cracked.com — I don't usually write about politics. It's important, but something I want no part of -- kind of like a raw sewage treatment facility. But frankly, I haven't been this upset in a long time. And it's due to the logic-hating, herd-mentality rhetoric that some have been flinging in opposition to the so-called 'Ground Zero Mosque.\
Aug 20, 2010 View in Crawl 4
pvisi111Aug 20, 2010
What pisses me off about the whole debate is the amount of religious intolerance I've seen being spewed from people's mouths. Muslims are generally nice people and 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% aren't terrorists, but you'd be surprised by how few little people know this.
Closed AccountAug 20, 2010
Tarantula's aren't poisonous. They are mild mannered, and rarely bite even when provoked.
Now, knowing that means complete love and tolerance when you find one crawling on you, right ?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountAug 20, 2010
Actually, that makes a huge difference for me.
nchammer326Aug 20, 2010
Muslims aren't tarantulas.
Closed AccountAug 20, 2010
Did you just compare people to giant spiders? WTF, man?
jediknight1234Aug 20, 2010
what the f**k are you on about?
gamegeek1995Aug 21, 2010
>Tarantulas are pests
>implying Muslims are Tarantulas
Obvious racist is obvious
ohcyrusAug 21, 2010
LOl Realmdown, I believe that's the exact same argument the Nazi (Hans Landa) gave in Inglorious Basterds but with rats/Jews instead of Muslims/tarantulas.
netantAug 21, 2010
I'd take a Tarantula crawling over me any day over a Brown Recluse Spider.
oxidaneAug 21, 2010
gamegeek, how is it racist?
halphpriceAug 21, 2010
Islam is a religion not a race. Just like Judaism and Christianity.
As a Satanist I must point out that God/Allah is false.
just saying.
secrityAug 21, 2010
Tarantula's are (or at least were) kept as pets, and they are clean animals. I would much rather have a tarantula crawl over me than a mouse.
djskylerAug 21, 2010
halphprice, Islam is not even a religion.
Just ask Judaism:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/8917
Or ask Christianity:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regensburg_lecture
Heck, even this book critic sussed out the Qu'aran as bogus:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6806488.eceComment is buried, click here to see the rest.
melikbilgeAug 22, 2010
As opposed to the bible being awesome and incredibly accurate, though, right? Right?
djskylerAug 22, 2010
Good Lib tactic there - ignore my point completely and then refute an argument I did not make.
slipperyottterAug 23, 2010
and im just gonna make a few more points and link you guys to a website that is no one has every heard of or one with questionable credibility
the holocaust never happened
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htm
the earth is flat WITH EVIDENCE
http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/FlatWhyFlat.htm
and the earth is 6,000 years olds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1msS71xL00
oh, and anyway religion means, "a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny." i'm sure the people of islam worship some kind of super natural diety -the same one's the christian's worship, it's just that their language has a different word for god.
so, yeah, i got that definition from princeton's online dictionary. islam is a religion. if you don't like that definition then take it up with the freaking ivy league.
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
If they're tarantulas, then so is everyone else, unless you are claiming that cultural differences separate people like different species. Basically, your analogy is retarded. Completely retarded.
zulhadmAug 26, 2010
indeed but it was highly entertaining! And that's what the interwebs is for
oxidaneAug 21, 2010
Why did me and halphprice get dugg down for saying/implying that Islam is NOT a race, and therefore saying stuff against it is NOT racist?
Prove that Islam is a race.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
libertarianslolAug 21, 2010
rofl
djskylerAug 21, 2010
oxidane - The Diggberals find great joy in constantly pulling the race card. Facts are irrelevant, you are dugg down for trying to spoil the fun.
breadfredAug 21, 2010
djs, you know very well what this is about. This is about labelling people based one aspect of them - being colour, race, religion, shoesize. Call it racism, godism, shoeism - actually I call it being knowingly ignorant and seeding hatred. You are a hate mongerer and you are proud of it.
djskylerAug 21, 2010
breadfred - This is about calling out people who (knowingly or unknowingly) support an ideology of hate, suppression, thievery and lies. Unlike yourself who knows not who he defends, I've actually educated myself about Islam. As long as they clutch onto that Qu'aran, I know that our beliefs and freedoms are a joke to them.
But don't listen to me, here are a collection of brave ex-Muslims who say the same thing:
Mosab Hassan Yousef:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/04/mosab-hassan-yousef-hamas_n_485403.html
Ali Sina:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/about-us/
Dr. Wafa Sultan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8n-JYdpxU4
Brigitte Gabriel
http://www.actforamerica.org/
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTA9XuAR_iI
Nonie Darwish
http://www.arabsforisrael.com/
Abul Kasem
http://www.islam-watch.org/AbulKasem/
Hossain Salahuddin
http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=30064
Not that you'll look at any of this before spouting another knee-jerk response...Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
jake1337Aug 21, 2010
Col. Hans Landa: Ha! However interesting as the thought may be, it makes not one bit of difference to how you feel. If a rat were to walk in here right now, as I'm talking, would you greet it with a saucer of your delicious milk?
Perrier LaPadite: Probably not.
Col. Hans Landa: I didn't think so. You don't like them. You don't really know why you don't like them; all you know is you find them repulsive. [lets the metaphor sink in] What a tremendously hostile world a rat must endure. Yet not only does he survive, he thrives. Because our little foe has a instinct for survival and preservation second to none. And that, Monsieur, is what a Jew shares with a rat. Consequently, a German soldier conducts a search of a house suspected of hiding Jews. Where does the hawk look? He looks in the barn, he looks in the attic, he looks in the cellar, he looks everywhere he would hide. But there's so many places it would never occur to a hawk to hide. However, the reason the Führer's brought me off my Alps in Austria and placed me in French cow country today is because it does occur to me. Because I'm aware what tremendous feats human beings are capable of once they abandon dignity.
gv402Aug 22, 2010
Wow. That really was THE DUMBEST possible way you could have tried to make your convoluted point.
Translation of your argument: "The majority of Muslims may be nice, peaceful people, but we should still smack them down... you know, just in case."
Get out of here.
sugarazorAug 22, 2010
"I'd take a Tarantula crawling over me any day over a Brown Recluse Spider."
I'd take a tarantula crawling over me an day over listening to Sarah Palin talk.
drbroccoliAug 22, 2010
I like tarantulas, but you're still a racist.
mstachiwAug 22, 2010
I'm fascinated how your mind works and what kind of taxonomy of abstract prejudice you attribute to other ethnicities and religions. In my following imaginary vision I conjured your explaining your theories to your psychiatrist with a macho Brooklyn accent:
"Yeah dem Irish are like dem ringtail lemurs. What's wit da hoppin sideways? Da Romun Cadalics are like da ibex. You can't shake hands with an ibex cuz they got hoofffs. Tha Polish... they are what you call da dramatic prairie dogs. Them prairie dogs sometimes give you dat look and den you don't wanna hug em."
wannartoAug 21, 2010
I understand why most of you, American, condemn the christian conservatives. But I also want some explanation why the muslim communities insist to build a mosque in that controversial location? I don't think it's good idea to build a mosque/church/temple/whatever if it costs you peace.
I know that it's our right to worship, anywhere we like. But what's the point building a mosque if that makes half of the country hate you? Why don't we just find another place less controversial?
fyi, I am an Indonesian. We the moderates do not care wherever the mosque is located, near ground zero or not. But our friends the radicals *might* do. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
nchammer326Aug 21, 2010
First off, it's not actually a mosque.
Second, it's being built primarily for the high number of Muslims in that area. Muslims have been living in that area long before the World Trade Center was built.
http://www.gothamgazette.com/commentary/107.history_arab.shtml
Third, to answer your question, I'm just going to quote David Wong (one of Cracked's editors) regarding that same question: http://www.cracked.com/forums/topic/72770/the-26quot3Bground-zero26quot3B-mosque/80
"Why would Rosa Parks demand to sit in the front of the bus, when it was clearly against the desires of the racists?
Why would you ever do something to counter bigotry? After all, that will only make the bigots hate you more!
Why would you ever demand to exercise your constitutional rights when there are clearly people who want to take those rights away from you?
Maybe because those rights are worth preserving, even if there are large crowds of people who hate you based on lies?
And, just maybe, integration will let the other side see that there was never anything to be afraid of, and that their fears of integration were based on lies and old prejudices. As the community center exists peacefully and does not serve as a terrorist training ground, the people in the neighborhood will realize what the people in the neighborhoods around all of the other mosques in America have found out: that there is absolutely nothing to be afraid of."
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
Hi, nobody should have buried you for asking an honest question.
The conservatives are very sensitive over 9/11. Also, a lot of them are christian fundamentalists, so the have a problem with any other religion making itself known in a prominent way.
The muslims really aren't at fault here, anyone who's ever spent time in New York (I'm from CT, which is a 1 hour train ride to NYC, so I spent a lot of time there) can tell you that 2 blocks away is at least a 10 minute walk.
I'm an atheist, but it's fully within these people's rights to build a house of worship on property that they own, which they do.
This issue was not controversial at all until the house voted down benefits for 9/11 first responders. This issue is a distraction and the American people and media played into it, as they have so many distractions before.
I knew people killed on 9.11 and I don't care where they put the mosque, hell, put it at ground zero. It would be better looking than the pit of nothing that's still there 9 years later.
scythefwdAug 21, 2010
Yay... another chance to get buried. To begin with, I am one of those conservative christians that people like calling racists and bigots.
Honestly, I would like to see the community center built where they propose it. It's their right. I would also like to see it peacefull operate. On the other hand, I don't want to see it built there because some nutjob is going to get physical over it. There will be protests by hypocrites who claim to honor the Constitution but would deny people rights that don't align with their ideas. Some idiot is going to end up bombing it like an abortion clinic. The funny thing is, this person will probably claim to be a christian who will see a difference between a terrorist killing innocents and themselves killing innocents when there isn't one.
bsmangAug 21, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
aunttalithaAug 21, 2010
Um, it's not a mosque or a temple. That was one of the main points of the article.
addictedtomoshAug 21, 2010
"99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% aren't terrorists"
Maths fail, with that percentage out of 1.57 billion Muslims there isn't a single terrorist. It's more like 99.9 which gives you 1570 terrorists but surely theres more.
djskylerAug 21, 2010
Another response to wannarto:
As the builders of this Community Center and Mosque are following the Holy Prophet's command to claim new territory for Allah and his followers, why should they care if the unbelievers show hate and resentment? Their is no better place than the WTC site to build this grand temple to celebrate the sword wound from which the Great Satan still bleeds.
So why worry about controversy? As the Westerners are converted to the one true belief, Islam, the few unholy lovers of freedom will soon be outnumbered and find they must subjugate or lose their head. You need read only the many defenders of Islam in these comments to see that America is filled only with cowards and apologists.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
@AddictedTo:
Maths:
99.9% is one in a thousand.
1.57 billion is 1.57 thousand times a million...
99.9% of 1.57 billion is 1,570,000. I'm not saying the claim has any merit, just saying:
Don't correct someone and be wrong by three orders of magnitude...
smotpokerAug 21, 2010
@AddictedToMosh
"but surely theres more."
That all depends on your definition of "terrorist", I believe. I grew up under the impression that terrorists were groups that formed just to scare innocent civilians to get what they want. However, it seems these days that definition has expanded to include anyone who takes up arms to defend their country from foreign invaders.
Personally, I oppose this expansion and would think the 1500 estimate isn't too far off if you aptly discount those who are motivated primarily by foreign invaders and focused solely on disrupting their efforts.
b0ltacti0nAug 21, 2010
bsmang - your quote "My hope is that all of the bigots who are opposed to it will lose status and fall to a lower rank in society because their gross bigotry has been put on display for all to see.
Unfortunately, that may not happen because there are just so many of them."
Spoken like a true Lexus Liberal. You reek of elitism.
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
gv402Aug 22, 2010
Wannarto, I totally see what you're saying. But, the important thing to remember with this is that they simply can't just walk away and find somewhere else. If they do, then the irrational thinkers leading the nation win. It is just important out of sheer principle that these people be allowed to build their community center- which is entirely legal- where they want to do it, regardless of race or religion.
If they simply throw their hands up and say "Sorry to cause such a fuss, we'll find somewhere else" then it opens the door for the government to have a say in such matters in the future. It just can't happen. It discredits the constitution and invalidates not only the rights of the individuals building the community center, but everyone's rights. Yours, mine, the whole shebang. The government doesn't have the right to say "Nah... listen, I don't like that", when something is perfectly legal.
Closed AccountAug 22, 2010
"It's more like 99.9 which gives you 1570 terrorists but surely theres more. "
1.57 billion - (1.57 billion * (99.9%)) = 1,570,000 terrorists.
Even being generous and assuming 157,000 terrorists (a staggeringly huge number), the percentage is more like 99.99% aren't terrorists.
oxidaneAug 21, 2010
Why does it piss you off? Since when is it your problem?
pintomp3Aug 21, 2010
First they came...
melikbilgeAug 22, 2010
Exactly, exactly what I was about to comment before I saw this. Bravo on traveling to the past and reading my mind sir.
diggsmckenzieAug 21, 2010
Yeah, its only a problem when it affects me. f**k you other people! Its all about me, me, me!
oxidaneAug 21, 2010
quid pro quo.
gv402Aug 22, 2010
You may not understand it yet, oxidane. But taking or interfering with someone else's rights effects you directly. Why? Because we're all protected with the exact same constitution and bill of rights.
In other words, if the government tells Muslims they can't build community center 3 blocks from ground zero, they can just as easily say the same thing to you about anything you want to do/build.
prolianceAug 21, 2010
Since when did Digg and liberals in general give a flying crap about religious freedom?
thetxiAug 21, 2010
Since when did conservatives in general decide that the Constitution was an al a carte menu they could pick and choose from?
diggduggjoeAug 21, 2010
Liberals seem just as eager to go al a carte on the Constitution. Insurance mandate? The federal government can only promote the general welfare using their enumerated powers.
Plus to promote something does not mean to demand it from or to provide to somebody.
Does a concert promoter kidnap people off the street and force them to go to a concert? Do they kick your door in and hold you captive as some crappy band enters your living room to offer up a lame concert? The Constitution is not a document of force. In fact, it puts tremendous limits on the powers of the federal government to specifically limit the ability of it to force its will upon its citizens.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
rotundoAug 21, 2010
I don't know _any_ liberals who are against religious freedom. It's just that you and your kind think that religious freedom means being able to force your religious views on others. And when anyone tries to keep the public sector secular, you cry foul. The underlying problem is that you simply don't get where your rights end and someone else's begin.
Or to put it more specifically: if your neighbor is gay and married, if the public schools don't make kids pray, or if Muslims build a mosque in NYC, it does NOT mean you are oppressed. If you want it to be otherwise, there are plenty of s**tty countries around the world with theocratic rule.
jakaldxAug 21, 2010
Since when are liberals a hivemind?
gv402Aug 22, 2010
I'd say... yep, pretty much always.
thefirewireAug 22, 2010
This whole thread should be renamed to Strawman Arugments and Ignorant Generalizations
fuhgetabotitAug 21, 2010
Pardon the above buttspot for their response...
Because if you let the screaming ignorance win, they win, and their winning will not shut them up, it will encourage the right trash, ideologically and religiously inbred ignorance of the social 'c'onservative 'c'hristians to go even further, thats what the religiously insane do you know...
So we fight them now and beat them back from here. Or you can kiss off anyones freedom from here on out.
Fuhg the political/religious right.
Its nothing but ignorance and lies, cowards and frauds leading mobs of weapons grade stupidity.
Can't wait to see what kind of all American two legged s**t shows up at Becks rally.
prolianceAug 21, 2010
The "news" stores about Glenn Beck's rally have already been written. MSNBC, HuffPo and so on have made up their minds and will only wait until the rally to fill in a couple of blanks. So it doesn't matter to you what happens there. The violent protesters bused in from SEIU won't make the news, only the one or two nuts out of 300,000+ people will.
Of course the libs will immediately pounce on the number of attendants estimated by the Park Service. I can see it now. 400,000 people!!? No way, Keith Olberman told me there were only 6 people there. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
skatopherAug 21, 2010
You understand that even Fox doesn't think that it tells the truth, right? By their own admission in court, they only have 9 hours of "news" a day. That leaves that another 15 hours of non-fact related content. And even those nine hours are pretty arguable for factual content. Yet somehow you are concerned that the other news networks are going to make up something about the station that defines your world view.
Fox is for stupid people.
Fox is for you.
fuhgetabotitAug 21, 2010
You jackasses lick up whatever falls from the foxes ass, I'll look at the video and decide for myself, but as it will be the kind of right trash imbeciles that actually listen to a total retard like Beck I imagine, as its what gathers every time you put I will see nothing but right trash, church stupid, social conservative brain damaged 'c'hristians, racists and bigots and of course...
you
But I'll have an open mind and hope for the best, have a lovely day all you pathetically misled fox watching, Beck loving, wretched right trash church stupid assh**es, wherever you are ;)
cyberdactylAug 21, 2010
Check your math.
oriondrAug 21, 2010
So you're basically saying the number of muslim terrorists is less than 1? Hmm yeah I think reality begs to differ.
maybe 99.999%
addictedtomoshAug 21, 2010
that only gives 16 terrorists out of 1.57 billion muslims
oriondrAug 21, 2010
16 is 0.001% of 1,570,000,000? Try again.
oriondrAug 21, 2010
So you're saying 16 is 0.001% of 1,570,000,000? Try again.
nasserinasaucerAug 21, 2010
99.999% of 1.57 billion muslims would yield 15,700 muslim terrorists worldwide. I think oriondr made a reasonable estimate.
mikemx7fAug 21, 2010
@addicted
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=what+is+.001%25+of+1.57+billion
or you could just learn math.
smotpokerAug 21, 2010
@oriondr
"...would yield 15,700 muslim terrorists worldwide. I think oriondr made a reasonable estimate."
That all depends on your definition of "terrorist", I should think. I grew up under the impression that terrorists were groups that formed just to scare innocent civilians to get what they want. However, it seems these days that definition has expanded to include anyone who takes up arms to defend their country from foreign invaders.
Personally, I oppose this expansion and would think the 16,000 estimate is a bit much if you aptly discount those who are motivated primarily by foreign invaders and focused solely on disrupting their efforts. However, since we now have to consider those we've probably created in the last 8 years due to civilian deaths...
icefox724Aug 22, 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w
patrickh45Aug 21, 2010
Moderates lend an air of legitimacy to extremists.
zb757Aug 21, 2010
How so?
Closed AccountAug 22, 2010
Man, why does every political post have to become about the Tea Party?
patrickh45Aug 24, 2010
Because faith-based thinking in general creates a sense that it is acceptable. For example, when we defer to moderate Muslims and accept that their thinking is, if not correct, legitimate, we unwittingly allow extremists to push the envelope. If religious thinking were outed as superstitious trash, then extremists would be immediately recognizable as the lunatics that they are.
soupforthesoulAug 21, 2010
Little People!!! haha...err
zeitgeist6149Aug 21, 2010
why is he only limiting this to little people's knowledge? what about people with average to tall heights?
masamunecyrusAug 21, 2010
I'm just going to play a little devil's advocate here.
There's plenty of reasons why ignorant people are intolerant of Muslims. You don't have to agree with the reasons, and the reasons may be ignorant, but you should at least understand why ignorant people feel the way they do. Ignorant people probably wouldn't distrust Muslims as much if:
1.) There were same reasonably non-authoritarian majority-Muslim countries (as of right now, Turkey is, perhaps, the best?)
2.) If most state-Islam countries had at least some semblance of male-female equality
3.) If the vast majority of terrorist attacks on innocent people in western countries today weren't by Muslims claiming "holy war" against random allies of the "devil" (devil=USA), who claim that since the CIA is evil, all westerners are, by proxy, deserving of horrific death
4.) If most of the civil unrest and oppression these days wasn't perpetrated by Muslim extremists (Xinjiang, Chechens, Hamas, Hezbollah, Taliban, Muslim ghettos in France, Sharia courts in many countries that are not bound by the rest of the country's laws and enforce separate, draconian, and oppressive laws against women (e.g., Malaysia), Horn of Africa, etc...)
5.) If the percent of bats**t insane Muslims really was 0.00001% -- which it's not, since if it were that low extremists wouldn't hold positions of power in much of the Middle East and Africa, the citizens of those countries wouldn't stand for the extremely strict religious laws. If I had to guess, the percent would be closer to 1% (about 12 million of 1.2 billion.... which is still very low)
Compare it to WWII. During WWII, there were some absolutely insane and evil Japanese and German people. Not only was there quite a few of them, but for every evil Japanese or German, there was an entire populace that would follow along without too much opposition. How do you tell the difference between a Japanese Nationalist and a normal Japanese or a Nazi and a German? Well, you couldn't very easily, and so everybody hated Japanese and Germans. Now that the number of nationalist Japanese and Nazis are so insignificant that they hold no authority and have no mindless followers, there is almost zero distrust of Japanese and Germans (actually, Germany and Japan are the #1 and #2 most liked countries in the world, now).
Obviously prejudice against innocent Japanese and German people was racist, but you should at least understand the underlying reasons why people were racist.
afroteeAug 21, 2010
That's the the thing. People are racist even when the people being discriminated against haven't done anything wrong.
Race has been a way for people in power to divide and control their populations for years. American Republican politicians use it to scare dumb Americans into voting for them, Muslim leaders use it to convince young Muslims to join the cause against the "Devil". There's no difference.
You can say "oh, but there are Muslims who are terrorists, what has the USA done..." and I would say, holy **** you're a moron. US interference in world politics - for good or bad, mostly bad in the last fifty years - incites resentment. It only makes it easier for radical Muslim leaders to recruit.
Both sides are idiots in the matter. But we like to think we're better than them. Maybe we should act like it?
diggimatorAug 21, 2010
During the war, German and Japanese citizens were not mindless followers. They were arrested if they were found communists or anti-war, even beaten to death for looking at an SS or Tokko the wrong way.
icefox724Aug 22, 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w
soulzcoreAug 21, 2010
People only know what they see in the news.. Not entirely their fault, but they should try to use their brains sometimes.. For people who say muslims and Islam are intolerant and they are religious fanatics etc., read this.
In 628 C.E. Prophet Muhammad (s) granted a Charter of Privileges to the monks of St. Catherine Monastery in Mt. Sinai. It consisted of several clauses covering all aspects of human rights including such topics as the protection of Christians, freedom of worship and movement, freedom to appoint their own judges and to own and maintain their property, exemption from military service, and the right to protection in war.
An English translation of that document is presented below.
-This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.
-Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.
-No compulsion is to be on them.
-Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.
-No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses.
-Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.
-No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight.
-The Muslims are to fight for them.
-If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.
-Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants.
-No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).
http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/charter1.html
icefox724Aug 22, 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w
ericheirheadAug 21, 2010
The problem with Muslims is a large percentage of them are fundamentalists. Fundamentalists can be a problem with every religion. But now add a bit of hardship, hate and aggression into the mix and you have a supposed "terrorist".
Don't get me wrong, I think this level of intolerance is despicable. It's just religion gets on my nerves and I have no use for it. f**k Muslims, Christians and f**king Buddhists. That's right, f**king Buddhists. I love you all... just live and love - and do it for yourself and humankind. Don't follow some generic mantra the world has defined for you. Use your brain, live for yourself.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
Sarah Palin hates us for our freedoms.
frostman3dAug 21, 2010
That's a bulls**t stat you pulled out of your ass. Islam is NOT a religion of peace.
verdanicAug 21, 2010
It's funny, I almost wanted to digg you down even though you're completely correct, because you weren't even more right by not even acknowledging the percentage of completely innocent, well meaning Muslims. Even that statement I just made annoys me a little bit. I think it is completely ludicrous to have to say anything along the lines of 'most Muslims are good people'. Suggesting people could possible assume otherwise.
I met an absolute redneck bigot assh**e the other day and had to spend time with him, and that's the first time in nearly 21 years of life that I've been played into that kind of situation. I've never spent any amount of time with a person like this, and I'd mentally rejected that they exist. It drove me completely nuts for hours, and I had to bail on the other GOOD company because this person was actively depleting my faith in humanity in a very real way. Blew me away, upset me, and reminded me who's effectively stopping the world from moving on a positive trajectory. These people are also the unfortunate reason I don't want to move to the states, and it's completely ridiculous because there is a LOT, especially places like NYC and San Francisco, that makes me really like the United States - but it drives me mad. Maybe I shouldn't let it affect me, but I can't help it.
netantAug 22, 2010
Don't lose sleep over your inability to tolerate assh**es. We (in NY) have to deal with these idiots everyday. And they have disportionate power in Congress to f**k up our country. (This is not a (exclusively) Democrat criticism, its an Electoral College criticism.) Are you suggesting Europe has less or more tolerable assh**es?
verdanicAug 22, 2010
@netant
I should have mentioned that - I don't mean to discriminate exclusively against the States, I'm sure you know that's not my intention. I'm sure you also realize why that's my example country (apart form the fact that's what this story is about).
You're right, though - it shouldn't get to me that much. This was just my first encounter that wasn't brief, and actually allowed me to get an idea of how f**ked up this kid's mind worked. Jarring.
tuggerAug 21, 2010
It's all about religious intolerance. You know, the kind of intolerance my grandfather and father fought against in the second world war. When I see the kind of s**te being spewed by the conservatives, it is reminiscent of the nazi diatribe immediately before WW2.
They talk of tattooing immigrants in Arizona. Tattooing people of a race thats not a blue-eyed white, where did we see this before?
The funny thing is that there's a damn great christian church right in the middle of baghdad.
pwrxAug 21, 2010
Surprised about religious intolerance on Digg?
You're the same group that constantly says religions should be banned because they believe in fairy-tale creatures and zombies coming back. Which way do you want it?
sugarazorAug 22, 2010
Saying someone shouldn't believe in something because it's silly is very different from saying they shouldn't be allowed to.
All religion is ridiculous, fairy tale nonsense and is often exploited by extremists to the detriment of society, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't be allowed to believe whatever fairy tale they want. Whether is Christianity, Islam, heroin or cocaine, whatever your drug of choice is, have at it... as long as you don't infringe on my rights in the process.
icefox724Aug 22, 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w
diggnabbitAug 22, 2010
I don't know why you're singling out little people. Lots of non-midgets are horribly wrong about this, too.
jmrocketAug 22, 2010
Maybe they aren't active terrorists but they hate our way of life and cheer when their peers attacks us westerners...
gumbyenderAug 20, 2010
Its simple common sense. Build your s**t elsewhere
halleyscometAug 20, 2010
You should read the article:
"The proposed structure is not on the hallowed ground of the former World Trade Center. It’s at an abandoned and private building blocks away that used to be the Burlington Coat Factory. That means that if every one of the “g’s” that Sarah Palin drops when she’s talkin’ folksy were 10 by10 feet large, you could still stack over 120 of them from Ground Zero to this community center. Easy.
That sort of makes all the difference, doesn’t it?"
Exactly how far way should they build the community center?
afgunit106Aug 22, 2010
I believe if we build it 100 more feet away muslims should be just OK!
/s
Closed AccountAug 20, 2010
Hmm, I fail to see the simple common sense part of your statement.
arschgaudiAug 21, 2010
It's like building a Confederate War Museum on Martin Luther King Blvd. Its about being sensitive to others.
The mouth-piece clowns have gone way overboard in their opposition to the mosque though. They've become what they're protesting the Muslims are.
Barry didn't help, schleeping up to the Muslim community at the Ramadan dinner and than backpedaling shortly after. Spineless f**k.
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
travelsonicAug 21, 2010
arsch, talk about an analogy fail.
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
@arschgaudi:
I'd rather have a muffler (didn't know it was a proper noun /s) shop near the Holocaust Museum than a strip club near Ground Zero... On the other hand, I'd like to see the WTC area rebuilt.
scythefwdAug 21, 2010
gumbyender - Why should they build it somewhere else? They are citizens, are innocent of any wrong doing, and aren't doing anything wrong. Maybe we should get over our intolerance. Maybe we should accept that these people aren't the ones that flew planes into the buildings. Maybe we should be the ones to change and not them.
I would bring up innocent until proven guilty, but somehow I suspect that might not mean anything anymore.
skatopherAug 21, 2010
i think all the people in gitmo that have been held for close to a decade without trial would say that we certainly don't hold ourselves to that standard anymore.
or our traditions of treatment of prisioners, according the geneva convention... which we used our clout to spread around to most of the world, POWs are to be treated as general enlisted soilders of our own army.
i know i got pretty off track there, but i miss the ideals that i thought our country held sacred.
prolianceAug 21, 2010
Its not about rights, no one has ever said they don't have a right to build it there. Its about bad taste. Fred Phelps has the right to protest at the funerals of dead soldiers. Doing so makes him an idiot and most people agree he should stop. I don't recall too many people here supporting his First Amendment right.
Building a mosque is considered to be way of showing that an area has been conquered. Think about the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem and Hagia Sophia in Istanbul. The Cordoba Initiative is about jabbing a sharp stick in our eye and attempting to turn a small part of our country into another Cordoba, Spain.
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
scythefwdAug 21, 2010
I don't see anyone here actually moving to stop Fred Phelps either. I don't see anyone actually taking action to stop Fred from speaking out. I see them taking actions to drown him out (Patriot Riders), but they aren't really trying to stop him from exercising his right to free speech. The right to free speech is not the right to be heard.
You are worried about Islam "conquering" a section of the city? As long as the residents of that area have the freedom to practice whatever religion they choose, if any at all and the converts to Islam are willing then I seen no issue with it. As long as sharia law, or any other theocratic ruling body isn't setup, then they are free to worship whomever and wherever they choose.
thetxiAug 21, 2010
And when the conquistadors set up shop in the new world the first thing they did was build a church.
Guess we should stop allowing churches to be built as well because they are symbols of having conquered a territory.
travelsonicAug 21, 2010
"Its not about rights, no one has ever said they don't have a right to build it there. "
Carl Paladino. Look at his campaign for NY state senate.
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
It's your right to believe whatever you want, but in respect of everyone else here, it would be in better taste if you just shut the f**k up and eat a dick.
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
Its bad taste to think of the two as being connected. Terrorism is something different from a Muslim community center. How is this so hard to understand?
teamgwhoAug 22, 2010
so the mosque that exists 2 miles from my house means my town has been conquered?
//did not know this.
nasserinasaucerAug 21, 2010
The only way you would find this offensive is if you consider the people worshiping at the mosque to be the same as the people who destroyed the towers.
The key is what you consider their distinguishing characteristic. To you, you either consider Al Qaeda's defining trait as "being muslim", instead of "being a terrorist" or you consider the defining trait of muslims in New York as "terrorist." Reality would demonstrate that the actual defining trait of Al Qaeda is "terrorist." "Muslim" is merely a secondary trait that they share in common.
If you cannot separate the two groups, then you will be offended by the proposal. But your failure to separate them is just a reflection of your racism.
If a white, christian, male in a skin head gang were to murder someone I loved, I can choose to hate white people, Christians, males, or skin heads. But the characteristic that made that person a murderer was being in the gang, not his whiteness, christian faith, or gender, despite the fact that being a white, christian, male was prerequisite to joining the gang. Therefore, when a white, christian, male moves in next door to me, I will not be offended, because I do not believe that he represents the person who hurt me. Substitute brown, muslim, in al qaeda, and realize that American Muslims are your neighbors and fellow citizens, and that their place of worship does NOT represent Al Qaeda, unless you are too racist to separate Al Qaeda from Muslims.
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
Bad troll is bad.
hardwalkerAug 21, 2010
like in your mom's dusty vagina
matt2011Aug 21, 2010
Heres how you know someones a retard: When they begin a statement with "Its just common sense"
billabongedAug 20, 2010
At first I thought it was right at ground zero, and that seemed like a slap in the face. It is a reasonable distance away. Not all Muslims are terrorists and they shouldn't be stereotyped as such just because a small fraction of them are. That's like saying all Jewish people are cheap......errr bad analogy.
prolianceAug 21, 2010
The landing gear of one of the planes fell through the roof of this building.
Its Ground Zero.
cyberdactylAug 21, 2010
Well put.
pintomp3Aug 21, 2010
First it's about the victims, now it's about the landing gear.
travelsonicAug 21, 2010
Debris travels, stupid. Ground Zero has a SPECIFIC meaning to a SPECIFIC place, where the TWO TOWERS fell. Two blocks away != on or next to.
alextottiAug 21, 2010
I watched a movie where they found a guy's leg on a builidng roof like 8 blocks away does that mean it's ground zero too?
rotundoAug 21, 2010
I think you need to understand the words you're using. Here's some help:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_zero
letterqAug 21, 2010
I wish I could bury your comment twice. The whole frigging area for many blocks around was hit by flying debris - I know, because I saw it. We can't label all of lower Manhattan "sacred hallowed ground". That area was a blight before the towers were built, and it's becoming a blight again. Any new development in the area is more than welcome, whether it be an Islamic cultural center, or anything else.
Hey, how about the strip club (New York Dolls) around the corner that also got hit by debris - is that also part of ground zero and is now hallowed ground? Before you answer, go have a few drinks and stuff a couple of bills in Cassandra's G-string. Tell me how sacred it feels.
Give me a friggin' break. It's been almost a decade, and it's time to move on already.
lumberingoafAug 21, 2010
Two blocks away from Ground Zero is not Ground Zero. Let me give you an example:
If you break your leg, would you want to be taken to a hospital, or would you be okay with them dropping you off two blocks away?
afgunit106Aug 22, 2010
I guess all of New york must be ground zero because the smoke from the buildings covered the whole state..
...lol.
halphpriceAug 21, 2010
Might as well build a BOMB factory at that proposed, Islamic Commuity Center 2 blocks from ground zero..
/s
manbeefAug 21, 2010
The use of /s doesn't excuse you from being a jerk.
halphpriceAug 22, 2010
it's what they think is going in there...
xdreAug 21, 2010
There's already a "mosque" 200 feet away from Ground Zero. Since the early 1970's.
krnballerzzzAug 21, 2010
Not all Muslims are terrorists? More like the vast majority.
melikbilgeAug 22, 2010
I REALLY hope you meant the vast majority AREN'T terrorists, and not the opposite.
krnballerzzzAug 22, 2010
Oops, sorry guys. Typo. I meant the vast majority AREN'T terrorists.
kafka47Aug 22, 2010
Yes, thank goodness there's no mosque *at* Ground Zero. I mean, where would be put the shopping mall? /s
chaosprofessorAug 22, 2010
also it's not a Mosque, its a muslim community center
aseaman1Aug 22, 2010
I live in New York.... let me tell you, 2 blocks is comparable to a mile out in the burbs. There is just so much crammed in and stacked that 2 blocks is really not that close.
matthewmk2Aug 20, 2010
Its s**t like this that makes me glad to be Canadian. Smarten up America!
i38warhawkAug 20, 2010
You guys can have Alaska the only catch is that you have to take Sarah Palin.
darkphenoxAug 21, 2010
Thats ok she would have such a small fan base she would probably wither and die from the lack of media attention.
ripersnifleAug 21, 2010
No thanks.
gv402Aug 22, 2010
Ba-ZING!
bic823Aug 22, 2010
Peter Mansbridge would lay the smackdown pretty quick
crackerjohnAug 21, 2010
I am from America and dugg you up
shutitdownAug 22, 2010
Id rather have a national race riot than be responsible for breeding the band Nickleback...
Closed AccountAug 22, 2010
Rush.
Rush kicks disproportionately more ass than Nickelback sucks, all is forgiven.
hsuboxAug 20, 2010
Good job, there is a depressing dearth of actual facts out there what with everybody jumping on the easy headline and the cheap ratings tactic.
insightfulAug 20, 2010
When you say "everybody jumping on the easy headline and the cheap ratings tactic" I think you mean conservatives.
ddrskataAug 21, 2010
And the "liberal media," which panders to conservatives in order to not look liberal, since "liberal" and "intellectual" and "factual" have become negative qualities to a large portion of our idiot country.
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
Yeah, it's about time liberals got their f**king act together. You don't argue with idiots, you challenge their premise. By letting reactionary, brain-dead bigots set the tone and frame the debate, we've already lost.
scootermancrAug 20, 2010
It is nice to start to see more and more support for this coming out. It is just plain common sense which is not to common lately.
halphpriceAug 21, 2010
There was support for it when they first proposed it. this is over half a year later and now it's an uproar.
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
It's all about the language. There was no problem until Glen Beck and Wolf Blitzer started calling it the "Ground Zero Mosque".
o76923Aug 20, 2010
"It’s about as intellectually dishonest as manipulating debate footage to make it appear that “Drill, baby, drill” is Sarah Palin’s stance on partial birth abortions."
Closed AccountAug 20, 2010
I have a hard time believing the so called Christians who are against this thing are even Christians at all. They certainly don't follow the same creed I follow, and I call myself a Christian, so.....
kibblesnbittsAug 20, 2010
And what are we saying to Muslims? That if they were good Americans they would willingly give up their rights? I can’t think of anything less American than that? [sic] This is America. We do what we want. And all you have to do to have that right is be a citizen here
f**k yes.
dopreAug 21, 2010
All religions are equal, but some religions are more equal than others.
datastorageguyAug 21, 2010
What are the muslims saying to us?
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
"please let us have a community center in our community" is probably a good summation of what theyre saying right now.
jake1337Aug 21, 2010
I'm Ron Burgundy?
bebemasterAug 22, 2010
"We do what we want."*
* as long as it isn't drugs, nudity in public, swearing on tv/radio, marrying someone of the same sex, protesting without a permit in certain public areas, drive a car without a wearing a seat belt, own/carry a gun without a permit or any other number of things deemed unlawful.
elyeAug 20, 2010
I believe in their right to build a mosque two blocks from ground zero. Just like I believe in the right to a Nazi memorial museum built 2 blocks from the Holocaust museum.
Unfortunately there is no law against tacky.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
ddrskataAug 21, 2010
That's a terrible analogy. There's a huge f**king difference between regular, moderate Muslims (you know, the kind of people who are building this community center) and the people behind 9/11. Comparing normal American citizens who have done nothing wrong to Nazis is disgusting.
arschgaudiAug 21, 2010
What if it's a Confederate War museum on MLK Blvd?
scythefwdAug 21, 2010
Or a Klan meeting at a Gay Pride parade? I don't support the Klan, their cause, their ideals, or their choice to hold a rally at a pride parade, but I support their right to assemble peacefully and say what they will wherever they want to. I wouldn't advise them to do it on my front lawn though. I might have to give them immediate reasons to relocate.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
blqysmgAug 21, 2010
The VAST majority of Nazis were just regular people who did nothing politically active. They were caught up in the nationalist movement at the time, and many of the became Nazis the same way many people in the US become Republicans or Democrats. When asked if they approve of murdering Jews, the majority would have said no.
I'm not supporting Nazis, because that movement was obviously wrong and performed many evil acts. What I'm saying is that even though there are many peaceful Muslims, and in fact the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful, does not make Islam a peaceful religion. Nor does it take any sting out of the fact that 3000 people died on September 11th, 2001 because of Muslim hatred of Americans. That Muslim hatred was not from any one nation, although the majority of the Muslims involved and most of the money to support the despicable act came from Saudi Arabia.
At the end of the day, Muslims murdered 3000 Americans (some of them Muslim, but most were not) and Muslims across the world cheered and danced in the streets to celebrate those deaths. I am as agree about the celebrations as I am the attack itself. If only a couple of dozen Americans bombed the Dome of the Rock and killed 3000 Muslims and America had a 3 day party to celebrate that fact, would there be an understanding on the part of the Muslims that "99.99999% of Americans" had nothing to do with the atrocity? Or would Muslims around the world call for war and "DEATH to AMERICA?" Hell, they call for Death to anyone who so much as draws a freaking cartoon! I'll learn to forgive and accept that there are peaceful Muslims who had nothing to do with attacking America when they stop wishing for my death.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
bubbasmoothAug 21, 2010
blq...
The muslim "celebrations" you speak of didn't occur across the world. Only a small population of Palestinians in refugee camps were recorded cheering the attacks, and given the US' support of Israel, one might at least understand their feelings towards the US.
kazbaedenAug 21, 2010
I'm not supporting Nazis, because that movement was obviously wrong and performed many evil acts. What I'm saying is that even though there are many peaceful Christians, and in fact the vast majority of Christians are peaceful, does not make Christianity a peaceful religion. Nor does it take any sting out of the fact that hundreds of thousands of people died during the crusades because of Christian hatred. That Christian hatred was not from any one nation, although the majority of the Muslims involved and most of the money to support the despicable act came from the Holy Roman Empire.
After we're doing hating Muslims, can we go out and hate Christians too?
Here's a few groups I had in mind:
National Liberation Front of Tripura
KKK
Lord's Resistance Army
Sons of Freedom
Abortion clinic bombers
While we're busy judging groups based on their lunatic fringe, I'd like to c the Republican Party for their intellectual crimes against humanity.
uberbucket1Aug 22, 2010
just wanted to share an analogy which I thought of. Its not great but I kinda like it. Not really on point either but I have it in my head so I'll say it anyways
Hating all Muslims because of terrorists is like hating German Jews during WW2 because they are Germans.
bubbasmoothAug 21, 2010
Comparing Muslims to Nazis is stupid.
Comparing anything but Nazis to Nazis is stupid.
travelsonicAug 21, 2010
But if we don't at least see where the parallels form, how can one expect to avoid going down said path again?
bubbasmoothAug 21, 2010
Because it creates a reality in which anyone, for any ridiculous reason, can be compared to an organization that murdered ~6 million people and waged a war of conquest across Europe and Africa.
bsmangAug 21, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
kazbaedenAug 21, 2010
Godwined.
docholiday22Aug 21, 2010
eLye, I was reading through your comment history because it's often interesting to see what kind of people comments like this; nearly all your comments are negative towards every race on planet Earth apart from white people. You're an embarrassment to white people.
nasserinasaucerAug 21, 2010
A more accurate analogy would be this.
Building a German community center near a Holocaust museum.
It is only offensive if you consider all Germans to be Nazis.
Similarly, the only people who are offended by Muslims building a community center near the WTC are people who believe that the Muslims who worship there represent Al Qaeda.
ddrskataAug 22, 2010
Precisely! Finally, someone who gets it.
melikbilgeAug 22, 2010
Came here to say that. Was not disappointed. Would digg again.
matt2011Aug 21, 2010
That republican talking point never gets old. Its been making the rounds on the news channels ALL week and its beyond stupid.
In no way is it applicable to this discussion, and the fact that you think it DOES is a testament to your lack of critical thinking. You should feel bad about that; there's a whole human brain in your skull that is simply going to waste. For. Shame.
socrates114Aug 22, 2010
@kazabaden
Now I dont really care what happens with the community center but just to be clear Muslims expanded via hostile means on christian lands such as spain and Sicily hundreds of years before the crusades. Read up on the battle of tours. Both religions have been violent Its not like the crusades was the first shot it started way before that.
Closed AccountAug 22, 2010
Way to make a completely invalid comparison.
a valid comparison would be if we screamed and cried if a regular group of christians wanted to build a church near arlington cemetery because Westboro Baptist Church exists.
That sounds f**king stupid doesn't it?
Now you know how you look.
rogersausagesAug 22, 2010
With the exception that WBC didn't kill over 3000 innocent lives at Arlington cemetery.
Closed AccountAug 22, 2010
and if they did? would it be different?
Closed AccountAug 20, 2010
Very true, this debate has gotten absolutely out of hand. Why do so many people hate the rights of American citizens?
gamegeek1995Aug 21, 2010
You're speaking about America, the country that didn't abolish slavery until the 1860s, and a good number of the abolitionists only wanted it because they "believed the U.S. should be the White Man's country". The entire country, as well as the rest of the world (I.E. white guilt) has an insanely racist history. People just feel that limiting and controlling difference is the correct way to go about the world. It doesn't make sense, but that's how the world works sadly. They just believe what their parents believed, who believed what their parents believed, who got their information from sources that weren't worth two s**ts.
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
Well said.
prolianceAug 21, 2010
Why do want to misdirect this discussion into saying its about rights? Everybody acknowledges they have the right to build there.
nosecohnAug 21, 2010
Because that should be the end of it. If it's within your rights and you want to do it, then do it. That's the whole idea of liberty. We all get to do what we want so long as our choices don't infringe upon the rights or well-being of others. The price for that freedom is that we have to tolerate when others make choices we don't approve of. That's the deal. It's America.
daronicusAug 22, 2010
Well, that's not strictly true. After all, it's completely within the rights of the Westboro Baptist Church to go around protesting at people's funerals, but I doubt you'd find many people who would say, "Sure, they should go ahead to do it." Point being, it is possible for someone to be completely within their rights and still be reprehensible.
Not to say this community center shouldn't be built, as it isn't hurting anyone. Anyone who thinks it is should go take a long walk off a short pier.
blqysmgAug 21, 2010
The people absolutely have the RIGHT to build a Mosque or a Community center anywhere they want. I do not see any reason to deny their application or build permits or whatever they need to build on that site. My objection to the desires of the Muslims who want to build a community center several blocks from the worst terrorist attack in United States history has nothing to do with their rights.
The very desire to build an outreach center to Muslims so near the site of a Muslim attack on the American people is in poor taste. Obviously, there are many people who are very upset by the idea of a building dedicated to the glory of a religion that was the motivation for the murder of 3000 people just a few blocks away only 9 years ago.
Again, it is their right to do so. If they exercise that right, it will be a clear indication to me that they have no compassion for the feelings of those who lost loved ones in the terrorist attack.
Perhaps, they can put up a huge sign on the outside expressing their sorrow to the American people for what their fellow Muslims did to us? That I would support.
By the way, I'm also against the wars going on in the Middle East. I support our troops, but our leaders should not have invaded. We were attacked by Muslims from Saudi Arabia, so we invaded Afganistan. Makes no sense to me.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
oriondrAug 21, 2010
lol, let's face it - we hate our freedoms!
/s
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
protesting your own constitution is pretty misguided. I think I can get behind NOT getting behind shooting yourself in the foot.
daronicusAug 22, 2010
Except we aren't saying that they shouldn't be saying it. We're saying they're f**king idiots if they say it. There's a large distinction there.
roncrowellAug 21, 2010
Americans tend to be rude loud and obnoxious demanding.as for freedom, come on your not as free as you think.
whatthefuAug 21, 2010
All of the points made in this article have already been made by just about everyone already.
alanocuAug 21, 2010
Muslims killed 3,000 people in a terrorist attack, so I don’t know why we should deal with any Muslim being mealy-mouthed on the issue. Is that like too logical a stance or something?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
pwotAug 21, 2010
Yeah this whole controversy is pretty much my low point as an American. It's like everything that's wrong with us, all the hypocrisy, all the fear, all the misinformation spread by well-funded political interests, all came bubbling up to the surface at once.
blqysmgAug 21, 2010
I don't think they should be legally denied the right to build, but there is nothing wrong with people expressing their opposition to the Community Center. After all, if I wanted to put up a combination strip club and barbeque center next door to their Community Center, I should have the right to do THAT as well, right? It would be in incredibly poor taste, and a slap in the face of every Muslim that went to that Community Center, but it would be legal.
Well funded people are spending their hard earned money opposing this because the First Amendment gives them the right to do so. It's the highest complement to the American way of life that we are allowed to have this argument. Both sides are doing something that is unpopular and makes others angry. We don't stop them because we're America, where such arguments are the backbone of our society.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
travelsonicAug 21, 2010
"After all, if I wanted to put up a combination strip club and barbeque center next door to their Community Center, I should have the right to do THAT as well, right?"
Te don't HATE pork, they just don't eat it. /derp
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
Actually, there's already a strip club down the block. What an affront to the families of the 9-11 victims. For Christ's sake, people. This is f**king Manhattan we're talking about. You name it, it's within 3 blocks. Quit rabble-rousing, and mind your own business.
atarioAug 22, 2010
Shouldn't be surprising...we have an election coming soon.
thatsnomoon66Aug 21, 2010
There were once men who left their homeland in search of a place where they could practice their religion freely. Oppressed by the ruling class for worshipping a different interpretation of the same God, they braved a journey to a new land. Soon this new land would come to be known as America. A land where freedom of religion is widely touted by many, as long as you're worshipping the right god
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
And if you worship no god, forget about it.
blqysmgAug 21, 2010
They legally have the right to worship in any form they like. We have the right to express our opposition to their support of their religion, as long as the Government stays out of it. It's two sides of the same coin. Freedom is uncomfortable.
And, for the record, Christians and Muslims and Jews worship the same God. Jews believe the Messiah never came, Christians believe the Messiah came an is Jesus of Nazareth, and Muslims believe that the Jew Jesus was an important prophet of Allah (their word for God) but that the Jews exalted him above other prophets by claiming that he was the Son of the living God, then changed their minds and had him turned over to the Roman authorities to be killed, only to secretly rescue him from the cross before he died and hid him until he could escape, never to be seen again. Oh, and then they changed their minds and claimed that he WASN'T the Son of God after all, just a rabbi. Oh, and for this the Christians and Jews should all be killed.
thenepentheAug 22, 2010
"... for this the Christians and Jews should all be killed." Uhm, no. That is not what they believe. f**k off. This is what's wrong - no one is taking the time to find out the truth.
ray42Aug 21, 2010
Similar to Gladstone's article, Olbermann makes some great points here too:
Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No 'Ground Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Muxoo0
maddoktor2Aug 21, 2010
Calling it a Mosque is like calling the YMCA a Church.
vilestruAug 21, 2010
i'm not sure if it can be said any better than that... bravo
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
well, it really is...(C)hristian
combatchuckAug 21, 2010
Well, no it's not. I've been to the local YMCA several times, and never had to sit through a sermon or had somebody try to convert me. It's a community center.
madbadgerAug 22, 2010
I agree with most of the points of this article, but a Muslim community center is *not* similar to the YMCA. Have you ever seen a Muslim community center (MCC)? The purpose of a MCC is much closer to a church than a YMCA. For example, for Friday prayers, Muslims flock to the community centers for prayer service. There are usually no other "real" mosques around. There is a Muslim community center in California that is building a 64-ft tall minaret. Even though it's called a CC, it's much closer to a modern day church, which may be situated in a large office building, has lots of social/recreational/community activities, as well as religious services.
Contrast that with a YMCA, which is a true community center that happens to be sponsored by a Christian organization. Christians don't go to YMCA for worship service on Sundays.
So the purpose of a MCC in the U.S. is to serve as a mosque. So it is not that unreasonable to refer to a MCC as a mosque. That said, there is still no valid reason to disallow a mosque/MCC near ground zero.
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
kafka47Aug 22, 2010
The difference is that they would attend prayer *no matter where they are*, so you're argument is bunk.
maddoktor2Aug 22, 2010
"There are usually no other "real" mosques around."
Not in this particular case.
Among others nearby, there are already 3 Mosques within a mile of Ground Zero, the closest being exactly 1142.53 feet away from it:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=106520383149777542574.00048d68139eb6072d4c2&ll=40.765722,-73.964081&spn=0.202302,0.445976&z=12
dwatersAug 21, 2010
who's the f**ktard who submitted this to "odd stuff" ??????????
bsmangAug 21, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
gorftronAug 21, 2010
I'm a purist on the first amendment, so I support the Islamic center. I also wonder if they mind the paper running cartoons of Mohammad... you know, free speech and all.
iignotusAug 21, 2010
Even if they minded, only the extremists would do anything to try to stop you. Just like in all other religions, or politics, or any other group. Bad analogy.
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
wow, seems like an awful lot of "extremists"
orbishAug 21, 2010
66% oppose "mosque" being built? How do they get those numbers? Calling land-lines? The only people that still have land-lines are a couple years from the old-folks home and the average age of a fox-news viewer.
I'm sick of people clumping Americans together as a bunch of idiots.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
arschgaudiAug 21, 2010
I like how paint the impression that the only people with hard wired phones are those who are idiots. It's almost as though you were as bigoted as these people opposing the mosque.
secrityAug 21, 2010
My partner and I have a wired land line -- and we each have two cell phones. We were not called and asked about this.
ryanisnotsuperAug 22, 2010
Wow, the Ron Paul defense.
bsmangAug 21, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
curiomimeAug 21, 2010
Stephen King nicknamed her as head of The Flat-Earth society.
jonathan102Aug 21, 2010
I love how so many Americans demands the freedom of religion yet deny others' freedom of religion.
prolianceAug 21, 2010
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
Congress is not trying to pass any law to stop them from worshiping. Its the citizens of this country who say its extremely bad taste to build a mosque where Wahhabi terrorists killed nearly 3000 people .
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
aunttalithaAug 21, 2010
Why do people insist on continually calling it something it is not? It is not a mosque. This is depressing.
travelsonicAug 21, 2010
"Congress is not trying to pass any law to stop them from worshiping. Its the citizens of this country who sa.y... *snip*"
Explain to me the support for candidate Carl Paladino for NY state senate, who promises if elected to stop this project by using EMINENT DOMAIN?
It doesn't HAVE to be congress to have govt trying to butt in.
rotundoAug 21, 2010
It is also citizens of this country (like me) who do NOT think it is extremely bad taste to put a cultural center a few blocks away from the WTC site. So stop trying to speak for all America. And if you respond with the word "majority" I'll rub your face in the constitution.
As to the people who are complaining, that's fine. But they are turning it into a political issue by trying to get government intervention. Prominent politicians are wasting time and making outrageously stupid statements on the topic. Indeed, freedom of religion is under fire.
And for f**k's sake -- why are we having this conversation at all? Unless Christians take responsibility for the Branch Davidian sickos it is absolutely stupid to blame Muslims for Wahhabi terrorists. Everyone already knows how to tell the difference between reasonable practitioners and dangerous nutjobs -- but apparently only for their own kind. Pitiful.
thealliedhackerAug 22, 2010
So we should also stop building churches in Oklahoma City?
halphpriceAug 21, 2010
Freedom of Religion is fiiiiine.
As long as you're christian.
oriondrAug 21, 2010
I love how so many Americans demands the freedom of speech yet deny others' freedom of speech.
These people have a right to protest. That's why the whole constitutional/founding fathers argument is absolute bulls**t. We've all got rights, not just the people trying to erect a mosque.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
tiduAug 22, 2010
They're complaining so loudly that they're going to get their way. And our media is so f**king stupid to give them the stage.
tastypasteAug 21, 2010
I really wonder how the conservative right can pretend to support the Constitution while at the same time openly denying people their constitutional rights. Newt Ginrich the other day on Fox News claimed that anti-semites do not have the right to protest outside of Holocaust Museums. Yet that happens all the time and it's protected by the First Amendment. It's as if the right wingers only want the Constitution to apply to themselves and things they personally agree with. But it doesn't work that way. That's why we have the Constitution in the first place, because people like the conservative right wing got into power and started making it illegal for anyone to do anything they didn't agree with. The Founding Fathers would be appalled at the conservatives of today.
lavarockAug 22, 2010
Few like freedom. Most prefer license.
ejpusaAug 21, 2010
Diggers, at the moment I have left the confines of NYC (it's a wedding thing) to meet up with some of the most rural, gun carrying, 100% true blood americans you have ever met. I am WAY of the grid. They use whiskey and a pair of pliers to pull teeth here. Hunting and alcohol rule. Talking politics carries a risk of being gutted with a bowie knife. In their words, "opposition to building that mosque thing is the most ********* thing we ever did hear. WTF is wrong with you people. Just build the damn thing." PERIOD.
Don't believe the polls, America is still America.
halphpriceAug 21, 2010
Blame the Terrorist group Fox News.
aunttalithaAug 21, 2010
I don't believe the polls. I was never asked. I have never known anyone who was asked. I'm not quite sure where they even get that information.
mikemx7fAug 21, 2010
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics
farbooAug 21, 2010
Would you not believe that a medicine works because you didn't know anyone personally who had been a subject in the drug trial?
rotundoAug 21, 2010
According to FiveThirtyEight.com, this whole brouhaha is largely the result of poor polling:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/08/obama-defense-of-ground-zero-mosque.html
The gist being that when asked if it's appropriate, 64% of Americans say it's not appropriate, but those very same people when asked if the center should be allowed, 61% say it should.
I hate the idiots who run the media and thus the dialog in this country. There is _so_ much important stuff to address but we're arguing over stupid bulls**t.
bulletbillxAug 22, 2010
They use the stupid bulls**t to distract us from the important stuff because that way we don't know what the government or the corporations are doing. This all benefits a decent chunk of the 1% who have most of the money and power in this country. It is all done on purpose because the media is owned by these people.
aquileriaAug 21, 2010
Funny I get the opposite reaction... I go from upstate to NYC for field work and feel literally ill as the air quality drops, the people become aggressive and monstrous, and the traffic gets more congested.
isenborgAug 23, 2010
Stereotype much?
curious12Aug 21, 2010
I was with him 100% up to "We can’t vote for a Democrat". I think the issue there is not whether we can't vote for a Democrat, but should we? I find it hard to justify doing it.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
notoriouskateAug 21, 2010
As ridiculous and offensive as the whole mosque "controversy" is, I'm not sure Cracked hits all the right arguments in this article. The third point is completely valid - the government cannot infringe on the right to build it without subverting the law.
But the other two points - while true - did give me pause. 1) It's not at Ground Zero, 2) it's not a mosque. Not to sound too much like a devil's advocate, but what if they WERE? (Not saying it is.) Wouldn't Cracked's analysis of the problem sort of fall to pieces then?
The issue isn't the location or function of the proposed building. There is only one defense of the proposed project here: freedom to practice one's religion on American soil. Period.
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
thetehAug 21, 2010
The first two points are more in response to the opposition's arguments. Pointing out that it's not really at ground zero, and it isn't really a mosque, demonstrates the lack of any factual basis to their argument. I agree though that by far the most important point is point three: that living in America means having freedom of religion, and that's that.
netantAug 21, 2010
The point of 1 & 2 is not to question whether Muslims should be discouraged from putting up a Mosque at Ground Zero. Its to point out its a bulls**t, false flag operation used by Republicans to fire up their bigot base. You know, using a manufactured lie like the Gulf of Tonkin Incident as a pretext to escalate the Vietnam War.
iignotusAug 21, 2010
"But what if they were"? Are you kidding? Is that a joke?
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l5v7fiIrgO1qz4vjio1_500.png
Are you honestly that stupid of a person? It's like reading a caricature or something.
notoriouskateAug 21, 2010
@iignotus
No, I'm honestly not that stupid of a person. Are you?
My question was hypothetical. I thought the way Cracked structured its argument was flawed, and presented a scenario that would really make their case problematic. (E.g. what if it WERE a proper, full-fledged mosque instead of a more general community center - would that make the Republican argument any more legit than it currently is?) The hysteria surrounding this whole argument is ridiculous.
So, really, chill out, iignotus.
iignotusAug 21, 2010
Your hypothetical question is lost on the reality that is this particular issue. THAT'S the point. You can't hypothesize to prove a non-philosophical argument. Wow, you really are that stupid.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
iignotusAug 21, 2010
No matter how many of your little friends you get to come help with your diggs, you can't beat that -12 rating above. Better luck next time troll!
gv402Aug 22, 2010
I see what you're saying, but the article clearly says that the main issue is the 3rd argument. Whether or not it was a mosque isn't the deciding factor, though even if it were I'm sure the argument would still hold just as strong.
Also, as simple as it sounds: I just don't think the community center would be built on Ground Zero. Firstly, I'm sure there are some type of zoning or commercial real-estate restrictions regarding the site, and also... I just don't think people would do that. Same way we wouldn't build a pizza shop or a Sport's Authority there... its hollowed ground for a specific reason; there are plans for a memorial. Its not like we're saying anything can be built anywhere just to prove a point.
Frankly, the important thing to take from the debate is identifying of religious intolerance and bigoted points of view. If the Church of the Flying Spaghetti monster wanted to build a community center there I'm sure nobody would have a problem with it.
joculatorAug 21, 2010
The fact that, in the face of all of this controversy the developer hasn't decided to move the project somewhere else makes me think it's construction is a deliberate provocation.
Why don't you Netflix "Islam: What the West Needs to Know".
This could be here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blpRQ77PadUComment is buried, click here to see the rest.
thetehAug 21, 2010
As the article said, should Rosa Parks not have sat down because it was a "deliberate provocation"?
It is their constitutional right to build a community center there. It's their own property. There are so many illogical absurdities to the anti "mosque" argument that I don't even know where to begin.
Not all Muslims are terrorists. In fact, it's the second most practiced religion in the world and almost all Muslims are totally friendly, normal people who wouldn't hurt a fly. It's totally irrational to hate an entire religion based on the actions of a few crazies.
Oh and it's also not really a mosque. It's a community center. And it's blocks away. And there's already one that's closer. They shouldn't have to back down, it's their right as Americans, as much as it's a Christian man's right to go pray at his own church.
We're not at war against Islam. Stop acting like we are.
scythefwdAug 21, 2010
But yet we see that of all religions.
thetehAug 21, 2010
scythefwd: what? who?
joculatorAug 21, 2010
So you would welcome a nice cathedral near the dome of the rock in Mecca....now that's open-mindedness!
scythefwdAug 21, 2010
THETEH - my comment was in reference to "It's totally irrational to hate an entire religion based on the actions of a few crazies."
You see people say christianity is a violent religion because of people blowing up abortion clinics and the crusades.
You see poeple saying islam is a violent religion because of the few extremists that blow up bus stops.
etc.
Joculator - Yes I would, though just as the case here I don't think it would be smart.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
travelsonicAug 21, 2010
Joculator,
"So you would welcome a nice cathedral near the dome of the rock in Mecca..."
A country thousands of miles away != America. America != Saudi Arabia, and I'd appreciate it if you and others who make this argument think about how stupid it is.
thetehAug 21, 2010
scythefwd- ah gotcha. Yes, thanks for the clarification and I agree, most groups fall victim to the same sort of ignorance that Islam is falling victim to now. I don't think it matters if it's someone hating all Muslims because of a few wackos, or someone hating all Christians for the same reason. There are maniacs and gentle, good souls in every religion and group. Anyone who would condemn someone as evil just because of the book that person reads on Sundays is ignorant and ridiculous.
joculatorAug 21, 2010
Last time I checked, Rosa Parks didn't murder anyone.
thetehAug 21, 2010
Joculator: the people who want the community center built didn't murder anyone either, anymore than the pope personally lynched black people because of the KKK. Don't blame an entire religion for the actions of its craziest followers. If your mind works that way, NOBODY should be building ANYTHING near ground zero, because all of our religions (including atheism/agnosticism) have had crazy, murderous maniacs follow them.
scythefwdAug 22, 2010
joculator - Other, more extreme, members of the civil rights movement did. Should we judge all of the civil rights leaders by the actions of the more militant among them?
How is this any different? Is it because they are religiously motivated vs. civil rights motivated?
ageofmasteryAug 21, 2010
Yeah, how dare they stand up for their rights and build on land they owned since before 9/11? It must be a provocation!
joculatorAug 21, 2010
...Bulls**t, don't make up lie to people here - the construction site was recently reported in The Daily News as being first located in 2006.
kazbaedenAug 21, 2010
So you and your family purchase a house a plot of land, and want to build a house on it. However, your neighbor tells you he doesn't want you to build there because his great grandfather used to own the land, and he would prefer you didn't build on it.
You're just going to pack up all your s**t and leave?
joculatorAug 21, 2010
yup....if a member of my family, unprovoked, committed a heinous act against people in the area, I would not force the issue.
kazbaedenAug 22, 2010
This is more like if someone who happened to have your last name but to whom you were otherwise unrelated committed a heinous act.
"My uncle was killed by a Smith. Your last name is Smith, therefore you should not build here."
Also, 9/11 was a lot of thing, but it certainly wasn't unprovoked. The US has done a lot of twisted s**t in the middle east. It's unreasonable to suggest there won't be any blowback for our nation building and meddling.
dustblinkAug 21, 2010
I want a monument to the Elona Gay built on the outskirts of Hiroshima but it's not going to happen.
ihkumichoAug 21, 2010
Show me how 1.2 billion muslims in this world were directly, 100% responsible for 9/11 and you'd have a point. Otherwise, you're no different than the rest of the yahoo's making asinine connections...
nosecohnAug 21, 2010
Your analogy fails. If you implied that there should be a prohibition on building Christian churches near Hiroshima because all the flyers in the Enola Gay were Christian, that might be equivalent.
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
"Elona Gay"? Are you dyslexic, you stupid f**k?
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
It's sad, this debate shows just how many people are way more intolerant than they'd like to believe. How building a community centre (not even a mosque! It's not a single purpose building) 2 blocks from the site of an unfortunate event is 'insensitive' I can't fathom, unless of course the word 'Islam' was synonymous with the word 'terrorism', which it most certainly isn't. I know a huge amount of Muslims and I have yet to see any of them running around with a bomb vest shouting 'Death to the west! Allah Akbar!'
9/11 was a terrorist attack, not a Muslim attack -- it's important that people remember that. Now, can we just the goddamn building and get on with our lives? Please?
netantAug 21, 2010
Its not about people being insensitive. Is about people wanting to encourage racism and bigotry by demonizing a whole population of people over what 29 s**tbags did.
gtirebuyerAug 21, 2010
There were only 10 guys on the Enola Gay not 29.
spire3660Aug 21, 2010
@gtirebuyer
Just stop. Japan brought it on itself with its willingness to sacrifice the entire population in a suicidal standoff. MANY more would have died in conventional fighting not to mention the Tokyo fire storms were actually more deadly then the atomic weapon attacks.
blqysmgAug 21, 2010
9/11 was a terrorist attack by Muslims in the name of Islam. The previous attack on the World Trade Center buildings was a terrorist attack by Muslims in the name of Islam. The DC snipers were Muslims killing in the name of Islam. The USS Cole bombing was carried out by Muslims in the name of Islam. The Oklahoma City bombing was a terrorist bombing by Muslims in the name of Islam. The Fort Hood shootings were an attack by a Muslim in the name of Islam.
There are many more, I just don't want to take the time to list them. How many times do we have to have American's killed by Muslims in the name of Islam before we admit that whether or not we are at war with Islam, Islam is at war with us?
I keep seeing people post "Not all Muslims are terrorists" or "Most Muslims are peaceful." That may well be true. Of course, during World War II most Japanese did not kill any Americans, did they? Did every man, woman and child in Italy take up arms against the US? No. That didn't keep us from being at war with them.
Look at all of the killings in the world, and you will find that MOST of them are done by a Muslim, and quite a few are done "in the name of Allah." Their Holy book commands them to kill everyone who does not submit to their way of worship. Many of them take these commands to heart.
I know the Old Testament of the Bible also commands killing for a variety of reasons. This was the tradition of all of the peoples who lived in the Middle East at the time the books were written. They were a vicious, bloodthirsty group of people, Arabs and Jews alike. This is why there is a New Testament. If we abandon the New Testament, which teaches tolerance and tells us to stop killing each other, then there is no Christianity. Where is the "okay, stop killing each other" section of the Koran? Hint: it doesn't exist.
If there were to be a New Islam, where a new prophet came to say that the killings ordered by Mohammed could now be stopped, I'd support the religion. There are many leaders of Islam that are highly influential in the world who have gone on record to say that Moderate Muslims are not Muslims at all, and only by following the dictates of Mohammed, which includes killing apostates, Jews, Christians, disrespectful children, immodest women, and anyone who casts disrespect on the name of Allah or his Prophet will be given a reward by Allah.
It is a religion of killing and death. They are at war with us. We can accept that fact, or ignore it to our peril. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
haha, yeah Timothy McVeigh was a big Muslim. You sound like a willfully ignorant person who needs to hate to feel good about yourself.
travelsonicAug 21, 2010
tl;dr;[citation needed]
deruthvenAug 21, 2010
Actually, the 9/11 attacks were not attacks on Christianity or any type of religious attack as many would like it to believe, since that's a more convenient and comfortable explanation. They were really political attacks - that's why they attacked a financial center, a military/government building, and intended to attack the capitol building. No religious buildings were harmed, not directly. They all happened to be Muslim and their religion was used to motivate them, just as religion was used to motivate the Japanese in WWWII. Though no one has accused the Pearl Harbor attack as being a religious attack.
Closed AccountAug 22, 2010
Oh riiiight, now I see. So Muslims shouldn't build community centres in New York then.
timeshifterAug 22, 2010
Intolerant? I think it's sad how many digg users are closed minded.
powerphail said: "9/11 was a terrorist attack, not a Muslim attack -- it's important that people remember that."
Please. I guess it's important to remember that water is not wet?
bdigital24Aug 22, 2010
9/11 was a terrorist attack in the name of Islam and a whole s**tload of them were on film celebrating out in the streets when it happened.
I firmly support the right for the mosque to be built, but let's not re-write history here.....
iignotusAug 21, 2010
Violating Civil Rights should be a criminal offense.
ronpauliskingAug 21, 2010
I believe it is
shortstickAug 21, 2010
Remember free speech zones?
I guess they could move the mosque site to a "free religion zone."
mizuhochanAug 21, 2010
I only need one reason. Religion is bunk.
cyberdactylAug 21, 2010
"I don't usually write about politics. It's important, but something I want no part of "
Kind of the mindset of all their articles.
They have googled their way through subject matter to have a rudimentary knowledge to put together a mildly entertaining article.
This article is no differant. They show they understand the basics, but fail to understand the deeper philosophical undercurrents.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
ferretmanAug 21, 2010
Can they? Yes, absolutely.
Should they? Nope....building it there and dedicating it then will *precisely* not foster the understanding and friendship they say they're striving for.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
csheikhAug 21, 2010
Taking a building that has been empty since 9/11 that had dropped in price almost 75%, and investing $100 Million to make it functional and community-oriented (there are Muslims in Manhattan, even before 9/11), that is not being friendly?
Where have all you people that care about Manhattan been for the last 9 years? You could have bought that building and made some 9/11 memorial if you feel so passionate about it, but instead you didn't give a s**t until someone else wanted to do something.
medallionsAug 21, 2010
As a born and bred New Yorker, I strongly oppose this "Islamic cultural center".
Why?
I'm not convinced Islam is religion of peace. I have traveled to many countries in the middle east and respect the people, food, architecture, history and culture..
The religion, however, is something else.. (the Koran was written by one person to be taken literally)
After hearing the imam speak and learning about the tradition of deception to infidels and the history of building victory mosques, my opinion is that traditional Islam is not compatible with liberal western Democratic societies.
I think it was a bad idea for our president to make this a national issue, too..
And if any of you think ALL Muslims in this country are here for peaceful purposes, I suggest you take a walk through some neighborhoods in Brooklyn..
Thankfully, this center will never be built..
Why?
The Unions won't build it..
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
blqysmgAug 21, 2010
"Those who know nothing about Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those people are witless. Islam says: 'Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all!' Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by the infidel? Islam says: 'Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter them.' Islam says: 'Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword.' The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for the Holy Warriors! Does all this mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim." (Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini)Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
medallionsAug 21, 2010
What??
csheikhAug 21, 2010
So why is it when Muslims took over Jerusalem, Jews and Christians were allowed to worship, yet when Christians took over Jerusalem, they killed all the Jews and Muslims? And this was 1000 years ago, much closer to the time of Muhammad. Try using some logic.
kazbaedenAug 21, 2010
"I'm not convinced Islam is religion of peace."
Funny, that's the same reason I'm against Christianity. There's a lot of hate in the Bible.
medallionsAug 21, 2010
Agreed.
deruthvenAug 21, 2010
There may be a lot of hate in the Old Testament and some in the later Gospels, but none whatsoever that is attributed to the words of Jesus, himself.
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
except jc was all for the old testament
notadiggtardAug 21, 2010
I don't personally have super strong feelings about the subject but the article is misleading on a number of points.
1.The distance is 560 feet.
2.Pretty much nobody is asking the GOVERNMENT to stop it.
3.70% of opponents would have no problem with having a mosque built near or next to their home.
4.The fact that it has facilities in addition to an actual mosque is irrelevant.
5.There are actual Muslims who have spoken out against it.
And a couple of thoughts.
There were riots and murders by Muslims over some f**kING CARTOONS,but people who would like this built farther away are intolerant?Really?
The same politically correct liberals who are condemning opponents for being offended are the first to call for the beheading of anyone who says anything remotely insensitive about one of their pet groups.Hypocrisy city. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
kazbaedenAug 21, 2010
"4.The fact that it has facilities in addition to an actual mosque is irrelevant."
That's pretty much the entire utility of the building, as there's already a Mosque in the area.
"There were riots and murders by Muslims over some f**kING CARTOONS,but people who would like this built farther away are intolerant?Really?"
As soon as this building infringes on another person's right to life, liberty, and property we can start talking about restricting their rights. Until then, if you want to restrict their rights you're intolerant.
"The same politically correct liberals who are condemning opponents for being offended are the first to call for the beheading of anyone who says anything remotely insensitive about one of their pet groups."
You can be offended all you want. Just do it in your own home and stop trying to infringe on the rights of these people to build there, who are not infringing on your rights in any way, shape, or form. But just as you have the right to be offended, I have the right to think you're an intolerant bigot for being offended.
travelsonicAug 21, 2010
"1.The distance is 560 feet."
So? Still not on or next to Ground Zero
"2.Pretty much nobody is asking the GOVERNMENT to stop it."
Carl Paladino, if elected to NY state Senate he promises to use EMINENT DOMAIN to stop the project.
"3.70% of opponents would have no problem with having a mosque built near or next to their home."
"4.The fact that it has facilities in addition to an actual mosque is irrelevant."
No it isn't, if it is primarily meant to be a community center, the primary purpose is not negated by the establishment of a religious addition.
"5.There are actual Muslims who have spoken out against it."
True
"There were riots and murders by Muslims over some f**kING CARTOONS,but people who would like this built farther away are intolerant?Really?"
You know radical Muslims != all Muslims, right? You're one to talk about tolerance, generalizing against all Muslims... what an idiot.
grindelwaldAug 21, 2010
Sounds like America is not as advertised.
marogerAug 21, 2010
America: where only the comedians make any sense.
miggieAug 21, 2010
You know diggers this is a Gladstone article right?
timeshifterAug 22, 2010
America: where it's only news if it's on Jon Stewart.
jock1Aug 21, 2010
The way i would look at this is , say a bunch of American terrorists had flew a passenger plane into an important building in say Islamabad killing thousands of innocent muslims and then a few years later white christians had come a long and decided a few hundred feet away would be the ideal place to build a christian religious centre would this be tollerated ?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
spire3660Aug 21, 2010
How is that relevant in ANY way. In America, we try do things that are right, not what others are doing. The LAW of OUR land demands that ALL religion be treated equal. Your logic is for lack of a better word, retarded.
jock1Aug 21, 2010
Mind me to ask the native Amercans what they think about your point . All religion be treated equal yes you do give a great example of retardation :-)Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
ubitendoAug 21, 2010
A bunch of Americans are currently bombing the s**t out of muslim countries and building bases there.
wilywondrAug 21, 2010
Pakistan is a terrible example. Pakistan was started as an Islamic Republic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Pakistan
It was not started as a country that wanted it's goverment to be free from religious influence, like ours.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution
Learn about the India-Pakistan connection and it will tell you why they created it this way.
jock1Aug 21, 2010
Feel free to substitute any muslim country in its place it still stands it would not be tollerated :-)
mikaelsjAug 22, 2010
Oh and BTW Pakistan currently has thousands of churches, over 2.8million people in Pakistan are Christian.
jock1Aug 22, 2010
Oh are they all built next to sites of western terrorism i never new that . seems to be my question needs to be simplified . how about this if the shoe was on the other foot would it be tollerated :-)
thealliedhackerAug 22, 2010
So you're saying we shouldn't have churches in Oklahoma City?
jock1Aug 22, 2010
So your sayimg Oklahoma is a Muslim country lol :-)
abstractj3Aug 21, 2010
Funny that the author claims that "9/11 terrorists perverted Islam into something violent and hateful" the same was as the Crusades perverted Christianity.
In reality both religions were already perverted. People who don't have the capacity to think for themselves and believe the literal word of the bible and the quran will think that what they're doing is the way of God. End of story.
That said, the mosque probably won't harm anyone, but that doesn't mean that religions are "peace loving"Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
I wonder how many people supported the draw mohammed day but oppose this. If you are for one you have to be for the other.
malexAug 22, 2010
You aren't expressing yourself very well. What is "this" in this context? The community center, or the opposition to the community center?
thealliedhackerAug 22, 2010
It's pretty easy. I support the right of people to do what they want within the bounds of the law as long as it does not harm other people.
People can build mosques, and people can draw Mohamed, I don't care.
Closed AccountAug 21, 2010
When it comes down to it, there is only one argument against having this community center built there. I and people I know don't like Muslims, and we want them far away from us. Seriously, that is what the builders are being "insensitive" about, other people thinking they are all terrorists and feeling uncomfortable around them.
inciteful1Aug 21, 2010
"In fairness, we've been building 'ground zeros' near Iraqi mosques since March 2003." - Jason Mustian
kafka47Aug 22, 2010
I wanted to make this bumper sticker : In Iraq, every day is 9/11.
baraynavabAug 21, 2010
"There is NO way to say that an individual has a protected right to do something and simultaneously criticize your government for not suppressing the execution of that right."
Cant be said any better in this case
allworknlowpayAug 21, 2010
WHAT! a bunch of MUSLIMS want to build a MOSQUE WHERE!!?!?!?! In a location that has been called Little Syria since the turn of the century!? Why would they want such a thing except to attack our freedom!
dalepmayAug 21, 2010
Would it be acceptable for us to build a memorial to U.S. bomber pilots at the location where we dropped the bomb on Hiroshima? Would it be ok to build a memorial to the Japanese Navy at Pearl Harbor? Would it be ok to build a Hitler statue at the location of former concentration camps in Europe? No, it wouldn't. Muslims are free to practice their religion, but American citizens are also free to not be slapped in the face by being forced to cater to the very group that attacked us.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
ebcreasonerAug 21, 2010
That argument does not make sense.
1) The community center is NOT a memorial.
2) The community center is NOT a evil leader.
3) The community center is NOT the group that attacked you.
4) Fuddruckers smells good. I mean, you walk through the doors. Woah! It's... DAMN!!!
nchammer326Aug 21, 2010
There's actually a Shinto shrine not far from Pearl Harbor, and I'm pretty sure there's a US military base not far from where one of the atomic bombs was dropped.
Also, Muslim equivalent of a YMCA =/= Hitler statue.
"but American citizens are also free to not be slapped in the face by being forced to cater to the very group that attacked us."
The people who attacked the WTC on 9/11 represent all Muslims as much as Fred Phelps represents all Christians. In fact, the Imam behind the community center is a Sufi (practitioner of Sufism), and those people have been oppressed and attacked by the same type of extremists who were responsible for 9/11.
ryptideAug 21, 2010
I wish I could digg this twice.
nasserinasaucerAug 21, 2010
Why do we feel the need to clarify that it's a community center and not a mosque? Shouldn't they be allowed to build a plain old mosque too?
It's like when people call Obama a Muslim. Of course it's untrue, but even if it was true, why should that be a problem?
ebcreasonerAug 21, 2010
The Obama/Muslim thing goes like this:
Logic... If Obama was a Muslim, then at this point in time we would all know and it wouldn't matter.
Unreasonableness... If Obama was a Muslim, then that would mean he lied to us and is the enemy.
reborninflamesAug 21, 2010
Because people who realize it isn't a big deal also realize that those who are currently freaking out at it are stupid people, so they have to be thrown a bone like "it's just a f**king muslim YMCA" because they can't grasp concepts like our nation's constitution and our commitment to adhering to its principles.
deruthvenAug 21, 2010
The other aspect that makes no sense (sorry for not reading the other posts 1st to see if others agree, yet - I had to get this in while I was thinking of it) is that it is a civic issue (zoning, specifically) and to pull the president into an issue in an area where he has no authority or jurisdiction, is insane. Well, the people that listen to the propaganda for the purposes of fear-mongering and vote getting are strictly not insane, just gullible and under-educated.
gibbonsbeardAug 21, 2010
1 reason: The Constitution
ebcreasonerAug 21, 2010
<Salute> I'm a nobody civ.
swordphishAug 21, 2010
Exactly. If you have a problem with religious freedom, you are no better than a scumbag terrorist.