Users who Dugg This
killer bunnie
1631 Followers
Caroline Thompson
1652 Followers
techilaJul 13, 2010
Doctors can't match a Mothers undying will to find a cure, can they?
norman619Jul 14, 2010
Actually medicine is more art than science. People seem to think doctors can magically figure out what's wrong with you when in reality it's trial and error usually. The guessing process we see the doctors on House go through is pretty close to the truth. The mother got lucky is all.
doncarajoJul 14, 2010
House is probably the LEAST realistic medical show I've seen...
norman619Jul 14, 2010
They are ALL unrealistic. LOL!!! I'm talking about the deductive reasoning process they go through to try and diagnose their patients.
michrechJul 14, 2010
Why do you think doctors call what they do "practice"? ;)
cadosJul 14, 2010
I was very afraid that you were using House as your source for "realistic" medical science >_>
robbh66Jul 14, 2010
You are a f**king moron if you think House is anywhere near real.
unfatherJul 14, 2010
Yeah but the theme in that show is that all his patients have extreme ailments that require such extreme measures. Although fantastic, they typically aren't much more drastic than chemo is for cancer patients (in that it is).
pircoJul 14, 2010
A perfect example of this is Graves' disease. It is the most common autoimmune disease and most patients will not get diagnosed for months or even years. It's symptoms are very common(depression, weight loss, racing heart), so they go through saying they have disease after disease with none of them being right.
lonewolf01Jul 14, 2010
The closest I've seen to actual medicine is Scrubs.
eschompthisJul 14, 2010
House? lol I stopped watching that show when his co workers realized he was addicted to pain killers and was asking patients for their medicine. So much for being realistic.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
buckrogers1965Jul 14, 2010
There are really amazing AI computer programs that given a list of symptoms will print out a list of possible conditions, in order of percentage of population with that condition.
Even things that only effect a few people on earth.
It will print out the test to run to confirm or deny each condition as well.
They are easy to do too, it asks 10 questions, then based on those 10 questions asks a few more questions until it narrows down your symptoms in a very reliable way.
Why are doctors not using these programs?
bigviJul 15, 2010
Sorry but using House to argue medicine is as useful as invoking 24 when debating terrorism.
gamerxr72Jul 14, 2010
Generally, yes they can. And generally they will exceed it by actually fixing the problem.
However, in this specific case no they cannot.
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
Yep, and it only took her a couple hours of online research to find the diagnosis that the doctors couldn't figure out in 9 months.
Quite amazing that the doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong with her. When I have to fix an electron microscope and I can't figure out what the problem is I don't just shrug and say I don't know what is wrong, I bust ass and do as much research as it takes to resolve the problem.
Sounds like a bunch of over paid slackers.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
feelmypimphandJul 14, 2010
If they spent more than 5 min with each patient they might have more success.
On to the next billable comment!
smemilyJul 14, 2010
Switch docs if you can. Look for someone that will talk to you when you're clothed, so you feel more comfortable, and only has you wear the little gown for as long as absolutely necessary. Look for someone who sits down and talks to you at your level, who doesn't stand above you, patronize you, or talk above your head. There are good docs out there, I promise.
nomadofthehillsJul 14, 2010
I think smemily has a crush on her doctor.
jjesusfreak01Jul 15, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
My GP is great. He only accepts patients he knows and he spends as much time with you as he can. I once spent 40 minutes talking to him about everything I was stressing over (health-related) and he really helped (and he didn't bill my insurance for the time).
I know not everyone can be lucky enough to know a great doctor like that, but you should make sure to at least shop around for GPs a bit before settling for what your insurance randomly selects for you.
Closed AccountJul 25, 2010
you have a doctor who is more likely to be sued because they sound as though they have poor bedside manner.
oxidaneJul 14, 2010
are you saying we 10 years of medical school is worth less than a mother going online and checking health websites that often contradict each other, and often have articles written by people outside the medical profession? what about those alternative medicine articles, written by bored lonely women in their 40s, who advocate herbs and rocks for curing terminal illnesses?
cadosJul 14, 2010
umad? /oldlady
charlotte_webJul 14, 2010
I wonder if she sent the docs a link to lmgtfy.com
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
Nice! I was forced to subtract 2 internets from you because of your weak comment on the Bush billboards but this one earned you an easy +5 internets.
;)Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
TheHatoradeCafeJul 14, 2010
If doctors cared, or though children had the capacity to hurt they would be better able to help, but so many that I ran into when I was younger and in constant pain related to Ehlers-Danlos Syndrom just don't. I was told dozens of times "You are too young to be in the pain you describe"Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
opiebreathJul 14, 2010
I'm sorry you had such a s**tty experience with doctors, but I promise not all of them are like that.
hansard85Jul 14, 2010
It's really unfortunate that things went that way for you but you have to understand. If a doctor allowed himself to care for every patient like a mother then that doctor wouldn't be practicing very long. It's a f**ked up sad world we live in and doctors have to look at death and disease objectively, it's the only way. These guy's are just doing there job the only way they can, it's unfortunate that people die because doctor's don;t care enough but it's better than having no doctors at all because no one could deal with the kind of stress losing a friend puts on you, especially not multiple times per day.
apexnyJul 15, 2010
I remember reading Richard Feynman's tale of searching for his wife's disease, and realizing it was tuberculosis before the doctors had any idea. So yes. I think it is quite often that relatives without training and education go in search for a cure that the doctors didn't realize.
nikolesmashJul 13, 2010
If the mother knew so much about her daughters symptoms she could essentially google it, why couldn't the doctors figure it out :-/
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
Because a lot of doctors are idiots.
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
Because doctors vary widely in skill, but are still people and even the best are not perfect.
FTFY
rglarson13Jul 14, 2010
Yeah, they just let any moron off the street stumble into medical school, which is also a cake walk.
norman619Jul 14, 2010
Because there are prob MANY things that have similar symptoms. Knowing too much can hinder you. I see it all the time int he IT field when we have to deal with some issues.
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
"It works better if you plug it in."
People laugh, but this question provides a solution more often than most realize.
norman619Jul 14, 2010
LOL!!! Isn't that the truth!
unfatherJul 14, 2010
Rebooting seems to be the most effective thing one can do to resolve a problem in my opinion, at least in relation to the amount of effort required.
xtc46Jul 14, 2010
Very true. When you see 15 symptoms, and you start using them all to diagnose a single issue, and at times they can cancel out possibilites. It is very importat when diagnosing an issue to realise that more than 1 thing can be occuring, so if symptom 12 occurs, and you cancel out possible diagnoses b becasue of it, you could be making an error if there are actually 2 problems, each causing symptoms.
Diagnostics (in both humans and IT) is an art and a science. Human nature is to fit the symptoms with stuff you know about, and then act from there, one you hit the limit of what you know, that logic can become a barrier becasue you no longer have all of the data and begin making bad assumptions based on partial info.
But this is what makes it fun. I however stick to diagnosing networks and computers...not people.
atomic1fireJul 26, 2010
At the same time, you might end up with a cybercondriac, someone who assumes they have a certain problem based on specific symptoms.
People can always do guesswork and look at what is in front of them, but I am pretty sure that testing is still a nessesary part of the medical field.
It's one thing to not consider the possibilities, but to act like a person solved the problem because they found a medical issue on the internet is a bad idea.
that being said, this lady probably did some research before considering it, since she probably knew all her daughters problems.
pimpdawgJul 14, 2010
Their time is budgeted to something like 5 minutes per patient in order to generate profitable results for their employer. It's all about line-item billing the insurance on a line-item basis. Ideally they would bill on a time or results basis, but that's just not reality. The whole thing is a gigantic fraud.
norman619Jul 14, 2010
It's not a fraud it's business. This is what happens when we expect the insurance companies to cover everything instead of just the serious issues as they used to.
bulletbillxJul 14, 2010
Which is exactly why we should go to a single payer system.
rglarson13Jul 14, 2010
I'm always baffled by people with this viewpoint. I realize that there are some healthcare systems that must suck, but that's never been my experience.
I have private insurance (it's mediocre), and I see a private doctor at a private clinic (Health Partners). I always get great care. I went in for what I thought was a lung infection, spent half an hour talking to the doctor while he listened to my lungs, did an EKG, etc. He then referred me for a chest x-ray and an ultrasound.
I got the x-ray, and didn't bother to schedule the ultrasound; he's called twice since then to remind me about it. The second time, we chatted for about 5 minutes about the risks of not getting it, why I didn't want to bother ($50 copay, x-ray doc said it was really unlikely that it'd find anything, since my x-ray was clear), and then he told me to be sure to come back in if it got worse.
He didn't get it figured out, but he did all the tests I would have expected, and I didn't feel like I was getting the brush-off.
I've always had great care from doctors, and they've always done a great job of listening to me.
pimpdawgJul 14, 2010
In some countries X-ray is considered technology from the 1950, obsoleted by things like MRI. But here it just costs less, so we use it more. Who cares if X-ray alters DNA and causes birth defects, right? USA! USA! USA!
esteskidJul 14, 2010
The "gigantic fraud" saves millions of lives?
ldkronosJul 14, 2010
@PimpDawg
x-rays are generally harmless in typical use. Most people average less than 1 set of medical x-rays per year (and perhaps up to 2 sets of dental x-rays). With that level of exposure it's pretty much harmless. Even people that are exposed to it more often aren't in much danger (except for the medical staff, who may encounter it on a daily basis, and thus they tend to stand in a different room to minimize exposure).
As for your precious MRI, it has it's downsides
1) the hardware MUCH more expensive, so most doctors don't have a machine and will have to refer you to a hospital to have it done
2) you (or insurance) will pay significantly more for one
3) it takes longer. An x-ray can be done in just a few minutes, where as an MRI takes significantly longer. Also, you spend the extra time of setting up a second appointment, driving to the hospital, and sitting in their waiting room.
4) MRIs aren't always safer. There was a story earlier this year about a problem with MRIs where something (I think it was a software bug) caused the machine to calculate an incorrect exposure level. The result was that a LOT of people were exposed to unsafe levels of radiation during their MRIs.
jjesusfreak01Jul 15, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
ldkronosJul 15, 2010
@jjesusfreak01
The problem with that is that it makes catastrophic expenses more than they could be. It's pretty well agreed that preventative care costs are a lot less than what it saves is catastrophic care costs. It's easier to keep someone healthy or fix minor illnesses than to wait until things get serious and try to fix things then. If insurance doesn't cover routine visits, then the problem you end up with is people avoid seeing the doctor routinely in order to save themselves the out-of-pocket costs, and it ends up costing insurance even more in the long run.
It's a difficult problem, and I'm not sure how to solve it. Insurers have negotiated fixed prices for office visits and procedures to reduce their costs. Their pricing model doesn't provide doctors options for billing for extended examination and research time. They could add that, but then that becomes a very easy way for doctors to exploit the system and run up costs out of control.
gamerxr72Jul 14, 2010
Because doctors don't live with you 24 hours a day to observe the symptoms as they happen.
norman619Jul 14, 2010
jdames1980:
I forgot to add: Make sure you remember what you said when you need them to fix you.
The ignorance of some people is astonishing sometimes.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
grimreeperJul 14, 2010
Doctors aren't miracle workers. If doctors spent 1 hr with each patient someone would inevitably ask "why didn't you spend 2hrs to run more tests."
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
then have them spend 2 hours with us!
bry2Jul 14, 2010
I've worked in a hospital setting... a small one, where you'd expect more personal care.
If there were 80 patients admitted, there would be maybe 5 doctors staffed... and three would be dedicated to the overtaxed ED department.
There's a really good reason that you'll get less than 5 minutes of face time with a doctor per hour, on average... it has nothing to do with health care and everything to do with accounting.
sleestakslayerJul 14, 2010
The mother was more motivated because it involved her daughter. A doctor wants to see as many patients in a day that he can. He gets paid either way.
xtc46Jul 14, 2010
I dont think thats true accross the board. I'm not a doctor, im a computer tech. I get paid an hourly wage. I could go through 100 small issues in a day, or spend hours on a few difficult issues, and my pay would be the same. I dont just do easy issues. My day is usually devided by spending time on the hard issues until I hit a wall (like waiting on a vendor, or waiting on some other 3rd party. And do the small fast things in between the big ones.
I feel guilty if I cant resolve a big issue for a client, those are usually the ones that need fixing the most.
curtisagJul 14, 2010
Please, no Doctor is going to go online and actually perform research. They are too busy trying to squeeze as many appointments into their schedule as possible.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
tao52nycJul 14, 2010
Well, that IS the question, isn't it??
I went in about a year ago, for, shall we say, "a common procedure done every few years by men past 50". Prior to this procedure, the doc went off on how all vitamins and supplements were in his opinion useless and gave you nothing but expensive urine. And he told me to lay off the vitamin E for a day or so before the procedure, as it can impede coagulation in the event of a nick. OK I get that. He could have said just that and saved himself the rant.
Problem was, I never asked him about supplements, prescription drugs, or anything else. And it was also clear that he hadn't bothered to read 50+ years worth of peer-reviewed research about the efficacy of specific supplements. Some docs are running scared, I guess. I mean, if you can take a 5-cent capsule and significantly lower your risk of cancer, heart disease or diabetes, you may not be needing that $20+ a dose treatment, will you?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
rglarson13Jul 14, 2010
You do realize that vitamins aren't the same as medicine, right?
Medicines are often prescribed because by the time someone needs them, it's too late for preventative care. If people got a little exercise, cut down on the bacon, and took vitamins, they probably wouldn't have heart disease in the first place. But once you have that aneurism, that ship has sailed -- fix the damage, and *then* worry about avoiding the next one.
propethicJul 14, 2010
Sounds like you have trouble accepting the placebo effect and that most people do not have vitamin deficiencies, which is the only condition that you need to take a vitamin supplement for.. The other category of "supplements" are simply by and large not efficacious at all.
elliotysJul 14, 2010
tao52nyc
"And it was also clear that he hadn't bothered to read 50+ years worth of peer-reviewed research about the efficacy of specific supplements."
I would like to see one study, ONE, where supplementation for a person who wasn't deficient actually improved their health. Since you seem to be savvy on the literature, I am sure you will provide a deluge of studies. But then again, I am just a lowly pharmD, so what do I know?
Oh wait, I know your full of s**t.
wrath017Jul 14, 2010
Because they want you out the door ASAP, so they can get to the next patient and get paid.
teoriaJul 14, 2010
So much of the information out there isn't right anyways. She got lucky to stumble on to a *possibility* and then went to talk to more doctors.
Even this article inaccurately claims POTS is curable. For this girl and others diagnosed in their teens it may go away over time. For the majority of those diagnosed with POTS, however, it's a condition they deal with for life. One of my roommates has the condition and it's not going away soon. And it took him a year to figure it out. Actually, a lot of doctors are immediately jumping to the conclusion that a patient has POTS when the patients actually have something else. It's a growing trend. So articles out here on the internet aren't the best form of research. This article itself is one littered with incorrect information.
Research isn't just grabbing information. It's investigating information and analyzing it to discover facts.
entroperJul 14, 2010
It says that the mother spent hours searching online. It's not like she googled "vomiting and tachycardia" and it was the third hit.
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
My wife and one of my ex's had stomach issues growing up. They went to multiple doctors / emergency rooms and they always left without answers other than "Take some tylenol and get some rest" or "It's probably stress" or "The tests came back negative so you're fine!"
In fact, NOBODY I know has ever had a doctor nail it on the first go unless it was visible externally. Hell, one of my old friends was misdiagnosed with Crohn's for 18 years. Turns out he had Cystic Fibrosis. Died a few years later. Imagine how his life would have been different had he known he was going to die at 24 years old?
propethicJul 15, 2010
Doctors suck, especially with children and young adults. I had a bad throat infection about a decade ago and the doctor my parents took me to just kept saying it was just a cold or flu or some s**t, even though I've had a headache for a week straight that didn't respond to any OTC's.
stoanhartJul 13, 2010
If it really occurs in 1% of teen girls, you'd think it would be well known amongst doctors.
crossmrJul 14, 2010
yes, you'd expect a high school of 1200 to have about 6 girls with this problem (on average, not each), that seems significant enough that someone would figure out what is going on
hurricanedcJul 14, 2010
good thing there are more than 1200 high school girls in the US
cyclonusripJul 14, 2010
6/1200 = .005
12/1200 = .01
ikorkyiJul 14, 2010
"POTS may afflict up to 1% of all teens, about two-thirds of them girls"
crossmrJul 14, 2010
Statistically that's still a lot on average. It seems like something doctors should know far more about.
ikorkyiJul 14, 2010
it may not afflict up to 1% of teens.
it may afflict up to 0.01% of teens
it may not afflict up to 0.01% of teens
it may afflict up to 0.00001% of teens
robbh66Jul 14, 2010
Statistically, "may afflict" is statistically nothing.
s0nicfreakJul 14, 2010
But so many of these symptoms can mean something else with teen girls. Lots of stomach aches? Oh, your period will start soon. Vomiting? Bulimia or nervousness. And to both of those you can say "she's faking because she doesn't want to go to school." I'm sure a lot more than 1% of teen girls have one of those problems.
scottfarnerJul 14, 2010
"may afflict up to 1% of teens"
Many illnesses have varying degrees of severity. May cause infrequent minor discomfort in some, or frequent severe vomiting in others.
cmccoolJul 13, 2010
so what's an expert?
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
Someone with the same answer, but at three times the price.
esteskidJul 14, 2010
Someone who has studied the human body and the known problems with it for 8+ years?
pensiJul 14, 2010
A miserable little pile of secrets?
silas17Jul 14, 2010
Dugg for Symphony of the Night reference
asus3000Jul 25, 2010
The internet.
crazedleperJul 29, 2010
A person with a little knowledge and a profit motive.
Closed AccountJul 13, 2010
Doctors in Los Angeles.... That might be the problem right there. j/k
But prepare for more of this incompetence under Obongocare. The British sure enjoy it.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
studiopenguinJul 14, 2010
"Obongo"? Really? My parents raised me to respect the President regardless of whether or not I agreed with his policies. I'm sorry your parents failed you on that front.
rglarson13Jul 14, 2010
My parents raised me to always be suspicious of career politicians, no matter what side of the aisle they're on. A person who makes their living telling people what they want to hear is never going to follow through on everything they promise, and it's foolish to think that this time, it'll be different.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
studiopenguinJul 14, 2010
Don't get me wrong, I have no particular love for anyone in Washington. I just think that using snide pet names when referring to elected leaders is petty, juvenile, and counterproductive.
rglarson13Jul 14, 2010
Agree. There's plenty of easy ways to criticize politicians without resorting to name-calling.
xwatermelonJul 14, 2010
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH
I absolutely LOVE how this comment has 19 diggs.
I also love how on any article about George Bush there are disrespectful comments about Bush just like this "Obongo" comment with hundreds, if not thousands, of diggs.
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
propethicJul 14, 2010
watermelon, please learn how to troll. You look like an amateur
scottfarnerJul 14, 2010
My parents raised me not to be racist.
paranor01Jul 14, 2010
"A person who makes their living telling people what they want to hear is never going to follow through on everything they promise"
Have to ask... to you include reverands, ministers & priests ?
xwatermelonJul 15, 2010
How am I "trolling?"
It's true that on any article about Bush people will bash him and get dugg up yet when someone bashs Obama they get dugg down and then some idiot replies that his parents raised him to respect all presidents reguardless of their policies and he gets dugg up.
propethicJul 15, 2010
It's about context watermelon. You brought up Obama in a thread that had absolutely nothing to do with him, if you feel the need to mention some s**t about politicians in every comment section, that's called being a troll.
paranor01Jul 14, 2010
Freeper racist troll is obvious douche.
And if the British health care was so bad, wouldn't Stephen Hawking have been put out to pasture and killed? Oh wait, he's purported to be 'merican wasn't he.
Stupid is as stupid does, in this case Dilberto.
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
"The British sure enjoy it."
What the f**k do you know? Myself, my girlfriend and countless family members and friends of mine owe their lives to the NHS - people who would have been refused care in the US because of the bulls**t insurance companies.
The NHS isn't perfect, but you're a fool to think that the pre-"Obamacare" American system is.
It says a lot about a society who leave their sick and poor to die.
s0nicfreakJul 14, 2010
It is illegal to refuse anyone care in the US. They may have been referred to a different hospital and billed for what their insurance wouldn't cover, but not refused care.
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
Considering insurance companies will do anything to get out of making payouts the patient will end up in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt so that their lives are absolutely ruined because they got sick.
Like I said before, the NHS isn't perfect and there's room for improvement (improvement that is being made now with new changes proposed to take the power away from managers and give it to the doctors) but it is far better than the barbaric US system and you'll be hard pressed to find a Briton who isn't proud of it, despite its flaws.
glassagateJul 14, 2010
Yes, let's continue the private health care fiasco that the US currently
has. Let's not care when Aetna drops 500K customers, and some
time later, announces record profits.
Not everything needs to make a profit.
s0nicfreakJul 14, 2010
If you don't like Aetna, you are free to pay for your health care yourself.
glassagateJul 14, 2010
My point is that why should we have any sympathy for a private
health insurance company, when at one moment, they
drop 500K customers, saying that they need the money,
and then later, announce record profits?
They need no sympathy.
s0nicfreakJul 14, 2010
And my point is that with the current system you have options. If "Obongocare" is put into practice in America, will we have the option to not pay into it and not use it? Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
sageerrantJul 14, 2010
Yes. You can get your own insurance which will qualify you for a tax deduction negating that cost.
Or you can go without insurance and pay your full taxes.
Doubt is a fine thing, but Google is your friend.
glassagateJul 15, 2010
You will still have the option of keeping your existing provider.
s0nicfreakJul 15, 2010
@sageerrant
"Or you can go without insurance and pay your full taxes."
So paying the doctor directly is not an option (unless one wants to pay twice)?
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
Obongocare?
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
aah just when I thought I've seen all these incredibly stupid nicknames, along comes "Obongocare", which I honestly don't even understand. I guess Obama plays bongos.
Perhaps we can think of an equally "clever" name for you. Dumberto?
mshorty1292Jul 14, 2010
I think I may be alone on this, but I sensed he was making a strike against all the weed in California? I mean oBONGocare is what I saw...?
danj484Jul 14, 2010
gb2 Stormfront
jcb08jJul 13, 2010
this just goes to show how little doctors care (at least most of them)
survivetherageJul 14, 2010
A man staggers into an emergency room with a concussion, multiple bruises, two black eyes and a five iron wrapped tightly around his throat. Naturally, the doctor asks him what happened.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
rakusukJul 14, 2010
must've got the search terms wrong....
kronos6948Jul 14, 2010
Then, after the explanation, the doctor gives Tiger his prognosis.
evange106Jul 14, 2010
This was a one in a million coincidence that happened to be right. The other 999,999 times self diagnosis via google is just a waste of the doctor's time and resources.
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
You mean.. It's NOT lupus?
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
No, but I loved Sharon Green in that movie.
crossmrJul 14, 2010
no and its not aspergers
smemilyJul 14, 2010
It's also not morgellons. If you think you have morgellons, you need to lay off the meth.
metaldwarfJul 14, 2010
It is never Lupus, except that one time it was Lupus.
smedrickJul 14, 2010
You couldn't be more wrong. A crowd-sourced diagnosis from the internet is often much more accurate than a doctor could provide. A doctor will always rely on his past experience first. If you have symptoms even remotely resembling a past case, the doctor will always start there. Internet forums, on the other hand, allow patients with successful treatments to share their experience with others. There's a much better chance that someone experienced the exact same thing you have on the internet than your doctor having treated someone with those same symptoms.
Doctors don't go through med school because they're good problem solvers, they make it through med school because they have good memorization skills. I never trust a doctor to make the right call. I always check the internet first and then check again after the doctor has given a diagnosis. The only thing they're good for anymore is giving you access to medication.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
grimreeperJul 14, 2010
Alright Internet smart guy clearly a Doctor has given you a wrong diagnosis and you decided "pffft medical school, I'm from the internet!"
A crowd sourced diagnosis could be (but isn't) viable, if forum postings were all accurate. A significant portion will have self diagnosed themselves and your gonna take there opinion over a doctors? You think because you have the same symptoms as someone you have the same diagnosis.
I have no problem talking to a doctor about something you read online but the alternative is if you have cancer and think "pffft double blind peer reviewed studies, digg cures cancer every week yay....ignorance is bliss"
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
I seem to recall reading not too long ago that if you Google causes of headaches, you get just about the same number of results talking about brain tumors as results talking about caffeine withdrawal.
Guess which is actually the more common cause.
The problem with the Internet is that there is SO much data that it's next to impossible for a lay person to separate the relevant pieces from the general sludge of FUD. It's wonderful that this woman happened upon the right answer, but let's get real here: IT WOULDN'T BE NEWS IF IT WERE THE NORM. For every story like this one, you get hundreds of hysterical moms rushing their precious darlin' to the emergency room just to find out that all the kid needed was a laxative.
smedrickJul 14, 2010
A large collection of detailed, written accounts of both symptoms and treatments from patients is far more valuable than a single doctor's experience. And yes, they are accurate. A patient can give far more detail about an ailment than any doctor could. Suffering from an illness quite a bit different than just reading about the illness in a book.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
smedrickJul 14, 2010
@WhiskeyLemur - Except that a condition that's difficult to diagnose usually presents itself with more than one symptom. The key is to be able to pick apart the useless articles from actual useful patient accounts. It can be time-consuming, but it's definitely manageable for the "lay person".Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
fxu1989Jul 14, 2010
"A doctor will always rely on his past experience first. If you have symptoms even remotely resembling a past case, the doctor will always start there. Internet forums, on the other hand, allow patients with successful treatments to share their experience with others. There's a much better chance that someone experienced the exact same thing you have on the internet than your doctor having treated someone with those same symptoms."
You talk about how the doctor's experience is wrong and how the experience of the people on the internet is correct.
wat?
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
Ah, I came into the thread looking for a comment like yours, and you didn't dissapoint.
The obvious first point to make would be "source, please". I'm sure you'll forgive my not wanting to take your extraordinary claim as true just because you say so. But if you're interested, being an MD I can tell you why I think you're wrong.
It is somewhat true what someone in an earlier comment said about it being a little bit of art, but it is also a science. I don't take offense that you essentially see the 10+ years of medical training as useless, but try to think that the first ones looking for an easier way around it are ourselves, and we haven't come up with a "flash course to googling" to replace medical school is because it's just simply impossible.
Aside from the fact that a doctor's job in the diagnostic algorithm is mostly to separate the relevant symptoms from the irrelevant ones, I just don't understand why you'd say (and think) a single doctor's experience is of so little importance (specially when compared to the diluted, heterogeneous, biased, emotional, and individually different experiences from people who suffer some disease {and this mess of an examples assumes impossibly good odds, like everyone telling the truth, you being able to contact a group full of people with the same disease, etc, which doesn't really happen in the internet that I know. Not that that'd be useful even if true, since to do that you'd need to know the disease beforehand which kind of defeats the purpose}). A doctor is a compilation of all those experiences, but abstracting the individual differences (and the emotional component) and getting a much more complete view of the disease than any patient ever could. You seem to think this is not the case: why is that? Do you not believe a patient is able to transmit this information to the doctor, or that the doctor cannot learn it? Do you think the human language is uncapable of encoding all the subtleties of what they're feeling? (If this was the case then the internet wouldn't have much point either now, would it?) So what't your reasoning? You just have no IDEA of the sheer amount of hours we dedicate to seeing patients while at school (and after it). At this point in my (very young still) career I have already seen 99.999% of the diseases I will ever see in my life, and the vast majority of them a few dozens and hundreds (and yes, even a few thousand) times. The diseases I have not seen yet, I know are so rare that I might never see one, or if I'm very lucky I might get to see once or twice. Not that I don't know them, mind you; I've still studied them and am fairly prepared to look for them. The rest of my carreer will be spent perfecting these skills and experiences.
I'm sorry for whatever happened to you that made you distrust doctors so much. Obviously not everyone is a good doctor, but even the great ones have their slip-ups. But to even remotely suggest that a layperson can jump into google and substitute a doctor... that's just madness.
What would you tell me if I offered to remodel your house (I like architecture), just by using my imagination and looking up the requirements in google? How about building a ship? A rocket?
robbh66Jul 14, 2010
"A crowd-sourced diagnosis from the internet is often much more accurate than a doctor could provide"
OH NOES! THE INTERNET HAS SPOKEN AND THE INTERNET IS NEVER WRONG!!!!!
slvrbullet87Jul 14, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
seculrprogrsiveJul 15, 2010
@priegog
You are clearly quite the arrogant douche, and I'm very glad you're not my doctor. I've had doctors like you though, you arrogant prick.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
@SeculrProgrsive (ironic name there)
I'm sorry you disagree. I'm actually told I'm quite the opposite of a douche, but of course, you're entitled to your own opinion. It'd be hard for me to take it seriously, you not knowing me and all, however...
I would like to know why you think so, so that we can discuss that, or at the very least, why you are responding with an ad-hominem instead of showing me why and where I'm wrong.
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
That's a ridiculous statement for which you have no facts to back it up. You have to take into consideration who is doing the searching. A web savvy intelligent person can easily diagnose an illness via internet research.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
ymegJul 14, 2010
You aren't a medical expert just because you are web savvy.
potchi79Jul 14, 2010
No, he's totally right.
Lets see... headache...feeling run down...OMG WEBMD SEZ I HAVE CANCER!
liuiteJul 14, 2010
Experts don't know everything about a subject. When I learned to scuba, I thought I was going to vomit during every dive....non of the veteran divemasters knew that the dry compressed air could increase sensitivity in the mouth and cause a gagging sensation.
suricouJul 15, 2010
When I learned to scuba... oh, wait. I *did* vomit. What's why there's a big 'flush out the vomit' button on the regulator.
liuiteJul 15, 2010
if you don't chew your food well you can clog the regulator and cause it to fail, and when you gasp you could swallow water. if you chewed it real well you well attract some fish to feed on your vomit.
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
Yeah you don't read stories in the NYTimes about all the mothers who did the exact same thing and got it wrong. This article will serve as confirmation bias for all the moronic mothers who truly think they are better than doctors.
crocodile7Jul 14, 2010
@Evange106
That's what the doctors would like us to believe (for job security reasons), and also what most people would like to believe (doubting a doctor's diagnosis is frightening).
Doctors with experience can often make better judgement call than non-experts searching the net. That weird-looking bruise is not Lyme's disease. However, it's good to come prepared, ask questions, and use a doctor as a resource to guide your decisions, rather than just hand yourself over.
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
Replace "doctor" with "naval engineer", "nuclear scientist" or any other highly-specialized profession.
See if your statement still holds water (yes, they are comparable {at least for the intents and purposes of this example}, and if you don't think so I'd like to read a logical argument that proves otherwise)
I know that entrusting your life to a stranger can be frightening, and even make you feel patronised (specially by the way some doctors behave). But that does not make your wishes true.
Can we stop with these conspiracy theories? I'm sure if I asked you wheter you NEVER went to the doctor you'd answer you actually do, but only because the evil goverment has put laws to prevent you from getting any real medication OTC. You know, some countries (don't know if the US does) have exams that will evaluate your knowledge in medicine, and if passed, will grant you a medical degree. You could take one of those and not only provide for your own needs, but also free your friends and family from teh evil medical mafia! What's that? You won't take the tests because clearly they are designed to only be correctly answered by people who've gone to the appropriate schools (where they give out the secret codes), and not by people who have REAL knowledge in medicine? DAMN THEM!!!
Seriously now. I'm not saying people shouldn't interest themselves in their healths, or ask questions, but to be honest, >90% of people who "inform themselves" beforehand (by googling the s**t out of everything and anything they can think of), just plainly get in the way of their own diagnoses and make matters all kinds of worse. When you have 15min for each patient (and in some companies you may get as little as 5 {which for the most part in most cases should be perfectly adequate to find out what's wrong and decide what to do next, BTW} spending 10 minutes explaining why it CAN'T be {ridiculous_disease_0}, or why getting a CAT is totally uncalled for in this particular situation (and even detrimental to your health), REGARDLESS of what JimmY08 on donttrustdoctors.com said, is neither an efficient or a beneficial use of the doctor's (and even the patient's!) time. And most of the times, also, it ends up damaging the doctor-patient relationship by exhausting the doctor's patience and undermining the patient's confidence in the doctor (it happens when you perceive your doctor as rude or not wanting/willing to take some time with you). So not good for anyone involved. And it's not arrogance, just the simple fact that a doctor's job is not to teach medicine to his patients (which is very different from giving the information they need to know relevant to their conditions/treatments/tests, which SHOULD be {and is} given). TBH, if you're that interested in the matter I can give you bibliography to start your education on some basic biochemistry, anatomy, phisiology, genetics, immunology, histology, medical pathology, and a large list of etceteras.
Look at it this way: doctors are FORCED to deal with this on a day-to-day basis, while, for instance, no-one would think to gather the engineers in charge of solving the oil spill and have the guy from youtube lecture them on how they should use hay to absorb the oil from the sea water... Nor do you hear (well, you do, but you get my point) people going "who needs them!! duhh! we can solve this problem on our own! google says bird feathers can soak up to 200 times their weight in oil!".
So yeah, I'm sorry if I don't go around recommending patients to google their symptoms, make a list of s**t to ask/suggest, and bring it to the appointment, when only maybe 1 in 20 patients who do this bring up something that isn't outright annoying (let alone actually useful!). Information in undoubtedly good; thinking that by reading a wikipedia article you know more about the subject than your doctor (yeah, even if you memorised the 25 currently described genes implicated in that disease, and your doctor doesn't know them off the top of his head, please don't even think about bringing up one of those anecdotes) is actually arrogant and sometimes dangerously stupid on your part.
rkthoadanJul 14, 2010
The old statement "When you hear hoofbeats you look for a horse, not a zebra" has been somewhat over-emphasized with many doctors. They're so used to handling the standard diseases that some of them have lost the ability to even look for the more unusual ones. Many of them are not very internet savvy and tend to distrust non-official medical sources. They are also often nearly useless outside their area of specialty, and since this was a nervous system disorder the Docs they were seeing were probably clueless. What actually surprises me the most is that they hadn't found it based on the tachycardia. That's a pretty major symptom to miss.
alpinestars777Jul 15, 2010
I'm guessing this expression does not apply if you're in Tanzania.
prettygreenJul 14, 2010
A couple weeks ago my doctor goes to Wikipedia, turns the screen around, and comes to the exact same diagnosis as I had.
:-|
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
Did he search for the symptoms on wikipedia, or did he type in the name of the disease to show it to you?
Other than that:
/cool story bro
blackhole82Jul 14, 2010
It must be at least 2 in a million now since this is the second story I've seen like this on digg in the past year alone.
/s
ldkronosJul 15, 2010
what makes you think it's no 2 in 2 million?
greenskyJul 14, 2010
I'm not so sure. I bet the mom spend countless hours researching. Nobody would be more driven to figure out the problem than her. Patients are lucky if they spend any sort of time with their doctors anymore, and they are so busy they don't have that kind of time to research the issue.
When a doctor doesn't figure it out, what are you supposed to do? Reading the ABC.com link the doctors basically wrote her off as being crazy and said she needed to see a psychologist:
"I got this all the time: 'She's doing it on purpose.' 'She needs therapy,'" said Lairmore. "And I got told more times than I want to hear ever again, 'She's doing it for attention.'" (source: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/teen-finds-cure-mystery-illness-mayo-clinic-mother/story?id=11142991)
Researching it on the Internet seems like a productive use. Sure, you may misdiagnose the problem, but at least you can bring new possibilities to your doctor and as a mother she wasn't going to give up on her daughter.
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
Or, you know, the daughter might have actually been faking it (or worse, having a psycosomatic disorder {both are terribly common, might I add}), and the mother might have been making it all the worse (in any of the 2 possibilities, for different reasons) by insisting that there was something ORGANICALLY wrong with her baby. Had she taken her to the psychiatrist, he would have discarded these possibilities in a 20-minute interview, and the mother would be able to pressure the other doctors further into considering diferential diagnosis (and the doctors would have done so gladly knowing that the most common cause for those kinds of symptoms had already been discarded).
Just because the gastros in this story were wrong does not mean they didn't act like they should have. The psychiatrist (having had neurology as part of his training) might even have smelled it and derived her to a neurologist.
This is a non-story of a stubborn woman who happened to get a happy ending through the wrong means.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
cyberfixaJul 15, 2010
Priegog, please tell me you do not have children or ever plan to.
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
cyberfixa: why, because I wouldn't take the emotional approach as opposed to listening what the doctors told me? Well, that's an odd thing to say.
Doctors DO commit mistakes, but those are the anectdotes, not the rules (like this story).
I'm really sorry you feel that way, since everyday kids are hurt (unintentionally) by their well-meaning parents by not liking what their doctors tell them and (for instance) taking them to see alternative healers. Or at the very least, by delaying the diagnosis. Like I believe happened in this case (as I already explaines), despite the "happy" ending (if you can call that having the girl suffering for 2 years).
I do understand it sounds ugly when a doctor tells you your kid might have a psychiatric problem; what parents DON'T understand, is that when a doctor suggests they see a psychiatrist is just another way of confirming/disproving a VERY COMMON etiology. If it turns out to be that, good; if it doesn't then they can carry on with different hypothesis.
In my mind this isn't very different than a case that recently happened at my hospital, where a patient refused a test (an ecocardiogram) 2 years ago, and was recently diagnosed with a very advanced valvulopathy. He sued the hospital for diagnosis delay. Naturally, the hospital (and the cardiologist) were absolved because that test would have shown it back then, when the treatment was far far easier and safer.
So no, I actually don't see why you'd suggest I'd be a worst parent than you. (as a psycological protip, parents who are way too eager to believe their kids against everyone and even when confronted with overwhelming evidence are the ones responsible for their kids growing up to have a few histrionic personality traits... which seem all too common in kids these days)
binarypoliticsJul 14, 2010
..and you probably got that from watching House.
amirahfusionJul 14, 2010
Unfortunately, if you have something rare, it's almost up to you to find out what it is. I spent years going to many different orthopedic specialists just to get misdiagnosed over and over again. Took years to figure out (on my own, through research, then confirmed by an expert of the disease years later) that I had a somewhat rare disease called Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome. In retrospect it is frustrating because I CLEARLY had the major symptoms, and doctors had even made notes about how weak my ligaments looked during surgery, but never made the damned correct diagnosis. it's frustrating and sometimes you have to go out on your own to find out what's wrong.
evange106Jul 14, 2010
I do have something rare. I have eosinophilic esophagitis. It was diagnosed by a doctor.
amirahfusionJul 14, 2010
mine was also diagnosed by a doctor, but the nature of my disease made diagnosis difficult. All the people I know who also have it struggled for years, sometimes decades, to get the proper diagnosis and care. I have been to SOOO many doctors, of so many different kinds, even at research and children's hospitals. This seems to be the story of every single EDS patient I know....and many of us even learned to ask our doctor about it through research. Yes, of course there are hypochondriacs diagnosing themselves on the internet, but there are also people who are struggling with finding a diagnosis using it to learn more and research. The point I was trying to make is that it can be a helpful tool when what you have goes undiagnosed for a long period of time.
scottfarnerJul 14, 2010
That's great that you finally found out that you have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome. That still doesn't do anything to change the underlying problem (an uncurable genetic mutation causing week connective tissues). Your orthopaedic specialist did his best to treat your specific problems as they arose. There are no specific orthopaedic interventions to improve your underlying condition.
amirahfusionJul 14, 2010
Actually, my orthopedic specialist did a terrible job. I saw him for 8 years...all the while having 3 surgeries that I shouldn't have (because my ligaments are weak and do not heal well). For years he would bring other doctors in to marvel at how easily my joints dislocated. Never did he mention a diagnosis. Finally, I dislocated my hip and did a lot of damage (age 23...even though I had told him it had been happening since day 1) and asked if I might have this disease...he suddenly decided that I needed to see a molecular geneticist...after 8 years of showing him that all my joints dislocate and that I'm incredibly flexible, he decides I might have the disease that has the major symptoms of joint dislocation and flexibility. 8 years that I could have been getting the proper treatment...more like 12 years with all the other doctors combined.
Although there are no orthopedic solutions as of now, there are many therapies that at least could have helped with my quality of life. For instance, before I was diagnosed, I was told I simply had "bad joints" and that I should never lift weights or anything else ever again. My joints deteriorated quickly, which sent me back on the search for what was going on. Years later, I met an expert, who researches and has EDS, and he taught me a whole knew PT regiment, focused on lifting small weights with half the movement range in order to make my muscles stronger and shorter. This has helped vastly and I would in much worse shape had I not had the diagnosis. The next helpful step would be massage therapy, as I have to rely on my muscles to keep all my joints in socket on a daily basis...they tend to get pretty tight and often spasm.
My point is that without my own research on the internet, I most certainly wouldn't have known to ask my doctors about EDS. Since then, 3 others in my family have been diagnosed, and I'm thankful they don't have to go through the BS I did.
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
I've read your story before (here on digg, on a similar article), and the only conclusion that I can make (other than your doctor might not be the most humanely-oriented) is that your country really needs to emphatise primary care. A family doctor (I think) who knew your case, as well as the fact that some people in your family had it too, might have had it easier to suspect an ultra-rare genetic condition and derive you to a geneticist. Pediatricians are good at these kinds of stuff, did you not have these problems as a kid?
What I'm trying to say is that, even tho 8 years seems like a long time, and your traumatologist didn't catch it, I can't really blame him (too much). For instance there is a world of difference between seeing him 2 times a year during that period and having seen him every month or so. There's also the whole deal of surgeons not being the most medically-oriented doctors out there. I do get why your case was nothing much more than a "curiosity" to him, tho: Whenever I see a person with a U shaped kidney my first instinct is not to look for a genetic condition (a couple of which are known to cause U-kidneys); and there ARE people with simply "bad joints/ligaments". Granted, all that means is that those "conditions" are just waiting for their genetic marker to be identified, but the fact remains they're a) not too serious, and b) there's really no treatment. Now, YOUR condition is a bit more serious and characteristic, but meh, it still doesn't have much of a treatment. I do realise the peace of mind of knowing that what you have is known brings, though.
All in all, I don't know what I'm trying to say. "cool story bro"?
kmeganJul 14, 2010
I hate this comment.
I diagnosed myself with POTS and was treating myself 2 years before getting an official diagnosis.
The symptoms are completely debilitating (can't stand for long periods of time, felt like I had glue in my lungs, hands fall asleep at night and you wake up in pain, GI pain...)
What's worse is when you have no idea what's happening to you, you think you could be dying, and 3 different docs including an ER doc have no idea what you have so they imply it's "anxiety". s**t sucks.
Until it happens to you...
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
I don't get why your experience is relevant to the discussion. Or what it is supposed to prove.
Maybe that an ER doc during an emergency is not the best person/place to diagnose a very rare condition? Granted. Is it that every once in a while a patient is able to diagnose himself? Sure. It happens.
None of this makes OP wrong. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
seculrprogrsiveJul 14, 2010
I can't believe you are being dugg for this asinine comment. Doctors are not gods. You can tremendously help yourself if you actively research your problems and have half a brain.
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
...While the WHO recomended GP/patients ratio is 1/1000 to 1/1500. (and it's not uncommon in some non-poor countries to have as few as 1/2500, and they work just fine)
Isn't data without context fun?
Oh noes! The architect I hired has had other 3000 clients, how is he supposed to give MY house the attention to detail it needs? /s
Doctors are not gods. But where did he claim they were? I'm confused...Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
dralezeroJul 15, 2010
Doing some research should help you explain your symptoms. You may not think about certain symptoms and not tell your doctor about them because you shrug them off as normal. Its the difference between "my computer is broke" and techs scrambling with all sorts of things or "my computer is doing something similar to this. can we check if thats what it is?" and the techs figure it out faster.
leepiiJul 14, 2010
Not all doctors are created equal, some get straight A's and some get C's, but both are allowed to "practice" medicine.
brandieselJul 14, 2010
so very true. and the phrase "practicing medicine" is SO unnerving.
liuiteJul 14, 2010
some will not rest until they find an answer and are always seen reading medical journals, while others won't even think about their work when they are off duty. Ok so they are human being, but our well being depends on them finding the answers. On the other hand, a doctor friend who is in her sixties has become so cynical of the practice that she couldn't even recommend what I could take for high histamine level which caused me to sneeze...I self medicated with a syrup and for a couple of day or two and it went away.
cyborg31Jul 14, 2010
Not all _people_ are created equal.
This equally applies to every other profession. Some people will be better than their peers in the same profession but that shouldn't discount the "lesser" person's skills/abilities.
lastdawnofmanJul 14, 2010
I discount those lesser people because their incompetence is causing needless expense and suffering. Stupid people suck.
robbh66Jul 14, 2010
Except they all have to "take medical boards" to "practice medicine."
tyrghastJul 14, 2010
Everyone lies.
-House
super6Jul 15, 2010
Superfreakonomics cited a study of ER docs that found that the worst ER docs was only marginally worse than the best ER doc. If you get licensed you probably know what you're doing
dontthinksoJul 15, 2010
"Not all doctors are created equal, some get straight A's and some get C's, but both are allowed to "practice" medicine."
Well, in medical school, perhaps. But all of them had straight A's through high school and undergrad.
Unless your doctor got his degree from another country or something.
shapedyJul 15, 2010
Some are better than others, yes, but doctors really are the best and brightest. Most of them have got their s**t together.
jeworldJul 14, 2010
My mother has been ill for well over a year and the doctors are unable to find what's wrong with her blood. When she questioned the titanium piece placed in her breast from a biopsy, EVERY doctor she has seen claims it's IMPOSSIBLE to be allergic to titanium. Then through reading I found http://www.melisa.org which can test for this allergy to titanium and other metals.
In short, Doctors are there to help us, but they are not gods and do not know it all like they all think they do.
crossmrJul 14, 2010
so is she allergic to it?
McScoliosisJul 14, 2010
"but they are not gods" - precisely
It would do many people good if they could just remember this, and not take everything at face value. Second-guess your doctor, do your own research, and for crap's sake, read about your prescriptions before you start swallowing whatever pills you were given.
jeworldJul 14, 2010
The Melisa foundation is primarily overseas. They only have two lab locations in the US. http://www.melisa.org/melisa-laboratories.php
We've contacted the lab and they moved to a new location in NJ. Hopefully we will know more in a few weeks after we can get the blood to them.
In my honest opinion, because she is disabled and on state healthcare, the doctors just keep making her come back every other week so they can collect their money from insurance. She has visited about 6 doctors and been admitted to three hospitals, and nobody can figure it out. They THINK its something wrong with blood (auto-immune related) and they want to give her chemotherapy. With her condition as is, I believe it will kill her. How can you order chemotherapy as a treatment if you can't even figure out what's wrong?
robbh66Jul 14, 2010
She's on state healthcare and you think the doctors keep having her comeback because they're getting "rich" off her?
Wow, you are galactically stupid if you think this is actually true.
Most doctors don't want to treat state healthcare patients because they LOSE MONEY on them, genius.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
jeworldJul 14, 2010
@robbh66
Yes, I am galactically stupid. I witness a doctor scratch their heads and twiddle their thumbs and can't figure out what's wrong. We receive a statement in the mail of EOB (if you even know what that is) and it shows where the doctor gets his share. I fail to see where they are losing here.
And if YOU think there aren't doctors out there doing such things, you are galactically stupid just as I am.
apetrieJul 14, 2010
Try being allergic to Aloe, if there is one thing people will not believe you over even a doctor.. YEESH!
Sure it's soothing and great for sensitive skin, unless you are allergic.. then its like rubbing acid all over yourself. I literally had to "burn" myself with pure Aloe in front of a doctor to prove it was the Aloe and not some other random additive to creams etc.
That stupid stuff is practically in everything =*(
rpatrick819Jul 14, 2010
Really sorry to hear about that situation; hope you guys are able to find it and treat it!
jbmcbJul 14, 2010
"During the past several years, there has been an advertising campaign, especially focused on dentists, to promote the so-called ‘memory lymphocyte immunostimulation assay’ (MELISA) for the detection of metal allergy. A study of the sparse scientific literature reveals that, as a consequence of its high number of false-positive results, this test is of no use for the diagnosis of metal allergy. Moreover, the claims of the developers of the test that metal allergy plays a role in several immune-mediated diseases, metabolic diseases, and neurological or mental disorders are not based on sound scientific evidence."
-Robert A.P. Koene, MD, PhD, emeritus professor of Nephrology Radboud University, Nijmegen, The Netherlands
insightfulJul 14, 2010
Jenny McCarthy - is that you?
MELISA is a fraud that perpetrates fear and makes money from those who do not know better.
"The low specificity of the two in vitro assays [MELISA] suggests that they are not useful for diagnosis of contact allergy to the metals gold, palladium and nickel, since a large number of false-positive results will be obtained."
In vitro lymphocyte proliferation as compared to patch test using gold, palladium and nickel.
Cederbrant K, Hultman P, Marcusson JA, Tibbling L.
Department of Surgery, Linköping University, Sweden.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9066505
crazedleperJul 29, 2010
There are people who have been allergic to water. One can probably be allergic to anything.
jeworldJul 14, 2010
Well, it's another chance my mother can obtain some answers. She doesn't have much time left since the doctors can't figure it out. One doctor basically told her if she doesn't start getting some sort of treatment that her organs will begin to shut down. If all else failed, wouldn't you guys try it for your mother too?
Anything is better than what the current doctors have told us.
jbmcbJul 15, 2010
I'm sorry your mother is so sick, but according to the scientific evidence available, doing the MELISA test will not tell you anything useful. You're as likely to get a false positive than anything else.
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
So let me get this straight:
* Your mom has some sort of hematologic problem (you could be more specific)
* You (and her) believe it is some sort of allergy to a piece of metal on her chest
* The doctors have told you this is virtually impossible (you know titanium is chosen for implants for precisely this reason, right?)
* You find company X that claims they will diagnose your mom's problem
* However, you haven't even sent any blood samples to them
* ERGO: Doctors are stupid, you are right, and this impossible-odds situation will save your mom.
Listen, I'm sorry, but you're not thinking straight. I'm really sorry about your mom, but from the looks of it (I'm taking mostly a wild-ass guess since I don't have a lot of info, but these cases look like this) it seems to be some sort of myeloma (mostly by their wanting to chemo her). Which of course has nothing to do with metals. These conditions are extremely prevalent in the elderly, are a little difficult to exactly pinpoint (not that it matters a lot because most of them are treated {or rather not treated} in the exact same way). The thing with these diseases is that while not being acutely aggresive like most cancers, they will end up killing you, it's just that it can take decades, so naturally, being most patients elderly and such, most times they are better off left alone. Because chemo might kill them faster, but also because chemo isn't all that effective to begin with.
I repeat: I have no ideal if this is what your mom has. So feel free to disregard that if it isn't.
Either way, you will be spending your money on a company that will be glad to tell you what you want to hear, whether it's the truth or not. But it won't help your mom.
The doctors have not left you without an answer. They already told you the treatment course. You just don't like it. Don't get me wrong, The chemo might very well kill her. But wishing otherwise won't help her. And neither will waiting for some itinerating lab to set shop back up.
As I said, depending on the case, oftentimes leaving the patient without treatment is the best course of action. Your mom seems to have reached the point where she can no longer go on without it. So therein lies the dilemma. Either way, depending on the disease, there are "lighter" chemo protocols designed to make the disease back up a little and give the patient a few more weeks/months.
My advice is to get it together, stop chasing wild geese, and listen to what your doctors are telling you. You (and her) have a decision to make, and if you keep the nonsense up, it will be decided for you. Not liking what your doctors have told you doesn't make it untrue/dissapear.
Good luck
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
How hard is it to remove the titanium? If you don't like the doctors you have now, can you find different doctors?
jascowhiz0Jul 14, 2010
Sounds like she wanted a medical marijuana golden ticket...
paranor01Jul 14, 2010
Sounds like your an idiot.
rizzosbackJul 14, 2010
Sounds like you're an idiot.
rglarson13Jul 14, 2010
Sounds like you're an idiot.
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
Sounds like you're an idiot.
falconearJul 14, 2010
How can it sound like anything on a message board?
paranor01Jul 14, 2010
clickity-click-click click-clickity-click
joculatorJul 14, 2010
Every time I visit my doctor she hands me 4-5 prescriptions that I never fill. I guess she gets a kickback from the pharmaceutical company.
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
So the voices...
still there then?
covertbadgerJul 14, 2010
Perhaps if you took the medicine you wouldn't have to keep going back to the doctor over and over again?
joculatorJul 14, 2010
Like once every 2 years for a bad cold...
chijim70Jul 14, 2010
So um... wanna fill those and send em this way? I live in old people country there's a rich medication black market down here!
rizzosbackJul 14, 2010
Why is this even being taken seriously? NY Daily News?
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
Most people who've never worked/lived around NYC don't know that it's a tabloid a bare half-step above the National Enquirer. They see "NY" in the title and automatically assume that it's legit.
rizzosbackJul 14, 2010
That doesn't make sense, the Post is a rag also.
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
Most people outside of the tri-state area have never heard of either.
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
I didn't know its reputability, but the string of Bristol Palin stories alongside the article was a pretty big clue...
darklich14Jul 14, 2010
FTA: Doctors threw up their hands when they couldn’t find a reason for 14-year-old Hayley Lairmore’s agonizing stomachaches.
DOCTORS ARE VOMITING UP THEIR PHALANGES?! WE'RE ALL SCREWED!
ju66l3rJul 14, 2010
We're only screwed if they then started to wave them like they just don't care.
jestersupremeJul 14, 2010
+carpals.
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
Should have taken her to see Gregory House M.D.
kabesJul 14, 2010
Get an MRI, EKG, and test for Lupus and auto-immune.
deadpoetic333Jul 14, 2010
It's never Lupus...
nismotigerwvuJul 14, 2010
Don't you think a resting heart rate of 180 bpm would raise a red flag? I mean, I can't think of all that many conditions that include chronic pain and a constantly redlining heart rate. I'd forward that article to every doctor she had been to if I were her mother. That's the biggest issue with the last few generations of physicians, they only went down that career path for money. I have/had several friends in med school and all at some point have said the whole "why are you getting your phd in biochem, come to med school you'll make a s**t load of money" deal. When they don't actually care about the well being of others and just show up for a paycheck you get stories like this. If there's a little girl coming into your office that's an absolute train wreck, you don't stop working until she's getting better.
dreamcatcher7Jul 14, 2010
a resting HR of 180 would surely be noticed by a doc.i think she might have had episodes of tachyarrythmia rather than a baseline 180 bpm.
thelock65Jul 14, 2010
That sounds smart. dugg
kaysea112Jul 14, 2010
I totally agree!. But the worst is the type of person who enters med school thinking they'll magically become a superior person over you when they become a doctor. You know the type ...
"What's taking the waiter so long. I didn't go through 10 years of med school to wait this long!"
thenaeshJul 14, 2010
That heart rate can be due to the pain, anxiety, and dehydration from vomiting. It's a red flag, for sure, but there are much more likely causes for that heart rate than something as rare as POTS. Doctors are trained repeatedly that it's more common to have an unconventional presentation of a common disease than a conventional presentation of an uncommon disease.
People going into medicine for money usually super-specialize, trying to learn more to make more. They know that being successful in medicine means doing the job well, and making the diagnosis when it counts. Not all MDs get paid the same, and your argument supposes that people who are looking for money will be sub-par, because there's no difference in pay for being good. That is false. Your success rate has an influence in your income, both directly from insurance re-imbursements and indirectly through referrals (more patients, more complex patients for whom insurance reimburses better).
Even for this girl, a psychiatric cause is more likely than something like POTS. It would also be expected that if it was psychiatric, the mother wouldn't necessarily be aware of it.
There are some exceedingly rare diseases like this, but if doctors were trained to think of them first, many more people would be mis-diagnosed and incorrectly treated through failure of properly training the doctors.
nismotigerwvuJul 14, 2010
Of course you wouldn't diagnose someone with a rare illness as your first option. A decent physician would go through the more common conditions for a set of symptoms first and work through the list down to the rares. It seems as though these particular MD's made it to about the 3rd potential condition, saw it wasn't going to be an easy case to remedy and passed her along to someone else. That is the more upsetting fact of this case, just giving up rather making sure this little girl got proper treatment. Trust me, it takes a lot to get your heart rate over 160 or so, typically heavy exercise. The combination of stress pain and vomiting alone would be enough to greatly elevate her pulse, but normally for someone her age (and assumed average size) into the 110~120 range, perhaps 130 as an extreme but certainly not 180. I'm also mentioning her heart rate as more a sign of something seriously being wrong, not as a symptom for some rare condition.
cyclonusripJul 14, 2010
The thing is with a med degree you make a pile of money for being mediocre and a mountain of money for being good. In other fields you don't start by making a pile, but usually can still make a mountain for being good. So if you want to suck at your job and make a pile of money be a doctor.
aaronthethirdJul 14, 2010
My grandfather was a physician for 30 years and he never took a partner in his practice because, as he put it, everyone he interviewed was only concerned with how he could make his practice more profitable, and helping sick people was just the hoop they had to jump through to get to all the money. Keep in mind, my grandfather did fine, so its not like he wasn't making any money, but most of these folks who come out of Med school are just greedy bastards.
danconiaJul 14, 2010
Well a lot of those doctors are now getting sued. I personally question whether becoming a doctor for monetary reasons is a rational choice these days.
kmeganJul 14, 2010
They take your heart rate sitting. If you have POTS It's much higher when you stand up which is the definition of this symptom. The blood levels in your legs fail to constrict = tachycardia.
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
Don't be so quick to blame doctors. Taking chances on new treatments is high risk / small reward with all the ludicrous malpractice suits flying around these days, and you especially don't want to take a chance with a teenage girl. You do nothing, she dies, it was her body that killed her. You do something, she dies, it was YOU that killed her.
getisboyJul 15, 2010
Her resting heart rate was not 180. POTS (*postural*) means she only experienced severe tachycardia when standing. Since most of the time, doctors/nurses take your pulse when you're sitting or lying down, this is often missed.
blackhole82Jul 14, 2010
These stories are uplifting but also quite disturbing by pointing out how inept most of our medical profession actually is.
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
Oh anecdotal evidence. Never mind all the people that medical science actually does save each and every hour, each and every day...
blackhole82Jul 14, 2010
Well I know personally that I haven't had the most positive experience with medical doctors, and I'm not the only one. Just wait till you have a medical problem that gets shrugged over then you might feel a little differently. For every person that is helped by a doctor there could be at least 2 or 3 that come away with nothing to show for there visit. I even thought it'd be interesting to survey people that come out of typical doctor's offices to get an opinion on how helpful their visit was. I don't blame that on the science itself. It's the practitioners that are the problem. Most of them just don't seem to care and are trying to move people out just as fast as possible. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
Since we are on for anecdotal evidence in this thread, here you go -
I had major surgery at 15 for a problem that took most of my childhood to diagnose. I lived with chronic pain for a long time before diagnosed with hereditary spherocytosis and having my spleen, gallbladder and appendix removed as a result. I get what is like to have medical professionals not have a damned clue what is wrong but, if it were not for them, I would not be here. And so would a great many people.
"For every person that is helped by a doctor there could be at least 2 or 3 that come away with nothing to show for there visit" Where the hell did you pull that stat out from?
Medical science helps so many people who would otherwise die, and yet gets pinned with the blame for every person it cannot.
thekilldoctorJul 14, 2010
I have the cure that no one wants...
h0dgesJul 14, 2010
180bpm? Good god that's humming bird territory!
rglarson13Jul 14, 2010
God, I hate these sensationalism pieces.
First, if her mom is so damn smart, maybe she should go to med school and become a doctor. Yes, she may have gotten lucky this one time, but for all of the rest of everyone else doubting their doctor and turning to the Internet for their answers, they're probably wrong.
Second, so her disease is dizziness and rapid heartbeat when changing position. I'm no doctor, but it sounds to me like it's a low blood pressure thing, similar to when you stand up too quickly. You'd think a normal person would drink plenty of fluids, get a little exercise, and wait it out. Maybe stock up on some Dramamine if it persists. Oh, wait, that's what the doctor told her to do, after they figured it out. The only new information I got from this article is that it goes away in a year or two, and that it's associated with teenage girls.
Third, you can't have it both ways. Either it's rare, in which case, it's unlikely that doctors would know about it, or affects 1% of teenage girls, in which case you think we would have heard of it.
apetrieJul 14, 2010
"First, if her mom is so damn smart, maybe she should go to med school and become a doctor. Yes, she may have gotten lucky this one time, but for all of the rest of everyone else doubting their doctor and turning to the Internet for their answers, they're probably wrong."
What a f**king stupid thing to say. She didn't doubt her doctors and turn to the internet, they admitted they did not know what was happening. She didn't try to overrule them, or treat her kid or anything. All she did was locate information and a possibility and take it to the doctor. How the hell can you consider that a bad thing? I'm sure some people are hypochondriacs who invent reasons why illnesses sound like something they have that they read about on the 'net, but its stupid to condemn people trying to research and understand what is happening to them on their own especially if they are still seeing a doctor.
In the very next paragraph you attempt to diagnose this kids problem and claim what she should do. Right after saying you yourself are not a doctor. Do you now see how hypocritical and stupid that is? Also, vomiting repeatedly every single day is not something you just get a little exercise and wait out. FFS.
whythefaceJul 14, 2010
I agree that this is a sensationalist piece. But I don't think it's fair to criticize the mother for two reasons. First, many doctors won't know what something is. I, too, went through a similar experience with another autonomic disorder, where my doctors either didn't know what it was or misdiagnosed me. In my case, my disorder was/is far more prevalent than POTS, and yet many doctors still don't know what it is. Secondly, when the mother saw her daughter that sick, I'm sure she was scared as hell, and reacted the way she did because she was so terrified.
You're right that the internet isn't a substitute for going to the doctor, and that this article would make it seem that way. That's why I'm not a big fan of journalists/journalism.
rglarson13Jul 14, 2010
I'm not criticizing the mother, per se... I'm criticizing the idea that the Internet is a substitute for medical attention, and that doctors are so unreliable that the average person would be better off finding their solutions on the Internet.
specimen7Jul 14, 2010
These stories be fatal. You will have mothers thinking they can diagnose their children by reading the internet now.
propethicJul 14, 2010
At no point did she stop using doctors.
dhughesJul 14, 2010
I'm quite sure the sum of humanity's medical knowledge isn't on the Web.
glassagateJul 14, 2010
The mother didn't find the cure. She found what was causing the symptoms.
The daughter is now taking medication. If the mother found that tea leafs would
cure it, and gave her daughter tea leafs, that would be a different story.
I don't know if tea leafs would have done anything. I should have said "exhibit a".
danc256Jul 14, 2010
Gives new meaning to "Google Docs".
anothersoldierJul 15, 2010
Google is making the world obsolete!
punkrawkstarJul 15, 2010
Serious props on "Google Docs" punchline! Perfect!
joot2112Jul 14, 2010
How did the doctors not notice the heart rate issue? At every doctor I've ever been to, the visit starts with a nurse taking weight, blood pressure, pulse and temperature. ???
whythefaceJul 14, 2010
Actually, the article doesn't mention how to diagnose POTS. I have a milder case of POTS that was only discovered because I went in to a specialist facility for another autonomic disorder, hyperhidrosis (which, by the way, was misdiagnosed by several doctors from the time I was 3 years old, up until I was 20). The way they determined it for me was that I took something called a tilt table test. This test orients the patient at different angles while they are strapped to a table - I think 180, 45, and 90. My heart rate went up at different angles, and I showed other symptoms too. That's how I was diagnosed.
I'm not saying that doctors don't do their jobs, because there are so many different factors to determining a disease, but sometimes doctors help falls short. This is one of the best examples of where self determination helped this teen out, and by the sounds of it, she desperately needed it because of her severe reactions.
1hrsleepJul 14, 2010
At that point, I think you ask to be referred to a specialist and not just keep going to a GP. If I found that I had a 180BPM at any point, I'd be f**king terrified. I'd be shouting at the doctor to refer me to a cardiologist.
A coworker had a machine hooked up to her for a few days (while she went about her daily life) that monitored and recorded all sorts of things (i'm no expert) so this isn't something they can't do.
ancientdinkoJul 14, 2010
interestingly, in hospitals these days the only way you can spot a Dr is by the stethoscope he/she is wearing around the neck. It's worn more as a badge of honor than anything else because vital signs are taken or monitored using what's called a "Nurse on a stick".
theworldisflatJul 14, 2010
Doctors are, at their core, troubleshooters. They must follow the basic logical steps for diagnosing an issue. Their job is a bit harder than say an engineering or technical issue, since if someone's lips are moving...they're probably lying :)
With that being said, the ability for someone to troubleshoot varies greatly with the person. Many people can make it through medical school but lack the inherent ability to truly understand all situations and external forces that can contribute to a condition. Often times I simply consider their thought process linear... you can almost see their brain working in a straight line as they ask questions and totally miss the obvious. In this case, while the issue was not a common one, it seems that they missed some other massive red flags or conditions that would have warranted further review. Kudos to the mother for resolving the problem, however it should not be used as basis that all issues could be solved with a search engine (in my world, we call them googleadmin's or googleneers...those who don't know s**t but can surf a forum and find the answer).
I have medical personnel and doctors in my family, and I give them s**t all the time for being glorified troubleshooters :) The stories they tell about others in their field either completely missing or massively misdiagnosing issues is downright scary though.
smemilyJul 14, 2010
That and, in engineeering and other troubleshooting, you can usually sit there going "Well if I unplug this what happens? Nope, that's not the problem. Well, what if I do this?" and doctors can't just do that sort of experimenting.
ancientdinkoJul 14, 2010
"doctors can't just do that sort of experimenting"
sure they can and they do, it just takes longer to get "feedback" when dealing with medication.
and for engineers the secret to troubleshooting is knowing what to unplug and when. That comes with experience.
ancientdinkoJul 14, 2010
"doctors can't just do that sort of experimenting"
well Drs. can't swap out a suspected bad part for known working part but they can and do experiment to solve problems. It just takes longer to get "feedback" when dealing with medication.
and for engineers the secret to troubleshooting is knowing what to unplug and when. That comes with experience.
Unfortunately for
esteskidJul 14, 2010
The biggest difference between medicine and engineering is that if you kill 0.1% of the people who use your medicine it is a statistic. If you kill 0.1% of the people who use something you engineered you will be totally screwed.
n0diggityJul 14, 2010
Just unplug it and then plug it back in!
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
As a doctor, I completely agree with what you said.
We are indeed troubleshooters (at least in the diagnostic phase)
shapedyJul 15, 2010
Med school students and residents think linearly. Most doctors have figured out the human body does have an accompanying flow chart.
aarons2000Jul 14, 2010
Buried for misleading. Have some humility people. Every doctor I have met has always had their patient's interests as the TOP priority. Any decent mother wants the best for their child, but this type of thinking will only lead to worse paranoia than already exists. It's like the people who think that we shouldn't use vaccines or use western medicine when the alternative would be a total disaster.
lastdawnofmanJul 14, 2010
You're lucky. I've run into lots of doctors who very clearly could give a s**t about the patient's interests. Ego, money, and other factors are a priority for doctors like they are for other people. Not saying there aren't doctors who are like that, just there aren't enough of them who are like that.
aarons2000Jul 14, 2010
Are you sure you aren't projecting your insecurities and prejudging the doctor? There is no reason a doctor's money, ego or "other factors" would come up during patient-doctor interactions. Why did these come up during your consultation?
If you are referring to doctors outside of work, then I can see that but I'm talking about while they are working. Everyone has money, ego and other stresses in their life.
lastdawnofmanJul 14, 2010
It's true, they doctors didn't tell me "Hey, I'm doing a lame job for you right now because of my ego being disproportionate to my actual ability. Plus, all I care about are the DOLLAHS!! W00t!"
Rather, I inferred it from their behavior. And also, in a professional capacity, working alongside doctors, have heard them saying some pretty unprofessional things that lead to the same inference.
So you got me there.
rwhitisissleJul 14, 2010
I agree with LastDawnofMan. I'm related to a doctor, and I can tell you from personal experience that the only thing he's concerned with is his job, how much he gets paid, and the amount of prestige he gets. If he can get a position at a high-ranked hospital, beat out the competition and be made chief resident, that means all the more money and fame for him. He doesn't give a s**t if somebody dies on him, especially since he's such an arrogant prick that the only person he truly cares about is himself. Talk about medical ethics to the man and he'll laugh in your face.
Are all doctors like this? No. No they're not. But some, and I'm willing to bet a lot more than people are likely to believe, are. It's a highly technical, often prestige based, and extremely well paid occupation, and it attracts the kind of people that that appeals to.
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
@rwhitsissie:
I'm sorry about your relative. I think you might be a little biased because of that (but then again who knows?)
I resent your last sentence. You're surely not the first nor the last to suggest that, and for some doctors that might even be true, but trust me on this, there are FAR FAR EASIER ways of attaining prestige and currency than by going through the hell that is medical school for 6 years, only to be treated as a slave in residency for another 4-5 years... and all of that to not even be garanteed a high salary. Most people don't do it for those reasons, I'm sorry.
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
People who trust doctors absolutely are f**kin' idiots.
In my experience if you take the time to educate yourself--even through basic web reading--and are willing to challenge your "specialist" with demanding yet fair questions, you will find that at the core they know little more than what any semi-intelligent logical person does.
An experienced surgeon is a different matter but your standard GP is a retard!Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
bcsteve2Jul 14, 2010
Yeah, I bet those four years of medical school, three to seven years of residency, and possibly two years of fellowships aren't any better then twenty minutes at the University of Google. And yeah, they're all retards, I'm sure they let ANYONE into medical school.
sciencelovesyouJul 14, 2010
"but your standard GP is a retard!"
I'm just going to state that I politely disagree with your statement.
davidnivenJul 14, 2010
Remember that many doctors, scientists, and so-called experts are morons who simply had enough money to get through 8+ years of expensive universities and now have plaques on their walls and initials after their names.
Remember that the next time some Digg user tells you that you're wrong and the experts have spoken.
Case in point - the laughable, debunked theory of global warming.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
iatethecrayonJul 14, 2010
if you cant trust anyone or any facts that come from them where do you get any evidence for any arguments? what doctors or scientists do you trust for your information? This is a serious question I'm not trying to be a jerk...
davidnivenJul 14, 2010
There is nothing wrong with consulting the so-called experts. But, NEVER ever blindly trust what they say. See things for yourself. If they cannot explain something in a way that is understandable, then don't listen to them.
There is a huge difference between going to a doctor for help to deal with some problem and doing whatever he/she says without understanding any of it for yourself.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
propethicJul 14, 2010
Wow David, do you even remember any past arguments you make? If you say to never blindly trust someone I should actually do the opposite given your track record of blindly following people and ideas.
suricouJul 15, 2010
I think DavidNiven gets most of his answers from WorldNetDaily. That site which usually has ten or so stories on the front page claiming the latest proof that Obama is really a kenyan muslim communist.
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
Maybe praying to Jebus will help you David.
davidnivenJul 14, 2010
Who's Jebus?
Oh, you were making a funny. My bad.
Nice user name.
scottfarnerJul 14, 2010
I'm a doctor. I didn't come from a background that allowed me to" buy my way through" undergraduate and medical school. Last time I checked, it took hard work to get into, and through medical school. Just ask your friends who went to college that were premed to start, but ended up doing something else. It's likely that their business or marketing degree was so much more intellectually stimulating and personally rewarding than human medicine, right?
suricouJul 15, 2010
Stop, stop. You're trying to use reason against DavidNiven. That's just not going to work.
You clearly don't know him. DavidNiven is one of the more recogniseable trolls on Digg. It is his mission in life to go around finding excuses - any excuses - to attack liberals, democrats, and anyone who falls to the left of him on the political scale - which is really just about everyone.
iatethecrayonJul 14, 2010
when my father was sick none of the doctors we went to, NONE of the specialists knew what was wrong with him so my mom googled his symptoms, and told the doctors what he hadand he finally got the treatment he needed. It sucks that he was already too sick to be treated to complete wellness.
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
I'm sure that happened.
/sarcasm
iatethecrayonJul 15, 2010
Wow. f**k you man. For real. f**k you. He went f**king insane and died from the disease...you know what? Just go f**king die in a f**king fire you piece of s**t.
diggopolousJul 14, 2010
May I remind everybody here that it was a mom who discovered a way to whiten teeth with one simple trick, not
a doctor. Again it was a MOM who uncovered the secret to losing unwanted, unsightly belly fat. Yes, an M-O-M not
no M-D!. If that wasn't enough it was a MOM who stumbled upon the simple yet dramatic excercise that will relieve those wrinkles and embarrassing bags around your eyes making you look 20 years younger. Wake up people this info is all over the internet!
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
What the hell are you talking about? You sound like an infomercial.
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
hahaha.....for a second I thought you were serious. well played.
dontspamjayJul 14, 2010
Everytime I search to find out what is wrong with me it says I have cancer. Then my doctor tells me it's a stomach infection... I guess med school and years of practicing medicine > google.
telionisJul 14, 2010
A stomach infection??? Do you mean gastritis / peptic ulceration caused by H. pylori???
dontspamjayJul 14, 2010
lol... looks like someone did some googling...
actually it was likely gut flora according to my doctor. he did test for h pylori though.
telionisJul 14, 2010
Actually I had a light case of gastritis myself. I was also free from H. pylori, thankfully. Mine was caused by regularly going to sleep right after eating (surprisingly bad for you).
I've never heard of normal gut flora causing serious gastritis.
tyrexJul 14, 2010
Normal gut flora causes can cause abdominal problems. Like if you were taking antibiotics that wipe out alot of gut flora, then c. dif has a chance to grow and cause problems like pseudomembranous colitis and other abdominal pains. But im only a 4th year med student so google may be better than me :)
dontspamjayJul 15, 2010
@Telionis
For the record: I never said I had gastritis.
tyrexJul 14, 2010
Ive been working in a hospital for a while now and its crazy how much an effect google and the internet has had on people. They come in thinking they got ebola, measles, and rare cancers just because they can relate to the symptoms. Also they hear about new drugs on commercials and think they must have it and it will solve all their problems. The biggest problem with this mentality is that people are not all the same, and they are on different medications and such and can have adverse affects. The drug complications are never easily found on google, unless you have very specific searches.
The number one thing people can do is to live a healthy life, do daily exercise, and avoid bad food, drugs, alcohol. Sure there may be some bad doctors in the world, but through my experience the majority are in it to help patients out. Most are workaholics and love the challenge of having different cases. They didnt go to 10 years of post undergrad to simply make money, and if they did they certainly are retarded if they thought thats how it was. For more money and better lifestyle they would have gone to dental school, or law school. No residency bs, and get paid right after they are done.
bijaJul 14, 2010
I think people are better off if they can avoid too much of doctors and traditional medication. The best healthcare is eating right, exercise and staying cheerful. Sure, there are times you must see a doctor, but not for everything.
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
Except for, you know, preventive medicine. Yes, that thing your country is sorely lacking in and that is precisely the reason you have one of the lowest life expectancies of the developed world...
Going to the doctor /= coming out the door with a prescription.
As for the rest of your comment, sure, that's cool, until you fall ill.
I'm not even going to get into your insinuation for alternative "medicine".
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
How exactly does one eat right?, this is by far the most confusing thing to most people.
Telling someone to eat right and exercise is very vague advice and doesn't help at all.
suricouJul 15, 2010
The most important part in a typical western is to cut out the energy. Getting a good balance of protein and nutrients is important too, but the single most important part is to avoid the high-energy junk foods which lead inevitably to becoming dangerously overweight.
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=mediterranean+diet&l=1
You have no excuse now. Lol, you shouldn't have asked.
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=raw+meat+diet
You're welcome.
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
lol, are you serious?
I mean, if you want to do that, that's cool and all, but don't call it healthy.
But you know what?, since I'm an evidence man and there is no evidence for how bad (or good) this diet actually is I won't claim anything. But it doesn't seem like such a good idea.
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
I was shocked to first learn about it, but upon further research it starts to seem less of a big deal besides raw meat dishes are common in different cultures Steak tartar being the most well known in France.
check out high meat for a real shocker.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=high+meat&l=1
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
I HAVE come across this in the past. It's not that it shocks me. But there are couple of known proven medical facts that this diet goes completely against:
* Of the amount of calories we eat daily, no more than 15-20% per day should come from proteins. Or what's roughly the same, one should not eat approximately more than 1g (of proteins) per Kg of body weight per day
* Doing so DAMAGES THE KIDNEYS in the long term (which is why kidney disease is very characteristic among former body-builders)
* There's also the whole uric acid/gout problem, but granted, that only happens to those genetically inclined.
* It is widely believed (but yet unproven on a full-scale cohorts study) that rates of colon cancer are higher amongst those who have a diet low on fiber and high on red meats
* Low fiber diets aren't too great for cholesterol levels (and consequently for heart disease) either.
That's what I'm worried about. It's not that I don't believe people who do this diet feel great of whatever, it's just that you'd have to show me a lot more proof than just a few evolutionary theories on why raw meat is so good for me to switch to that kind of diet.
lastdawnofmanJul 14, 2010
Things have been getting better over the years. When I was a kid, it was a given that doctors were these great expert authorities who you never questioned, and I heard the most ridiculous stories about the suffering caused by this arrogant attitude. But there are still a lot of doctors who are very s**tty at their jobs but think that because they got that diploma everyone should just treat them like a god and never question the stupid misdiagnoses they make.
You gotta take charge of your own health. But it's true, too, that Joe Beercan can misdiagnose himself pretty good. My stepfather died of a massive case of lung cancer and to the end was absolutely sure all his problems were due to arthritis. He refused to see doctors, and spent a lot of money on arthritis books and quack arthritis cures.
I think a smart person uses the web to become better informed, but also takes what the doctor says very seriously. Use the same common-sense in dealing with doctors that you use when you have car troubles. You know there are bad mechanics who just randomly replace parts to solve a problem, and genius mechanics who can listen to the engine for 10 seconds and know precisely what's wrong with it based on their deep experience and know-how. You shouldn't keep going to a bad mechanic, or a bad doctor, and expect a good result.
gamerxJul 14, 2010
Mmmmmm, mayo clinic... *drools*
Closed AccountJul 14, 2010
if you add mustard i totally agree with you.
mizuhochanJul 14, 2010
If it's POTS, those doctors should watch House.
getisboyJul 15, 2010
POTS was briefly mentioned on one episode of House. If it was lupus, those doctors should watch House.
super6Jul 15, 2010
It's never lupus. Except the one time it was.
svettodJul 14, 2010
That is the stuff nightmares are made of. I can not imagine how the mother must have felt. Good that she took matters into her own hands and got things done.
stuffradioJul 14, 2010
The real question everyone should be asking is, why didn't she go to House!?
asus3000Jul 25, 2010
No, what I want to know is why they took her to Disney World, when she lives in California.
unfatherJul 14, 2010
*slow clap, faster, then standing ovation*
diggadiggaJul 14, 2010
What health insurance did she have. How did she get seen by the Mayo Clinic?
blackhole82Jul 14, 2010
It probably wasn't covered by insurance.
werfwerJul 14, 2010
maybe the doctors miss stuff because they are flooded with people asking if "prilosec might be right for me" because of the 15 commercials we see a day.
briggykinsJul 14, 2010
Is this the same Mom that discovered the cheap, easy and amazing tooth whitening solution I'm always seeing around the net?
shayan2703Jul 14, 2010
I hate the janitor
heavystoneJul 14, 2010
"We would watch movie after movie, and she was in excruciating pain. She would cry, ‘Mommy, you have to help me, please help me,’ but no one could help."
Wow, must of been watching Twilight or something....
thekohJul 14, 2010
She's the girl's mother... if the doctor's had 24/7 monitoring abilities, I'm sure they would have figured it out as well.
probergeJul 14, 2010
People put too much faith in doctors. They are humans, take some responsibility for your own health.
yondJul 14, 2010
I'd like to see a collective stepping down of doctors from the golden pedestal. Doctors should realize that all their experience and knowledge is only 50% of every relation they have with the people that come to them for help. The other 50% is what the patient thinks and has researched. The patient actually has the body that is trying to be treated, and their insights should be treated as equal to that of the doctors. One thing I would like to see is feedback from every person treated. Greater use of websites or databases like ratemydoctor etc. I want to see the result statistics widespread and standardized as much as possible. If you were wrong about a patient I want to know that to see your accuracy ratio. Knowing the results I think would give patients a greater chance in balancing the doctor knowledge vs patient insight dynamic to the 50-50 it should be.
Medicine isn't easy. So many symptoms of so many conditions look alike. Nausea, dizziness? It could be a gazillion different things. Doctor and patient should troubleshoot together with a strong presumption that neither of them knows what is happening and that the illness could literally be anything.
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
*Citation needed (on that "ideal" 50-50 something you proclaim).
Bah it't too late to write a long-winded counter-argument, but riddle me this: If the patient's insights are equal to that of the doctors, why don't 2 patients get together to diagnose eachother and forgo the whole doctor nuisance alltogether?
yondJul 15, 2010
Citation needed? Did you read the article? You know the one this comment forum is about?
Start there, then after you've read it we can continue. Or are you just a dig troll, making comments without actually reading the articles that the comments are about.
Once you finish reading the article you will find many of your questions about my opinion answered. And you will understand a little bit better how I could think such a thing. Then after you've read the article demonstrated your understanding of how it is related to my comment, I will know you are serious, then I will add an example from my personal life. But to get there you have to read the article. Why do I keep suggesting reading the article? Because if you had read the article you would not have asked the questions you did especially the one about the citation, because the article in itself is one example of what you were asking for and what I was walking about and it is what most of us here are talking about.
If you don't understand what this article is about, then I will be happy to help you with that, but you will have to let me know what about the article you don't understand.
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
I had indeed read the article. Nowhere does it say anything about the "ideal 50-50" balance or whatever you were rambling about. Not that it would have mattered a lot. Even if the woman in the article HAD said anything resembling that I would still think it stupid, wrong and absolutely unfounded.
That is why I asked for a citation. I think it is such an absolutely stupid statement to make that I NEEDED to know the source of it. But it seems you just pulled it out of your ass, so there's my answer. I just hope you never get to be in charge of the life of another human being, and I pity the doctor that will have to deal with a mentality like yours.
If you want you can still answer the questions I posed, but it's not really necessary. Suddenly my interest for this went to 0.
yondJul 15, 2010
So how did the mom diagnose something that many doctors could not?
How is it possible that something like that can happen?
What did she do?
These are some of the first questions you should asking yourself.
How is it that the mother's insight and research led to her daughter's recovery?
Lets see if you understand the article.
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
I answered that in another post so I'll just link you to it.
http://digg.com/health/When_doctors_fail_you_Teen_s_mom_finds_cure_for_daughter?t=33808513#c33825370 (as well as my other reply below it)
But if you REALLY want to know why I consider it not such a good idea for a patient to feel he knows as much as the doctor (apart from, you know, the simple fact that he DOESN'T and that would qualify as arrogance, and arrogance is never good), take a look at this one
http://digg.com/health/When_doctors_fail_you_Teen_s_mom_finds_cure_for_daughter?t=33808513#c33824980
yondJul 15, 2010
I took a look at your responses and they actually don't seem to answer the basic questions I just asked you. Did you read the article?
So how did the mom diagnose something that many doctors could not?
How is it possible that something like that can happen?
What did she do?
Were the doctors correct in their diagnosis?
What key even led to the correct diagnosis of the daughter.
Is it possible that doctors can be wrong?
How is it that the mother's insight and research led to her daughter's recovery?
But if you REALLY want to know why I consider it not such a good idea for a patient to feel he knows as much as the doctor (apart from, you know, the simple fact that he DOESN'T and that would qualify as arrogance, and arrogance is never good), take a look at this one
Ah but if you READ and UNDERSTAND my idea, you will notice that I do NOT as you put it "[think] it not such a good idea for a patient to feel he knows as much as the doctor"
So why would you want to link that when I am not saying that at all.
One idea i am suggesting is that doctor KNOWLEDGE and EXPERIENCE should respect patient (or party to the patient's) INSIGHT and RESEARCH, since the patient actually has the BODY. One thing I am saying is that they are equally important enough for doctor-patient attempts at problem solving to be more COLLABORATIVE than they could be. That means doctors should listen to their patients more.
I think you got thrown off by using numbers to describe a word in my original post because you thought those were statistics from someplace while they were actually a way of trying to describe a concept. But if you read what I said without thinking, indeed that is easy to do. In fact if you read anything anyone says without thinking, anything has the potential of not making sense to you. I think its fair to say you don't understand what I mean.
But that's okay we are all human here and we've all been in that boat and I don't disrespect you for being human like the rest of us.
telionisJul 14, 2010
They really didn't notice the 180 bpm tachycardia? Seriously? Every doctor I have ever gone to has taken my blood pressure and heart rate. Every one of them. Are you telling me she went to several different doctors and nobody took her pulse? Or that they did take her pulse and nobody noticed that 180 bpm is a bit unusual, and near the physiological maximum safe rate for an Olympic class athlete? Seriously?
Once they noticed the tachycardia, there are only a few things that fit the symptoms, and the answer is on Wikipedia. Seriously, how incompetent could these guys be? It'd be like a mechanic not figuring out why your car doesn't run, while simultaneously failing to notice that the engine is on fire.
Closed AccountJul 15, 2010
Olympic class athletes have much lower heart rates relative to a normal person at the same activity level. The last time I had a health class, I ran a mile in about 6 minutes and my heart rate 1 minute later was 170.