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Closed AccountFeb 18, 2011
nice
frieddonutsFeb 19, 2011
What a profound comment! Thanks for your informed analysis of the issue!
steevejgilbertDec 5, 2011
well said!! :)
breakspiritFeb 18, 2011
never heard of this band, but this is a really cool story that makes me like them.
robiczFeb 18, 2011
LCD Soundsystem: thumbs up!! check them out
iboxFeb 18, 2011
Whats the point, they already quit.
jonprophetFeb 18, 2011
I lol'd.
elcheeserpuffFeb 19, 2011
Yeah, because listening to the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, or Queen is just a waste of time because they "already quit," right? =D
crodulfoFeb 19, 2011
amazing!
jonnyeuchreFeb 19, 2011
Actually, it's sh@t. I'm one of the fans who was 'lucky' enough to buy tickets for the last show ever at MSG, only to find out now that I'm not one of the 'real' fans because I have enough $$ to buy the MSG show. They're going to be so bagged after their 5 shows leading up to it, it's going to be crap now. Not to mention, the MSG fans aren't their real fans, apparently because they speak to scalpers.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
barbo2003Feb 19, 2011
i think you missed the point. Good for you that you were fortunate enough to be a fan that got a ticket for regular price. The problem is that the band wanted to give all of their fans a goodbye show and not just the ones that can pay stupid amounts for tickets.
kploFeb 18, 2011
Taking down scalpers, supply-and-demand style...
diggsmckenzieFeb 19, 2011
Like some kind of economics based superhero.
cyberdactylFeb 18, 2011
Awesome.
The monetary loss to the scalpers will me crippling. They'll be crying tears of sorrow in the parking lots!
LOL
Closed AccountFeb 19, 2011
The parking lot of Madison Square Garden?
illinestFeb 18, 2011
capitalism was both the cause and the solution.
gdj11Feb 18, 2011
which means capitalism was never the problem to begin with.
bs0lFeb 19, 2011
having a solution doesn't mean there was never a problem. at all.
elcheeserpuffFeb 19, 2011
Sure it does. 1+1=2. 1+1 is the problem and 2 is the solut-... ohhhhh.
crashsuitFeb 18, 2011
If not for your 20th century garbage-making skills, we'd all be buried under 20th century garbage
Closed AccountFeb 18, 2011
this happened with tosh tickets at the upcoming pittsburgh show and they are asking 3plus times face value. f**king scumbags
gdj11Feb 18, 2011
if you want to see tosh just go to the gay bars
FPSmotoFeb 18, 2011
or just wait till it comes on tv. OOHH wait go back! American Pickers is on! f**k tosh.0.
Closed AccountFeb 19, 2011
WAit..you are mocking someone else's choice of shows in defense of Tosh
BruxismcuredFeb 18, 2011
That's great!
dotAlexXFeb 18, 2011
Should have just thrown a free show that way scalper tickets would have been worth nothing and they would have made their money off them.
elcheeserpuffFeb 19, 2011
That would actually be a completely reasonable plan. And it would make them go down in music history. I may just be ignorant, but I don't know many big bands that have just performed free shows.
Closed AccountFeb 19, 2011
Free show where? Can't do it at a larger venue, unless they planned on paying a lot of money out of their own pocket. Even a smaller show will cost them some money.
And how would you determine who gets in? Sure as hell are not going to just open the doors and let people rush in with no tickets required. (For one thing, it is illegal to have all festival seating that even with $$ tickets. People die in the stampede.) So, you are going to have to have SOME kind of ticket process...which will just be snatched up by scalpers (for free) and still sold to the higest bidders.
And regardless...as long as they play that concert at MSG (which they have to) those tickets will still get sold at a profit to someone.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
canyoucountFeb 18, 2011
Um, what? It's "pro-fan" to try to prevent a secondary market in tickets to his concert? Oooook. I guess his fans who were unlucky enough to not hear about the show in time shouldn't be able to buy a ticket on craigslist and go, even if there is another person who can't make it?
Oh, right, right, it's not about him trying to control his fans, it's about.. um.. scalpers! The problem isn't the fans who would pay scalpers what they feel the ticket is worth, it's um.. scalpers! For reselling something when it becomes clear it has greater value than they paid for it. Because, you know, a "fan" would never turn into a "scalper" if people started a bidding war for his ticket. I guess James Murphy never took econ 101, or believes his wealth is more decently earned than those who profit via arbitrage?
Musicians who think they have control over their art product after they release it to the public are even bigger ego-maniacs than other musicians. Bizarre to see him getting props for this.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
torrangeFeb 18, 2011
did you read the article - the scalpers buy all the tickets as soon as they go on sale, not giving the fans a chance to purchase at face value. The scalpers then turn around and sell back to the fans that may have waited three minutes after tickets went on sale.
The same thing happened to me recently - tickets went on sale at 10:00am, I clicked to purchase the second the tickets were available. My seats were not the best, I got pushed to the side of the arena in less than a second. A second show was added and the scalpers were desperate, selling $250.00 tickets for $50.00.
canyoucountFeb 18, 2011
I read the article, and I question the premise. If I am a fan and I buy the limit on tickets (usually something like 4 per credit card) and I resell two of them for more than face value, am I a "scalper"? Is there some identifying mark, or line where a person who buys something and resells it becomes a "scalper"? Is all arbitrage immoral, or only ticket arbitrage?
I have seen people, including LCD Soundsystem Guy, suggesting that because there are "fans" who didn't get tickets and other people are selling their now-more-valuable tickets for a profit, that "scalpers" somehow monopolized ticket sales. I say [citation needed], because otherwise it seems like people do not understand basic economics.
When demand exceeds supply, the price increases.
Hilariously, that's why LCD Soundsystem Guy responded by.. increasing supply. His little hissy fit may yet teach him Econ 101.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
invadercthulhuFeb 19, 2011
What a retard
bs0lFeb 19, 2011
Enlightening.
alcoholicasFeb 19, 2011
There's a reason why 27 states prohibit ticket scalping to some degree. It's unethical. The scalpers are not providing a service. They're inserting themselves between the primary ticket sellers and the customers for no other reason than making a profit. And guess what? They're making a profit off the backs of people who should have been able to conclude the purchase themselves; again, they're not providing a service. They're not connecting customers with a service they wouldn't otherwise have had access to (HINT: an ethical form of arbitrage). They're just taking advantage of somebody who was a little slow on the draw when it came to purchasing a ticket through an online system that was unable to handle the traffic. It's UNETHICAL.
I mean, Christ. At the risk of sounding like I'm painting with a broad brush here, your entire attitude is a contributing factor in why a lot of decent, hard-working people think the free market is filled with parasitic scumbags. Did you ever stop to consider the monetary damage ticket scalpers inflict? And I mean, the damage scalping incurs doesn't even stop there. Purchasing tickets to sell them at 3x the face value places them out of the reach for quite a few people. It's EVIL. Holy s**t. Scalpers are like ticks.
And yes, by the way. Adding additional dates so that additional fans can attend a farewell event is, indeed, "pro-fan." I'm a little stunned (but not totally surprised) that you would even think to question this. More fans will be able to attend the concerts, won't have to sell blood for a month to afford tickets = pro-fan. Shocking, I know.
Also, not at all surprised that somebody spewing your brand of poisonous rhetoric is unable to distinguish between "immoral" and "unethical."
canyoucountFeb 20, 2011
You seem confident that you know me pretty well for someone who has read two of my comments on Digg.
On the other hand, you have not actually engaged with my argument and your argument is riddled with problems I have already raised. I'll address these points again, for your benefit.
"There's a reason why 27 states prohibit ticket scalping to some degree."
Appeal to authority. Yawn. Many states prohibited interracial marriage and we were not impressed by appeals to those laws.
"It's unethical. "
What is "it" in this sentence? "Scalping," I guess. What's "scalping"? It seems to be defined as reselling a ticket with any markup. Why are event tickets the only good not subject to a secondary market based on demand? I don't grasp the premise. Why are concert tickets a unique good that cannot be resold? What about them puts them in that category?
"The scalpers are not providing a service. "
This is easily disprovable via a hypothetical which I have already mentioned in this thread. Lets say that I am a LCD Soundsystem fan and did not find out about the show until after everyone else did. If my friend has a ticket and he really wants to go, but I'm a bigger fan of LCD Soundsystem then he is, there is a difference in how much we want to go, which can be measured in price. If there were no value provided by the access to otherwise unavailable tickets, no one would pay for it.
The fact that I did not find out about the show until the tickets were not available at retail does not actually say anything about whether I "deserve" them or not in the squishy way that "fans" "deserve" these tickets at some arbitrary price. If, instead of this person being my friend, this person is a "scalper," it seems that suddenly the service they provide (access to an otherwise unavailable good) is considered immoral. But only for event tickets!
I can see why you feel the fan loses in the case where some tickets go unsold, because you believe that they "could" have bought the ticket if the secondary market in goods magically didn't exist, unlike how it exists for every other good. From what I can tell, the people who really lose if a scalper hoards tickets and no one buys them because they are priced too high are.. the venue. Because the venue makes their money by having a packed house of people buying overpriced alcohol. It is probably not surprising that the venues are the ones most opposed to ticket "scalping". Do you or LCD Soundsystem have any evidence that this kind of underfilling happens in a meaningful percentage of cases, or this one in specific?
"They're just taking advantage of somebody who was a little slow on the draw when it came to purchasing a ticket through an online system that was unable to handle the traffic."
The value here is available to those who are not "slow on the draw." I have seen no citation whatsoever, from LCD Soundsystem or you or anyone else, regarding the system being "unable to handle the traffic." All I have heard is the usual conjecture that if supply exceeds demand, it is because of shadowy "manipulators" of value. Citation needed.
"It's UNETHICAL."
I wasn't convinced the first time you said this, but now that you've put it in ALL CAPS, I'm all turned around on the subject.
"At the risk of sounding like I'm painting with a broad brush here, your entire attitude is a contributing factor in why a lot of decent, hard-working people think the free market is filled with parasitic scumbags. Did you ever stop to consider the monetary damage ticket scalpers inflict?"
The "monetary damage" that scalpers "inflict" could be trivially avoided if ticket prices were scaled with the demand for same. There would be no opportunity whatsoever for them to engage in arbitrage, and earn all the money they might earn that way. However this was infeasible in the past due to paper ticket sales, and people don't like the idea of people paying different prices for things, so we continue to resist this solution.
Instead of acknowledging that, like for every other good or service, there will always be a secondary market and building that into OUR price model, we prefer to criminalize normal market behavior. It gives us a chance to moralize and to imagine shadowy enemies who are responsible when we, for example, don't get the concert tickets we want. For the.. win?
"Purchasing tickets to sell them at 3x the face value places them out of the reach for quite a few people. "
Is there some ethical reason why people have a right to have access to any particular good at any particular price?
"Adding additional dates so that additional fans can attend a farewell event is, indeed, "pro-fan.""
Yes, it certainly is "pro-fan" to INCREASE SUPPLY when DEMAND drives up PRICES.. however it just proves that the scalpers (if they exist!) take on unknowable risk when they spend their capital. Getting more than your initial investment in things, due to shouldering risk, is how capitalism works. Perhaps if James Murphy wants to avoid being a craven capitalist he should stop charging people more for his CDs than it costs to make them. Cost the limit of price!
Telling people who have purchased a good that they are necessarily unethical if they resell it at a profit when market conditions change does not seem to be respectful to me. Imagining, without any discernable proof, that the natural action of the marketplace is, rather, shadowy SCALPERS does not seem like a reasonable perspective on the behavior of humans. YMMV, and clearly does.
"More fans will be able to attend the concerts, won't have to sell blood for a month to afford tickets = pro-fan."
Sell blood? Concert tickets are now an essential good such that one would sell blood to be able to afford them? Ooook.
"Also, not at all surprised that somebody spewing your brand of poisonous rhetoric is unable to distinguish between "immoral" and "unethical.""
Your inability to understand my argument (or basic economics) does not decrease my understanding of morals and ethics. Cheers.
petepsFeb 19, 2011
Really? The scalpers buy "all the tickets"? And do what with them - not sell them? There are nowhere near 15,000 tickets on the secondary market for this event.
Does it suck when scalpers buy up tickets that would otherwise go to fans at the moment of the onsale? Yes. But the tickets the scalpers buy will still go to fans. Tickets are worth what people are willing to pay for them. For every show with high demand there are 10 shows with low demand. You might have to pay extra to go see LCD Soundsystem at Madison Square Garden. But you can go see Robert Plant, Miranda Cosgrove, Garth Brooks, BB King, and Trans Siberian Orchestra for 1/2 face value. Why? Because that is what the tickets are worth.
I agree with canyoucount - where is the line drawn? Am I unethical because I buy four tickets when I only need two? The two extra tickets I buy lower the actual cost of the tickets I will use.
What LCD Soundsystem did was great - they kept adding shows to lower to real value of the tickets. Garth Brooks did the same thing with his recent shows in Nashville. He kept adding shows until they stopped selling. I don't think LCD should be so impressed with themselves for outsmarting the system or anything but still, good for them. If bands want to ensure that every single fan gets to see them they need to play more shows. They need to understand economics.
torrange - as far as you not getting great tickets at exactly 10am, there are some things you should realize: Not only did you click to purchase at exactly 10am but so did thousands of other people. In almost all cases only a small percentage of tickets are put on sale during the initial on sale. Of those tickets only a small percentage are good seats. Most of what goes on sale initially are some of the worst seats. This way the promoter has more of a guarantee of selling the crummy seats, as people think that is all that is left. From the time of the initial onsale right up until showtime Ticketmaster will continue to release tickets each day. You not getting great seats does not mean anything with regards to scalpers. Protip: don't buy the first set of seats you get. Wait two minutes for all the tickets to fall out of the shopping carts that people aren't buying. You'll get better seats.
FPSmotoFeb 18, 2011
They had other shows which means those fans who were GOING to pay out the ass by buying from a scalper now get a really good deal on a ticket for the other show dates so they can enjoy the show just as much.
ryanwbFeb 18, 2011
How are they "controlling his fans", it's about making their product available to fans. Scalping is a dirty business and has immediate turnover to the secondary market. I was standing in line for tickets once and this old man lined up a bunch of homeless guys and had them all buy their lot. He gave them like a bottle of MD40 or something for their trouble and sent them on their merry way. It's not only cheating the system, it's cheating the fans by requiring them to turn to the aftermarket sales.
imfreeofdebtFeb 18, 2011
i hate this band
elcheeserpuffFeb 19, 2011
Trolololololololol
servisiFeb 18, 2011
I disagree with that kind of respect it should be standard procedure
indubala017Feb 18, 2011
Really awesome !
Closed AccountFeb 18, 2011
That is a unique way to curb that issue. Not really a fan of these guys but I am a fan of musicians honoring their years long fans in this way. Scalpers are assh**es
camaroz06Feb 18, 2011
Wont scalpers just buy up the other tickets as well inflate the prices just not as much? I guess with 5 shows though thats a lot of tickets available.
calgaryjayFeb 18, 2011
Just glad they packed it in. That noise they make sucks!
crackerjack20Feb 19, 2011
So the band sold out an entire venue due to scalpers. Then they offer 5 more shows. More scalpers will probably buy some, plus the original fans who got shafted the first time will be able to buy the tickets. So overall, the band is going to make 2 or 3 times more money this way, while under the disguise that they're "sticking it to the scalpers".
bs0lFeb 19, 2011
win-win-win?
Scalpers-fans-band. Optimal solution if you ask me.
elcheeserpuffFeb 19, 2011
This is fantastic. All the conspiracy theories about this being planned are annoying as hell though.
Closed AccountFeb 19, 2011
Annoying? OR quite compelling? the fact that Avenue 5 just happened to have those 5 dates open when htey RARELY have that many dates open in a row is a pretty f**king strong case for it being a set up.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
elcheeserpuffFeb 19, 2011
Truth time; You have never heard of Avenue 5 before reading someone's conspiracy theory saying that they're always packed and that they just "conveniently" had 5 shows up. You know how I know? Because there is no such thing as Avenue 5.
The venue LCD Soundsystem is playing is called Terminal 5. You are not familiar with how often this place has gigs, you just read some conspiracy theorist and thought it was a fun idea to agree with. The truth of the matter is that Terminal 5 is not constantly packed, for instance 3 out of 4 weeks in March have 5 days where no gigs are scheduled.
I believe this is a genuine attempt to fix a mistake of allowing scalpers to scoop up the majority of tickets. Believing otherwise goes against clear evidence and is just plain cynical.
mixxoFeb 19, 2011
Terminal 5 is awful, not surprised that they would have a block of dates open. The place is the old club "Exit" and is much more suited for dance then live shows in my opinion. Soundwise it seems to fall short for most bands I have seen there.
Not a big fan of LCD but props to them, even if they end up making more money in the end, more fans will get to see them.
lcdiraisystemFeb 19, 2011
i guess i should leave a comment in here. Go them.
Closed AccountFeb 19, 2011
How does it hand the scalpers out to dry? It isn't like they aren't going to sell all those tickets....at a profit anyway. Maybe not as much as a profit as expected, but hardly being hung out to dry.
melektawusFeb 19, 2011
Why would a person buy a ticket from a scalper when they can buy tickets legitimately at the same or lesser price, ESPECIALLY after the band has explained how the scalpers were ripping off the fans? This band is not popular enough to sell out Madison Square Garden five times over, they know that, and they know that most of the tickets will go unsold. The only way a scalper is going to be able to recoup any of their investment will be to sell the tickets at less than face value. Trust me, this has cost ticket scalpers a LOT of money.
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centraltransFeb 19, 2011
very cool. you don't see a band that is truly interested in their fans anymore.
laurahoustonFeb 19, 2011
I don't think they "got crafty"..those venues like madison square garden- are reserved far in advance.
Once one concert sells out, they intend to release other shows. All concerts do this and yes that holds down scalper prices and helps general ticket sales.
Now if he gave free concert tickets to real fans of the band..then LCD could make a more honest public statement.
jakerzFeb 19, 2011
How does it hand the scalpers out to dry? It isn't like they aren't going to sell all those tickets....at a profit anyway. Maybe not as much as a profit as expected, but hardly being hung out to dry.
jcrewesFeb 25, 2011
It's hilarious to see people trying to excuse "scalping" as a legitimate "job".
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paogleFeb 26, 2011
Except, of course, the five new shows also sold out in an hour and I am betting scalpers got a lot of those tix too....
martymankinsFeb 27, 2011
As a big fan of LCD Soundsystem, this is a cool move for them. It's not always you can praise a band for making things work for their fans.
bmarsicoMar 19, 2011
SO very ingenious!
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brianbaileyjNov 14, 2011
this band is awesome..