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dusanmalMay 22, 2011
Fake surprise...
"When you compare specific model categories, GM and Ford are on par with Japan, Korea and Europe." - crucial omission: WHEN COMPARING MODELS OFFERED IN USA. This phrase must be included. In Japan, Korea and Europe you can buy models performing significantly even immensely better in this sense (including those from relatives of USA based manufacturers). Including whole World and all models available real picture emerges: USA based manufacturers are doing pitifully bad and their oversea branches are barely keeping up.
Problem is that there is a vicious cycle - manufacturers assuming that public will not buy identically equipped cars with less power and more fuel economy, thus not offering such models thus having sales figures supporting their own (bad) imagination.
digghasnoethicsMay 22, 2011
And the point that the only reason GM and particularly Ford are on a par is because they imported their European designs to the US to replace their old, inefficient, boxes.
Oh, and I've no idea how they are doing the testing, or what dumb standards have been applied, but the diesel numbers should be MUCH higher than those reported.
Closed AccountMay 22, 2011
MPG hasn't really gotten too much better since the inception of cars. in contrast, the model T got anywhere from 16-25 mpg, and one could say gas is a little better refined these days (despite the good chunk of gas that has other stuff in it like cleaners.) not to mention they weren't necessarily driven on smooth paved roads, which can drastically lower your mpg.
cars in the 70's and 80's got decent mpg, comparable or better than most cars of today, and they weighed just as much or more in many cases, sometimes 2-3 times or more.
It's not for lack of technology, it's for greed of profit. if you could go 100 miles or more on a gallon @ 1.50 per gallon, their profits would drop immensely. for those of you too young to remember, gas was around that price or less just ten years ago. and recently 'honest' speculators even said oil should be around $60 per barrel. right now it's about $110 (and has gone high/will go higher) meaning if you scale it down, gas should only be a little over $2.00 a gallon today.
nerysMay 23, 2011
Fuel Economy iks a waste of time. period. as WOPR found out the only way to win the game is to NOT PLAY. I drive a geo metro. THE ONLY reason this works at all for me is that societally no one else drives them. ie as a whole.
as long as we "play" with gasoline we can NOT WIN the game. this means we need a fuel no one can "LOCK" control of. currently the only fuel that can do that is electricity.
example. Gas is currently about $3.80 a gallon. National average fuel economy is 20mpg.
in the morning I will sprinkle my pixie dust and our national average will become 40mpg
on tuesday morning you want to take a guess what gas will cost?
yeah its a no brainer. the only way to win the game is to NOT PLAY.
we have to FORCE them to start making electric vehicles. VIABLE electric vehicles using NIMH tech. not crazy expensive short lived lithium cells or pointless lead cells.
100miles 4 door mid size sedan with a battery good for 20-30 YEARS is within our technology means for $13,500 OUT THE DOOR. they simply refuse to make them (and for good reason a lot less profit)
partrowMay 22, 2011
Which cars are "Detroit" cars, and which are "Japanese", etc. ?
We should all know by now that many "foreign cars" are not only made in the U.S. by U.S. employees, but also often have a higher percentage of U.S. made parts. And many "American" cars have parts which are made elsewhere, and some of the cars are made elsewhere as well, such as the Chevrolet Impala.
Then you have the complication of cross ownership, such as Ford owning Jaguar or Volvo, for example, but the cars were made in the UK and Sweden. Were those American cars? Then Ford sold these brands to India and China, respectively. GM makes cars in China, and sells more cars there than in the U.S.
Folks, the days of "American cars", "Japanese cars", etc. has been over for at least 10 years. It is time we thought globally instead of "we and they".
spitrageMay 23, 2011
A good site for comparing real world MPG is fuelly.com, not that I don't trust the numbers the car companies put out, but its more interesting to see what cars are getting under normal driving conditions.
gkiltzMay 23, 2011
The advantage will keep changing over the next several years as technology advances.