackattack: you could just go for the trump card and, you know, point out that the US trained and funded Bin Laden himself to commit acts of terrorism in the Soviet Union. The only thing he did to 'betray' us and 'become' evil was to start murdering civilians in the wrong countries. Back when it was us versus the godless commies and he was more interested in murdering them than us, we had no problem with his terrorist tactics; in fact, we're the ones that taught them to him and funded him to teach them to more of his disciples. We also sold biological and chemical weapons to Saddam and greenlit his war with Iran - again, we were fine with using WMDs to massacre civilians, but he massacred the wrong population so we turned against him.
We also still routinely pick sides in bloody ethnic conflicts and arm our chosen side to the teeth. Our primary goal may not be to encourage terrorism but you can damn well bet plenty of American weapons are being used to commit atrocities around the world as we speak.
Islamic Terrorism - one of the few commodities in the modern world that was Made in the USA! In all seriousness, though, it's absolutely ridiculous for us Americans to pretend we've kept our hands clean. The CIA did a ton of really f**ked up s**t during the Cold War that we know about, and we also know they destroyed lots of evidence of their own illegal activities (for example, the vast majority of the records of Project MKULTRA were destroyed before ever becoming declassified; everything we know about MKULTRA comes from the tiny proportion of records that were left).
cygnus2112Jul 2, 2010
@MWeather: "There's a huge manhunt on in Muslim countries for scores of terrorists. You didn't think we filled up Gitmo ourselves, did you?"
Huge manhunt by who? You mean the Taliban is prosecuting the terrorists in their organization, self policing their society so that the populace is happier and safer?
Oh.. that's right. They memorialize and make their martyrs into heroes. It's left to others to clean up the bodies.
lamiaconfitorJul 9, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
goweigusJun 30, 2010
so PTBS would say the Islam as a religion of peace is Bulls**t?
trainofthought6Jun 30, 2010
They just did...yeah
funklyJun 30, 2010
they tackled religion... and yes its all bulls**t.. but if your a believer.. your infallible... so its a moot argument...
tbroJun 30, 2010
you're
sanmanJun 30, 2010
@Goweigus,
not directly - they have families
goweigusJul 1, 2010
yeah I realize that i was really just trying to make a bit of a joke
it is unfortunate that they can be that worried about Islam and their kids considering all the other things/people they were afraid to throw their show at
identifiedlogoJun 30, 2010
Thats lame "And we haven't tackled Islam because we have families."
the south park guys don't have families????????
This is cowardice. Thanks for propagating the idiocy Penn&Teller.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
shazbotbenJun 30, 2010
Propagating the idiocy would be silencing those who actually are willing to take the risk *cough*ComedyCentral/Viacom*cough*.
buzamanJun 30, 2010
I can imagine if P&T did an Islam show they would go further than SP.
identifiedlogoJun 30, 2010
That wasn't my point. Penn& TEller as public figures as individuals shouldn't have admitted they were scared of Islamists when living in America. Its not even about commedycentral, viacom... thats all the islamists need to do and say the thing they are doing in Europe.
They are in public figure and the islamists are listening. thats a bad sign.
Matt&Tray didnt care about ComedyCentral when they did the episode but their integrity. and NothingHappened. If individuals run away from this, its going to escalate then people are going to get killed like whats happening in Europe.
sprucecabooseJun 30, 2010
@aidentifiedlogo: Some people think it is worth it to make a satire at the risk of personal injury. Some people don't. You can hardly call someone a coward for that from your computer chair.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
Well, seeing as how Penn & Teller perform live every night in a large auditorium, I would prefer they didn't piss off the terrorists and put thousands of other lives at risk. The last thing we need is an assh**e bomber targeting them in a packed, public place.
That being said, I think everyone should speak out against the numerous problems within any religion -- even (and especially) Islam.
hoghugJul 1, 2010
Indeed, it's easy to snipe at two public figures for not doing what we wish we had the guts to do. Tell me, identifiedlogo, knowing about the death threats, planned assassinations, attempted arson, etc against the Swedish cartoonist who drew Mohamed, would you have the guts to do the same if you knew you'd likely receive the same response?
As Megalo mentioned, one comment up, you didn't even use your real name to post comments on a (no offense, guys) piddly message board. Why not? The liberation/freedom of anonymity? Well, those guys don't have that luxury.
identifiedlogoJul 1, 2010
Are you guys mad! I am using a nick name. I am just a regular person. I dont mind a regular person getting scared of the Islamists, but when a public figure says something like that it represents the opinion of a large number of people.
I will gladly give you my name and address, if it serves a point; but it doesn't. And why are you asking for my name, when you have the full address of people like Tray and Matt?
To tell you the truth I have friends from Egypt, Saudi...in my school. I have told them clearly that, the islamist rhetoric is stupid..and they agree. They know. Its not all Muslims. But they cant say anything. just a few rabid dogs we have to stop before they infect people in the US. Europe is a lost cause. Save the US. Defend free speech.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
scientologists... cylons... it makes too much sense
particleman420Jun 30, 2010
Scielons
solistusJul 1, 2010
Pfft. Cylons believe only in the One True God, heathen.
graemeeJun 30, 2010
They're saying the extremists and Scientology would bomb them. One with explosives and the other with lawyers.
slackdragonJun 30, 2010
At least with suicide bombers, all your problems are instantly over as you cease to exist in a blast. With lawyer bombing, you're life is ruined for the remainder of your living.
I'm a "rip the band-aid off" quick kind of guy. I don't like lingering misery. So in some ways, Scientology having a bead on your forehead is worse than Islamic radicals.
atticus8Jun 30, 2010
"Hello Slackdragon, I'm Random Religious assh**e. I'm here to administer religious justice, but I'll give you a choice! I have both a bomb and a subpoena: which do you want me to use on you?"
"Hmm, I see it's an unfortunate day for me, then. Well, I'll guess I'll take the bomb. Just blow me up and kill me. I'm a 'rip the band aid off quickly' kind of guy, you see."
"Interesting. But what if the bomb leaves you flayed alive with every nerve burning, your face permanently and hideously disfigured, and your legs irreparably burned?"
"I choose to ignore that possibility. Bomb please."
"But what about your family? Don't you want your parents to know you are and will be ok? What about your wife, your friends, or even your kids? Isn't it better to spend a lifetime with them?"
"No. No it is not. Sure, I'd have the most beloved people in my life for the rest of a probable long life, but I'd also have to deal with a lawsuit, and lawsuits suck, ya know? Bomb please."
"But what if the judge just dismissed the suit? If you had a good lawyer and got the suit dismissed, it would never bother you again."
"Yeah, but you have to pay lawyers, and you never know how that's gonna turn out. And uncertainty sucks. Better certain death or certain agonizing maiming."
"Interesting reasoning. You know, you're the first person this decade to pick the bomb over the lawsuit, probably because it's a f**king stupid choice."
"Well, I treasure my self-image as a rebel that strays from the pack."
"Indeed."
[BOOM]
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
@Slackdragon... I would rather be alive and broke than dead and wealthy. If you don't fight the lawyers, it can be over quickly.
areallygoodnameJul 1, 2010
How about a compromise. They sue me and i can be the one with the bomb.
nthammerJul 8, 2010
ya that's what i would do
trichomonasJun 30, 2010
The majority of Muslims are peaceful and would never even think of sending death threats to anyone.
The majority of Muslims are openminded and accepting of others. Read the following article from the same site:
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/06/29/aziz-and-her-dignity.html
How many Christian's would allow transgendered individuals to come and sing at their weddings? Note, when they come, it's not a formal performance. They just move in and around the crowd while singing and collect money.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
giveerJun 30, 2010
"How many Christian's would allow transgendered individuals to come and sing at their weddings"
I would. I don't know if that was a legitimate question, but if it helps break (frustratingly true) stereotypes, I just thought I'd say. And if it helps the stereotypes even further, I'm performing in the Comedy Gala for Pride week in Toronto on Friday. Totally straight and loves my gay friends.
mrwalshJun 30, 2010
These aren't the droids you're looking for.
peterfileJun 30, 2010
"How many Christian's would allow transgendered individuals to come and sing at their weddings?"
What a closed minded and stereotypical thing to say.
tertiusregentJun 30, 2010
Well, considering that even governments (note plural) of the world's more powerful nations are also as hesitant critizing Muslim issues in the way they never do with Christians, I think you lost your argument before you tried to make your point.
infinitysnatchJun 30, 2010
It doesn't matter if the 'majority' is peaceful. It only takes one to kill you.
ethyladdedJun 30, 2010
"The majority of Muslims are peaceful and would never even think of sending death threats to anyone."
In Russian roulette, a majority of the cylinders in the revolver are empty. Does that make you feel so much safer holding the gun to your head?
trichomonasJun 30, 2010
@giveer: I'm a Muslim living in Toronto and I have gay friends too. My point wasn't to bash Christians; it was to show that there are differences between the 2 cultures. There are some things Muslims are more open-minded about than Christians and vice versa.
@PeterFile: Yes it's very stereotypical. Just like saying Islam is a violent religion just because of a few radical fundamentalists. The people delivering the death threats, and rioting in the streets over small things are fundamentalists or have been stirred up and misled by fundamentalists. They are far and few and do not reflect what the majority of Muslims believe.
@TertiusRegent: Just like certain Western governments are hesitant to criticize Israel's actions? Should I believe that all Jews are violent because of the commando drop on the Turkish flotilla or what the Israeli government has been doing for decades in Gaza? Governments have political and monetary motives for what they say that usually have nothing to do with morality.
@InfinitySnatch: You mean like that abortion doctor that was shot to death in front of his own clinic by a radical Christian?
giveerJun 30, 2010
@Tricho..
"I'm a Muslim living in Toronto..." Whee! really? Well if you trip and fall and end up at the Panasonic theatre on Yonge street at 8pm on Friday, I'm in the really big choir.. :) http://www.pridetoronto.com/events/panasonic_fri.html
Later!
putz85erJun 30, 2010
@tricho
Your argument about the commando drop is flawed. They were swinging clubs at them as they were dropping in like the Israelis were pinatas. They obviously have as flawed of logic as you because if you swing something at me and i have a gun i am going to shoot you. They do have an embargo on the country that the goods were going to and so they were going to search it regardless of what those people wanted.
trichomonasJun 30, 2010
@putz85er: International waters...Israel had no right to be there. Search whatever you want in your own waters but not international waters. The commandos were basically acting like pirates. So yes, if pirates attack my ship then I'm going to defend it.
Also, I like how I'm being buried for saying the majority of Muslims are not fundamentalists...
Look up all the terrorist groups in the world and compare their members to the # of Muslims int he world (1.1 Billion)...it is a very very small %.
oxidaneJul 2, 2010
dude, you're named after an STD.
tarantulusJul 9, 2010
@ Giveer and Tricho
genuine question, how do you deal with the cognitive dissonance of loving something that your religious texts and leaders tell you to hate?
j3oomerangJun 30, 2010
This is nothing more than fear mongering. It seems to be a trend in the news for people to be afraid about speaking out against Islam. Wake up people, stop letting the headlines control your perception. Do you really think the majority of muslims want to bomb people? The more you fall for this s**t, the more your privacy and freedoms will be disrespected by your own government.
Religion makes me f**king nauseous. I mean there is nothing left to debate about. Major religions have been proven wrong by science on multiple accounts, and they are full of bulls**t that isn't philosophically or logically sound.
sugarkangJun 30, 2010
no, not the majority. just one or two people, because that's all it takes.
tyhoJul 1, 2010
I read the comments specifically looking for the angry moron that equates Islam with all other religions.
No one worries about offending Christians. Exhibit A is your bigoted post.
All religions are not created equal.
"Major religions have been proven wrong by science on multiple accounts"
How exactly?
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
hoghugJul 1, 2010
@tyho
Evolution. 4 corners of the earth. 7 days of creation. The impossibility of the flood/ark story. Just for starters.
brettleftyJul 1, 2010
I'm sure the majority of Muslims don't want to bomb people, but I'd be willing to bet that per capita more Muslims want to bomb people than any other mainstream religion on the planet.
superkendallJul 2, 2010
Of course the majority of muslims are peaceful.
But if you look at recent terrorist acts, probably 90% of them involve Muslims. That too is a reality, which you cannot afford to ignore.
It doesn't mean 90% of Muslims are dangerous, but it does mean we should not pretend like any other random religion has members just as dangerous.
afinJun 30, 2010
of course they are scared to speak about islam if cartoonist get death threats for making a drawing... radicals are not very smart
frisbinatorJul 10, 2010
Wow, Penn and Teller can do no wrong in your eyes can they
jedimasterhornJun 30, 2010
they attacked christianity, so i'm content. scifags and islam nuts are small potatoes by comparison.
alanocuJun 30, 2010
Because Christians are flying jumbo jets into skyscrapers and blowing themselves up for Jesus? Small potatoes you say?
evildemonicJun 30, 2010
No, but they are assassinating doctors and blowing up clinics...currently. To look at their past behavior, learn about the Crusades.
halyardJun 30, 2010
I think the difference is a globally funded organization with training camps with intensive training in weapons, explosives, and combat in order to kill babies, school children, and office workers today; versus the evil Christians attacking the peaceful Ottoman Empire who was marching across the Mediterranean and into Europe handing out fluffy kittens to everyone while spreading their message of peace and love.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
@To look at their past behavior, learn about the Crusades.
If you have to go this far back you've lost the argument. It's like a black person saying "I punched a random white person in the face ....because of slavery" or a person from the North killing a person from the South because of the Civil War.
evildemonicJun 30, 2010
I love how both of you conveniently missed the part about assassinating doctors and blowing up clinics, while either dismissing or forgiving the crusades. Awesome.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
artworkz918Jun 30, 2010
aaah the old crusades propaganda. You know, the Crusades that happened to free all the countries enslaved by Islam? where peaceful Islam took over Christian countries and killed everyone who wouldn't convert? yeah those crusades.....
dumbassComment is buried, click here to see the rest.
halyardJun 30, 2010
There is no way to defend the global network and millions of supporters funding Christian martyrs who are constantly firing rockets, crashing planes, and sending suicide bombers into abortion clinics, and then kidnapping, torturing, and beheading doctors.
vermifaxJun 30, 2010
...and Federal Buildings.
Plus, the who "Shock & Awe" thing...
halyardJun 30, 2010
...and China's invasion of Tibet if we're just picking random historical events.
osr3vJun 30, 2010
The twin towers attack was 9 years ago. When are you people going to let that go?
Where is the line on "going that far back"? Does anyone have a timeline for me to work with so I can form a response, or is it just based on what works for you?
Oh... Really? It is? Well then I guess you're right. Christians are full of love and roses while everyone else is evil and full of hate.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
savetheusa1Jun 30, 2010
Crusades anyone??
adhomineeJun 30, 2010
Not all of any religion is bad.
There are Christians who kill people, Muslims who kill people, Jews who kill people, and Atheists who kill people. None of them are pleasant or defendable.
To compare which is worse is a stupid argument.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
I think Muslims should be louder in condemning suicide bombers, just as Christians and Jews should be louder in condemning crimes committed by Israel.
goldyoshiJun 30, 2010
Don't feed the trolls!
enantiodromiaJun 30, 2010
You don't have to fly jets into buildings when you have the most advanced military force in the history of man.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
@enantiodromia... That military force didn't fare too well in Iraq or Afghanistan against what would have been considered primitive warfare techniques.
@halyard... This example may not be global, but Christians set up training camps "providing intensive training in weapons, explosives, and combat in order to kill babies, school children, and office workers today" as well.
http://www.google.com/search?q=christian+militia+training&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=
@alanocu, DavidTahl, halyard... Let's not forget about Iraq. Much of the world considers our actions there equivalent or worse than terrorism. Our soldiers racked up many more civilian victims than the Muslims did on 9-11.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/
Before you say Iraq wasn't a Christian mission, remember the comments made by Bush, Rummy, and Blackwater?
http://articles.sfgate.com/2005-10-07/news/17397250_1_palestinian-state-palestinian-foreign-minister-first-time-bush
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1184546/Donald-Rumsfelds-holy-war-How-President-Bushs-Iraq-briefings-came-quotes-Bible.html
http://open.salon.com/blog/kevin_gosztola/2009/08/05/blackwater_founders_visions_of_christian_supremacy_in_iraq
tsuruchibrianJun 30, 2010
@11oops
"@enantiodromia... That military force didn't fare too well in Iraq or Afghanistan against what would have been considered primitive warfare techniques."
Just playing devil's advocate, but we (the USA) are not trying to do the same thing in Iraq or Afghanistan that the terrorists are trying to do. If this was a "traditional" war, the USA would have no trouble killing every single person in those countries with a couple nukes.
We are trying to "win hearts and minds", while simultaneously "killing bad guys". This is a much harder goal than simply "winning a war", and that is why the mightiest military in the world is struggling.
The insurgents are not trying to win the hearts and minds of Americans. Their goal is killing Americans and those that help us. This is a much easier goal, and one that is attainable with even the most primitive weapons provided that the occupiers are not willing to accept EXTREMELY large numbers of civilian casualties.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_warfare
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
Christianity is fine compared to your religion JediMasterHorn. The Jedi are responsible for some of the most horrific events in galactic history. Their hatred and demonizing of the Sith people has persisted through the last few generations. Even to this day our children are brain washed by being introduced to George Lucas' 'Star Wars' films in which the Sith are shown as evil and ugly, while Jedi like Luke Skywalker are shown as heroes. Do you have any idea how many people died in the bombing of the Death Star? Some hero. I suggest you do some research on your own beliefs, before criticizing others.
jediknight1234Jun 30, 2010
Hey f**k you, we saved the Galaxy!
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
Because of jerks like him we don't even know the power of the dark side!
wookieesoldierJun 30, 2010
Hey man that's not cool. The sith sold my people into slavery.
defonosJun 30, 2010
I never knew Star Wars was so deep...
staticfireJun 30, 2010
This made my day, thanks.
enantiodromiaJun 30, 2010
You can't feel sorry for the workers on the Death Star... they knew what they were there for.
kuzmiakJun 30, 2010
Yeah I feel soooo sorry for them after they blew up Alderaan and were about to blow up Yavin.
lulllJun 30, 2010
reminded me of this scene:
Randal Graves: [talking about the second Death Star] A construction job of that magnitude would require a helluva lot more manpower than the Imperial army had to offer. I'll bet there were independent contractors working on that thing: plumbers, aluminum siders, roofers.
Dante Hicks: Not just Imperials, is what you're getting at...
Randal Graves: Exactly. In order to get it built quickly and quietly they'd hire anybody who could do the job. Do you think the average storm trooper knows how to install a toilet main? All they know is killing and white uniforms.
Dante Hicks: All right, so even if independent contractors are working on the Death Star, why are you uneasy with its destruction?
Randal Graves: All those innocent contractors hired to do a job were killed - casualties of a war they had nothing to do with.
[notices Dante's confusion]
Randal Graves: All right, look-you're a roofer, and some juicy government contract comes your way; you got the wife and kids and the two-story in suburbia - this is a government contract, which means all sorts of benefits. All of a sudden these left-wing militants blast you with lasers and wipe out everyone within a three-mile radius. You didn't ask for that. You have no personal politics. You're just trying to scrape out a living.
lethargicmonkeyJul 1, 2010
you win.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
Wow, you have a title, "Jedi Master", bet you're also living in a garage from where you are sending death threats to everyone who doesn't agree with you.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
rudegarJun 30, 2010
20% of the world are Muslims though
captininsanityJun 30, 2010
Yep, over a Billion people... Now that's scary... Scary for the future of the human race...
wiseguy1020Jun 30, 2010
and like 30% of them (depending on country) are okay with the murder of non-Muslim civilians.
defonosJun 30, 2010
yet the large majority of that 20% is peaceful...
ultimisJun 30, 2010
@Defonos
And "the large majority" of christians aren't peaceful?
defonosJun 30, 2010
@ultimis How did I say that? Way to take things out of context.
ninjafideJun 30, 2010
Ultimis is just in a heated game of "Jump to Conclusions".
captininsanityJul 1, 2010
Before you digg me down, its due to the lack of free thinking. I have a problem with a billion Catholics as well. Also, I'm not suggesting you need to be an Atheist either.
oxidaneJul 2, 2010
ive never ever seen a post dugg down so much. you should get dugg up just for that.
alanocuJun 30, 2010
Well the show title is appropriate, "Bulls**t!" because it is. The explanation makes sense, but I'd rather them cover all religions equally, or just not cover religion, period. Scientology owns Hollywood. No surprise. Showtime is getting orders from corporate. I'm not too worried about Xenu flying a jumbo jet into Manhattan skyscrapers and killing Americans. They do a lot of brainwashing that needs to be exposed, and I'd hardly even call Scientology a religion.
As far as Islam is concerned, the militants, the terrorists within Islam have won when they've turned us into cowards. All the Taliban did was house terrorists who killed thousands of Americans on our own soil; I guess that’s hardly worth a serious topic to cover. And that would take leadership. It would take balls. And when someone, some performer, some comedian, actor, actress or whomever decides to grow a pair, then I'll be watching.
albumenJun 30, 2010
$cientology doesn't own Hollywood, the Jews do.If the Scinos owned Hollywood we would have been forced to watch more movies like Battlefield Earth instead of Inglorious Basterds, Munich and Schindler's List. I have been pleased overall with their stewardship of the industry with some notable exceptions that I shan't note here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cmonjews.jpg
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lunarparcelJun 30, 2010
My daughter has a best friend who is Jewish. So based upon your assertion, I asked her if she own Hollywood. She told me that she really didn't know.
She's only 6 years old, so I'm assuming that her folks just haven't told her about it yet.
(do I even need the /s?)
artworkz918Jun 30, 2010
welcome anti semite^^^
albumenJul 4, 2010
I certainly meant no anti-semitism in this comment.
bmdisJul 15, 2010
Of course you can't field any criticism to anyone Jewish regardless of the situation without being labeled an anti-semite. Its like a protection blanket. But I tend to believe Hollywood is run by occultists of all kinds
holygodJun 30, 2010
You are an idiot. You also clearly don't have children. They aren't staying away from islam because they are cowards. They don't want their kids to be blown up.
You want to show that you have balls? Go walk down the street in kabul with a t-shirt that says "Mohamed was a fagot". You do that and then you can come back here and have a high and mighty opinion about other people standing up against terrorists. Until then you are just a coward behind a computer. At least Penn has the balls to admit he is afraid.
swizzcheezJun 30, 2010
Fair enough but the point is correct in that P&T should avoid all religion to be fair.
Honestly, I still love P&T and B$, but my respect for them just went down a notch based on the answer.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
nofrickenwayJun 30, 2010
What do the word gentlemen and a slut at an all black party have in common? They both have 2 G's in them.
slackdragonJun 30, 2010
"Honestly, I still love P&T and B$, but my respect for them just went down a notch based on the answer."
My respect for them went up, if that were possible, by a couple of notches for being forthright and honest. It's such brutal honesty that has made them hated by fellow magicians (showing how tricks are done), and offending other groups by not pulling punches in honest criticism.
Political correctness is not real or honest. If you ever find yourself being offended by Penn and Teller, it just means you need to take a step back and honestly review what you hold dear and true.
holygodJun 30, 2010
swizzcheez
I think he had a great answer to the disparity. He basically said we rip on christianity because we respect them enough to. They understand and embrace free speech.
kaelyiestaJun 30, 2010
swizzcheez, what is fair about ignoring all bulls**t? Why ought they ignore the nonsense of christianity or new age religions? If I don't go kill Kim Jong Il because he is too dangerous for some random internet guy to remove from dictatorship, do I have to be fair and let every other assh**e I meet get away with any evil they commit just to be fair? Should a police man ignore all crime because some of it is out of their jurisdiction?
That is bulls**t.
I am glad P&T do whatever they can. The proper response is not to say 'they should do less because they aren't doing everything!' but to say 'Thanks for what you guys have done, hope you will try doing more someday!'
cvrti5Jul 1, 2010
Yeah, and do that *with* a picture of M on your shirt too. Dead within 24 hours guaranteed.
atarioJul 1, 2010
This is most amusing. I remember the firestorm of condemnation Comedy Central received from Digg very recently for censoring the South Park episode with all the Mohammed in it. Now that it's Penn & Teller doing the "chickening out", suddenly it's reasonable.
Methinks this is more about libertarians siding with their own "teammates" than any principle.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
rogersausagesJul 1, 2010
In alanocu's defense he also doesn't have a TV show that's all about "debunking" certain beliefs or widely held views/myths. So you're a little quick to jump on him for his statement. Plus, he's right, when people of a free society are afraid to speak freely then the other party (Islam in this case) has won.
Founding fathers are rolling in their graves.
holygodJul 1, 2010
Atario
If Trey and Matt would have censored themselves I wouldn't have said s**t. I was pissed that Comedy Central censored them.
awesometastic1Jul 1, 2010
I used to sell t-shirts and my favorite that I sold was "Mohammad Jihad is My Middle Name" in Arabic style writing, though in English. :-) I always wanted to where that to the airport, but figured I'd be tased and sent to Cuba.
shodanxJul 1, 2010
HolyGod,
I though you were a goddamn crazy until your "At least Penn has the balls to admit he is afraid." the only thing that isn't bulls**t in that post
but I do agree that Bulls**t is BULLs**t !
and that Penn has gotten them big balls !!!Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
atarioJul 1, 2010
@HolyGod
Comedy Central's employees have families, too.
iambabycakesJul 9, 2010
This shows a serious lack of nutsack. If I can't find their families, then I strongly doubt any Islamic terror cell can.
And I once found a girl on facebook after seeing her through a train window.
✈ ▌▌
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mille716Jun 30, 2010
Why the extremes? I don't understand why they have to be fair or whatever to all religions. They had a show on the bible that completely opened my eyes to the bulls**t that went into making it. I learned something valuable to me from that episode. You're saying they shouldn't have had that episode, which made hundreds of thousands of people think more critically of their beliefs, because they have to equally slam all religions? Why? I just don't follow that logic.
It's not like Penn & Teller are shy about their objections to Islam and religions in general. They just don't want to risk their family's safety.
lazlowJun 30, 2010
This guy needs to be digg up more
shodanxJul 1, 2010
no, the fear of being in danger for bad mouthing islam is a complete made-up fear that plays on all the parents' fears for their children
so don't digg that fear monger !!!
slvrbullet87Jun 30, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
isaactwitoJun 30, 2010
@alanocu, the Taliban had nothing to do with 9/11, fyi. The organization you are thinking of is al Qaeda. At this point I recommend you just stop arguing and hating, perhaps try learning a sliver of real information first.
holygodJul 1, 2010
The Taliban and Al Qaeda were intertwined.
lavarockJul 9, 2010
They had "something to do with" 9/11 in that they protected the people who did it.
finsternisJun 30, 2010
alanocu, do you mind if I put a cartoon picture of Mohammed on the internet and put your real name and home address on it?
Until the answer is "yes"... then STFU.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
dotgetJun 30, 2010
As for scientology, when your producer doesn't want you to cover a topic, they won't air the show. There's really nothing you can do about that.
caramba421Jun 30, 2010
Xenu doesn't have to fly a jumbo jet into a building because he can just put you in a volcano in Hawaii and nuke it.
sonofcaliJun 30, 2010
Theo van Gogh. Look him up.
gdj11Jul 1, 2010
If you criticize Islam nothing will happen. If Penn and Teller criticize Islam something will happen.
cuntflowerJul 1, 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8vp7ku47Qs
Here you go, across the board dismissal, as requested.
lnmagicJul 1, 2010
You mistakenly assume that every Muslim is the same. Is every Christian the same? Hardly.
I'd like to point out an episode of "The West Wing" that came out shortly after 9/11. In it, they pointed out that Islamic terrorism is to Islam, just as the Ku Klux Klan is to Christianity. The members may have all had the same religion, but they shared no official affiliation with the church.
Unfortunately, there ARE some Muslims in the world who might wage war based upon statements denigrating their religion, which seems untrue of Christianity, but that does not mean that they represent all or even the majority of Islam.
holysinJul 9, 2010
Re: all religions equally, they are. At least in retrospect. The Vatican episode was removed from the showtime website and the dvd release, it's now only available on P2P sources.... so while they DID cover the vatican, the vatican had enough power to remove it. Perhaps just not doing it in the first place is a better choice... Either way, BLAH religion.
bmdisJul 15, 2010
That any of you still believe Muslims of any sort were involved in 9/11 is just sad and a reflection of how ignorant the majority of Americans wish to remain
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
Sounds like they need to do an expose on why Showtime won't let them touch Scientology.
rudegarJun 30, 2010
who should broadcast it? showtime?
newerakbJun 30, 2010
Family Guy and Simpsons make fun of Fox all the time.
danielhunterJun 30, 2010
I think Family Guy and The Simpsons have a little more leverage than Bulls**t.
azrobotoJun 30, 2010
Conan made fun of NBC...
Not the best example?
valynJul 2, 2010
@newerakb
So did Married with Children. But these shows do it all in good humor. P&T do their best to rip their targets apart. Big difference there.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
omgwolfJun 30, 2010
YouTube after Showtimes kicks them off.
aldatbagsnchinaJun 30, 2010
Youtube? No... Revision 3
lazlowJun 30, 2010
Then they would lose funding from showtime and not have a show anymore
quisquisJun 30, 2010
Lazlow:
"youtube after showtime kicks them off."
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
No need - like Penn said, not being able to say something about a specific religion because you fear for your own life automatically makes that religion bulls**t until they start to allow freedom of speech.
tsuruchibrianJun 30, 2010
Maybe when BS gets canceled, they can do some internet episodes about subjects Showtime wouldn't let them do.
Of course, they may still have families when this happens, so some subjects may remain off limits.
apastafarianJun 30, 2010
So is Showtime afraid of a litigious scientology or are there some "clear" people in charge?
prisoner24601Jun 30, 2010
Has anyone ever put together a list showing the number of lawsuits *started* by various religious groups? I'd be fascinated to see a report showing that in the last decade there have been X cases where a mosque or a synagogue or the Catholic church have been the *plaintiff* in a suit. (You'd probably have to adjust it by membership count. "lawsuits per capita" or something.)
My guess is that it would clearly show how INSANELY litigious the Scientologists are and how much they have become experts at manipulating the legal system.
fontzepontzeJun 30, 2010
A little from column A, a little from column B.
demironinJun 30, 2010
I'm gonna SUE You!
edwarddouglasJun 30, 2010
More than likely showtime isnt afraid of litigation they are afraid that scientologists wont wont anything to do with the channel.
parabola9Jun 30, 2010
Three words: Mission Impossible IV.
Viacom, which owns Showtime and Paramount (which produces the MI movies) already caved to Tom Cruise when he threatened them over a South Park episode which made fun of him and Scientology.
That's why there won't be a show about it on Showtime.
pocketjacksJul 2, 2010
Three words: Knight and Day
That stinker may end up sinking the Mission Impossible series altogether.
david4041Jun 30, 2010
The Scientologists are notoriously litigious. Even Showtime wins, they'll incur a lot of attorneys' fees.
Years ago, I was looking for a job as an attorney. One listing I saw was for a law firm that admitted in its listing that 95% of its work was for the Church of Scientology. IIRC, they had six or so attorneys.
diggeradoJun 30, 2010
You know, South Park has done plenty, but they're still alive. Brave guys for fighting Islam and their bosses at the same time. Of course, it's nice to have enough money to go into hiding forever on a whim.
yardieJun 30, 2010
South Park isn't immune. There are scenes involving Tom Cruise and scientology that will only ever be seen abroad and on the DVD.
Family guy suffers the same fate. When they drop into the musical numbers it's because that entire scene was cut by Fox. Rather than edit it Seth plays a song to let you know there is material here you can't see.
pwnisherxJun 30, 2010
I thought the musicals were just fillers due to lack of content.
drunkenkiteJun 30, 2010
...I never knew that about the musicals.
laskoJun 30, 2010
are you sure about that? i figured they did musical numbers because the simpsons also do. hell, a lot of their songs sound similar to ones on the simpsons.
slvrbullet87Jun 30, 2010
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nofrickenwayJun 30, 2010
Seth never mentioned it on the commentaries. The Sinatra one comes to mind where they were talking about Family Guy being one of the most musical shows in a long time. That would have been the ideal opportunity to say it even if he only presented it as a joke to Sinatra since he was being praised.
I'm sure they do it on purpose, just watch the commentaries and you get that vibe.
particleman420Jun 30, 2010
i always though it was because seth liked gay musical numbers
nomatophobicJun 30, 2010
So the 'bag of weed' musical number was a big cover up for...
atarioJul 1, 2010
...the "bag of PCP" number they really wanted?
reebee52Jul 1, 2010
I don't think that's necessarily true... Seth Macfarlan is a really talented musician/vocalist. These are actually some of the most creative parts of Family Guy.
holygodJun 30, 2010
South Park never really took it to Islam though. nowhere near as much as every other religion.
tsuruchibrianJun 30, 2010
The only religion they criticized more was Christianity, which makes sense because that's the religion their fans are most familiar with.
Islam is easily #2 target. They did at least 4 or 5 episodes about Islam. They only did 1 about Scientology, and 1 about Mormons. They also did 2 or 3 about Catholicism if we want to treat it separately from Christianity (although I am not sure why anybody does).
My counting may be wrong, but I am the biggest south park fan ever, so I think I am pretty close.
holygodJul 1, 2010
They included islam in several episodes. But they never went after it that hard in my opinion. Not in any of the ones I saw. They always kind of skirted the issue. Where as they tore scientology apart.
tsuruchibrianJul 1, 2010
Well there was they 4 episodes. They did 2 different 2 part episodes about how Muslims KILL PEOPLE for showing an image of Muhammad.
In the 1 episode where they "tore Scientology apart", they made them look stupid, but the worst allegation made against the religion was that it's goal was to make money from it's gullible followers.
In just about every system of morality I can think of, murder is worse than fraud.
propethicJun 30, 2010
Trey and Matt are much more hidden then Penn & Teller, who give regular lectures and interviews
enclavedJun 30, 2010
Yeah I'd say 6 nights a week doing shows at the Rio in Vegas is pretty exposed.
slackdragonJun 30, 2010
And don't forget their live shows at their theater in Las Vegas. They're very public figures on a regimented show schedule.
So, let's say you're a Jihadist with a ball-bearing loaded explosive vest... Quick! Tell me where Matt and Trey are at any given time.
hivoltage815Jun 30, 2010
Hey guys, don't forget the Vegas shows too!
lazlowJun 30, 2010
and what about the bomb threats and matt and trey got?
cvrti5Jul 1, 2010
Remember Chef left SP after the Scientology "Trapped in the Closet" S09E12.
korkasJul 15, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
hetmanJun 30, 2010
Thats Bulls**t!
identifiedlogoJun 30, 2010
yap BULLs**t!
atarioJul 1, 2010
...with Sam Seder!
http://www.youtube.com/user/SamSeder
mkriss5681Jun 30, 2010
"Teller and I have been brutal to Christians, and their response shows that they’re good f**king Americans who believe in freedom of speech. We attack them all the time, and we still get letters that say, “We appreciate your passion. Sincerely yours, in Christ.” Christians come to our show at the Rio and give us Bibles all the time. They’re incredibly kind to us. Sure, there are a couple of them who live in garages, give themselves titles and send out death threats to me and Bill Maher and Trey Parker. But the vast majority are polite, open-minded people, and I respect them for that."
You can bash Christian for A LOT, but at least they are stabbing critics.
rudegarJun 30, 2010
think there is a not missing before stabbing
pmkenny1234Jun 30, 2010
No. I'm a Christian and I quite enjoy stabbing critics in my secret squad. Good times!
serif69Jun 30, 2010
It's called the Sacrament of Holy Stabbiness. It's a very deep religious rite where the priest or minister blesses the ice picks and leads the congregation in prayer. Then the congregation lines up, just as with Communion, to receive their weapons. "The blade of Christ," the Stabbinistic ministers say, to which you reply, "Amen," and they hand you an ice pick. The leader then concludes the rite with the instruction to "go forth to serve the Lord and one another, and to get all stabby." Then the congregation goes out to find critics.
slackdragonJun 30, 2010
I prefer to lobbeth the LORD's Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.
Let us consult the Book of Armaments...
"And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, 'O Lord, bless this thy hand grenade, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy.' And the Lord did grin. And the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths, and carp and anchovies, and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit-bats." -- Armaments 2:9-21
One! Two! FIVE!
zb757Jun 30, 2010
Three sir
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
Muslims aren't stabbing critics either, at least here in the United States. The Muslim threat we're convinced is lurking around every corner exists solely in our minds. I'm not saying there aren't Muslim terrorists or anything stupid like that, but come on, there is so much fear and dread over potential violence, but not much actual violence to justify that fear, at least in this country.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
gellfexJun 30, 2010
What massive powers of denial you have. Muslim jihadis are terrorizing people from London to Indonesia, but if it's not here in a big way since 9/11, it can't be real. That sounds an awful lot like what the rest of Europe said in 1937. (sorry Godwin)
skagsJun 30, 2010
Give me a break. When there are global protests where people end up getting killed over a f**king cartoon that offends Muslims, it seems a little naive to say that Islamic violence isn't a threat in this country (aside from the occasional destruction of massive buildings or thwarted bombings of course).
edwarddouglasJun 30, 2010
If you live in Oklahoma you are correct. If you live in Manhattan not so much.
djskylerJun 30, 2010
@rocknog, then you'd better contact P&T right away to let them know they are all clear to do their Islam show
travelsonicJun 30, 2010
Gellfex,
"What massive powers of denial you have. "
For stating "Muslims aren't stabbing critics either, at least here in the United States" ? So where are all the news stories about all the atrocities these people are allegedly committing within our borders if it is true? Sure, in other countries this premise is not strong, but in the U.S, you'd have to be in denial to think that there isn't truth in this staatement.
socrates114Jul 1, 2010
Well travelsonic there was that dude shooting people at the army base in texas. The three attempted bombings that i know of. The underpants bomber and the shoe bomber and the times square svu bomber. and 9/11.
elbowmanJun 30, 2010
Except those few "good Christians" that bomb clinics and shoot doctors. That's different because it's "justifiable" homicide.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
happyimbecileJun 30, 2010
Way to show your ignorance, as the quote from Penn was trying to say the exact opposite... a few bad apples can give them all a bad name, just like with Islam, but there's no reason to believe all or even most Christians are hate-mongering jackasses.
kerpwntJun 30, 2010
Not defending Islam at all here, but... Given the world population of Musilms, the extremist population is a pretty small piece of the pie.
djskylerJun 30, 2010
@kerpwnt - The Islamic system is set up that way, so that only a few need go full terrorist while the remaining majority support the jihadists in passive ways
http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/2008/08/when_is_too_many_muslims.html
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
Its because Christianity is the "cool" religion to hate. And hating it is your right and christians dont punish you for it.
Islam is the religion your too godamn afraid to mention. Thats right. You've got the balls to hate christianity when everyone on TV and your friends are doing it. But your perfectly comfortable with a religion that oppresses your freedom of speech by killing you and your loved ones if you even so much as mention Islam. Say whatever the f**k you will about christianity. But its the only religion thats taken the biggest amount of flak from people and christians just have to smile.
f**king hypocrits.
airportbaldyJun 30, 2010
All religions are "cool" to hate and ridicule, except for Judaism and Buddhism. Judaism for obvious reasons, and Buddhism because internet culture has deep respect for athiesm, which Theravad Buddhism teaches.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
speedsteamboatJun 30, 2010
I see what you are saying, but that's not what hypocrisy is...
ammundsenJun 30, 2010
I have a theory that you cant insult that which has power. The test to find out who truly has power is to figure out who you can insult and who you cant. For instance, in Nazi Germany you could not insult Hitler or the Nazi party. You could insult Jews. Therefore Nazis and Hitler had power and Jews did not. In Iraq you could insult a lot of people or organizations, but you could not insult Saddam Hussein because he was the dictator. In America you used to be able to insult Blacks and Jews. When you could the White Christian had the power. Now you can insult Whites and Christians, but not Blacks and Jews or Scientologists for that matter. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
xaevierJun 30, 2010
Judiasm has always been the religion to hate on, I mean come on people use "You Jew" as an insult.
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
gefahrJul 15, 2010
@Xaevier
That's a bit of a misnomer. "Jewish" is in the unique position of [in modern use] referring to both a religion and an ethnic group. When people use "Jew" as an insult/jab/joke, they are referring to the ethnic group and its traits or stereotypes.
catalysisJun 30, 2010
I guess you are safe unless you're a doctor that performs abortions. I suppose in that case Penn is fine with Christians murdering doctors and blowing up clinics.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
skybarkJun 30, 2010
Did you miss this part?
Sure, there are a couple of them who live in garages, give themselves titles and send out death threats to me and Bill Maher and Trey Parker.
Closed AccountJul 1, 2010
It's just funny to me that we're praising a religion because their members don't regularly kill other people.
Is this what it's all come down to?
The least evil and least dangerous is the most holy or most admirable?
Because like it or not, christianity is responsible for a lot of needless deaths in the past century. You can add them up if you like.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
sauron256Jul 2, 2010
I'm pretty sure atheists are responsible for a few deaths too.
tarantulusJul 9, 2010
probably, but not BECAUSE they were atheists.
docholiday22Jun 30, 2010
Scientologists and Islamic extremist should have an open fight; that would be pretty awesome.
kylereJun 30, 2010
Even the Xians would smack down the $cientologists.
ravishinglukeJun 30, 2010
Maybe they could pair the two on the next episode of Deadliest Warrior
mdellingJun 30, 2010
I would watch that. Hell, I think I would pay to watch that.
warispeace21Jun 30, 2010
That would make a great RTS game. You could have the Muslim extremists with their suicide bombers against Scientologists with their Sea Org and waves of pre-clear fodder fighting militia members and their truck bombs. You could call it Extremist Warfare.
"Your compound is under attack"
"Damn you Scientology!"
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
E-mail the people who make COD
jtheiJun 30, 2010
Or maybe the people who make C&C since COD isn't an RTS.
warispeace21Jun 30, 2010
The jihadi superweapon would be chemical weapons. The Scientologists would have a giant clamlike Xenu smashing buildings down like Godzilla. And the militia would have Glenn Beck show up dousing everything in gasoline and lighting it on fire.
It would be the scariest game of all time.
pauldavisJun 30, 2010
Let's make it a 3-way. Add Mormons.
saladcactuskingJun 30, 2010
The only command you could give the Mormon army ingame is "Breed" though.
slackdragonJun 30, 2010
Damnit! My Jehovah's Witnesses won't attack!
wondertwinsJul 1, 2010
It would be explosions and threats
dtfinchJun 30, 2010
I would have thought it was because most Penn and Teller viewers aren't Muslims or Scientologists. No point in singing to the choir.
cme884Jun 30, 2010
I would wager that most aren't hardcore Christians, either.
matu4251Jun 30, 2010
your explanation makes no sense... it would if their viewers WERE muslims or scientologists. In which case it wouldn't be a good thing to bash them. But, if the viewers aren't, well.. people always have a good time being critical of others.
mcwhitebreadJun 30, 2010
Meep zorp atta-atta- zug zug!
imbleedingJun 30, 2010
It's bizarre to read this interview juxtaposed against all the reaction/comments about Christianity=evil. Some people can't see the word "Christ" without losing it these days.
jqp123Jun 30, 2010
"Some people can't see the word "Christ" without losing it these days."
Like who for example?
Anyone who can't stand the word "Christ' must be "losing it" constantly because it is everywhere. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
wussJun 30, 2010
ironically the ONLY.. and i mean ONLY time I see the words "Jesus" and "Christ" uttered, is on digg in the context of an anti-religion comment.
now that is ironic.
jqp123Jun 30, 2010
Then you must not get out much.
In some parts of this country (the South for example), you can't drive 5 miles in any direction with seeing at least one sign with the words "Jesus" or "Christ" on it.
Typically these signs are in front of stores where they sell "holy water" --- it only costs 10 percent of your income. Sprinkle some of this special water on your head or take a bath in it and you will live forever.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
wussJun 30, 2010
So your logic is that since I live in Los Angeles, and don't see "Jesus" and "christ", is that I "don't get out much" because it's plastered everywhere in the southern part of the United States?
You are a moron.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
jqp123Jun 30, 2010
No, my logic is that since churches are fairly common even in Los Angeles, if you haven't seen them then you must not get out much.
"You are a moron."
Such a Christian thing to say.
wussJun 30, 2010
Is it? That's really interesting considering I'm not a Christian. Not really sure what you're reading into my comments.
dylbrwn2Jun 30, 2010
I live in Alabama and I'm pretty sure I'm in a 5 mile radius of at least 1 church at basically all times during a regular day.
tymeJun 30, 2010
Some people can't see the word "Islam" or "Muslim" without losing it these days.
faithclubdotnetJun 30, 2010
Christianity is the opposite of evil. I don't know how people can be against love, for Christianity worships love. I guess if you have too much hate in your heart, maybe there's no room to love.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
jqp123Jun 30, 2010
"I don't know how people can be against love, for Christianity worships love."
Love --- with underage boys?
megadan76Jun 30, 2010
People who hate christianity don't hate love. They hate greed, rape, pedophilia, deception, and being told what to believe, what to feel, and what to do with their lives.
djskylerJun 30, 2010
Hey @megdan76, I think I've found the organization for you:
"We are our own Gods. We do not bow down before the myths and fictions of the desiccated spiritual followers of Christianity. We move with fury and grace through this current culture of rampant mediocrity. We are sickened by the complacency, hypocrisy, prejudice, and self-righteousness that most conventional religions encourage in people. When my back is up against the wall, I’m not strengthened by Jesus’ supposed martyrdom, or by the idea of praying and being saved, or of mooning over some glorious afterlife (so I don’t have to take responsibility for this one). Our scorn for such drivel is in our hard-wiring, and we could no more “give our lives over to Christ” than we could cut off one of our own limbs."
http://www.churchofsatan.com/Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
jqp123Jun 30, 2010
@djskyler
"I think I've found the organization for you:"
A belief in Satan implies a belief in God and vice versa. They both arise from the same common mythology; you can't have one without the other. I can't speak for megadan76 but most atheists don't "believe" in either.
djskylerJun 30, 2010
Not that I'm really recruiting here, but Anton Levey's church is very serious about the first sentence I quoted "We are our own Gods."
Certainly you might find "movie satanists" who focus on worshipping a being opposite to God, but the Church of Satan is really focused on freeing oneself from obligations to others and living your own life according to your own desires.
So when @megandan76 complains about "being told what to believe, what to feel, and what to do with their lives," I just ask her to be honest about what she thus really believes in.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
jkalJul 1, 2010
That is the most absurd oxymoron.
"True unconditional love" does NOT require worship,
by worshiping something you are putting yourself down, and thus not loving yourself unconditionally, so you create a lesser god than the real God.
The one true God does not require your worship or prayers.
The one true God is all and just is.
You cannot influence it, or beg for favours, or make it angry or vengeful, these are YOUR inventions and rules, not God's
johnfluxJul 1, 2010
JKAL, How can you possibly know that? There is no reason at all that God should be how you want him to be.
jqp123Jul 1, 2010
@JKAL,@JohnFlux
Yet another example of god being created in man's image.
Down through the history of mankind, roughly 10000 different religions have been documented. The only belief they all have share --- we're right and you're wrong.
The difference between a believer and an atheist --- the atheist rejects one additional religion.
tertiusregentJun 30, 2010
True, but at least Christians won't firebomb you over a political cartoon scaring the s**t out of people so much that few publications in the world will reprint it.
detornJun 30, 2010
yea, Christians are never violent...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31029377/
tertiusregentJun 30, 2010
I never said they weren't. I said that violence is not feared on the same level nor have their actions resulted in the same level of violence that has resulted in the fear of Muslim extremists. One is at least shocked when reading an article such as the one you posted a link to. Can you say the same when you read yet ANOTHER article about suicide bombings, rioting etc. by Muslim extremists?
jqp123Jun 30, 2010
"Can you say the same when you read yet ANOTHER article about suicide bombings, rioting etc. by Muslim extremists?"
And in most Muslim countries, they're no longer shocked when they read yet ANOTHER article about the US military killing Muslims. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
tertiusregentJun 30, 2010
Again the scale and ratio is not the same.
jqp123Jul 1, 2010
Roughly 3 thousand people die in the World Trade Center.
Roughly 100 thousand people (minimum) die during the invasion of Iraq.
So you're right, the scale and the ratio is not the same.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
phrawghJul 1, 2010
Many people can't fathom religion without losing it. It's quite understandable actually.
addictedtomoshJun 30, 2010
those two don't really need covering everyone knows they are bulls**t.
boozedrinkerJun 30, 2010
So just go after religion as a whole if you are worried about retribution from certain sects.
domduncJun 30, 2010
Well 90% of the arguments against christianity can also be applied to Islam anyway.
propethicJun 30, 2010
Any argument against a specific religion is an argument against religion itself, unless you're talking about non-organized religions
hipmanJun 30, 2010
Then, like he said, go after religion.
CallMeDjmJun 30, 2010
"And we haven't tackled Islam because we have families. "
Can't argue with that logic. Dugg.
identifiedlogoJun 30, 2010
Yes I can.
The South Park guys dont have families????????
Its not about that....Its cowardice. Saying something like that living in AMERICA, of all places, is a shame. A BIG BIG shame.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
useraccessJun 30, 2010
Excellent Thought! And the South Park guys go out of their way to make the point. I think this is a little Pussy & Tinkerbellish of them.
CallMeDjmJun 30, 2010
And Comedy Central (probably for their own good) knew that that was the line not to cross.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
The South Park episode(s) were far more benign than a Penn & Teller episode about Islam would be.
slackdragonJun 30, 2010
Penn and Teller have a theater in Vegas where they do live shows all the time. They make public appearances ALL THE TIME.
Stone and Parker are far more secluded publicly. You have various types of celebrity. Matt and Trey are nowhere near as public as Penn and Teller. So, yeah... I don't blame Penn and Teller for looking out for the safety of themselves and their families. They're not in an animation studio and sound-booth most of their careers.
identifiedlogoJun 30, 2010
Are we making excuse now?
Look what happened. THEY BACKED DOWN. Yeap, more reason for these idiots to turn this country in to England or Scotland. You know whats going on there?? Everyone is scared s**tless of this people, they cant even walk freely on their own streets. and the morons get to say and do the craziest things without any worry.
They make public appearances??? Really. Even a scout sniper gets killed once in while, does that make him any less a soldier???Dont Tray & Matt buy groceries, don't they pump gas, dont their families ever go outdoors. You really think they live in a studio cave??
What ever the reason, they got scared of these islamist idiots in AMERICA. Thats a really nice start; Why did the artist get killed in Denmark? They watched when things escalated, now they cant control them.
PENN & TELLER are in the public eye. The only thing they should be doing is mock societies ridiculous behaviors, the harder the ridicule the better.... WTF are they doing? Its better if they had said nothing about it than admit they were SCARED. Now who else is SCARED of Islamists in AMERICA? Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
therealmisterdJun 30, 2010
You wouldn't want members of a "peaceful religion"(tm) firebomb your house or shoot you and your family, now would you.
identifiedlogoJun 30, 2010
If that happens in America, Then ITS TOO LATE.
So stop it before it gets there. Expose the madness
isaactwitoJun 30, 2010
How about starting someplace realistic? I recommend the book "The Trouble With Islam Today" if you want a serious critique. That way, instead of all of digg spouting bigoted bulls**t that caricatures an enormous population of believers, you can develop a basis for sensible and sensitive dialogue. Obviously there is intense motivation for some INCREDIBLY SMALL groups of muslims in the world to have turned militant. Yes, there is hypersensitivity toward depicting their prophet, but other than that can a single person here name another issue that generates controversy of this nature? Because this is a trivial matter blown WAAAY out of proportion by a bunch of internet losers with nothing better to do, my 2 cents.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
colinfoxJul 1, 2010
You know what would be great?
Rather than whining about how all the mean non-muslims pick on muslims by saying islam is dangerous, how about the moderate muslims THEMSELVES police their religion and get rid of the psychos?
When the moderate muslims muzzle their psycho comrades and make the world a safe place to draw pictures, THEN we will stop saying that islam is dangerous.
isaactwitoJul 3, 2010
Look, it's not about what names we call each other or ourselves. We're all human, we're all in this together, and we are all responsible for calling each other out when we f**k up, and for being informed enough to be sensitive yet realistic about it. But honestly, you all are making me sick right now. Bigots.
kasha34Jul 3, 2010
Moderate muslims? Are those the ones who contribute money for the jihad, but don't actually pull the trigger?
wiseguy1020Jun 30, 2010
Its all good as long as it is not in your backyard, am I right?
Grow some f**king balls.
CallMeDjmJun 30, 2010
No, it's not good anywhere.
Grow a brain.
wiseguy1020Jul 1, 2010
Keep cowering in fear.
Its a good thing that there are people (unlike you) still willing to put their balls on the line to do what's right.
valynJul 2, 2010
Putting your balls on the line is one thing. But putting your family's balls on the line is completely different.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
Seriously? I'm actually gonna have to call bulls**t on Penn here. I mean, I get it, people are afraid of Muslims, but it's an irrational fear. Even if he did a show on Muslims, what are the odds that a group of extremists are actually going to come to his house and kill him and his family? He of all people should know better that the fear of terrorist attacks is so prevalent, not because the attacks themselves are prevalent, but because one attack was very prominent. It's like how people are more afraid of airplanes than cars, even though cars take many more lives per year. We fear plane crashes because they always make the news, whereas car crashes do not.
I mean, let's just do the numbers here, shall we? There are roughly 2.4 million deaths per year in the US, give or take. Keep in mind I'm just going with ballpark figures here from the CDC. So, over the past ten years, that equals out to roughly 24 million deaths. Roughly 3,000 people died on 9/11, the only fatal terrorist attack on American soil in the past ten years. 3,000 out of 24 million - I'm sorry, you can defend him by saying that he's being overly cautious or whatever, but it's just such an incredibly unlikely chance that he'd be the victim of a terrorist attack.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
powderedtoastyJun 30, 2010
I don't know what the odds are of Penn getting killed by a Muslim extremist, but I'm pretty confident they would go up considerably if they did a Bulls**t episode on the religion.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
Even then, he's still infinitely more likely to die in a car accident.
suricouJun 30, 2010
Infinitely? That word does not mean what you think it means.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
The nail that sticks out gets hammered.
powderedtoastyJun 30, 2010
The squeaky wheal gets greased.
suricouJun 30, 2010
Salman Rushdie: Wrote a book critical of Islam. Still alive, but only because the murder attempt failed.
Theo van Gogh: Made a film critical of Islam. Shot by a fundamentalist muslim.
Kurt Westergaard: Drew cartoons critical of Islam. Three muslims attempted to murder him for them, but were stopped by police.
This is what P&T are afraid of: http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/08/muslim220806_600x400.jpg
Look at is this way. There are approximatly two billion muslims in the world. Let's just assume that a very small number of those are both devout and prone to violence - say, just to make up a plausable figure, 0.1%. That's a tiny amount proportionally. It still means there are two million of them just waiting for a good excuse.
jbmcbJun 30, 2010
Beat me to it.
noeinJun 30, 2010
"Europe you will pay, fantastic 4 are on their way." What?
kasha34Jul 3, 2010
The percentage is ten times that. And the half of the rest contribute money to the jihad.
pyrallisJul 6, 2010
I see the makings of a new type of Drake Equation.
dae3dae3Jun 30, 2010
Tell that to Theo van Gogh. Oh, I guess you'll have to let his family know since he was murdered for making a film critical of Islam.
domduncJun 30, 2010
But what are the odds of people being attacked/killed AFTER publically critisizing Islam? Probably pretty high given the Danish cartoon/Theo van Gogh situation.
kasha34Jul 3, 2010
People critical of Islam have been murdered for 1,400 years. Mohammad personally gave the order to kill a couple of poets who wrote verses critical of him.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
skagsJun 30, 2010
You're comfortable with Islamic violence because people are more likely to die from diseases or car accidents? Go take your moronic red herring argument elsewhere you twit.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
No, I'm just saying I'm not going to piss my pants in fear over it. I live in the real world, with real threats. Yes, people die at the hands of Islamic terrorists, but what are the actual numbers, especially here in the US? I'm not going to get worked up over something so statistically utterly insignificant.
And I mean, it's telling how people keep bringing up ONE CARTOONIST. That says nothing about how likely the threat actually is. No one will talk actual numbers, just in anecdotes - any time that happens, any time at all when someone trots out specific examples rather than talking about the data, you know they're full of bulls**t, just like those f**king morons who think that their kids prove vaccines cause autism.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
veriixJun 30, 2010
What are your odds of getting hit by a car while crossing the street? Do you still look both ways before you step out?
kasha34Jul 3, 2010
@rocknog
The numbers of us killed here by jihadis is low because of the efforts of strong and brave men & women that make it difficult for them.
Here, in Iraq and in Afghanistan. And other places around the globe.
Did you know there were some 25,000 people working in the WTC that day? Don't you think Al Qaida would have been happier if ALL of them died and not just 3,000?
If Al Qaida could obtain a nuclear weapon and plant it in an American city, do you think they'd NOT detonate it out of mercy for us?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
jbmcbJun 30, 2010
@rocknog
You are conflating risk factors. The odds of any random person dying in a terrorist attack carried out by Islamic extremists is very low.
Once you make a very public critique of Islam, the odds of you, personally, being murdered by an Islamic extremist shoots up.
neutron7Jun 30, 2010
how can we get scientology and islam to go jihad on each other?
jones82Jun 30, 2010
Maybe it's like getting the monsters to fight each other in Doom
hivoltage815Jun 30, 2010
Or that movie Sum of All Fears where the neo nazis got the Russians and United States to point their weapons on each other.
wussJun 30, 2010
u put them in a big jar and shake it really hard.
vargvikernesJun 30, 2010
Make a movie where Tom Cruise stars Muhammed?
psolmsJun 30, 2010
quick! get this man to hollywood!
tolya7Jun 30, 2010
VargeVikerned,
A million diggs to you!!!!!
runnamuck62Jul 1, 2010
I dugg you down so I could digg you up twice
morpheousmartyJun 30, 2010
Well, honestly, if we can just get them to publicly comment on each other they should get started. Personally I think it would be easier to get Scientology to open it's big mouth, but if anyone can get Bin Ladden to say just about anything about Scientology, we're off to the races.
bluesmann353Jun 30, 2010
"Seeks Converts, Enforces Aggressively with Brutal Tactics" Vs "$eeks Convert$, Enforces Aggre$$ively with Secrecy & Lawsuits" ---- hey good match. Code--- Dollar signs represent Scientology in a spirit fairness. Islam is less expensive.
nobody98Jun 30, 2010
Draw cartoons of Tom Cruise raping mohammad?
nobody98Jun 30, 2010
And make muslims draw cartoons of Xenu raping top cruise.
kwansoloJun 30, 2010
http://i.imgur.com/IBQ9y.jpg
needcoffeeJul 1, 2010
WTF
valynJul 2, 2010
srsly, wtf?
kwansoloJul 3, 2010
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wololo
yage2006Jul 1, 2010
Well Islamic extremists are doing a fine job at killing each other at least.
s2kadom_Jul 1, 2010
jihad means struggle in arabic ... so what you just said makes no sense.
johnfluxJul 1, 2010
How so? The struggle against each other.
harinezumiJul 1, 2010
Xenu was actually an Islamic terrorist, who flew Thetan planes into volcanoes!
worldofsmutJul 7, 2010
Actually, Islamists *have* already declared war on Scientologists, who, like Buddhists. Hindus and other non-believers are considered "kuffr" or Infidels who deserve to be killed.
There's a reason you won't be seeing any Scientology Headquarters opening in Iran or Saudi Arabia any time soon.
isenborgJun 30, 2010
Amazing the freedoms we are willing to give up for fear of lawyers and ignorant, backwards islamic murderers. Do we really want to live as fearful sheep?
domduncJun 30, 2010
No, we don't WANT to.
14justiceJun 30, 2010
But our government is providing the example.
aufteJun 30, 2010
Apparently, you do.
kasha34Jul 3, 2010
Since we can't tell which Muslims will flip out and start shooting us, why have ANY of them here?
moxleyJun 30, 2010
Their show "Bulls**t!" is generaly great except for the 9/11 episode...that episode, was obviously "Bulls**t."
moxleyJun 30, 2010
Oh, do we still have people who believe the official story? The one that has been disproven in every way possible - with several of the contradiciting facts even being reported in mainstream news reports.
I didn't think there were many left...The fact is that though their show is good, and though they usually see through things - that particular show, the one on 9/11 - was ridiculous. My opinion of course, but one a lot of people share.
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
bluto36Jun 30, 2010
answering your own post is bull s**t
but so is the "truth" movement
johnrebJun 30, 2010
Funny, I was there also, and that the "truth" movement has any followers is an embarrassment to the entire human race.
danj484Jun 30, 2010
In every way possible? Only if you have only a cursory understanding of engineering or physics.
johnrebJun 30, 2010
Well, after all, danj484, the official story is supported by MIT faculty members.
What could they know about physics and engineering?
iignotusJun 30, 2010
How convenient (read: predictable) that you didn't make a reply to any of these more substantive arguments and instead chose to focus on the two that rightly called you an idiot/retard. That's because it's very easy to "call someone out" for name-calling even when it's deserved, but your brain can't function on a high enough level to refute and opposing information. But of course this lack of mental capability goes hand in hand with believing in the "truth" movement in the first place, so I expected nothing better out of a person like you.
lokithecomplexJun 30, 2010
Do you think you'll ever change your mind?
moxleyJun 30, 2010
The only thing that would make me change my mind is factual evidence, but so far all of the real factual evidence supports the conclusion that the official story is a bunch of s**t - and since facts generally dont change (unless they are propagnda masquerading as facts) no, I don't expect that to be the case.
I didn't say I knew exactly what DID happen, I only said (as many of the 9/11 commmissioners have come out and said) that the official story is bulls**t...
I didn't start out thinking that was the case, I actually was looking to validate it and answer some questions that didn't make sense back in 2001 when this happened - in the 24 hours it took me to get out of the city that day, (in addition to the things I saw myself), I spoke with a lot of cops and firemen.
It's truly amazing to me that anyone DOES believe the official story at this point.
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
lokithecomplexJun 30, 2010
Obviously I understand that you have more experience of the event than I do.
But you do understand why people believe the assumed story. I have read up on the event and viewed both sides of the story and I still go with the consensus.
I'd guess a lot of reports on major traumatic events can be conflicting. And gaps in knowledge doesn't mean we should make extraordinary conclusions.
quinionJun 30, 2010
your an idiot.
iignotusJun 30, 2010
What a retard.
moxleyJun 30, 2010
I rest my case if you have nothing of more substance than name calling.
No wonder we're heading into an authoritarian nightmare in western societies.
(and BTW, I can pretty much guarantee that:
*my IQ is higher than yours, by at least 20 points.
*I most likely have a better job and make tons more $ (assuming you aren't typing your one sentence missives from your parent's basement)..
Not that I really give a f**k about either of those things in the grand scheme of things, but then again, I'm not the one calling strangers "idiots" and "retards" on a website.
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
xirishJun 30, 2010
You go after the previous commenters for name-calling yet then go on to engage in thinly-veiled jabs at their intelligence and social standing. Come on, dude. And patting yourself on the back in a digg comment for being "20 points higher on the IQ scale" and for "making tons more $" is both pitiful and just a plain scummy, unnecessary thing to do. That kind of behavior is something you should have left behind in jr. high.
I disagree with your opinion on 9/11 wholeheartedly but I'm not going to engage in a debate with you over the internet. It'd be like talking to a wall.
iignotusJun 30, 2010
lol u mad
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
Ah yes, the Truther Troll. A rare specimen. High in hit points and vitality but low in intelligence.
gsny88Jun 30, 2010
Too easy...
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
"Christians come to our show at the Rio and give us Bibles all the time"
" open-minded people, and I respect them for that."
People giving you bibles aren't what i consider "open minded" seems more like they are trying to convert you. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
hipmanJun 30, 2010
I wish some Muslims would come by and "convert" you by the sword.Hopefully you refuse.
artworkz918Jun 30, 2010
dumbass
mlvassalloJun 30, 2010
Mr. Benshere,
It seems like these "Christians" aren't the ones having the issue being "open minded".
Sincerely,
The Kettle, esq.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
Most of my family are Christians, i went to a religious school, and know many religious people, the difference is they dont go around giving people bibles, i consider them open minded, not the people mentioned in the article.
mdellingJun 30, 2010
Someone handing you a book is pretty harmless... they're saying "here, I think you should read this, but there's nothing I can do about it if you don't agree and throw it in the nearest trash can as soon as I walk away." That's about the most open-minded approach I can imagine to disagreeing with someone.
And obviously they are trying to convert them. The whole point of having any kind of debate is to convince either the other party or the observers that you are correct. But handing someone what you consider evidence and then leaving and letting them do whatever they want with it is the least offensive or invasive way possible. As opposed to say people on digg railing against a group they don't like, be it a political party, a faith (or lack thereof), or whatever, which is them trying to convert people by getting in their face. I'd much rather they hand me a book.
lormendiJun 30, 2010
Meh @ these guys. They are far from objective, and employ a lot of quick editing to make their opponents look bad. It's just an outlet for their lolbertarian philosophy.
I am with them on the religion thing, but the rest of their episodes look like nonsense to me.
Never a more aptly named show in TV history.
hetmanJun 30, 2010
They are pretty liberal when it comes to illegal immigration though.
jeffreydmillerJun 30, 2010
Objective? The entire show is rooted in personal opinion, and is clearly labeled and marketed as such. It's why they get away with saying and doing so much without being sued.
lormendiJun 30, 2010
Point is, you shouldn't call bulls**t on others, when you are using bulls**t tactics.
The pro-fast food episode was particularly egregious.
The Cheerleader one, on the other hand, was pretty fair I thought.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
"they are far from objective"
"It's just an outlet for their lolbertarian philosophy."
"I am with them on the religion thing"
Looks like Lormendi is far from objective.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
lormendiJun 30, 2010
I'm not on a television show, you f**king dips**t.
sartoriousJun 30, 2010
Lesson: We only demand that the people on television make consistent arguments.
Closed AccountJul 1, 2010
Congratulations! You're even less objective than I thought.
I wonder how many people on Digg and in real-life ignore you for your nerd/geekrage-laced posts.
tyrghastJun 30, 2010
At least they aren't sleazeballs, they don't hide what they do or flat out lie and try to pass it off as fact like so many of our news outlets and commentary shows.
They just tell you what they think is bulls**t, and let you see it through their eyes. They are entertainers, first and foremost. Don't take the show too seriously.
valynJul 2, 2010
Very true, even though there is more truth in their shows than most news shows in the US.
kyravonJun 30, 2010
yeah, I wish they were a little more objective and didn't just try to get cheap laughs or use edits to make their libertarian point. The show would be much more interesting then.
But then I stopped watching after their attacks on global warming that was all opinion based, no science involved.
miquonranger031Jun 30, 2010
Same reason that Mythbusters couldn't reveal how easily an enterprising hacker could steal RFID data from a credit card: they threatened them. Scientology has its lawyers, and Islam has fatwas. It's moronic that free speech can be deteriorated by anybody with a law degree as "slander" but there you go.
fredfredricksonJun 30, 2010
Slander and libel laws are fair. I don't think this has anything to do with those laws, either.
wussJun 30, 2010
technically speaking, no one is denying these guys free speech. They have full access to it, but they just don't want to deal with the potential consequences. i.e. not having a show and/or having a islamic nutcase gun them down.
miquonranger031Jun 30, 2010
It's being eroded. If they can't express the results of detailed research (biased as they are) for any reason then it's being eroded. If there are consequences, there shouldn't be. I am aware of the whole nutcase thing, and so I mentioned "fatwas".
rutledge14Jun 30, 2010
Ooo Matt Stone gets snubbed.
freakazoidzaJun 30, 2010
Ive never liked penn and teller. They just a bunch of pussies. Too scared to offend the wrong person.
hetmanJun 30, 2010
They have offended way more people than your average person. Penn & Teller BS is a great show.
slackdragonJun 30, 2010
And the beautiful thing is they don't go out and try to be offensive. They're just honest. Amazing how honest opinion can be so offensive to some.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
Islam is portrayed to be a violent religion and the Muslims as a savage people. Have you ever tried to find out how many Muslims are dying in the name of war on terror, and how many innocent women and children die for each terrorist killed? What would you do after decades of oppression by yer own governments and dictators who are supported by western governments, and then a senseless war resulting in hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths? The problem is world powers are positioning themselves for the future standoff and the Muslims are being crushed in-between. Wish these powers had enough balls to face each other directly, instead of fighting proxy wars.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
artgonJun 30, 2010
Has nothing to do with that really. Penn and Teller are just scared of the radical Islamic groups -- they know how dangerous they can be. These groups are more than likely based in the US.
wiseguy1020Jun 30, 2010
"Radical Islamic groups.....These groups are more than likely based in the US"
That is the one thing about Islamic terrorism that you definitely got wrong. Every serious attack in the U.S. involved a group that was foreign based.
zarchonJun 30, 2010
seems to me that the innocent people who are dying, per each terrorist killed, are dying mostly at the hands of those terrorists. It also seems that it isn't the oppression by their government that is causing it, it is their way of trying to get their government to be more oppressive and follow the Sharia law.
As for Penn and Teller, their show is deemed awesome when their opinion agrees with that of the Digg masses, and nothing but an entertainment program when it doesn't.
kylereJun 30, 2010
$cientologists are cowards, liars, clams, and fools, I am shocked they are being stopped from talking about them.
sanderscamperJun 30, 2010
Shucked?
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
I prefer their magic act.
lokithecomplexJun 30, 2010
Muslims or Scientologists?
mrstormyJun 30, 2010
I think he meant Christians? They all apply
elcadJun 30, 2010
Same here. I've only watched a few episodes of the show, and have found them to promote their own BS. For example their show on recycling was pretty good, but the left out metal recycling, which is very profitable, because it did not conform to the point they were making.
strad2Jun 30, 2010
The BS recycling show left out a lot of points, not just about metal recycling. For a much better analysis, check out the Economist's "The Truth About Recycling". Summary: Recycling *is* worth doing in most cases, and yes, there is a lot of room for improvement in our current methods/techniques.
elliamJun 30, 2010
You mean they cherry pick facts to support their point of view? Sounds like they just pulled this show out of a hat.
mrassmanJun 30, 2010
Yeah, most of the episodes are good though.. I do remember thinking the recycling episode was a bit lame though.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
Go back and watch the episode. They specifically mentioned aluminum as a profitable and beneficial side of recycling. Sure, they didn't spend a lot of time talking about it -- they were making an argument against "recycling hysteria."
valynJul 2, 2010
Exactly. At least someone watched more than half the show before calling it out as being false.
askantikJun 30, 2010
Their entire show is exactly what they say. None of them have any credibility on any of the issues they discuss. Sure, some of their views are amenable, but they aren't scientists. They aren't even journalists. Why do people on Digg say they love science and logic and reasoning and then listen to washed up comedic magicians?
Sure, I'm with their opinions (that's all that is presented in the show is their opinions) on anti-capital punishment, pro-drug and prostitution legalization, anti-abstinence only sex education, that carbon credits are useless, etc., but they criticize the animal rights movement while focusing on PETA, which is, technically speaking, an animal welfare group. They criticize Gandhi but defend Wal-Mart. They oppose NASA's missions and think private companies could do better. I'm sorry, but I'm with Carl Sagan (who disagrees). They talk about free trade instead of fair trade as leading to peace. For f**k's sake, they agree with Bjørn Lomborg who is a complete moron. They make fun of creationism while "not believing" in global warming. Honestly, the preceding sentence sums it all up for me.
hetmanJun 30, 2010
Yes it is there opinion and obviously you are not going to agree with them on every subject. However one of the pros of the show is that it is funny. Any ways they do not disagree with NASA's mission, they disagree with how NASA uses its funds. There seem to be a lot of waste.
askantikJun 30, 2010
NASA's annual budget is ~$17 billion. We have spent trillions on our 2 wars since 2001. That's approximately $2.4 trillion on Iraq alone or 141 times NASA's annual budget. NASA is scientific; war is... well, war. NASA's budget doesn't get people killed. NASA won't require another $350b to $700b in long-term care for injured workers like we will for Iraq and Afghanistan veterans.
And NASA employs nearly 18,000 people. NASA actually produces scientifically and culturally meaningful things instead of setting up troops in sovereign nations under the banner of "making us safer." And they do that with a lot less money. We should be giving NASA more money... if we ever get out of these wars. At any rate, you can hardly call NASA wasteful when we have s**t like this going on with no end in sight.
hetmanJun 30, 2010
I agree the wars are wastefull. That does not mean NASA is not though. I agree NASA should recieve more money however they should also recieve more oversight. Just because they do not waste as much money as the army, it does not mean they cannot improve there spending.
mtjohnsonJun 30, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
superkendallJul 2, 2010
Actually, that's the solution.
When you all stop to think about things.
jeffreydmillerJun 30, 2010
"Why do people on Digg say they love science and logic and reasoning and then listen to washed up comedic magicians?"
Bulls**t isn't the news. It's entertainment. It's FUN. The whole point of the show is to see Penn spout his often bizarre opinions based upon passion instead of logic and reasoning, childishly calling people names while Teller mugs for the camera and naked ladies dance around.
The show is like their personal Fox News without the pretense of it being unbiased or factual.
askantikJun 30, 2010
Even if Fox News didn't have those pretenses, I still wouldn't be inclined to watch it or think it's fun... But whatever floats your boat.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
propethicJun 30, 2010
Looks to me like you actually don't understand how science works.
"They make fun of creationism while "not believing" in global warming."
They say they don't know, not that they don't "believe" in it, which is much more in tune with science and logic.
askantikJun 30, 2010
Well, I don't KNOW that the reason s**t falls to the ground is because of gravity, but I have a pretty good idea that gravity is the cause. Why? Because of mounds and mounds of empirical evidence and an overwhelming scientific consensus.
99% of climatologists assert that the earth IS warming and it IS warming due to human causes. There are few (if any) peer-reviewed scientific studies done by credible people (i.e., climatologists) to suggest otherwise. And like I said, Penn & Teller aren't even scientists, so who gives a s**t what they "don't know"?
propethicJun 30, 2010
Sorry, but science and logic do not work through authority or majority. How exactly do you test the global climate? Is there another planet somewhere where we are doing these tests? A control planet as well?
david4041Jun 30, 2010
They pretty much spent the whole show on global warming showing that it was bulls**t, then took the wussy route claiming that they didn't know.
hi808Jul 1, 2010
"How exactly do you test the global climate? Is there another planet somewhere where we are doing these tests? Along with a control planet/climate?"
I seem to remember seeing a report that one the other planet's (Jupiter or Saturn) climate was getting warmer. I guess that was caused by man as well.
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
lokithecomplexJun 30, 2010
Overall I think you have some good points there. They are wrong on pollution. Like their attack on "dihydrogen monoxide" it was a magicians misdirection. What do they say about the BP spill?
I'd also point to their "passive smoking" failure.
But their point about Scientology and Islam is fair.
askantikJun 30, 2010
Yes, but then criticism of Scientology or Islam has nothing to do with science. It's mostly the "science" they discuss that I have a problem with-- as if they have ANY credibility.
And yes, some people say "blah blah, it's just their opinion." Maybe, but that doesn't mean some people won't believe what they say any way.
slvrbullet87Jun 30, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
askantikJun 30, 2010
Drug cartels provide jobs, too, but they have drawbacks. Likewise, with Wal-Mart. All bad things aren't entirely bad. And as for Gandhi, most scholars don't think he was racist because the word in question (kaffir) had a different meaning at the time. Furthermore, even if we conclusively decided that he was racist (which is a stretch, mind you), there is no evidence that later in his life (i.e., the last 40 years of his life) he still held those views.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
tertiusregentJun 30, 2010
Precisely because they are NOT scientists and use arguments and lay terms that anyone with common sense can understand. Show the same stuff using the format of a PBS show like NOVA and watch people's eyes glaze over.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
xvash2Jun 30, 2010
Actually, they focused on people because they were the opposite of an animal welfare group, killing more animals than any other organization.
wf80diditJun 30, 2010
This is an absolutely breathtaking read. I smell a Nobel Peace Prize nomination.
blooieJun 30, 2010
Good for them - saying it like it is. They simply admitted that they are pussy in regards to Islamic issue. Nothing wrong with that. Wish there are more honest people, either you have balls or you don't. I have no respect for those who tip-toe around the subject.
djskylerJun 30, 2010
It is good they take the honest step of admitting their fears over Islam.
But being blatantly honest carries a price. I can now call Bulls**t on Mr. Teller, who enjoys his freedom of speech to the maximum by producing a program where he openly criticizes opinions and belief of others without fear of legal retribution.
However, Teller refuses to confront the greatest current threat to our freedom of speech, Islam. He profits off it greatly but refuses to defend it.
So yeah, Teller won't take on Islam because this group scares you. Thanks for nothing, you greedy, pussy coward.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
cronicalJun 30, 2010
"Mr. Teller" never exercises his freedom of speech on that show. His partner Penn Gillette does so very often on the other hand. You should try watching it sometime....
Also, isn't hating someone for not speaking about something you feel they should be somewhat antithetical to the idea of supporting freedom of speech? He has the freedom to speak about or not speak about whatever he wants.
It's easy to call him a pussy when you're not on a multinational television network saying these things about Islam, all while maintaining a regular predictable show schedule in Las Vegas.
djskylerJun 30, 2010
""Mr. Teller" never exercises his freedom of speech on that show. His partner Penn Gillette does so very often on the other hand. You should try watching it sometime...."
Damn, got the two mixed up. I did watch some episodes from the first season, but once it became apparent it more about opinions being spouted in my face with Gillette's know-it-all blowhard style, I lost interest.
I like how many commenters are giving a pass to P&T because of how much of a serious threat the Islamics are to our freedom of speech. But next week if there's a Digg story criticizing Muslims, the same Diggers will be back to defend Islamics against the "xenophobic lies" about them and how they are no threat whatsoever.
charlesdkraussJun 30, 2010
I agree with him. If it wasn't for my fear of religious people retaliating I'd put a sign in my front yard saying I'm an Atheist/Anti-Theist/Skeptic. I'm too afraid they'll destroy my properly and/or hurt me or my family.
f**k religion.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
zb757Jun 30, 2010
Buy yourself a motion detector and a rifle and then put up your sign anyway
fudgefactor7Jun 30, 2010
Either "it's all ok, or none of it is." They're chicken-s**ts. They lack the courage of their convictions. It is because, exactly because, of the possible litigation and threats that Scientology and Islam need to be a topic of discussion on their show. How can they mercilessly go after large corporations and Christianity as a whole and then say "Oh, no! The Scientologists and Muslims are "special.""
f**k that. They're wimps and poseurs.
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
chronomagnusJun 30, 2010
I bet you're a real bad ass, Scientology's lawyers are not to be trifled with and people with families generally don't like putting them in harm's way, I hear being murdered sucks. They aren't revolutionary leaders, they're a pair of magicians with lives and families who do a show called "Bulls**t".Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
danj484Jun 30, 2010
Dugg for spelling "poseur" correctly.
tertiusregentJun 30, 2010
As I posted below, they're referring to a religious group (granted a radical fringe) that scared the s**t out of everyone over a generic political cartoon that every other respected world publication was afraid to reprint it.
I don't need comment on the Scientology ascpect since it's been a key part of internet history for decades. The stuff with Anonymous is kidsplay. Anyone remember anon.penet.fi? The Scientology v. Usenet wars?
mille716Jun 30, 2010
Penn has discussed this on his Rev3 show Penn Point when talking about the iSlam app that was banned by Apple.
He makes a really good point that most Muslims are nice, good people because most people are nice, good people. They just have a stupid religion.
http://revision3.com/pennpoint/islam-app-banned
diggdownerJun 30, 2010
Thanks for the link! I saw the first few episodes and I had to quit because of the dizzying camerawork. I guess they fixed it...
polartxJun 30, 2010
and least he owned up to not having any balls
jcpahlJun 30, 2010
I takes balls to admit you don't want to get murdered by fanatics, as has happened to many other critics of Islam.
polartxJun 30, 2010
and yet it requires balls to criticize islam..quite the catch 22
lexxvsJun 30, 2010
So they’ve found the formulae for truth. Fear. That’s what it takes. Don’t blame it, just saying. And that taking into account that it’s like say… Iraq or Pakistan, where terrorists blow themselves at every corner.
bingostud722Jun 30, 2010
Wow they blow themselves at every corner? It's like they are their own prostitutes
jqp123Jun 30, 2010
"... open-minded people, and I respect them for that."
I like the show but I have to disagree with Penn Jillete here.
By definition, "Christian" and "open minded" are mutually exclusive. By becoming a Christian, you're acknowledging that your mind is now closed to any and all of the 10000 or so other religions that mankind has invented down through the ages.
The only real difference between Christians and Muslims in this regard is how they express their closed mindedness.
Muslims just try to kill you --- personally.
Instead, Christians first try to convert you.
When that doesn't work, they try to get government to mandate their religion in schools and other public places.
When that doesn't work, they try to get government to send the US military to kill you on their behalf.
Personally, I find the Muslim approach to more honest and be less cowardly yet still quite despicable ... as is religion in general.
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
lunchbox37Jun 30, 2010
Thinking all Christians 'closed minded' is an extremely close minded thing to think.
jqp123Jun 30, 2010
Is it "close minded" to think that being "close minded" is a virtual mandate of Christianity? It's hard to imagine anything more closed minded than requiring people to "believe" or go to hell.
" .. for if you do not believe I am he, you shall die in your sins"
John 8:24.
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
drunkenkiteJun 30, 2010
Just like there are Christians in their basements sending death threats there's atheists like this guy. Better put your foil hat on before the Jews eat your brain.
zarchonJun 30, 2010
First thing I thought upon reading your post JQP was how close minded you were. The next thing was how your views are so out of touch with reality. But hey, you keep hanging onto that hate for Christians. I am sure that some where down the line you will benefit from it.
dwtcJun 30, 2010
"By definition, "Christian" and "open minded" are mutually exclusive. By becoming a Christian, you're acknowledging that your mind is now closed to any and all of the 10000 or so other religions that mankind has invented down through the ages."
By that logic, there's no way to be open minded, because any belief you choose (including no belief) closes you off to all other belief systems. By not being Christian, you are closing your mind to Christianity.
jqp123Jun 30, 2010
"By that logic, there's no way to be open minded, because any belief you choose (including no belief) closes you off to all other belief systems. By not being Christian, you are closing your mind to Christianity."
Wrong!
Not being Christian could mean that you don't have an opinion or lack sufficient evidence to make one.
In theory, being Christian means that you've carefully examined all the evidence and found it overwhelming. In reality, it often means you're doing what mommy and daddy told you to do. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
imhydrogenJun 30, 2010
I'm Ron Burgundy?
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
"I think the worst thing you can say about a group in a free society is that you’re afraid to talk about it" That says it all
lokithecomplexJun 30, 2010
A lot of broadcasters just ignore Islam because if they were honest and spoke about it they would face death threats. This process alienates Muslims more. This a negative cultural feedback loop.
At the same time I can understand a paranoia about Western behaviour in the Muslim world. This is a negative political feedback loop.
codymanJun 30, 2010
It's true that Islam, through its violence, is so oppressive that it now affects even us "infidels" in that yes you can say something bad / draw Muhammad or whatever, but you might get killed.... yeah you do get Christian zealots who do a lot of crazy s**t like kill abortion doctors and that, but I am confident in saying there are more truly violent muslims than there are christians
HampshirePhDJun 30, 2010
I disagree.
Fundamentalism is the problem, which religion it's attached to matters little. Islam is not an inherently violent religion anymore than Christianity is.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
"Islam is not an inherently violent religion anymore than Christianity"
Yet current evidence shows otherwise.
travelsonicJun 30, 2010
"Yet current evidence shows otherwise."
If by evidence you mean the wars and terrorism, no, that only proves Hampshire's point that the fundementalism is the problem, since THOSE are the people terrorizing the world, FUNDEMENTALISTS are the ones who take Islam and twist it as an excuse to kill people, the ones who take Christianity to preach hatrid, death of all gays/not[whatever] and in those rare cases kill abortion doctors, FUNDEMENTALISTS are the ones everybody else is trying to get away from regardless of which religion they come from.
hivoltage815Jun 30, 2010
Islam has more fundamentalists then.
uselesstodayJun 30, 2010
These guys are wonderful entertainers and magicians, but are caving pussies on -a-puppet-string when it comes to having balls ,taking risks,and standing up for principles!
najatiJun 30, 2010
Can he attack Holocaust ???
Well guess what ... He f**king can't ... So stop talking s**t about Islam you f**king ignorants.
hetmanJun 30, 2010
What exactly do you mean by attack the Holocaust. They can however make fun of jews with out getting death threats though.
rheicJun 30, 2010
We'll talk s**t about whatever we want thanks. Islam is for ****s. See.
HampshirePhDJun 30, 2010
There is so much misinformation about Islam, the stuff some people think is hateful ridiculous.
I'm not a muslim, but I have many muslim friends, and it seriously bothers me to see the kind of ignorance - people just believe, without checking into anything on their own..
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bluto36Jun 30, 2010
attack the holocaust???
danj484Jun 30, 2010
Can ignorant be used as a noun?
tanishhJun 30, 2010
There's a difference between "attacking the Holocaust" (what the heck does that even mean anyway? did you mean denying it?) and being excoriated by your peers and/or the press for it and attacking a religion for suppressing women's rights, participating in archaic and horrific public executions by stoning and the like, and generally acting like we're in the dark ages and having them respond by trying or threatening to kill you and your family.
The only place where it is specifically illegal to deny the holocaust is in Germany. It is allowed in the US just as it is allowed and even encouraged in various terrible countries in the Middle East. Your holocaust reference is quite poor, sir.
reeferchiefer42Jun 30, 2010
I liked Penn and Teller until they claimed that there is pretty much no benefit to buying and eating organic and all natural food. They're corporate talking heads just like nearly every show host.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
reeferchiefer42Jun 30, 2010
I didn't get a chance to put this in my comment:
They're "expert" they used to make such a terrible claim was from Monsanto! Now that's bulls**t!
punkcatJun 30, 2010
for the most par its true, there is no benefit.
the organic label is no guarantee of quality or being healthful.
dist0rtedwaveJun 30, 2010
I would say that they misrepresent many of the main points of that show. If I remember, one was that the organic label puts a blanket ban on genetic modified foods. They make the argument that without GM foods there would be many more starving people in the world. Same goes for the use of pesticides.
I read somewhere else (sorry no source, this could be crap) that the organic label doesn't allow you to give your animals antibiotics. While it does stop farmers from feeding well animals antibiotics, it also stops them from saving the lives of sick animals. The situation borders on animal cruelty and can end up being pretty expensive for the farmers.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
I like some of their initial shows as well until they started talking bulls**t of their own and agreeing with large corporate interests... like second hand smoke not being bad for you... wtf... i couldn't believe how they sold-out to big business. sad really.
cronicalJun 30, 2010
A lot of people seem to have trouble understanding the finer points of the arguments they make. Case in point, the argument they were making against second hand smoke is that the study, that was being used in order to justify all of these laws designed to protect people from second hand smoke, was scientifically flawed. The end. They don't say second hand smoke isn't bad for you they say they want a valid scientific study showing that to be the case.
There is a difference.
rockaway17Jul 1, 2010
I don't think they were saying that second hand smoke isn't bad for you. It clearly is.
But 50,000 deaths per year annually from second-hand smoke? That is complete and utter... bulls**t.
enantiodromiaJun 30, 2010
There is no benefit, so it would have been pretty hard to base a whole show on that.
For every 'reason' you supply for why organic food is 'better', I will give you a reason why it's worse.
Organic foods actually use MORE pesticides than normal, and since they are fertilized with s**t, carry a higher risk of e. coli and other biological pathogens.
elliamJun 30, 2010
You don't need to fertilize with animal waste.
enantiodromiaJun 30, 2010
Yet, they do...
skidooerJul 14, 2010
@elliam to get enough animal waste on the field to satisfy its fertilization requirements, you would have to apply it in quantities large enough that it will leach into the water as soon as it rains, polluting the rivers and lakes. This also gets the city folks all up in arms.
Farmers cannot win.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
Because organic food companies don't have corporate talking heads, right?
Closed AccountJul 1, 2010
The link he provided is just an attack on their character. It doesn't comment one way or another on the truth of their claims.
reeferchiefer42Jun 30, 2010
I liked Penn and Teller until they claimed that there is pretty much no benefit to buying and eating organic and all natural food. They're corporate talking heads just like nearly every show host.
Source: http://www.green-blog.org/2009/08/05/penn-teller-claims-organic-food-is-bulls**t-fails-to-mention-that-their-expert-is-paid-by-monsanto/
Their "expert" was paid by Monsanto!
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
reeferchiefer42Jun 30, 2010
Sorry for the blank post.
danj484Jun 30, 2010
travelsonicJun 30, 2010
How the f**k is it possible to make a blank post?
danj484Jun 30, 2010
HampshirePhDJun 30, 2010
They already tackled organizaed religion in general, so for them to take on Islam alone would be problematic.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
They've never done an episode about religion in general. They have done one about the bible and one about creationism, so an episode about the Quran or Islam is overdue.
bohicatwentytwoJun 30, 2010
They did a whole episode on Roman Catholics, specifically the Vatican, so that argument doesn't hold water.
Closed AccountJun 30, 2010
I would also like to see an episode about American support for Israel, but I doubt that will happen.
supplysidejebusJun 30, 2010
Because Penn is a jew and he wouldn't want to attack his own people.
uthmanJun 30, 2010
Even if what (some) of his people are doing is wrong.
jinchoungJul 1, 2010
there are lots of jews who don't like what israel is doing. there is NO necessary conflict here by honest, thinking people.
0260Jul 3, 2010
teller is a jew. penn is a newfie
worldofsmutJul 7, 2010
Let's see. America supports Israel, because they have common values and a common enemy. Israel gives America its full support, and access to incredible military technology and training which helps save American lives.
Yep, I can see that being a hilarious episode...
Perhaps they could do one about American support for the Arab countries, which consists of billions of dollars given to countries, and "Death to America" being the payback. Now that's bulls**t!
krekkoJun 30, 2010
I Love Penn and Teller, and respect them for what they choose to call out and what they choose not to.
r3m1x645Jun 30, 2010
Penn Jillette has a podcast called "Penn Point." He talked about this subject alone for a couple of minutes.
Heres the itunes link:
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/why-not-even-sarah-silverman/id373583569?i=83882446
aubieguy333Jun 30, 2010
Commenting so I can listen to that when I'm not at work.
doublebaconsodaJul 4, 2010
Get to work! I am your boss(disregard if you are the boss) and I shove hot dogs in places where the sun don't shine.
belebihJul 1, 2010
Thanks for the info. Still...
http://revision3.com/pennpoint/sarahsilverman
f**k iTunes.