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krayziekydAug 9, 2010
I'm going to implant the correct spelling of "Michael Caine" in your mind.
distraughtiteAug 10, 2010
http://i.imgur.com/5pl7x.jpg
lorensingleyAug 9, 2010
Hahaha this is a good one. I LOLd.
michaelgurbiszAug 10, 2010
lulz, always for the lulz.....
AgentGotseAug 10, 2010
Just press the digg button if you don't have anything to say...
kwcarpenterAug 10, 2010
Hahaha this is a good one. I DUGGd.
gottlosAug 9, 2010
Might have something to do with how much influence the grandmother has... I got from the phone conversation with his kids that she wasn't on his side.
Closed AccountAug 10, 2010
I'm not sure how willing the US government would be to grant passports to the children of a man who murdered their mother when he is still on the loose and out of the country. Especially if he is still their legal guardian and has to sign for their passports.
fxpookyAug 10, 2010
Wouldn't just getting someone to kidnap them and bring them outside of the USA be a little more simple than 4 level-deep Inception with a 6-person team?
I love Inception regardless, though :P
daimposterAug 10, 2010
I love inception....but FXPooky is right. Also, if Leo, err Cobb is actually on the run, i believe he would loose custody of his children so Michael Caine would probalby be the guardian and can fly them to France. Just saying.
jfallon126Aug 10, 2010
Also, it looks like he wanted two things to happen and that's why he (maybe) set up this complicated Inception for himself:
1) Be with his kids permanently (grandmother seems to be a big element there as you said, and his kids applying for Visas would probably be a red flag. Even in France he was trying to be low-key.)
2) He wanted to resolve his issues with his wife. Running the it's-all-a-dream interpretation, it seems like for some reason he couldn't accomplish that in real life and needed this byzantine plan to play out to help him get closure. But he needed to think it was real for it to be fully effective, hence the whole "catharsis in dream" theme they mention frequently.
fugeesnfunionsAug 10, 2010
Someone left a comment under the article that gave a pretty good "counter argument" to the meme.
His true dilemma was being chased and bullied around the world because of the crimes he allegedly committed. Having his kids with him for the ride could only make things worse. He needed a solution that stopped the running and let him return home.
Makes sense to me I guess.. Then again IT'S A f**kING ACTION MOVIE, not a documentary. If I wanted real life I'd go outside.
daimposterAug 10, 2010
Roman Polanski has no problems in France & Europe. Why would Cobb? He's not being chased and bullied around the world because of his wife......it's because of his job.
fugeesnfunionsAug 11, 2010
Yeah except for the fact that...
Roman Polanski is REAL.. And Inception IS A MOVIE.
daimposterAug 11, 2010
@fugees: exactly my point. if in real life it's not hard to go the europe and not be chased by local authorities so why make the statement that it would/should be different in movies. In fact, Polanski was actually convicted while Cobb is just wanted for questioning.
executexAug 9, 2010
But then there wouldn't be unnecessary violence, explosions, over-dramatic interactions with a crazy wife just like in shutter island, and pseudo-philosophical dream situations.
meltz014Aug 10, 2010
What about variable-gravity fight scenes?
rhumu17Aug 10, 2010
no, that part was necessary
anonymous6237Aug 10, 2010
Variable-gravity fight scenes (when executed as well as they were in Inception) are always necessary.
matu4251Aug 10, 2010
somebody didn't sleep well last nigth?
ifeiceAug 9, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
Closed AccountAug 10, 2010
Maybe because you were trying to figure out if the ending was real.
drunkenkiteAug 10, 2010
I was thinking the same thing when i read that.
angelcomaAug 10, 2010
I thought about it and just assumed he did not want to take his kids out of America with him because people where hunting him down. You know, being a good parent and all.
But that wouldn't make sense, wouldn't they hunt him down in America as well?
daimposterAug 10, 2010
who is hunting him? I think those hunting him are because of his work dealings and not his wife. So they will hunt in europe or the US.
glbernsAug 10, 2010
Because the movie made it very clear that the grandmother hated him and thought that he did kill Mal so she wouldn't let her grandchildren move to france to be with their murderer of a father.
mas514Aug 10, 2010
So when the grandmother sees him in America with the children she wouldn't rat him out or anything...
scobizAug 10, 2010
F
daimposterAug 10, 2010
why is mas514 being dugg down? He didn't exactly get cleared the right away....the charges just disappeared. So it shouldn't change the opinion of the mother.
brockorrAug 10, 2010
He loved his kids and wanted what was best for them. He probably decided that although them moving to ____ would let them see him again, it wouldn't have been the right decision for his kids.
Closed AccountAug 10, 2010
http://rorr.im
visionviperAug 10, 2010
http://rorr.im/digg.com/odd_stuff/counter_inception_pic/
(for those that need the full link)
mizuhriAug 10, 2010
The link blobzorz posted is the direct link. Whenever you are in the thread that http://rorr.im is posted in, it will take you right to it. You don't have to post the whole link. I don't understand why people always post the full link after someone posted the rorr.im link before hand.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
blendermfAug 10, 2010
The direct link works because of an HTTP referrer, and some people block HTTP referrers, and so they need the direct link.
antdudeAug 10, 2010
Ditto, we don't like web sites tracking our histories.
mizuhriAug 12, 2010
@blendermf Thank you, I honestly didn't know that.
revenger543Aug 10, 2010
Inception wasn't f**king ambiguous. Maybe lacking some explanation in some areas, but not ambiguous.
areallygoodnameAug 10, 2010
It might be a dream it might not be a dream. That's ambiguous.
revenger543Aug 10, 2010
Yeah, because movies have never had that type of ending. /s
starphishAug 10, 2010
It amazes me that people think this. He's in a goddamn dream. His kids are the same age, wearing the same clothes. He sees his kids exactly how he has seem them in previous dreams.
He's in a dream. Stop debating this.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
areallygoodnameAug 10, 2010
@starphish
And if you read below there are people arguing the exact obvious and suggesting it's clear cut for him being awake.
Nolan went out of his way to make the movie ambiguous and he clearly succeeded.
Personally i always liked the theory that Mal was right and he was in a coma the whole movie. The totems simply behaved based on whether or not the person believed they were in a dream, not whether or not they actually were in a dream. It explains the first scene and the last scene being exactly the same but with Saito and Cobb switching lines which indicates that wasn't a flashforward at the start, It's a recurring dream. Also just imagine relatives visiting him in the hospital and the lines they say becoming part of the dream and you get an interesting scenario in that it makes sense.
Cobbs father: Come back to reality, Dom.
(slight pause after an experating sigh)
Cobbs father: The kids need their father
etc.
What Cobb says could well be a father leaning over a bed wishing his comatose son would wake up.
Likewise
Mal: You promised! You promised!
Mal: You said we'd be together! You said we'd grow old together!
In both those situations I've taken Cobbs lines out and the dialogue of those characters actually works on their own. Cobb could be in a coma with relatives talking to him, wishing/demanding he would wake up.
Even the phone call where he briefly talks to his kids before they are ushered away fits this situation.
Not all of Mals or the Professors lines work in this situation but it certainly could be dream where some real lines are incorporated into the dream along with some dreamt up ones. The movie is certainly open to people interpreting it anyway they wish and anyone saying it is clear cut has missed the point.
Closed AccountAug 10, 2010
@AReallyGoodName: interesting points but you fail to show why the kids are the exact same age wearing the exact same cloths in the exact same position as his previous dreams.
duneadxAug 10, 2010
I kind of think the scenes with Mal are her trying to re-enter the dream to wake Cobb up. Ellen Paige's character enters his dream without him knowing it so I would assume if Mal did wake up, she could go back in to get him if she chose to.
areallygoodnameAug 10, 2010
@Alkali
Well my interpretation is that he is comatose the entire movie. With real life lines from his father, wife and children being incorporated into the dream. That fits with things like that happening. He keeps seeing that same image. So yes he was possibly in a dream the whole time.
btw. Nolan really mind f**ked everyone on that scene as he did actually use different child actors. They are in fact different children in the same cloths playing out the same scene. So they aren't the same kids the same age at all.
They were played by Claire Geare & Magnus Nolan at the start and then later they were played by Taylor Geare & Johnathan Geare at the end.
alchemist11Aug 10, 2010
One of the costume designers said the clothes that the kids are wearing are NOT the same as his dream. The same position could just be for dramatic effect.
covertbadgerAug 10, 2010
"That's my interpretation and there's really no way to prove it wrong. Dreams can break any rule you set for them"
Your interpretation doesn't cater for the fact that Cobb (and Saito) killed themselves in limbo, which returns them to reality. The is one of the few rules that the film establishes. If your interpretation is correct, then this rule is broken and basically all bets are off, because there is no longer any foundation points to the plot.
The end of the film is in reality.
gottlosAug 10, 2010
If the whole thing is a dream then anything said in the dream about the rules of a dream may be a bit sketchy don't you think?
gebhardjAug 10, 2010
Definitely not the same clothes and the kids are definitely older. Can't recommend dling it for obvious reasons, but it seriously is the best way to compare... and you will need to view them a number of times to notice the difference (the difference is subtle)
dforspidAug 10, 2010
I had the same thought about him being in a coma the whole time, made me think of the episode "The Sting" from Futurama.
trevorbradleyAug 10, 2010
@Covertbadger: We didn't see Cobb kill himself. The scene transition between the two points is abrupt and odd. He certainly thinks he did.
I have to agree with AReallyGoodName on this one, though I'm still uncertain if we was dreaming from the start, or still dreaming after he "woke up" on the plane. It's a good ambiguous ending.
wtfhaxxAug 10, 2010
And threads like this are the reason why Inception is going to win Picture of the Year.
eadwyn1Aug 10, 2010
I'm not sure why people think he isn't in a dream at the end. The kids are the exact same age and to me the clothes are the exact same. However the biggest point is that the token he uses never stopped spinning and the movie even fades away on that point.
Now all I'm trying to get a grasp of is what is the purpose of being in his dream and who is behind it. It could be as someone else said that they are trying to get him to wake up and come back to reality.
The architect that comes into the dream was introduced to him so it wasn't his idea and as mentioned earlier in the movie the best way to find someone's secrets is to know every last detail of the person which the architect definitely found out throughout the movie and was put into situations where he was forced to share the information. I think that the "safe" of his secrets is his kids which is why they are behind the US where he can't enter and at the end of the movie even though he recognizes that the token is still spinning he stops caring and gives into the invaders of his mind by going to his kids.
Closed AccountAug 11, 2010
"Your interpretation doesn't cater for the fact that Cobb (and Saito) killed themselves in limbo, which returns them to reality. The is one of the few rules that the film establishes."
@covertbadger
wrong. the film does not establish this as fact. this is one of the many things it leaves ambiguous. IF his wife is really dead and commited suicide in the real world, then it would be established that death in limbo woke one up. BUT IF the wife was correct and they were really dreaming, nothing is guaranteed about death in limbo at all.
bizkit00Aug 10, 2010
lacking explanation huh, kinda like "ambiguous - am·big·u·ous - –adjective - lacking clearness or definiteness; obscure; indistinct"
Yea, that kind of lacking explanation.
katoskidAug 10, 2010
Agreed.
http://revolvingdoorproject.net/2010/07/23/inception-what-happened-at-the-end/
areallygoodnameAug 10, 2010
The ring shows his acceptance of his wifes death. Yet by that stage he had accepted his wife was dead both in the dream and in real life. So that doesn't actually prove anything.
revenger543Aug 10, 2010
How does the ring show his acceptance of her death? If he accepted it completely, it would resonate within his subconscious. If he accepts it in real life, he accepts it in the dream world. But because it still haunts him in the dream world, it haunts him in real life too. Therefore, he never accepted his wife's death until the end of the movie.
areallygoodnameAug 10, 2010
He accepted Mals death when Mal was shot and killed by Ariadne in front of him. From that point on you can't judge whether he is dreaming or not by the wedding ring as Mal is dead in both his dreams and in real life.
The scene at the end where he no longer has the ring isn't a clear cut case of him being awake.
Closed AccountAug 10, 2010
The main flaw I see with this logic is that it assumes that Mal committed suicide, what if she was right and they were still dreaming? Cobb specifically said they were experimenting with dreams within dreams when they fell into limbo, this implies at least two levels down. Yet they only killed themselves once (one level up). We know this death wouldn't snap them all the way back up because they fell into limbo again at the end of the movie and death pushed them up one level. So from the logic of the film we can assume that the entire movie took place in a "top level" dream while the inception acts took place in dreams within dreams. Cobb's totem is untrustworthy (it wasn't his after all it was his wife's, and people needed to use their own totem). The ring doesn't mean much either other than that Cobb believed Mal's to be dead in the "top level" dream (which he believed to be real).
revenger543Aug 10, 2010
Alkali, if his wife was right that that world was still a dream, she would have woken up in reality and then woken Cobb up, who was probably laying right next to her.
HOWEVER, I don't understand how you need to "kick" someone in real life to get them out of a dream, but you can also "kick" yourself out of limbo? That's what happened to Ariadne (she didn't die when she jumped from the building with Fischer, her ear-balance woke her up back into the snow level.) Maybe that was a movie mistake/inconsistency? Can someone explain this?
covertbadgerAug 10, 2010
"That's what happened to Ariadne (she didn't die when she jumped from the building with Fischer, her ear-balance woke her up back into the snow level.) Maybe that was a movie mistake/inconsistency? Can someone explain this?"
The kick is required because they were sedated. In a 'normal' dream, dying wakes you up. In a sedated dream, however, dying sends you to limbo and a synchronised death/kick is required to wake.
wageslaveAug 10, 2010
There wasn't a death/kick needed to move upward in the dream levels, a death would kick you down to limbo rather than up into your body, as your body wasn't capable of waking up due to the sedation. Only the kick could bring you awake due to the "myoclonic jerk" reaction of falling while sleeping. Ever fall when you're asleep? Talk about an overdrive of adrenaline.
Being in limbo wouldn't have been an issue if it wasn't for the time dilation effects of it. Too much time wandering in limbo can cause your personality to breakdown and you'd wake up a raving loonie or a vegetable.
Fortunately Cobb and Tadashi both had very stable personalities. Tadashi was there for about 70 subjective years, Cobb for about 30.
That's why they just woke up when the sedation wore off and they killed themselves.
crossfox17Aug 10, 2010
The entire point of the ending was to convey ambiguity and uncertainty about the authenticity of reality.
okonisfreeAug 10, 2010
Strongly worded comment. It's clear you have deep feelings about the ambiguity of Inception.
revenger543Aug 11, 2010
I'm glad you noticed :).
Closed AccountAug 11, 2010
inception was the definition of ambiguous. there exists the possibility that examining every scene in what is proposed to be "reality" in the movie would show some type of gravity shift, but without that evidence, there is no definite determination of whether or not the end was a dream. THEN if the end was a dream, there is no determination whether the entire thing was a dream, it was all a dream from the point after he was unable to check his top, or if he simply does not come back out of limbo the last time.
anyone who claims that there is any clear cut explanation about the end that doesn't include definite facts showing he's in a dream while it's proposed to be in reality is lying. as far as i can tell, the movie was made such that multiple interpretations are entirely acceptable.
Closed AccountAug 10, 2010
That face at the end is priceless
random255Aug 10, 2010
The Immaculate Inception is where Mary convinced Joseph that it was God's baby.
bfogarty27Aug 10, 2010
immaculate election
steve holt is a bastard!
gneissisniceAug 10, 2010
The Ejaculate Inception is what happens to everyone else.
Closed AccountAug 10, 2010
"Sorry, Joseph. I f**ked God while you were out in the fields. You'll just have to accept that."
ltpenguinAug 10, 2010
Just watched this movie today. It's the best thing to come out of Hollywood for quite a while.
Closed AccountAug 10, 2010
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/8199/1280674731188.jpg
stinkyliciousAug 10, 2010
But...that first one was Arthur's dream.
boejanglesAug 10, 2010
I sense a new meme brewing... Inception - Cobb wantsa BJ.
make it so!
vinng86Aug 10, 2010
This is way better than the submission
plopfishAug 10, 2010
http://cheezcomixed.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/totemp1.jpg
iimboAug 10, 2010
http://imgur.com/xO1fm
alexbarnes94Aug 10, 2010
Dugg so I can find this comment (and the links) later
russ3Aug 10, 2010
I am suprised this movie isn't responsible for a rash of suicides. Sometimes I start to wonder if this world is real, and the movie makes a pretty convincing arguement to find out. Fortunately I kind of enjoy this world and want to see where it goes.
chandler63Aug 10, 2010
youre a moron
ianmgullAug 10, 2010
no youre are
atranoxviiAug 10, 2010
your both idiots now go sit in you're corners.
igorunchainedAug 10, 2010
ah...just like the flame wars of yore.
jbmar412Aug 10, 2010
I think you mean the flame wars of youre
guestaccountAug 10, 2010
omg ur all dumb - i r leet
jrackowAug 10, 2010
I can't tell if AtraNoxVII is being ironic.
centranAug 10, 2010
Well why don't you spin the top and find out... Just a word of warning that the movie got it partiatly wrong. It needs to be a dreidel.
packers2009Aug 10, 2010
Actually the top isn't HIS totem so therefore he shouldn't do that to see if it's real. He should find his own totem first beforehand!
magnesAug 10, 2010
But if you select a totem while you are already dreaming it wouldn't tell you anything.
vierceAug 10, 2010
http://www.dramabutton.com/
@magnes
dbetaAug 10, 2010
This world is way too f**ked up to be a dream.
alexbarnes94Aug 10, 2010
A nightmare, perhaps?
dillpiccololAug 10, 2010
You're a towel!
tearlockAug 10, 2010
The genius of Inception is that we'll never be able to tell whether the details of the events in the plot are clues or plot holes.
soilAug 10, 2010
I hate when plot holes go unfilled.
atranoxviiAug 10, 2010
I hate when holes aren't filled in general.
Closed AccountAug 10, 2010
f**king donuts.
darzeecompanyAug 10, 2010
...how do they work?
diggdontbanmeAug 10, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
devsingh1359Aug 10, 2010
Kinda like the first few seasons of LOST
rpatrick819Aug 10, 2010
And the last few.
Closed AccountAug 11, 2010
more than likely they're all clues that do not lead to a definite answer. they support multiple interpretations.
smt12Aug 10, 2010
Most overrated movie of all time.
Closed AccountAug 10, 2010
Clearly you didn't see Avatar.
xtmno3Aug 10, 2010
Stay on topic, this thread isn't about Avatar.
Closed AccountAug 10, 2010
It's not about overrated movies either.
jeebodonAug 10, 2010
IMMA LET YOU FINISH!
bravo1995Aug 10, 2010
No, you just didn't like a movie that almost everyone else did. That doesn't make it overrated.
asus3000Aug 10, 2010
I agree. But if you're into watching James Bond dodge bullets in a Matrix wannebe movie, then I guess it's great..
sinistersaracenAug 10, 2010
You kinda sorta just killed any credibility you may have had.
durruticolumnAug 10, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
revenger543Aug 10, 2010
Exactly. I'm not losing any sleep over whether it was all a dream or not. It isn't important to the movie; it's a brilliant ending but of the least importance.
One could say that whether Cobb was dreaming or not, the fact remains that in the end he got over his insecurities and haunting of his wife.
mcprogrammerAug 10, 2010
I think that's at least a major part of it, but I think it can be about both. I would say it isn't *only* about dreams.
Closed AccountAug 11, 2010
i view the movie as being one about a man who is coming to terms with his dead wife and the idea that he was responsible for it. the concept of shared dreaming was a plot device with which this fundamental story was presented.
revenger543Aug 12, 2010
Plot device sounds bad. Both aspects of the movie were so amazing that both of them had to work with the other to make an epic movie.
blinker265Aug 10, 2010
Touché.
kibblesnbittsAug 10, 2010
I swear that somebody is going to introduce a new theory/explanation that will blow my mind five years down the line. f**k you Chris Nolan.
secretmiracleAug 10, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
firecellAug 10, 2010
Thanks for actually addressing the issue at hand.
kernel16Aug 10, 2010
The US can't even extradite Roman Polanski, I'm sure Cobb would have been fine living in France with his kids, plus it's nice there. Also, Cobb only went there to meet his father, he didn't actually live there.
lantzaAug 10, 2010
Wait, where was Michael Caine's character teaching? Europe somewhere right? So why was the grandmother living in the US by herself with the kids while their dad and grandfather were overseas?
freeicecreamAug 10, 2010
Perhaps once Mal killed herself and Cobb fled the grandmother flew out to live with them. Also it seemed that the grandmother didn't believe Cobb was entirely innocent because she hung up on him when he was talking to his kids.
demdudeAug 10, 2010
You do realize that every child has two grandmothers and two grandfathers, right?
larssonk22Aug 10, 2010
technically
genadyAug 10, 2010
You think Michael Caine can be tied down to one woman?!?!?!
pimpwillyAug 10, 2010
When you're in a dream, everything makes sense; its only when you awake that you realize something was off
rhumu17Aug 10, 2010
kind of like in the movie!!! wow! i just realized that while watching the movie, everything seems to make sense but now that i'm reading more about it and reading comments from this whole page, it seems WAYYY more confusing! =O
... or i could just be losing it... maybe i need to take a break
pimpwillyAug 10, 2010
Or, just accept the fact he's stuck in a dream from before the credits roll, and his wife was right all along. It makes more sense that way ; )
redhouse67Aug 10, 2010
I hate these things. They make me feel stupid for not thinking of it first =P
Closed AccountAug 10, 2010
"you can come up with a good theory and find corroborating evidence in the movie for it"
But here's the problem. When you have a theory, it doesn't matter how much evidence you have to support it. You should be looking for evidence that disproves it. If you think he is dreaming then you shouldn't be looking for more evidence that he's dreaming but rather exhaustively considering everything that would disprove he's dreaming. Then you'd have an argument.
This is a point most conspiracy theorists miss.
ebcreasonerAug 10, 2010
ramen!
solkreAug 10, 2010
YOU CAN'T PROVE HE DOESN'T EXIST!
Wait, what're we talking about?
dlite922Aug 10, 2010
God
chikenshitAug 10, 2010
is it me or is leanardo and levit s**tty actors
random255Aug 10, 2010
Given those as the only two options, I'd say it's you.
bravo1995Aug 10, 2010
is it me or are you s**tty speller
Also, it's you.
boeremaAug 10, 2010
And all of you are poor grammarians.
sniper117Aug 10, 2010
mirror? it just goes to some homepage bulls**t for me
milan91Aug 10, 2010
http://www,rorr.im
xenielAug 10, 2010
Dugg because the show's so ambiguous we have to assume it's a smart joke about it.
volaitle86Aug 10, 2010
mirror
http://www.noob.us/pictures/counter-inception/
amgamer23Aug 10, 2010
I haven't even seen the movie yet, but the handful of images like this that I have seen for the movie are just hilarious.
wilywondrAug 10, 2010
Save your money.
solkreAug 10, 2010
And buy a blu-ray copy when it's released.
vashth3stampedeAug 10, 2010
someone posted http://rorr.im earlier in the comments, but for those of you who don't know that clicking that opens up the mirror directly:
http://rorr.im/digg.com/odd_stuff/Counter_Inception_picComment is buried, click here to see the rest.
mburke1124Aug 10, 2010
Nice work.
emjayseaAug 10, 2010
I'm late to this party, but I want to rip on Inception a little bit, so here it goes. As much as I enjoyed the movie (6.5 out of 10), the "science" behind it had a ton of problems. I'll mention just one. Why would one need a "kick" in the dream world to wake them up to that dream so that they could then be awoke by another "kick" in the real world? A dream world is a dream world, and dreams don't obey physics, and that ignores that fact that there really is no such thing as a dream within a dream. You can dream that your dreaming self is having a dream, but that's still just one actual dream. Ultimately, I couldn't stop from turning these things over in my mind while I was watching the movie, so it failed to suspend my disbelief.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
jayhawk88Aug 10, 2010
Perhaps you could explain it like this:
Inception makes clear that the process used for entering a dream state (i.e., getting hooked up to the machine, pushing the button to inject you with some kind of chemical to induce dreaming) is far different from entering a dream state (REM sleep) naturally, which in most people can take many minutes to over an hour after falling asleep to achieve. Perhaps once you have experienced, or are at least familiar with, this process, you become aware of it within your dream as well. Note that in the dreams it was still necessary to have a device, and to hook everyone up to it, to enter the second or third dream state. Even though it is not real, having the device present in the dream, and using it, is perhaps a cue to the subconscious to "begin" the next level of dreaming, or perhaps the subconscious is tricked into doing so.
As for the multiple/synchronized levels of "kicks", I believe this was intentional on the part of Leo's team; to wake the mark up instantaneously from each dream, so that he wouldn't fully realize what was going on.
Closed AccountAug 10, 2010
Add to this the fact that dream time is not slower than real time. It's been proven in sleep studies by one of the foremost dream researchers. See figure 2: http://www.lucidity.com/slbbs/index.htmlComment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountAug 11, 2010
the idea that a dream time isn't slower than real time based off of lucid dreaming is faulty. there is a large difference between what you subjectively experience while not lucid in a dream and when you are lucid. there are also varying degrees of lucidity while dreaming.
reading more into that, i would argue that the research points to incorrect results (though based off of admittedly anecdotal evidence, which of course, doesn't mean that much). while first lucid dreaming and i would try to walk, i would wake myself up from moving my legs. were the results they give correct, this wouldn't have happened, as they claim voluntary muscles are paralyzed during REM sleep. it actually took some practice to not wake myself up in this manner.
Closed AccountAug 11, 2010
I considered that as well, but since this is the only evidence that exists, it's worth noting. You cannot measure your subjective time, so there's not much way you can dispute these facts. And how did you know that your legs were moving while you were sleeping? Sleep paralysis isn't perfect - watch any animal as it sleeps and you'll realize that. Also, there are disorders like sleep walking. But for the most part, you are paralyzed. It's an evolutionary measure to ensure that you don't walk into danger while asleep.
srgordyAug 10, 2010
You make some good points, but I never let the fact that there's no sound in space or such a thing as lightsabers ruin Star Wars for me.
Not putting Inception on any level near SW, though :-)
donotclickjimAug 10, 2010
Because the person whose dream was being invaded (their conscious) didn't know they were dreaming. If they did, their dreams started to fall apart. That's why in the scene where Ariadne started messing with the physics of the dream world Cobb warned her what would happen (his subconscious and conscious started to become aware and killed her).
emjayseaAug 10, 2010
It is just a movie, but it's up to them to suspend the audience's disbelief. They failed to do that for me, but then I might have missed (?) the part where they explained how important the little machine was to the process.
alchemist11Aug 10, 2010
The "science" of most science fiction movies aren't accurate, that's why it's science *fiction*. They can just use ideas from science and bend them whichever way they want. Unless you're going to say The Matrix was bad because you can't climb on walls in real life, and Star Wars is bad because, as someone else said, there's no sound in space.
emjayseaAug 10, 2010
The movie must be so constructed so as to suspend the audience's disbelief. They failed to do that for me. "Fantastic" movies, such as Star Wars, or, say, The Fifth Element, have an easier job of it, because everything's out the window. It's harder for those writers/directors who want to promote "realism." Also, this "science" figured prominently in the movie, as in, it was talked about throughout the movie, as well as demonstrated. That's not the same as the Matrix, for instance, where the ludicrous "human copper-top," thing is mentioned and then doesn't really figure into it again. We just know the humans are there, kept in a sleep state, with their consciousness plugged into a system (and that part is believable, because that's where we'd like to take our computer generated worlds, that's what we're trying to do with special suits and goggles, etc.).Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
kyfoeAug 10, 2010
The movie makes sense to me. I feel like the people who haven't experienced a double dream have a harder time to grasp the ideas in the movie. I don't think it's actually one dream.
From the real world it looks like one dream, but while you're dreaming you have no idea that you're in a dream or even a double dream. You can actually count them when you wake up. I've had a triple dream and I remember telling people about the double dream I just had and thank god it was just a dream, but then bad things started happening again and I woke up again.
It seems like double dreams repeat themselves. The exact same bad stuff always happens again when I wake up and that's when it scares me because I thought I had already woken up.
emjayseaAug 10, 2010
You can't actually be in a double dream. There's no such thing. You can dream that you're dreaming, but it's still just one dream. You can dream that you've woken up (repeatedly, even), only to find that you're still dreaming, but that's still just one dream. One very sucky dream, or at least they have been when I've had them.
rhumu17Aug 10, 2010
i second this
saintsfanAug 10, 2010
That happened to me when I had to take an ambien. It was weird I woke up and told my roommate about my nightmare only to be attached for real. Then I woke up an realized that it wasn't real either. This repeated several times until I finally was able to get up for real.
motty32Aug 10, 2010
I wrote entirely way too much about the very same thing after seeing the film:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/board/thread/167221895
Closed AccountAug 11, 2010
@emjaysea
except there isn't really enough known about dreams and how much can actually be simulated in a dream to determine whether or not you could simulate a dream within a dream. a lot of this also rests on how you define a dream to begin with. as they're commonly defined, dreaming that you are asleep and having a dream has no logical reason to not be viewed as a dream within a dream.
this doesn't, though, give rise to any need to have a kick from inside the previous level of dream, but that's where the viewers suspension of disbelief comes in. they're doing something that is entirely foreign to ANYTHING we've experience with the shared dreaming experience given within the movie. NEVER in any dream that you've had was your consciousness populating someone else's design by way of a device connected intravenously to more than one person. despite the fact that you cannot relate directly to anything they're doing, you still feel the need to say what is or is not possible or needed in that context? people never cease to amaze me... -_-
emjayseaAug 11, 2010
You can call someone dreaming that they are having a dream a "dream within a dream" but there is logically only one dream going on, so, what's the f**king point? A dream within a dream is complete nonsense. A bit of fancy, of fiction, intended to entertain audiences. What's up with the nutters wanting their dreams to be real worlds?
larssonk22Aug 10, 2010
Even though the US government and the random corp are chasing him down, he still managed to see his father. So it is perfectly plausible that his children could have flown out to Paris to meet him. But then, the gran could snitch or the kids could let it slip they had seen their father which would land Cobbs senior in trouble.
kernel16Aug 10, 2010
The US can't extradite Roman Polanski, I'm sure Cobb is fine living in France with his kids.
aronnycAug 10, 2010
Lots of ways you can explain this:
1) What Cobb is doing is dangerous and illegal. He doesn't want to endanger his children's or his father's lives.
2) He also doesn't want to risk exposing his location.
3) The children are under protection and cannot be easily flown out of the U.S. (Mal did write those letters saying to keep the children away from him, so whoever has the kids now is probably not going to easily let them leave the country, knowing that they're probably going to see Cobb).
But more than anything, this is missing the point of the story, which is awesome.
taylsAug 10, 2010
Also, Cobb is all over the place while not at home. He lives in a different hotel every night, it would seem. Good points, great film.
ieatskunkAug 10, 2010
"Error establishing a database connection"
Buried.
wilywondrAug 10, 2010
I am going to take it to another level. I will go into a dream within a dream within a dream(and are you ready for this) within another dream! I bursted out laughing when this line(one level short of mine of course) came up in the movie.
I guess hype can sell anything.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
ch0riz0Aug 10, 2010
No one likes you.
feeblemanAug 10, 2010
http://www.chud.com/articles/articles/24477/1/NEVER-WAKE-UP-THE-MEANING-AND-SECRET-OF-INCEPTION/Page1.html
rumbeefAug 10, 2010
Spoilerific! I was reading this article a few minutes ago, and though I disagree with it's conclusions it is an interesting read. Especially if you think about it as it relates to the creator/viewer relationship. In a way it also becomes a relative look at our own perception of reality.
jenniferpeiAug 10, 2010
This guy still looks young even he is old
motty32Aug 10, 2010
I wrote entirely too much about the very same thing after seeing the film:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/board/thread/167221895
aladinsaneAug 10, 2010
I don't know the answer, but I'm fairly sure no fewer than 10,000 Fanboys are out with pitchforks and torches to loudly insist that there were a million PERFECTLY VALID REASONS why they didn't just fly his kids to France...Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
doofdoofsfAug 10, 2010Staff
Touché!
aserer511Aug 10, 2010
hahah
that is genius
iimboAug 10, 2010
http://imgur.com/xO1fm
Closed AccountAug 10, 2010
If movies were fully logical then they just wouldn't work.