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vigrocoOct 4, 2010
So, organic crops cost more to produce, yield much less, and are not nutritionally better than conventionally grown crops. Why are people jumping on this bandwagon again?
Oh, that's right, people are scientifically illiterate these days.
mwtappOct 4, 2010Submitter
A lot of people buy organic to avoid synthetic pesticides & fertilizers because they think synthetic pesticides & fertilizers are carcinogens and also harm the environment.
Closed AccountOct 5, 2010
So they're ignorant morons, got it
dannyerisseOct 5, 2010
You clearly have no f**king idea what you are talking about. Could you define "conventionally grown crops"? I suggest you read a book. One of my favorite authors is Michael Pollan. If you're not good at reading, and I would venture to guess that you aren't, you should watch the movie Food Inc.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
cardozaOct 5, 2010
Actually, vigroco is correct. He probably reads academic (peer reviewed) journals, and avoids fantasy authors such as Michael Pollan. If you want to be apart of a serious academic forum your first lesson would be to cite relevant material. Michael Pollan is not objective he is an activist, he is not a scientist he is a journalist. Food Inc. is an over sensationalized movie. Although, the movie does have good points, it should not be taken as an end all. It is easy to highlight the outliers because that is what people want from entertainment. When logic and reason comes in to play things can get quite dry.
You shouldn't shoot vigroco's point of view down. He is trying to come from a logical scientific perspective. While you are coming from more of an emotional entertainment perspective.
iclipperOct 5, 2010
Although there is scant evidence that Organic is better for you, it's pretty well established that synthetic fertilizers cause significant environmental damage - for example, the runoff has been tied to dead zones in the oceans. So, you could argue that the price of conventionally produced food is too low, because it does not account for externalities, a the Achilles heel of market-based pricing.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountOct 5, 2010
versus organic ddt?
cardozaOct 5, 2010
How about organic pesticides? Rotenone is a common organic pesticide which is only mildly toxic to humans but deadly to fish. When used improperly, Rotenone is devastating to local fisheries. Organic pesticides can also use arsenic, mercury, cyanide, and sulphur.
Statistics found on runoff or pesticide poisonings generally encompass all pesticides. That's both organic and synthetic. However, many people are under the impression that organic pesticides don't exist or are not dangerous. Its quite amusing when i hear someone say they don't wash their produce because it's organic. The problem is improper use and not how the compound is derived.
bethbotOct 4, 2010
One of the most important points made in this video is that people who buy locally produced organics know where their money is going, and know that they are using those extra dollars to support a food system that encourages better treatment of the environment.
And yes, there are plenty of studies that show organic foods to be much more nutritionally dense than their picked-too-early, chemically-treated, GMO-infused counterparts.
cardozaOct 5, 2010
I understand where you're coming from. I like to know how my food is produced. However, I don't take the blind leap of faith to organics. There is no nutritional or taste difference. People who are pro-organic tend to vilify conventional foods by using words or phrases such as: pesticides, picked-too-early, GMO, chemically-treated, etc...
Pesticides are used in both conventional and organic production. If you look up organic pesticides and their EIQ's (Environmental Impact Quotient) you may be surprised at how dangerous some can be.
Picking produce too early is a practice used to ship foods around the country/world. It is practiced in both organic and conventional farming. It protects the produce from spoiling and bruising while being shipped. Buying local is a good way around this, but it wont matter if its organic or conventional. This is why most people say organic tastes different. It's not the fact its organic, its that the produce is fresh. You can still buy fresh conventional produce at local markets.
As for GMO's... Humans have been genetically modifying organisms for thousands of years. Now we do it in labs and we know what we are changing. It was originally done by selecting the best mutated plant and breeding them to our liking. The produce we enjoy today can be traced back to wild plants. However, most of our modern day produce could not grow in the wild because humans got in the way of natural selection. Another method used in modifying plants is radiation. To speed up mutations some breeders irradiate their plants to get a variety of offspring. Organic farmers can use radiated offspring and still get their organic sticker of approval.
To put it short... I wouldn't worry about organic vs conventional. If you are worried about your health or the environment then you should get to know your farmer. You can also buy local and seasonal produce, but get ready for a very limited diet. Try to avoid the overly dogmatic insistence on organic food.
energyeinsteinOct 5, 2010
"There is no nutritional or taste difference"
Hm, yes there's a taste different.
And re: GMO taste different - ever been to France and eaten the produce there?
rockaway17Oct 5, 2010
You're right. Most people prefer the taste of inorganic food, despite the fact that they think they enjoy organic food more. Watch Penn & Teller's Bulls**t on this topic for more information.
cardozaOct 5, 2010
Energyeinstein,
The difference you are probably tasting is from seasonality. A tomato fresh from my garden is almost always better than from the supermarket. Supermarkets have to get produce shipped to them, which is shipped unripe to avoid spoilage. This lets you enjoy cheap food and produce like tomatoes in winter. Fresh usually wins, but it that doesn't mean it has to be organic. I have yet to travel to France, but I'll go out on a limb and assume that I wont be able to taste the difference.
simonjester666Oct 6, 2010
One factor in food that people often forget, the soil and environment are the main factors in how several foods taste. The produce in France tastes good because of the environment in which it was grown, much like their grapes and wine. Napa Vally has the same great environment and that is why those wines have proven superior. Vidalia onions from Georgia, San Marzano tomatoes from Naples. Just a few more examples. Also sometimes organic food can taste better simply because it came from a farm near by, the food can not be shipped as easily so organic food tends to be local and ripe. I am not on the organic band wagon at all, I think its bulls**t, but I do believe you should buy local whenever you can, some people in this world just don't have that luxury. Food does not grow everywhere the same way.
thezonerOct 5, 2010
always nice to support local
allisonv12Oct 5, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
dannyerisseOct 5, 2010
You seem to be attempting to be witty, but I'm failing to be amused. Try harder.
allisonv12Oct 6, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
dannyerisseOct 6, 2010
So, seriously... Where'd you copy/paste that from?
kysangelOct 5, 2010
Hey Wife... watch this video... you are spending to much money....
kysangel
1tk0lnOct 5, 2010
I believe cardoza is a PR plant. USDA anything is really a scam. The FDA and the giant food corporations have watered down the USDA organic badge to mean nearly nothing. The fact is that GMO's and anything that says "natural and artificial" flavors on it are poisonous to some degree. Perhaps you wont get sick today from eating that garbage, but where do you think cancer, type 2 diabetes, heart deiseas, alzheimers etc. come from? One doesn't catch those. They develop in your body as a cumulative result of eating toxic poisons found in any "conventional" food. The FDA and the USDA aren't doing us any favors labeling things "organic," example: USDA allows hexane processed soy ingredients to be labelled organic (hexane is a neurotoxin). Also the words "natural" and "all natural" are just lies. Do your homework, don't believe the industry, and support efforts to dissolve the FDA. That is one dangerous organization. The FDA is not protecting you. They only protect profits.
Buy organic, but make sure it actually is organic. Go here: http://www.organicconsumers.org/ for more information.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
cardozaOct 5, 2010
Hahaha! I'm anything from a PR plant. I actually agree with just about everything you posted up there. I don't agree that GMO's are poisonous. I'm more worried about the ownership of DNA and government getting their hands on it. I do not care for the USDA or FDA in the least. I don't like the government telling me what I can and can't eat. It's hard enough trying to buy unpasteurized milk. I was trying to point out that uneducated assumptions that all organic produce is safe is a dangerous way of thinking. Which you also pointed out true for "natural" foods. I personally grow most of my own organic food, but I'm lucky enough to have a couple of acres. Anyway, good luck dissolving the FDA... and can you throw in the Fed Reserve in there too!
1tk0lnOct 5, 2010
I am glad we agree on most things. I should say that I understand that most everything on this planet is a GMO. Genetically only asexually regenerating organisms can accomplish reproduction without mixing genes with another of the species. That said the process of firing genes into an organism's DNA and then calling the result food is hardly acceptable. The resultant organism may be determined to be food, but only after careful study and real scientific method determines that said organism is not poisonous. This is currently never done. Creating hybrids the natural way through breeding should perhaps not share the GMO label. Altering organisms DNA through random gene additions deserve the label: Frankenfood.
I hope some day soon to grow my own food, but until then I am stuck with what is available for purchase.
cardozaOct 5, 2010
Hey 1tk0ln,
I have a video for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP0hUH--t90&feature=player_embedded
Watching it makes my head hurt. Government gets out of hand too often. This is something we can all stand behind instead of the bickering about what we should and shouldn't eat.
DannykchanOct 6, 2010
Its good to know !!
Interesting ! Thanks ! ;D
simonjester666Oct 6, 2010
One interesting point they made in the video, the farm equipment needs to make more pases over the crop, that means more fossil fuel consumption and more carbon emissions in the air. The pesticides have not been proven to harm us but carbon emissions have. More carbon emissions come from farming equipment than cars right now, imagine if all farming went organic, national carbon emissions would triple or worse.
wardcosbysonJan 6, 2011
they are