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Closed AccountApr 30, 2011
We need some reforms before the whole system goes broke.
dusanmalApr 30, 2011
No. We need to understand why. Main reasons center on comparative wealth of US:
1) Even "poor" in US are relatively wealthy vs. the rest of the World. Hence, across the board US citizens have poor, unhealthy choices in life while not pressed by life situation to do healthier things. Look at dominating diseases - over-consumption and lack of activity as underlining causes.
2) As "rich" country we have slowly accustomed to BETTER health care. US health care is indeed Cadillac of health care, with appropriate price tag attached.
Hence, sick population in high-end health care system - price must be higher.
Do not forget consequences of trying to move us from Cadillac to Prius of health care: instant increase in bad results as life style won't change nor can be (or should be) legislated (we are free people after all).
We need to understand and accept this situation. It can't be fought but by injuring prosperity and limiting freedoms.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
novenatorApr 30, 2011Submitter
The US has some of the best health care in the world if you are super-rich. The overall system only ranks 34th in the world, despite us spending the highest per capita on it, and leaving 50 million without care.
kasha34May 2, 2011
Oh, now it's FIFTY million? You're counting illegals too, aren't you?
eraptorApr 30, 2011
Novenator is right. The "superior" healthcare you're citing does NOT apply to all Americans. Hence, you're argument has no merit.
Healthcare Reform legislation did NOTHING to curb the double digit rise of healthcare costs (i.e., prices charged) emanating from healthcare providers (hospitals/doctors), medical device makers, pharmaceutical companies AND health insurance companies. That's the CENTRAL problem with U.S. healthcare...unfettered cost increases.
Disagree? Try pricing an aspirin (or any medical device, drug, etc.) at your local hospital (amount billed) against the price at Wal-Mart.
timelessbwApr 30, 2011
The people standing in front of the homeless shelter I drive by each morning on my way to work would be surprised to hear they are relatively wealthy. Most of them don't even look relatively warm in our frigid weather. Spring is a big break for them. They can only stay in the shelter at night and I don't know what the overflow does when the shelter is filled to capacity. I don't think they all live until warm weather hits. Many of the poor who are not in shelters are not able to afford anything more than cheap junk food which is extremely fattening. Emergency rooms don't really provide a lot of meaningful non emergency healthcare services and no follow up care at all.
kasha34May 2, 2011
And we who work should get less, so those who don't get more.
timelessbwMay 2, 2011
And we who work should get less, so the idle rich can get more. What a world.
drmangrumApr 30, 2011
We had a chance for reform, instead we got Obamacare. Progressives like Novenator want to blame republicans, but I would remind everyone the bill passed without a single republican vote; democrats didn't need republicans, democrats needed blue dogs.
Instead of trying reform the Why's of high health care cost, democrats reformed the Who's of health care cost.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
eraptorApr 30, 2011
Hey Doc,
You forgot to mention that Conservative Republicans AND Conservative Democrat's GUTTED the most effective elements of healthcare reform BEFORE it was passed (big surprise...NOT). Did you think we would forget that legislative disgrace by Republicans?
Max Baucus' BIPARTISAN Senate Finance Committee did MOST of the damage at the behest of Republicans so don't even THINK about hiding behind those Republican double-dealing votes/"bi-partisanship". Republicans have been doing EVERYTHING in their power to protect special interest groups (like the healthcare industry) at the expense of the country and American people. Hell, they're STILL trying to destroy the best elements of what WAS passed.
kasha34May 2, 2011
You forgot to mention that 85% of Americans are happy with their health care arrangements. And we don't want to have less so that those who won't work have more. You lefties have pitched this for thirty years and we STILL aren't buying it.
skews13Apr 30, 2011
The full implementation of the Affordable Healthcare Act can't come soon enough.
circeherbivoraApr 30, 2011
I'm with you. The costs of medical care are skyrocketing out of control. In this day and age of record keeping technology, we do NOT need insurance companies any longer. They don't serve any real purpose. Let the government do the work of the insurance agencies, take out the profits motive and see things improve!
ROGU3WAV3Apr 30, 2011
Someone's never been to the Post Office.
timelessbwApr 30, 2011
I use the post office every single day, excluding Sundays. Been doing it for decades and have never been let down yet. What's your point?
spectecjrMay 1, 2011
Someone's never looked at the actual statistics for Social Security and Medicare, which run at 96% efficiency - for every dollar paid in, $0.96 go towards caring for the people who use it.
Private Health Insurance? That figure is somewhere between $0.75 and $0.85 out of every dollar.
See the difference?
ROGU3WAV3May 1, 2011
Citation definitely needed on that one, jr.
spectecjrMay 1, 2011
Ah, I was wrong. Social Security runs at 99.61% efficiency on a dollar in vs. benefits paid basis. (Due mainly to being highly automated)
http://www.cato.org/pubs/ssps/ssp15.pdf
In several important ways, the present Social
Security Administration does a highly efficient
job in administering the retirement program.
Overall administration costs are currently close
to $10 per worker. Those costs amount to 0.42
percent of contributions and 0.57 percent of
benefits paid. As a percentage of assets, the
administration costs are 0.39 percent.
Depending on who you ask, Medicare runs at 99.51% efficiency... or as this conservative think tank states:
http://www.cahi.org/cahi_contents/resources/pdf/CAHI_Medicare_Admin_Final_Publication.pdf
One of the most common, and least challenged, assertions in the debate over U.S. health
care policy is that Medicare administrative costs are about 2 percent of claims costs,
while private insurance companies’ administrative costs are in the 20 to 25 percent
range.
It is very difficult to do a real apples-to-apples comparison of Medicare’s true costs
with those of the insurance industry. The primary problem is that private sector
insurers must track and divulge their administrative costs, while most of Medicare’s
administrative costs are hidden or completely ignored by the complex and bureaucratic
reporting and tracking systems used by the government.
This study, based in part on a technical paper by Mark Litow of Milliman, Inc., finds
that Medicare’s actual administrative costs are 5.2 percent, when the hidden costs are
included.
In addition, the technical paper shows that average private sector administrative costs,
about 8.9 percent – and 16.7 percent when commission, premium tax, and profit are
included – are significantly lower than the numbers frequently cited.
---
Either way, the Govt system is much more efficient.
ROGU3WAV3May 1, 2011
Actually yeah, I'm a vet and have medical through the VA. The quality in doctors sux big compared to private practices. It's just like going to the Post Office - the people behind the counter could care less about your experience. And that jack, is a fact.
ROGU3WAV3May 1, 2011
Do you have govt health-care? I do and I can honestly say from my experience that It's much like going to the Post Office - the people behind the counter could care less about your experience. That's a fact.
spectecjrMay 1, 2011
I've heard of massively varying experiences with VA hospitals - they vary wildly depending on where in the country you are.
Similarly, a friend of mine in Memphis was having a hell of a time with healthcare there - even with top-line health insurance. The hospitals? They were just terrible compared to what they'd seen in both Florida and Chicago.
None of this is due to Medicare vs. VA. And similarly, the VA is unrelated to Medicare - they're both government run schemes, but Medicare doesn't dictate where you get your care from.
My doc is awesome. He takes Medicare. He actively campaigns for universal healthcare. And I'll go to him until the day he retires (which unfortunately is in about 10 years).
Average doctor visit with him? 45 minutes. Average visit with others? 15. And he knows everything about me.
That's how it should work. I trust him to make solid recommendations about how healthcare should work.
ROGU3WAV3May 1, 2011
Your citations say nothing to the inefficiency the end user sees in care, or inefficiency in the billing system between the parties involved (overspending).
spectecjrMay 1, 2011
Medicare pays less than health insurers for the same treatment. And the care is provided by private industry, the same way it is if you have a private health insurer.
Any more critiques?
kasha34May 2, 2011
What an untrue statement. There are people getting Social Security that shouldn't get it.
And tons getting Social Security Disability that are not disabled. Wouldn't that all count as inefficiency?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountMay 2, 2011
Do'h http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2009/10/25/60-minutes-medicare-fraud-raises-troubling-questions-about-our-govern
drmangrumApr 30, 2011
You think that will make things better? You have eyes, can't you see? The government getting more involved is one of the main reasons for the high price of health care.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
eraptorApr 30, 2011
Oh look, here comes the Waaaaa-mbulance.
kasha34May 2, 2011
Yeah? Then why did Obama put it off until after the 2012 elections? Hmmm? Cause he knows what you pretend not to know. That the majority of Americans already hate it. And as it kicks in, they hate it even more.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
eraptorMay 2, 2011
Wrong, he didn't want a distraction from the issues that matter to the American people (i.e., JOBS and economic recovery which Republicans continue stonewalling).
Of course, that was before the Ryan plan pissed off MOST Republican voters (aka seniors). If you want to talk about widespread hatred for a public policy, we have THE poster child for it...The Ryan Plan (which kills Medicare).
I'll be laughing at this public policy disaster well after the Republicans get their asses handed to them at the polls. Enjoy your boy's brief stint back in power, tick-tock...
laurahoustonApr 30, 2011
I'd PAY into medicare about $9,000 a year, if the gov would enroll pre-65 or whatever the 'age' it is now.
That is what "for profit" insurance is terrified of.
drmangrumApr 30, 2011
I had no problems with my 'for profit' insurance until your 'for profit' government cronies got involved. I'm facing a 27% hike in my premiums because of communists like you.
laurahoustonApr 30, 2011
I'm sure your 'for profit' middleman between your doctor and you- loves you!
eraptorApr 30, 2011
No, you're facing a major premium hike because your private sector health insurance company sees you as a liability they'd prefer to walk away from. Since they legally can't, they try to "encourage" you to leave by hiking your premium.
FYI - Your age and private sector greed have more to do with that premium hike than healthcare reform.
spectecjrMay 1, 2011
Bingo. If you run the math, too, right now with medicare taking nearly everyone from 65 and up, the private insurers get a roughly 30% subsidy because they're insuring a much cheaper group of people. (It could be more; the 65+ group make up 45% of total healthcare spending, and they're only 18% of the population).
If we followed your plan, not only would overall healthcare costs go down for individuals, but it'd fix Medicare - because it could now take advantage of the fact that 82% of its users would only incur 55% of its costs - leaving more money on the table the help the older group.
Insurance is meant to work by insuring a whole population of people. The expensive ones are supported by the inexpensive ones, and as a result, everyone is covered, and the costs for everyone go down.
If you screw up that balance, and have (say) private industry insuring all the cheap people, then there's room for huge profits - and the system starts to fail for the unlucky SOB covering the expensive ones.
The US people are the unlucky SOB covering the expensive ones in our current system, while private industry gets to profit happily on the cheap group.
ridgerunner5Apr 30, 2011
What we need is tort reform to slap down frivolous lawsuits, which costs doctors and hospitals less money, which then costs the consumer less money.
grammerpantsApr 30, 2011
You actually believe that?
ridgerunner5Apr 30, 2011
Yeah. It makes sense. Stop frivolous lawsuits, allow importation of foreign medicinal drugs, and clamp down on theft. Will go a long ways to make healthcare cheaper.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
mortventApr 30, 2011
Or you could give hospitals the right to go after those that walk into the ER and make it clear that they are not going to pay for non-life threatening injuries
No turning away emergency patients, but bob with the sniffles can go elsewhere.
You are not paying for your treatments, but also the treatments of all the free loaders with no insurance and no intent on paying for treatment. Those costs have to be covered.
ridgerunner5Apr 30, 2011
The problem is, how do you know that it's just the sniffles, and that is not a symptom of a larger, more dangerous problem?
mortventApr 30, 2011
If you walk into an ER it needs to be an emergency, not the first stages of a cold.
There are clinics for non-emergency treatments such as tests to determine if you are needing more care
But they can turn you away if you refuse to pay. Where you can walk into the ER and say my nose is stuffy but I'm not going to pay. And they have to run all the tests, treat you and then pass the costs on to the other visitors.
Why else do you think it costs so much for honest folks? Cause you're paying for the free loaders too
drmangrumApr 30, 2011
And suppose they turn away someone with a runny nose, cough, sneeze, fatigue, and a slight fever -- all signs of the common cold. However, those are also the sign of the flu, which can be life threatening.
The reason why hospitals don't turn people away until they're fully diagnosed is because the families of that person will sue the hospital and attending doctors and nurses for discrimination or malpractice.
The problem isn't that people go to the ER for treatment, the problem is that for some reason, getting a doctor to diagnose you in the ER is far, FAR more expensive than a doctor diagnosing you in a doctors office. Would you like to know that reason? Malpractice insurance for ER doctors and trauma surgeons is FAR more expensive than malpractice insurance for other health care professionals. I've heard of trauma surgeons paying upwards of $3000 a month just to have the insurance. The yearly cost for just insurance is more than many people earn in a year.
lordharvestApr 30, 2011
The malpractice insurance is nothing compared to the costs they have to eat due to not being able to tell folks like my idiot co-workers go to the clinic.
There is a clinic here that charges a flat $50 a visit + lab fees if needed. If you don't pay they don't see you. They can do everything including prescribe medicine.
But instead they go to the ER because they don't got to pay, and can tell the nurse flat out they will not be paying.
And what happens, they get seen. And the hospital just adds it to their write offs.. which they can only claim so much on at the end of the year, the rest gets passed on to folks that will pay.
It's not just about being able to pay, but also people know how to use a broken system. Hence the fact they need the insurance as well.
yibbutkeenApr 30, 2011
A family friend retired as an ob/gyn in the late 1970s, after his malpractice insurance cost passed the $100k/year mark (keep in mind at the time a new Ferrari or Porsche was under $30k). It is a significant part of the problem.
However the bigger part is the government. When they decide "ok, we'll increase spending on medical by 17%. For some strange reason, the cost of medical care suddenly rises 17%.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
laurahoustonApr 30, 2011
google "DES" the drug, and see what that drug did to many woman and their kids. a ob/gyn. was not the Doctor to be in the 70s especially once your insurance was paying out all over the place.
Even today working on woman and their babies,so very many 'actual medical mistakes' can occur. I bet an obgyn has one of the highest insurance malpractice rates of all Doctors. I'm not sure about that.
yibbutkeenMay 1, 2011
Exactly. But he loved doing that part of the job. It really hurt him to have to give up delivering babies. But that was exactly the cause.
laurahoustonApr 30, 2011
what frivolous 'lawsuits' against Doctors? How does that have anything to do with 'for profit' health insurance corporations? and for profit drug companies?
ridgerunner5Apr 30, 2011
Clearly you cannot understand how economies are linked together.
laurahoustonApr 30, 2011
well sure some of the drug companies are linked with 'for profit' insurance and some of the drug companies give 'kick backs or perks' to Doctors. after all more 'sales' mean more profits.
In no way do I think most Doctors are at fault for high health costs..drug sellers have traditionally given nice percs. and they have plenty of massive profits to give percs.
By the way, did you know you can get life insurance on anyone? Its a pretty good deal to insure 1,000 employees and sometimes you get a decent payout. ask your employee heath plan provider....
novenatorApr 30, 2011Submitter
Tort reform would save less than 1% per year. http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_39/b4148030880703.htm
laurahoustonMay 1, 2011
1 percent here, one percent there it can all add up.
novenatorMay 1, 2011Submitter
True, but the lying cons always try to present this as the miracle plan that will fix everything, and it won't even come close. They sometimes try that "compete across state lines" crap too, conveniently ignoring how bad that worked out for credit card companies. Pimping themselves out to big corporations seems to be viagra for cons.
spectecjrMay 1, 2011
You were apparently asleep during the healthcare reform debates. Doing that would only change healthcare costs by 2%.
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/106xx/doc10641/10-09-Tort_Reform.pdf
"CBO estimates that the direct costs that providers will incur in 2009 for medical malpractice liability—which consist of malpractice insurance premiums together with settlements, awards, and administrative costs not covered by insurance—will total approximately $35 billion, or about 2 percent of total health care expenditures. Therefore, Honorable Orrin G. Hatch
lowering premiums for medical liability insurance by 10 percent would reduce total national health care expenditures by about 0.2 percent."
jefftsApr 30, 2011
"In 1960, we spent less than 5 percent of the gross domestic product on health care, and all but a small number of working-age Americans had access to care. "
And what happened after 1960? Medicare, Medicaid and the government mandating the creation of HMOs. When government steps in, costs increase and accessibility goes down.
grammerpantsApr 30, 2011
In America that's what happens, in other countries costs go down, way down.
circeherbivoraApr 30, 2011
Access to health care? How do you define that? In the 1950's the price of hospitalization DOUBLED and it kept going up. The elderly and the indigent did not have access to health care, and this was a tremendous social concern. That's why those programs were implemented.
Also, that 6% cost is a little confusing. I think these numbers put it more in perspective: "In the 1960s, only 20% of health care costs were paid by the government. by 2000, it has risen to 45.2%." Source: http://careystudents.com/hba/news/welcome_healthcare_business_association
Here is an example of what the LACK of a safety net can lead to:
"I am 80 years old and for 10 years I have been living on a bare nothing,
two meals a day, one egg, a soup, because I want to be independent.
I am of Scotch ancestry, my father fought in the Civil War to the end of
the war, therefore, I have it in my blood to be independent and my dignity
would not let me go down and be on welfare. And I worked so hard that I have pernicious anemia, $9.95 for a little bottle of liquid for shots, wholesale, I couldn't
pay for it (Subcommittee on Problems of the Aged and Aging of the Committee
of Labor and Public Welfare, 1959; Corning, 1969)."
That was a retired school teacher. You really think that the creation of Medicare and Medicaid was some nefarious plot to...what? Raise the costs of health care?
yibbutkeenApr 30, 2011
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Government programs take on a life of their own. Eventually the bureaucracy takes over so that the original intention has become some side detail. It becomes a jobs program for government workers.
There has to be a happy medium, where those who need to be protected are, but the deadbeats can't pile on - either as recipients or as government employees. Sadly I have no idea how to accomplish this.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
jefftsApr 30, 2011
"I am 80 years old and for 10 years I have been living on a bare nothing,
two meals a day, one egg, a soup, because I want to be independent.
I am of Scotch ancestry, my father fought in the Civil War to the end of
the war, therefore, I have it in my blood to be independent and my dignity
would not let me go down and be on welfare. And I worked so hard that I have pernicious anemia, $9.95 for a little bottle of liquid for shots, wholesale, I couldn't pay for it (Subcommittee on Problems of the Aged and Aging of the Committee of Labor and Public Welfare, 1959; Corning, 1969)."
I've searched and searched for the individual in question in the above quote and yet I can find nowhere the name of this teacher. As far as I'm concerned, it is just another of the many anecdotal stories that both Democrats and Republicans both use to pull the heart strings of the populace.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
circeherbivoraApr 30, 2011
Okay, so I'm going to see if I can find the complete record of the Congressional Hearing that occurred in 1959. But honestly...you think the quote is imaginary? I pulled it from a pretty neutral source.
circeherbivoraApr 30, 2011
I'm having no luck online- the source is consistently quoted from a 1969 book by Rosemary Stevens and Peter Corning about the evolution of Welfare and a case study on Medicare. I've found two articles that appear to come tantalizingly close to the article and MAY contain some reference to the speaker, but they are both paid articles. I'm tempted to call the law library to see if they'll look it up, but A) its Saturday and B) This is just an online debate and not really worth their time.
Sorry, I guess if you're just going to assume that this is all a fabrication, there's nothing I can do about it. Personally, I see no reason to disbelieve that quote, given the numerous neutral sources in which I found it.
If I were going to attack my assertions I'd have taken a different tack.
jefftsMay 1, 2011
I thank you for the effort and wish more people would make such efforts. I'm just looking at things from both a legal standpoint and a political standpoint.
In the court of law, such a quote would be dismissed since there, as of yet, no provable source which makes it anecdotal. And if a Republican, Libertarian or Conservative were to use a similar quote where the author couldn't be verified, it'd be buried into oblivion.
I came across several websites in which that quote was referenced. But no actual author was ever credited.
circeherbivoraMay 1, 2011
Well, in congress its pretty traditional to parade lots of people through to say how pending legislation might affect them, positively or negatively.
And actually, there's the weakness of the argument too. You can ALWAYS find somebody who will embody the ills that your legislation will address, or the very person(s) that the laws may harm. I liked the quote because it put a "human" face to what we were discussing, but it was, after all, only ONE human. And sadly, a human I can't verify. (If it were a weekday.... I might have bugged the law library though, they actually enjoy a challenge.)
jefftsMay 1, 2011
"Well, in congress its pretty traditional to parade lots of people through to say how pending legislation might affect them, positively or negatively."
And that is part of the problem no matter which party it is. When you drag emotional stories into an argument, it can cause people to make irrational decisions that don't take into account the law of unintended consequences. It can be a powerful technique but it also has its downfalls.
A good example is the medical profession. It used to be that doctors would offer care for little or no charge for those patients who couldn't afford it. Once government became involved, for whatever reason, that practice went by the wayside.
monvalleyApr 30, 2011
So are all prices; gas, food, household goods, etc. Just wait, obama is going to make jimmy carter's inflation look like a mole hill compared to what is coming. Even you liberals didn't like it back then and now you pray to the guy that's bringing it back. Good luck! Guys like me will survive and do OK but those that are dependent, like most liberals will suffer the most.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
laurahoustonMay 1, 2011
How does a Pres make gas and food cost more?
monvalleyMay 1, 2011
By excessive government spending; remember the carter years. Also by insane ethanol policies that eat up food for fuel.
novenatorMay 5, 2011Submitter
You do know that Carter spent far less than Reagan, right? The national debt was also being reduced during the Carter administration, then TRIPLED under Reagan.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
ShovelbabyMay 1, 2011
Through excessive spending and increasing the money supply (quantative easing) to try to get out of the debt hole. It was all predicted and what people have been warning about for a couple of years:
http://thehill.com/opinion/columnists/dick-morris/4853-coming-next-year-obamas-inflation
http://www.blanchardonline.com/investing-news-blog/econ.php?article=1346
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/08/inflation_the_last_gasp_of_the.html
hannitycloneMay 2, 2011
America spends much more for less on everything. Education, for example.
millionairetaiMay 2, 2011
good
Closed AccountApr 30, 2011
same fate as the brits had last year
tkumarrApr 30, 2011
but they have to spend this money for their citizens, bcoz Health is Wealth !!
barackalypseApr 30, 2011
Why is it when we're talking about education at public schools, the liberals are always pointing out how much more other nations spend, but when we're talking about an area they want more Government control it, its suddenly a bad thing when we outspend the rest of the World. The simple fact is, our care is better, go look at cancer survival rates in all the Countries in Europe that spend less than us and compare to the survival rates here.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
gianpoApr 30, 2011
It's not necessarily bad that we spend more the problem is we spend more for worse care.
odkinApr 30, 2011
Wrong. We spend more for MORE care. Socialized medicine countries just write you off when you become expensive.
Further we spend a LOT discovering the medicinces and inventing the machines that other countries do not.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
laurahoustonApr 30, 2011
when my english friends mom got cancer there was no worry about if they had insurance or if insurance would pay. Or if they would have to strip out savings and sell their home to pay.
The cancer was caught early due to that countries wellness exams everyone has a right too.
There is a treatment plan in place,oversite by her personal Dr., she got treated and was thankfully 'cured'.
None of this american crap- "for profit" insurance corporation middlemen.
barackalypseApr 30, 2011
Argue all you want, survival rates don't lie. We pay more, we live longer:
"Great Britain, known for its 50-year-old government-run, universal health care system, fares worse than the European average:"
"The United States has survival rates of 90 percent or higher for five cancers (skin melanoma, breast, prostate, thyroid and testicular), but there is only one cancer for which the European survival rate reaches 90 percent (testicular)."
"Furthermore, the Lancet Oncology study found that lung cancer patients in the United States have the best chance of surviving five years — about 16 percent — whereas patients in Great Britain have only an 8 percent chance, which is lower than the European average of 11 percent. "
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba596Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
laurahoustonApr 30, 2011
have to answer you a second time because your facts are skewed.
America doesn't know how many people have died of cancer because the only ones known are people who had *health care* of some type.
In countries where everyone has health care -then cancer survival rates can be measured and of course will be lower. cancer sucks and kills a lot of people.
barackalypseApr 30, 2011
Go read up on the studies. Our cancer treatment is better than Europe.
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba596
odkinApr 30, 2011
You are an idiot. Everyone in America "has healthcare". The question is who pays for it. The three options are 1) an insurance company (normal working people), 2) the government (retired and welfare) or 3) the patient (the indigent, chronic dependents, the young who don't want to bother with insurance, illegal aliens, etc).
The problem is all the people in category 2 and 3 think the suckers in category 1 need to pick up their bills.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
laurahoustonApr 30, 2011
no -everyone in america has a right to crawl into an emergency room. Thats it, they may get treated or they may die waiting.
plenty of Americans die who never saw a doctor, local dead body person collects them, shoves them in the ground or burns them and no one knows what they died from. natural causes covers a lot and is not included in any american stats.
canada has decent health care system aswell.
odkinMay 1, 2011
Wrong everyone in America has a right to pay cash and see a doctor anytime they think it's important. And they'll be seen right away. Unlike England and Canada, where you have the right to beg the government to let you see a "free" government doctor, eventually.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
laurahoustonMay 1, 2011
Canada has a cash system too, they bring in medical tourists. USA also gets some cash paying,medical treatment foreigners.
http://www.findprivateclinics.ca/resources/general/medical-tourism.php
Some people even travel to china for medical stem cell treatments.
no the people of canada don't beg for treatment., Go to the canada medical plan site and see, they have a good system in place, emergencies are treated right away.
spectecjrMay 1, 2011
Don't know where you go for your medical treatment, but my GP asks you to make an appointment, unless it's immediately life threatening, in which case you go to the emergency room.
This "Right away" bulls**t is just that - bulls**t.