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eadnamsJun 20, 2011
Around western Canada, an electric car is a coal powered car...
tomtutsJun 20, 2011
"According to the data, more than one-third of Volt buyers (35 percent) considered no other car. They had to have a Volt. That's very exciting news for the Chevy marketing team."
Hate to burst the bubble of the Chevy marketing team, but the reason so many people 'considered no other car' is because there was no other car with that feature set for that price. In a few more years, when we have the same product available from the likes of Toyota, Honda, etc, Chevy's numbers will plummet. When they have to really compete over these customers, I hope they have it in them to put up a good fight.
markderailJun 20, 2011
How can the Volt plummet down from it's current max production capability?
It will take many more years to ramp up, if demand holds, and it will.
Don't underestimate "fleet" cars. Government assigned cars, company cars, rental cars. That alone can sustain 10k units per year if not more.
Fleet managers understand TCO, and are often forced to buy 'local' produce. One reason why Toyota builds the US Camry in the US.
brooks007Jun 21, 2011
You assuming chevy does nothing in that time to improve their product.
corezzJun 20, 2011
This article felt written by Chevy and so felt a bit bias. For one it doesnt explain the limited battery range of only 40 kms before needing a recharge and so if you travel more than 40km/day you are mostly using gas.
I prefer the Nissan Leaf because it is a true electric car. The problem is that it only goes 100km before needing a charge.
Logically having a hybrid like the Volt makes sense but I am still waiting for a car that balances out to have a respectable battery life (at least 100km like the Leaf) but also include a combustible as a backup for those cases when you cant get to a charger in time.
FallteaJun 20, 2011
Agreed but as a everyday car it's mileage is good enough to use battery for most of your daily commutes. Having a gasoline engine as a backup is a good way to transition people into an electric ... at least until the batteries last a lot longer for a lot cheaper.
bdbrJun 20, 2011
The numbers aren't quite as bad as you say - they're in miles. Volt battery range is about 64 km, Leaf 160km.
taiyoryuJun 20, 2011
40 _miles_ on a single electric charge. That's just over 64 km.
As for the explanation you seek, the limited battery range was a design decision by the Chevy engineers. In other words, they limited the range on purpose. "Why would they do something silly like that?", you may ask. A smaller range = smaller battery pack = less cost. Battery technology is still expensive, so using less of it improves affordability. (Also lowers the weight, resulting in a smaller motor and higher efficiency.) When cost is a constraint, you have to make a compromise somewhere, so since 70% of American car trips are 40 miles or less, the engineers chose that range.
markderailJun 20, 2011
A 20-EV mile Volt, versus a 40-EV mile Volt, would be lighter and possibly 10k$ cheaper, get better MPG in hybrid mode.
Typical overkill with a 40-EV, I do about 20 miles one-way to work, and a 10-EV would be fine, considering that 80% of the trip is bumper-to-bumper or low speed. IOW, like most suburb-to-city commuters.
With a 40-EV Volt, and an experienced Prius driver, I'm sure that a full charge would last me multiple days. (pulse & glide)
kasha34Jun 20, 2011
The range miles you guys cite are "up to..." figures.
As in "up to 40 miles".
If you turn on the lights, radio, a/c or heat it goes way down. Likewise if you're climbing hills.
markderailJun 20, 2011
Yes, just like in the exact same car, a gallon of gas can have more, or less, mileage. Especially with the AC on.
Since when are mileage numbers, on ANY car, absolutes?
Mythbusters did a great AC versus Windows Open.
If you ever have to live through a 3hr traffic jam in high heat, like a busy border crossing, a "regular" car with AC on can overheat and die, before it runs out of gas.
Won't happen with hybrid - it's like a water pump that pumps to a reservoir - the ICE will turn off & on to maintain a reservoir of energy.
The Prius doing so more efficiently, with a minuscule reservoir, from 15% back up to 100%.
The Volt doing so with a reservoir so huge, it doesn't bother charging it higher than 40%.
- which makes sense, you don't want to Plug-In a fully charged car that charged from costlier gasoline.
kasha34Jun 20, 2011
Of course gas engines vary in mileage. But the difference, as you know, is that with the VOLT you're paying $20,000 extra for the ability to run on electric.
And people should know that what they're getting for that $20k is probably 25 miles a day. Twenty minutes driving on the highway.
They're saving less than a gallon of gas a day. For $20K. BFD.
fertilebastardJun 21, 2011
"up to 40 miles" Assuming the battery is brand new.
kasha34Jun 22, 2011
Assuming you don't turn on the a/c or the heat. Or the lights, radio, CD player.
And assuming the temp outside isn't extremely hot or cold, as the battery doesn't work as well then.
The true range will be 25 miles. Wait and see. So you're paying an extra $20,000 to go 25 miles a day on battery. That's about the same as with a Prius, isn't it?
kasha34Jun 20, 2011
Stop saying the VOLT has a 40 mile range on battery. It does not.
That's if you don't turn on:
the heater or the a/c
the lights or the radio
It also assumes the temperature isn't too cold or warm. And that you don't go up any steep hills.
It's going to turn out that the VOLT actual range is more like 25 miles.
markderailJun 20, 2011
Plus, it depends on driver skill. If you accelerate hard and brake hard, as in "angry driving" you will get less.
If you drive smooth, you can get more, especially at times of the year when it's not too cold, no snow. Winter tires cuts on mileage too.
The car has X amount of energy that averages 40 miles of mixed driving in the best conditions.
People need to know that buying a 2005-2006 G2 used Prius, and add an OEM Plug-In kit, say for about 20 EV-miles, will spend much less than a Volt. So there are alternatives. It's normal for a 1.0 version to be more expensive, have less units made per month, etc.
It's still an outstanding 1.0 car....from a two-time G2 & G3 Prius owner. However I plan on skipping the Volt and going straight to the Lexus CT200h, for the same Canadian $ price tag. Unless the Volt goes down in price in 4 years, which I doubt.
brooks007Jun 21, 2011
Actualy its between 25 and 50 ...so 25 is the minimum.
kasha34Jun 21, 2011
Zero is the minimum.
I bet the realistic range is 25 or 30 miles. Which in a Civic is less than a gallon of gas.
So the VOLT will save a gallon of gas or so per day.
For an extra twenty grand? What is the big deal?
markderailJun 21, 2011
Which is why had the Volt been available last year, and the Chevy Cruze, I still would have bought my 2010 Prius.
For the same price as a Cruze with the same options as the non-basic Prius at 28k, I have a better TCO, less maintenance work to be done, more inside space and huge trunk.
In return I get poor road handling (unless you go perfectly straight), less comfortable seating, less acceleration.
The fact that I use perhaps 30% less gas than a Cruze, polute 5x less (due to PZEV exhaust & Atkinson cycle engine) were NOT deciding factors.
On my 2006 Prius, the dealer gave me above 45% of my original purchase price. In 4 yrs, 70k miles, I changed the wipers once, and two oil changes per year at winter tire/summer tire rotation. I kept my winter tires for the next Prius.
So the big deal is value over time. However, among working professionals able to pay 40 grand on a car, keep it longer than 5 years?
GM missed it - it should have been a regular parallel hybrid instead of serial, with a larger/better battery than a Prius, say 5 EV mile, with the same look & handling, interior design, priced below - or at - the same price of a 2011 Prius.
Instead, they went with political influence : EV overkill just for the 7500$ incentive.
If the Volt was 32k$, minus the 7500$ incentive, we wouldn't be having these conversations.
kasha34Jun 22, 2011
I don't understand the deal with the Prius either.
It's only electric when it's going less than twenty five mph, right? And only for an hour or so.
So how much gas does it save? A gallon a day?
markderailJun 22, 2011
Sideways reader? Skipped some lines?
Hell I took the time to make consistent proper English sentences and paragraphs, that clearly state the reasons.
Do you thumb down Chevy Cruze drivers, because they waste a gallon a day??? Compared to a Hummer, you could say a Chevy Cruze driver saves a gallon an hour.
FWIW, the Prius is *not* an electric car, never meant to be. It's electric assist. Think of it as a huge kickass Starter, and that there are TWO of them, with 6 extra car batteries. (oversimplifying)
What extra dollars a Prius costs above a similar Mazda 3, is for the hybrid system.
What extra dollars a Chevy Cruze costs above a similar Mazda 3, is larger size, larger wheels, larger motor, etc.
A Prius has more interior space and cargo space than a Cruze; a Cruze has better styling, handling, acceleration.
Now ask this important question - how come "decent" Cruze MPG numbers weren't available 20, 15 or 10 years ago, on a similar car?
GM's ICE technology has only marginally changed in that time. Automatic transmission tech for mid-level cars? 1%?
When you buy a car, used or not, you choose a poison. Mine was cargo space, the Prius being cheaper than a minivan to own & operate.
kasha34Jun 22, 2011
Someone please answer question:
Is it true Prius can only run on battery below 25 mph?
Is it true Prius can only run only battery for 30 minutes before needs recharge?
kasha34Jun 20, 2011
"Finally, almost a quarter (24 percent) of the earliest Volt buyers either have or plan to get photovoltaic solar power for their homes, letting them recharge on renewable energy."
Oh? They "plan" to get PV solar for their homes? What's stopping them? Aside from the fact that it doesn't pay?
partrowJun 20, 2011
Plan to?
Why haven't they already installed it if it is so good?
This is typical of "feel good" greenies.
kasha34Jun 20, 2011
Exactly. I plan to spend the evening in a hot tub with two bikini models.
barackalypseJun 20, 2011
"Chevrolet says almost 90 percent of the cars traded in on Volts were non-GM vehicles"
That is because most GM buyers have learned their lesson and will be buying a Ford or a Honda or Toyota next time =)
Schweppesale2Jun 20, 2011
Isn't Ford the only major US car company that didn't require a bail out?
barackalypseJun 20, 2011
That is correct, GM and Chrysler both received bailouts, Ford did not.
partrowJun 20, 2011
Who actually buys these cars?
You and I (assuming you are in the 53% that actually pay federal income tax) buy part of each one of them, because they are all subsidized by the federal government.
These cars and other "green" cars have to be an embarrassment to drive, because everyone looks at it and gets mad that they had to help you buy it.
kasha34Jun 21, 2011
I know I will feel that way.
I hate the people that took advantage of the stupidest idea of the twenty first century....Cash For Clunkers.
Why am I buying them a f**king, goddamn car? Global warming? Are you kidding?
publikjohn9Jun 20, 2011
My guess, Volt car owners have rainbow bumper stickers, or peace sign bumper stickers, or ones that say 0bama. These are the feel good people who love driving cars powered by electricity that is produced by coal or nuclear reactors.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
FallteaJun 20, 2011
Digging you down because we gotta stop injecting politics (even if it wasn't your point) into every conversation. It's a step in the right direction ... nothing happens instantly.
Closed AccountJun 20, 2011
It is not a step in the right direction. It is a government driven design. It is every bit as much a failure as anything designed by the government. The market will drive us in the right direction.
FallteaJun 20, 2011
FFS Government driven design got us onto the moon man ... quit being so paranoid and embrace stuff that may help our planet evolve to be greener... not everything driven by the market is a good thing or in the right direction.
Closed AccountJun 20, 2011
Green is a joke. There is a significant difference between spending money to go to the moon and the government trying to generate a market solution. Government driven economies have failed each and every time they have been tried, and they will also fail this time.
isidrisuJun 20, 2011
Your comment is the joke. This "the government can't do anything" claim is just stupid.
How do you think we are still a nation 230+ years after inception? How do we have roads, dams, bridges, sewers, food safety, THE MILITARY - not to mention how the government subsidizes tons of other things like electricity, internet, water, education, any charitable project you can deduct from your taxes, etc?
Don't be a sheeple.
Even if you don't believe in "green" tech, understand that efficiency at a power plant is significantly higher than your car engine. That will save the overall energy market a s**t ton in the future when electric becomes the norm.
arpadJun 20, 2011
Digging publikjohn9 back up because this is a political issue. The Volt (and the Leaf) wouldn't exist but for politics since a $42,000 compact car is practically a contradiction in terms. Without subsidies all down the line, not just the final insult of the $7,500 buyer's subsidy, the Volt would be a greenie-weenies wet dream.
So it is political.
FallteaJun 20, 2011
Didn't argue it was political but would prefer if the conversation was about the benefits. It should be subsidized and offered up to as many people as possible ... getting off oil in any fashion should be a high priority. Imagine if we convert most our cars to the leaf or volt or something of that fashion. Would dramatically reduce our oil dependency and help try to save this rock we live on. We can only sh*t on this planet for so long before it sh*ts back.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
publikjohn9Jun 21, 2011
Digging you down because you're a butthurt douchebag who can't come to terms with the fact that you helped elect a f**king moron into office.
FallteaJun 21, 2011
Nice assumption buddy I'm Canadian, so no I didn't but just shows me where your bias is.
publikjohn9Jun 21, 2011
Why the f**k were you commenting about my politics then?
Stay the f**k in canaduh, and butt out of our politics.
FallteaJun 21, 2011
Stay ignorant buddy ... you're good at it.
publikjohn9Jun 21, 2011
^^^likewise eh!^^^
kasha34Jun 20, 2011
You're right. What a waste of time and resources.
kasha34Jun 20, 2011
Since the true range of the VOLT will likely average 25 miles, the fact that "Exactly two-thirds of all Volt miles thus far have been covered on power from the electric grid" means that VOLT buyers are people who don't drive much.
Hello! These are people who are driving 25 or 30 miles a day.
BFD. Here's the message: the VOLT is a great car for people who don't use their car. For $41,000 they're saving a gallon of gas a day or less. Whoop-ti-do.
markderailJun 20, 2011
Factor in TCO.
A 2011 Matrix and a 2011 Prius, both driving 20k miles, over 5 years, end up being worth the same in TCO. Minus the extra pollution the Matrix made.
After 5 years, during those 5 years, the Prius required no brake jobs. Batteries on hybrids last easily 8+ years.
The Volt will be similar, however I suspect it will need new shocks more often than a Prius.
A Volt should easily last to 700k miles, since a G2 or G3 Prius can easily "live" to 500k miles w/o major repairs, assuming a Prius uses it's engine 2/3 of the time, versus the Volt at 1/2 the time.
IOW, major payback after 5 years. So whoop-ti-do people should sit back, wait 4 years, and buy the leased-out Volts.
Meanwhile, if you need a new car, consider changing the word 'new' for any quality car with excellent TCO.
Funny that people that buy 40k$ + luxury / muscle cars are respected - for making noise, pollution and unnecessary waste. At least the Volt has respectable looks.
FallteaJun 20, 2011
Getting off the grid is the next essential step. Passing the consumption onto something else like coal, petroleum, gas isn't good. Also hope they nail down a good battery recycling program and exchange. I've heard they may recycle them into the power grid to act as backup power supplies, providing power at peak times to relieve stress. Once we have high efficiency solar panels and other natural methods we will be golden in that aspect. Overall great news for energy independence.
Job fields relating to extraction, production, overall infrastructure of oil will take a hit eventually though. So that needs to be figured out.
kasha34Jun 21, 2011
So your plan is produce the electricity how?
Don't say solar or wind. Please.
blacklilyninjaJun 20, 2011
good
monvalleyJun 20, 2011
So far the Volt is a toy for the rich; something for them to talk about at c**ktail parties. The average Joe cannot pay $40K and drive 25 to 30 miles in the real world. If you use the gas engine mileage is about 30mpg overall. But this is the beginning and someday the price will fall to be affordable; meanwhile I'll stick with my $25K Prius and 50mpg no matter what. I wonder if battery driven or hydrogen powered will dominate in the future?
markderailJun 20, 2011
Yet I see many soccer moms driving SUV's, living in a 'moderate' home. So I don't agree on what you term as 'rich'.
I rarely see truly 'rich' people driving cars that aren't at least worth 100k$+.
I see the Volt more in league with the Lexus CT200h, than in league with the Prius. The Prius contender is the Honda Civic Hybrid, the Camry Hybrid or the Ford Escape Hybrid.
Have you sat in a Volt yet? Or a CT200h?
The family with young kids and possibly just one full-time salary will stick with sub-20k$ cars, then move up. Once two full-time salaries kick in, most educated adults will buy/rent a car near to what they make per year.
A college grad with 5+ years experience will make over 40k$ per year, easy, in just about any field.
Closed AccountJun 20, 2011
What a joke. Chevy sold 281 Volts in February. Ford sold 150,678 vehicles. This article states that they are selling them as fast as they can get them to the showroom, but they need the government to subsidize them to the tune of $7500 dollars a car. That statement makes about as much sense as Obamanomics. The Obamacar is as big a failure as Obama.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
taiyoryuJun 20, 2011
Toyota Prius was subsidized during its initial sales push as well.