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michaelabehseraAug 10, 2010
Well that's goverment regs for you. Soon there will be no performance cars on sale anywhere.
fahrvergnuugenAug 11, 2010
I can't wait to hear Clarkson's reaction to this!
GuyOnTheNetAug 11, 2010
If Democrats had their way you would be not allowed to own a "personal" automobile. You would ride with your fellow community members on the public transport system that doesn't actually take you to your destination.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
elcadAug 11, 2010
That's OK since once the Republicans are in charge again, they will stop funding for the socialist road system and there won't be any place to drive anyway.
therealricoAug 11, 2010
Hey troll read the article before you comment, has nothing to do with cars in the US!
robertventuriAug 11, 2010
I can't believe that there are still people who consider public transit to be connected with an ideology. It's just common sense from an urban planning perspective. You'd never choose to drive if the government system didn't provide the infrastructure and promote low density communities.
davidjunitAug 11, 2010
Well, it happened in the 70's and 80's and we recovered in the 90's so I suppose the cycle begins again.
clippclopAug 11, 2010
How is the civic type r at all a performance car?
curiousnightowlAug 10, 2010
New regulations are killing off fun cars.
magnetomsAug 10, 2010
Shame to see such a great car go.
aobaidAug 10, 2010
Such a waste .. who needs regulations anyway!
leftamiAug 11, 2010
BP??
ajajadudeAug 11, 2010
Banks, Wall Street, loan companies, health insurance companies, etc etc etc
deafbeatAug 10, 2010
This is crap, i love civic so much :(
usq1111Aug 10, 2010
The hell with EuroV regulations, I love Honda
absolutelytrueAug 10, 2010
Send them to the US!
elcadAug 11, 2010
It's only canceled in the UK.
Closed AccountAug 11, 2010
The Type R's are not in the US... at all.
spinky342Aug 11, 2010
Or Canada, don't forget about Canada.
bccartmanAug 11, 2010
I owned a 2000 Civic SiR and a 2004 Civic SiR and was rather dissapointed that the new one (Type R) did not come to North America, I hope that they decide to bring it over to bolster its sales.
echootaAug 11, 2010
Pssh, it's no R-9.
Closed AccountAug 11, 2010
Honda is using that as an excuse to kill off the car (it's well underpowered compared to it's competitors and probably doesn't sell well), It's been nothing but misfires from Honda for the last 10 years, sad to see that from a company that was once a world class leader in innovation and engineering. All the other euro hot hatches are going to meet the new spec.
Closed AccountAug 11, 2010
For real. The NSX was a masterpiece. Honda hasn't really done much since then. I mean the S2000 got the same or worse MPG than a f**king Corvette for crying out loud.
brownsoundAug 11, 2010
I'd rather have an S2000 over a Corvette. The S2000 is a true driver's car; it is mechanically magnificent in every way; it can go all day at the track and still be exhilarating to drive to work the next day! 9000 RPM's and 6 (very close) gears provide for driving nirvana direct to the rears.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
arozAug 11, 2010
^ Brownsound, the Corvette is more of a driver's car. It gets quite good mileage and it has more power available at lower RPMs. Naturally, it'll smoke the S2000 on the track as well.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
brownsoundAug 11, 2010
Actually you are quite wrong. I've personally beaten 3 different Corvette's and their drivers at my local autocross event in my s2000.
I prefer the s2000 due to it's all-aluminum DOHC engine, 50/50 weight distribution, over-square bore:stroke ratio w/ forged pistons, 11.1:1 compression ratio, 500 lb weight advantage, 4-wheel double wishbone suspension (as opposed to leaf springs), torsional LSD, 9000 rpm red line, the best shifting manual 6-speed transmission in the world, with gears ratio's much, MUCH shorter than the Corvette for increased torque multiplication at all RPMs, and more aggressive toe/camber settings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyOV3SSRevMComment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountAug 11, 2010
The short gears are necessary due to the S2000 having the torque curve of a 4 cylinder Accord below 6k rpm. It's not an advantage, it is necessary for a gutless high-revving engine. The vette doesn't need super-short gears because it has a fat torque curve.
brownsoundAug 11, 2010
The short gears are necessary? Like saying it's necessary for the Corvette to have a gigantic motor with lots of torque because it's a heavy monstrosity, so obviously thats a disadvantage.. /s
Engineers make very deliberate design choices when building sports cars, the S2000 has razor sharp focus; when you take it on the track you realize it was intended for one purpose: driving balls to the wall on a track.. not on the street or the drag strip or into grandpa's garage with the bow tie poster.
Diggers may disagree but you're in over your head if you want to challenge an ME who's involved in several types of technical racing on the mechanical merits of a real sports car.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
brownsoundAug 11, 2010
Just for the hell of it, if anyone actually comes back to read this, here's one of my very first autocross runs in my old S2000 (two years ago). It's a horrible, horrible example of a noob driver not looking ahead, not being smooth, and reacting late. I put it on youtube because I came reallly close to spinning out @ 1:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXBL2KPhQIo
Closed AccountAug 11, 2010
You are quite misinformed if you believe that the GM aluminum smallblocks are large or heavy.
thegurustudAug 12, 2010
I hate GM and vettes, but steven is spot on. S2000s have great handling, but that's where their fun and performance ends.
brownsoundAug 12, 2010
"it's necessary for the Corvette to have a gigantic motor [...] because it's a heavy monstrosity".
The analogy is
Gutless engine -> necessitates -> short gears
Heavy car -> necessitates -> large displacement motor
Both are torque multipliers with the end-result being faster acceleration; each has additional attributes and variables to consider for each application. I'm saying your declaration of one simply being a disadvantage is a short-sighted retort disregarding the science of motorsports.
brownsoundAug 12, 2010
@ TheGuruStud really? you just called me a dimwit? I must be getting trolled.
What you've basically just done is give me one half of a basic axiom of racing. Given any combination of power band, redline, and track layout as variables, gears too short will make you slower for precisely the reason you mentioned, and gears too long will make you slower because at any given speed a) your gear ratio produces less torque and therefore effective power (and therefore acceleration), and b) the longer gears are (duh) longer so your power band is spread over a larger area of speeds.
The key in this lesson is obviously to find the best gear ratios for each application. The S2000's ratios are perfect on the track, although it's the fault of the shifter mechanism that it has one of the shortest and most precise throws on the planet. The S2000's gear ratios are NOT compromised for daily driving or fuel efficiency, unlike the Corvette. The Corvette has a ridiculous 6th gear gap for highway cruising, although in the interest of integrity, this compromise blends naturally given it's engine's high-torque output.
The rest of your post reads to me like a tea-partier explaining whats wrong with the tax code. Never the less, the S2000 was the last "real sports car" Honda made; although it is not in production anymore.
Jesus. f**king. Christ. Did you just say if the S2000 had a V6 your "outlook" would change whether its a sports car? I shouldn't even respond to this.
QUIZ TIME: What do the Ferrari 348, Lamborghini Miura V12, and Lotus Esprit Turbo all have in common?
If you guessed they're all older exotic sports cars that run 14's then you are correct!
Calling you a moron would be an insult to morons.
brownsoundAug 12, 2010
And just to REALLY put the cherry on top, here's the results of that autocross event I posted a video of earlier:
http://wedrivefast.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=B7dg9S5hH0Y%3d&tabid=80&mid=400
5 S2000's and an '01 & '03 Corvette Z06. All 5 naturally aspirated 4-banger S2000's beat both supercharged V8 Covettes (And look! So did an RX-8 :] )
arozAug 12, 2010
I found this comment of yours rather interesting, Brownsound.
"Engineers make very deliberate design choices when building sports cars, the S2000 has razor sharp focus; when you take it on the track you realize it was intended for one purpose: driving balls to the wall on a track.. not on the street or the drag strip or into grandpa's garage with the bow tie poster.
Diggers may disagree but you're in over your head if you want to challenge an ME who's involved in several types of technical racing on the mechanical merits of a real sports car."
Well there you go. You just said it's best suited to the track. But the Corvette works quite well on the track and in normal driving.
brownsoundAug 12, 2010
I give up, you guys win. This thread is what the nightmares of engineers are made of.
Closed AccountAug 11, 2010
"it's well underpowered compared to it's competitors and probably doesn't sell well"
What competitors (as in car model and price?) If you actually read the article, they are not selling it due to the cost or making changes to the car to fit with the emission standards. They could be waiting till 2011, who knows?
And, if you don't think previous models sold well why not look up the figures to back up your position?
Speculation is fine and all but at the end of the day, it's still speculation.
cpmartinAug 11, 2010
Tree huggin' beatniks!
cmeza83Aug 11, 2010
Good. I'm glad to see some governments out there have the guts to stand up to industry and make them more enviro friendly. I wish we could do the same here. There's no need for a soccer mom to be driving a Hummer.
If Honda really cared about its consumers/fan base, they would make the car compliant even though it doesn't make a "strong business case." I'm not saying do it at a loss, but at making a couple million than they would otherwise make =)
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
notadiggtardAug 11, 2010
It's not your or the governments place to judge what some soccer mom,or I need.It's called freedom.Get acquainted with it before it's all gone.
basmasta7Aug 11, 2010
Actually it is. People can do what they want provided it doesn't adversely affect the general public. Polluting the environment adversely affects everybody. It's just easy to ignore since it takes a while I'm sure people whined in the 70's when the gas crisis and new emissions regulations forced horsepower way down, and we dealt with it. We now have 400hp cars that get nearly 30 mpg. I'm sure the Civic Type R is an awesome car, and I've always been disappointed that it was never brought to the US, but I'm sure there will be another, cleaner, faster version out before you know it.
shazoocowAug 11, 2010
It's actually called the tragedy of the commons. Get acquainted with it before all that's left of the human race is a scrap heap of rusted-out SUVs that never went off road and a brown stain.
smacksawAug 11, 2010
This is no big loss, really. They're going to replace it anyway. Why spend money updating something for the short-term? Put the money into making the next Civic better and offer a new high performance engine in it that you can sell for the next few years.
sh4rkb1t3Aug 11, 2010
This is bulls**t. Until China stops putting up 3 new coal factors per week, I'm never going to give up my performance vehicle.
xompAug 11, 2010
198hp high rpm racing vtec engine
elmuerte17Aug 11, 2010
BIG POWER
grolschAug 11, 2010
Although I make fun of typical fartcan Hondas, the Type-R is a very nice sport compact
dmarquardAug 11, 2010
Although*
neutron7Aug 11, 2010
No shortage of other schoolboy racers for them kill themselves and other people in.
visionviperAug 11, 2010
I find it hilarious that all of these emissions regulations end up targeting cars that make up a minority of the market (like performance cars) and not the cars that most people drive.
elmuerte17Aug 11, 2010
It's really sad. I'm a member of a Camaro/Firebird enthusiasts club, I hear all the time about folks in California getting totally screwed by inane regulations. Prime example is not being allowed to swap an original carbureted engine to a bigger, more powerful computer controlled fuel-injected one that'll get 10mpg better mileage and spit less raw fuel out the tailpipe under throttle... only because the displacement is larger than the factory offering. Another common case is failing an emissions test because the original equipment was tampered with, regardless of how much cleaner the exhaust actually is. I know the article is referring to Europe, but it really is same s**t, different pile, as the story in the States.
/coolstorybro
arozAug 11, 2010
You don't have to end your quality examples with /coolstorybro.
arozAug 11, 2010
Don't worry. There are plenty of innovations to exploit for cleaner performance cars.
GuyOnTheNetAug 13, 2010
You're right, if there was no infrastructure I wouldn't drive my car. I would sell it and just ride my ATV everywhere.