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MusicManGPFeb 3, 2012
This is something I wonder. I know people say they believe in Heaven or more generally an afterlife, but I really wonder if deep down they do?
It's a nice thought obviously. If you've lost a loved one or a close friend I can understand the desire to believe that some day you'll see them again. I've lost close friends and family members, and obviously it would be nice to see them again.
But it's just so...ridiculous.
How does consciousness persist?
Do babies stay babies in the afterlife or do they immediately become intelligent people?
At what stage of development could a human baby pass on to an afterlife? I doubt all the fertilized eggs that don't make it become people in the afterlife, or do they?
What makes people special? Do apes, dolphins, or whales make it to an afterlife? What about dogs, cats, or snails? How about sea sponges, bacteria, and viruses?
Why are people who believe in an afterlife sad when someone dies? You don't know when you're gonna die, so you could be reunited with them anytime. At most you have the rest of a human life to wait, and then eternity to spend with them. What's sad about that?
"Maybe a President who didn't believe our soldiers were going to heaven might be a little less willing to get them killed"
If people who believe in an afterlife really believe in it, then I don't see how there's any maybe about it. Of course they'd be less willing to get them killed, because they'd understand:
When you die, and more specifically when your brain dies, you're gone. Forever.
As an atheist, nothing gives me more reason to be compassionate toward life of all forms as the idea that this is the only shot we have, and we're all in it together.
diggerineFeb 3, 2012
Let me ask all atheists reading this post then:
If what Bill Maher says is true, could you please give me a historical example of an atheist leader who was "a little less willing to get (his/her) soldiers killed" because this is the only life we've got, and thus he/she has got more respect and compassion for all life?
Thanks in advance.
MusicManGPFeb 3, 2012
I think the point is that a single individual might be less willing if they were an atheist. Comparing one individual to another doesn't necessarily make sense as they could differ in many other dimensions of personality that ultimately make atheism versus theism irrelevant.
The_SovereignFeb 3, 2012
No, I can't, but did you know that searching the Internet for that information yourself would improve your brain's functioning in many ways? Also, you're more likely to trust your own conclusions, and then you can lead by example by answering questions instead of asking them. You'd have to be an idiot to miss this opportunity!
We'd love to hear back from you!
Thanks in advance.
diggerineFeb 4, 2012
Okay, here's hearing back from me:
1. If all I wanted was to search the Internet, I wouldn't have asked the question of you atheists. It was an implied challenge to all atheists I was making, or were you just too busy sneering at me and being condescending to answer the question. I ask because this is a forum for discussion, or do you not want to discuss and debate Bill Maher's statement? Do you have a problem with me questioning Bill Maher's statement, or should I just blindly accept what he said as fact?
2. You know, if you had a real answer to my question you would already have given it to prove Bill Maher's point. Instead you hide behind your false confidence and condescension because you really can't give me one good example, can you?
3. Once again, I challenge all atheists to prove Bill Maher's point and give everyone an example in history of an atheist military leader who was "a little less willing to get (his/her) soldiers killed" because this is the only life we've got, and thus he/she has got more respect and compassion for all life? Why do you atheists think that Bill Maher's point is true?
4. You know, what if I'm just a noob with regard to this Internet thingy here? You know, because from what I gather you atheists think us non-atheists as mere simpletons, extremely gullible and sorely lacking in intelligence, right?. I probably ought to bow down and humble myself before your obviously superior intellectual. I am not worthy, O Great The_Sovereign (he who is so great that he can only be called The_Sovereign, peace be upon you, O great one!)
5. Since I am so intellectually inferior to you, O great The_Sovereign, would you, in your profound magnanimity, deign to teach me how to search the Internet for examples of exemplary compassionate life-respecting military leaders? O, I humbly ask you, the great The_Sovereign, for your profound wisdom and compassion. Now is that grovelling enough for you?
The_SovereignFeb 6, 2012
I stopped reading after the first sentence. Obviously you don't know good advice when you see it. Well, good luck with that.
diggerineFeb 12, 2012
Oh, but I thought you'd love to hear back from me. Isn't that what you said? Where is the love, my dear Royal Highness The_Sovereign? Where is the love?
Oh, by the way, following your most wise advise, I did try to do a search on the Internet for "compassionate life-respecting atheist military leader", and just like you google couldn't give me even one example.
I must be doing it wrong. Oh my Most High, Most Excellent, Most Knowledgeable, Most Wise, Supremely Majestic The_Sovereign, could you please help out this simple fool and tell me what search phrase I could use to find examples of life-respecting atheist military leaders on the Internet? I need your guidance, Your Excellency! Please have pity on your most humble subject.
Maybe a few links, oh dear Lord and Master, to enlighten this most unworthy of creatures.
trythinking1stFeb 3, 2012
As an atheist let me say this:
1. I don't believe in any such thing as an afterlife.
2. I don't believe that believing in an after life gives one any less regard for human life.
I feel that people who do believe in an afterlife are in absolutely no hurry to go there. We are hard wired as human animals to survive at all costs, and even if religiously you completely believe in some sort of afterlife, your religious beliefs will be at odds with your genetic predisposition to survive at all costs.
Put another way: We have survived because we have evolved to value survival. Our brains are hard wired to attempt to survive at all costs. Most judeo-christian religions will tell you that you can only "get into" the after life if you meet some pre-ordained criteria having been attained in the present life, so even in the religious mind (I suspect), there is still the chance that you might not "get in".
russkFeb 3, 2012
"2. I don't believe that believing in an after life gives one any less regard for human life."
If this is true, explain suicide bombings? At least some of these seem to be motivated by the belief that the person will be rewarded in the afterlife for their actions.
sbuckley00Feb 4, 2012
"I don't believe that believing in an after life gives one any less regard for human life. " <== I agree with this statement. I believe it is what is taught to go along with it that causes low regard for human life. The act of believing in an afterlife, alone, does not do this. However, if someone tells them that they will be rewarded.. blah blah.. etc for killing people in the name of allah, etc.. bs bs etc.. then that causes them to regard human life as less. Basically, these extreme beliefs were brainwashed into these people. Take all that out of the picture and simply teach an infant there is an afterlife and then teach another infant there is not an afterlife.. then both future adults should not have any different regard for human life.
sab0tageFeb 4, 2012
The people who do suicide bombings are typically not atheists, they are usually religious and motivated by martyrdom and/or 72 virgins.
trythinking1stFeb 6, 2012
People who perform suicide bombings are zealots and have been "programmed" since childhood by their religious upbringing to believe that they will go to some kind of afterlife. They are the exception to the rule and there are always other factors involved. So I will stand by my statement with a small rephrase....*In general*, belief in an afterlife does not give one any less regard for human life.
as @sbuckley00 says in response, and makes some excellent points, there are other factors that contribute to the suicide bombing phenomenon.
murrayc1968Feb 3, 2012
I never get tired of Bill's ripping on Religion.
jonz334Feb 3, 2012
Amen.
anomaly100Feb 3, 2012
Amen to your Amen.
igorunchainedFeb 3, 2012
.....and Hallelujah!
murrayc1968Feb 3, 2012
TESTIFY!
ikorkyiFeb 3, 2012
REPENT!
murrayc1968Feb 3, 2012
To what?
raidy11moonFeb 3, 2012
God Loves You!
quadeFeb 4, 2012
I logged in just to say that same sentiment.
Amen!
classydaveFeb 3, 2012
Bill also offers very cogent arguments on the merits of cannabis - but then most mainstream fans ignore him as "just another stoner". Interesting to me that a good portion of the people that recognize his humour as cutting edge social observation, but his pot use and advocacy as druggie nonsense.
quisquisFeb 4, 2012
And here I am the other way around.
I'm down with his pot advocacy, but when it comes to politics and religion, I think he's pretty nuts.
markcalvinoFeb 4, 2012
Another Bill Maher win.
Would love if he had Richard Dawkins on his show, just the 2 of them, discussing Reason and the evil of religion.
clitniblr036Feb 3, 2012
Agreed.
diggerineFeb 3, 2012
Oh yeah?
So Lenin, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong Il, Ho Chi Minh, and all those communist, atheist leaders were a little less willing to get their soldiers killed? They were blood-thirsty tyrants who cared not a whit for their soldiers lives, and were extremely willing to get them killed.
Stalin's Red Army would even shoot their own soldiers if these soldiers refuse to go on suicidal frontal attacks during World War II.
It's a glib but historically-false soundbite, is all it is, and Bill Maher should know better.
concusionFeb 3, 2012
he's talking about America, not some crazy state run religious dictatorship dummy.
trythinking1stFeb 3, 2012
yes, but diggerine's point still holds perfectly well.
quisquisFeb 4, 2012
He's not talking about a religious dictatorship... he's talking about atheist ones.
MusicManGPFeb 3, 2012
As if the only difference between most American presidents and the likes of the people you've mentioned is theism.
diggerineFeb 4, 2012
Good point, MusicManGP. I hope you can also see that theism would not be the only difference between most American presidents and life-respecting, pacifist atheistic leaders (whoever they are, if they even exist). There are many reasons why people would care or would not care about soldiers' lives, and theism or atheism is only one of them.
But remember this, many leaders, theist or not, reach their positions of power because of their ambition, greed, and lust for power, and these more often than not govern for the most part how much they care about their soldiers' lives.
Closed AccountFeb 4, 2012
dugg for smartness...communism has killed what? close to 100 million people in wars?
andromedastarFeb 4, 2012
Actually Mao was far from an atheist - He refused to allow religion to be held above the state but he was a full scale, well practiced magical thinker. He used ritual and portents to predict his regime; he paid and genuflected as much as any Christian and he acted only when the numbers and portents and dates were aligned. He may not have been Buddhist, Confusion or a follower of Tao but he was most definitely a practicing, immersed religious freak
tomgfromcanadaFeb 4, 2012
Amen!
angrycat70Feb 3, 2012
This guy never gets tired of being a jackass does he?
Stalin and Mao were atheists. Check their body count you f**king idiot.
quadeFeb 4, 2012
Hitler was a Christian, and killed more than Stalin and Mao combined (if you don't count famine towards Mao's count).
Hitler 34M
Stalin 20M
Mao 10M*
Or do you just have to merely shoot holes in your opponent's argument to win?
*Mao's attempt at restructuring China's economy lead to widespread famine and infrastructure collapse which claimed the lives of ~30M more. But death as the result of a leader's ineptitude can't count towards death caused by the intent of his actions when the real discussion is examining how his religion/atheism plays into those deaths.
diggerineFeb 4, 2012
Hitler was anything but a true Christian. In fact his actions showed he was the very opposite. That's why many Christians believe he was an Anti-Christ. People can call themselves Christian, but many are really not.
Mao and Stalin were true atheists, however. They truly did not believe in God.
quadeFeb 4, 2012
If a true atheist is someone who does not believe in God, then Hitler was a true Christian, since he did believe in God and attended a Christian church.
Also, I'm unaware of *any* Christians who believe that Hitler was the Anti-Christ. Who?
diggerineFeb 4, 2012
A true atheist is a person who denies the existence of God or any deity. Stalin and Mao are true atheists.
A true Christian is a person who believes in the teachings of Jesus Christ and lives his life according to those teachings, the heart of which is love for God and his/her fellow man/woman. Examples of true Christians would be Jesus Christ, Mother Teresa, and St. Francis of Assisi. Gandhi, although not baptized Christian, can be said to have acted like a true Christian, insofar as he advocated peace and love for fellow human beings.
Adolf Hitler categorically does not fit that description of being Christian. He was consumed by an evil lust for power and profound hatred.
For examples as to how many Christians do view Hitler as the Anti-Christ, simply google "hitler as antichrist". Here are some links:
http://camelotforum.net/index.php?option=com_kunena&amp;func=view&amp;catid=24&amp;id=42119&amp;Itemid=164
http://community.beliefnet.com/dondiegodelavega/blog/2011/03/19/was_hitler_the_antichrist_or_destined_to_be
http://www.biblenews1.com/astrology/acharts/hitler_adolf.html
melthornalFeb 4, 2012
Who the f**k cares who you think is a Christian and who you don't think is a Christian? It really isn't up to you, is it? Or anyone else, for that matter.
It always struck me as pretty ironic and humorous when Christians go around saying this or that is the real way of doing things. God said this and god said that blah blah blah. It is all blasphemy. You know, the highest sin in Christianity. The worst thing a person could ever do. The sin where begging god for forgiveness may not ever be enough.
Anyhow, that has always amused me.
prinzrobFeb 4, 2012
So Christians aren't allowed to self identify, and you get to claim only the ones that fit your personal ideal? Verrrrrry convenient...
Can I do the same thing for atheists whose actions I don't agree with?
diggerineFeb 4, 2012
melthornal, prinzrob, do you have a problem with the definition of 'Christian' that I gave? The root word is 'Christ', so to be a Christian is to think and act like Jesus Christ.
Sure, people can self-identify themselves as whatever. You can call yourself a Republican, but if you think and act like a Democrat or a Communist or a Socialist, you're not really a Republican, are you?
A government or a country can call itself democratic (like the People's Democratic Republic of China, or of Cuba, or of North Korea), but if it suppresses, oppresses, starves, and kills its own people, it's really not a democratic government, is it?
If Hitler thinks and acts directly like the opposite of what a Christian should think and act like, he's not really a Christian, regardless of what he calls himself, is he?
One can call oneself mature, civilized and decent, but if one acts in a manner opposite those traits, one really isn't mature, civilized or decent, is one?
prinzrob, how would you define a true atheist. I gave you my definition. How about you give yours, even if it's "Verrrrrry convenient..."
rileymaniaFeb 4, 2012
Nicely done.
imaginaryforcesFeb 4, 2012
Bravo.
CalTjaderFeb 3, 2012
Ron Paul, bitches!
blydchyldFeb 4, 2012
Yay, Ron Paul... till he goes to prison :)
I guess you watch fox news, so you would know nothing about this little treat.
http://pastebin.com/t8mbyQUS
mercedrocksFeb 4, 2012
Bill's an idiot. Religious or not doesnt make it easier to see people killed.
volaitle86Feb 4, 2012
AMEN!
drcrankFeb 3, 2012
Amen, Bill! ;)
manicdvlnFeb 3, 2012
Did this guy get molested by a priest, why is he so anti-religion?
theswashbucklerFeb 4, 2012
Religion is a major cause of world problems, perhaps THE major cause.
sloppyjoes7Feb 4, 2012
Communist regimes, in the past century, have murdered twice as many people as casualties from World War II.
Don't pretend like atheists haven't done terrible things.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
theswashbucklerFeb 4, 2012
You do realize that there are more bad things than murder in the world, right?
sloppyjoes7Feb 4, 2012
So... You're just dismissing the fact that communists have murdered over 100,000,000 people in the past century... why?
melthornalFeb 4, 2012
It has nothing to do with communism or religion. Totalitarian dictatorship leads to people getting killed. To which everyone else responds 'duh.'
bluenose2Feb 4, 2012
Atheism is a non-prophet belief system
ophelloFeb 4, 2012
I'm anti-religion and I've never been directly harmed by it. I also think guns are dangerous, even though I've never been shot.
Think before you type!
akronFeb 3, 2012
Now I know where people get Digg submissions: Reddit...
theonewhoknowsFeb 3, 2012
You know nothing.