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scottmossFeb 26, 2011
Hey the problem is that even I have taken many tests and KNEW I had the right answer (even proved it after the fact) but got it wrong.... He who has the gold.... rules! I disagreed vehemently with a business law teacher (I was right) on the second day of class. I was told not to come back. Doesn't matter.
amaoicanFeb 26, 2011
If he had marked a question right that should have been marked wrong would you have fought so hard to get it corrected?
I had a teacher in Jr College who explained this idea really well, but basically... there is some grade that you theoretically deserve in your class (say 88.233259303495345...) - the true value. But like any measurement you can't know the true value - there is uncertainty.
So on the one hand, you might say you deserved more points because you got the question right, but on the other hand, perhaps the very inclusion of that particular question was wrong in the first place.
The best test is the one that manages to return a good grade distribution (e.g. average=75, stdev=15) without showing racial, ethnic or gender bias (e.g. for white men the avg=82, for black men avg=68). Even more ideally, you want a test where every question is that way - a good bell shaped curve that doesn't discriminate by race, gender, etc.
kegillFeb 26, 2011
Please show the research to justify a normal distribution for grades in a class. Such an assumption (which I do not agree with) would have as many people failing as getting an A. Normal distributions require LARGE populations -- much larger than a seminar or even class of 200.
The best multiple choice tests have clear language, are not confusing and are designed to measure something for which the form is well-suited. They avoid trick questions (or answers). There is only one correct answer - not a "best" answer. See http://www.dfcb.org/How_to_Write_Effective_Multiple-Choice_Test_Problems_Version_3.0_July08.pdf
amaoicanFeb 26, 2011
kegill, I ran into several professors who thought exactly this - that As should be as rare as Fs. But it's not necessarily true that a normal distribution would have to yield equal numbers of As as Fs.
For example, if we take a traditional grading system (lowers thresholds: A:90,B:80,C:70,D:60) and define the average and standard deviation as 75 and 15, then equal numbers should get over 90 and under 60. If you define them as 80 and 10 then the number of As would approximate the number of Ds with Fs being reserved for outliers.
FYI: I didn't think my comment had posted earlier and probably would have deleted it because it is not a good, clear comment.
hillsfarFeb 26, 2011
Really? A's should be as rare as F's?
Look, if it's a class on how to boil water or tie one's shoelaces, there's no "A". There's pass-fail.
And if it's a class on how to add and subtract two-digit numbers, there likely amongst math majors would be 99 A's out of 100.
amaoicanFeb 26, 2011
"And if it's a class on how to add and subtract two-digit numbers, there likely amongst math majors would be 99 A's out of 100."
A college student majoring in math shouldn't be taking that class in the first place. The students for whom the class would be appropriate would likely have an approximately normal distribution of expertise on the matter.
hillsfarFeb 28, 2011
An excellent teacher or a group of exceptional students or both can do it.
Stand and Deliver!
amaoicanFeb 26, 2011
Also, especially for smaller classes I recommend standardizing the exam (giving the same exam every term) so that the grade distribution can be analyzed across all the groups rather than within one group, especially for curving purposes.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
rgb86Feb 26, 2011
The problem with that, though, is that students tend to find out pretty quickly if a professor never alters their tests, which greatly increases the ease and likelihood of cheating. So, where you'd be trying standardize across years, you'd actually be causing an increase in the average grade as time progresses.
amaoicanFeb 26, 2011
That's a very good point, assuming the same professor used the same test year after year. You could have numerous exams (dozens or even hundreds) that get passed around a university or network of universities or what not.
Alternatively you could recollect all exam papers after letting the students view their results. I had a teacher who did that.
rgb86Feb 26, 2011
That would help, but if students were aware beforehand that a professor re-uses exams, but collects them, it would be a fairly trivial task to snap a few photos with a camera phone and then take some quick notes on correct answers.
amaoicanFeb 26, 2011
Yes, in a large class that would be a huge risk. The class in question was ~12 students at the start and ~6 at the end. It's a little harder to get away with things in that environment.
tekaninFeb 27, 2011
Normal distributions do not require large populations, either the process is normally distributed or it is not.
jhourcleFeb 26, 2011
I seem to recall that someone had found that one of the companies selling study materials for the citizenship test was wrong; and I don't mean it had the 'official answer', it was a case of if you give their answer, it'll be marked wrong on the test. (this was before the 2008 change)
ferretmanFeb 26, 2011
Heh....poor public schools would be my guess. The HS test just illustrate poor teaching.
I've aced every one of these kinds of tests. My school was a little country elementary school and those teachers made sure you *learned*...we were always acing the "big town" school kids in competitions and such.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
gossumxFeb 26, 2011
Well that's good. Now run along and enjoy your life being deprived of proper social skills.
peppermintpigFeb 26, 2011
Are you suggesting your response is attributable to "proper social skills"?
wizenedFeb 26, 2011
Two things I've learned about test taking, regardless of the test or where I've taken it.
1. Multiple choice questions are a notoriously poor but efficient way to conduct a test, and are not only prone to interpretation but outright error. Therefore, choose that answer that is MOST correct. Sometimes that requires greater understanding than picking the right one from a list.
2. Understand who the test was written for. I doubt if the target demographic was "Judge Richard Posner, the constitutional scholar who serves on the U.S. Court of Appeals in Chicago" or even an immigration lawyer. It's probably written for the layperson, to ensure they have the same understanding that comes out of a solid 8th Civics/Government class. ie. rule of law; 'no person is above the law' or 'a system that protects it's citizens from abuse by it's government'. I'm sure either of the two aforementioned would start of with "Well..........".
I think the best advice to ANY test taker is to study and KISS. (Unless you're taking a test on tax laws, then you should .... oh never mind.)
penglustFeb 28, 2011
Every question to be on the test is in a booklet to be learned from. They could get it right. Instead the questions are there to make a point about what the government wants to say. The "rule of law" question is a good example.
Either its right or it wrong. The target audience should not be relevant.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
penglustFeb 28, 2011
Every question to be on the test is in a booklet to be learned from. They could get it right. Instead the questions are there to make a point about what the government wants to say. The "rule of law" question is a good example.
Either its right or it wrong. The target audience should not be relevant.
wizenedFeb 28, 2011
Agree and kinda disagree. Your are right in that it is either right or wrong (the answer from the book). And you are right, that the answer in the book is what the government wants you to understand about that topic, and the 'rule of law' question is a great example. However, that by definition makes the audience relevant. The problem, in my opinion, is the author polled a 'Judge friend' of his for an answer to the question. Kinda like a HS student commenting to a physicist that it's cool how electrons orbit the nucleus similar to the planets around the sun, and the PhD. saying 'that's not true, the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle says - loosely - that you can't know with certainty both where an electron is and where it's going next, and that makes it impossible to plot an orbit for an electron around a nucleus.' Is this a big problem? Not if the kid uses HIS BOOK and plots the 1s, 2s, 2p as taught... which will give him the understanding to someday figure out the the egghead was talking about:-)
alanocuFeb 26, 2011
What do you expect? INS (the government)....do you honestly believe that government officials could even past the citizenship test? Let alone administer one with correct data?
Please.
Those morons couldn't successfully sharpen a pencil.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
opticwindFeb 26, 2011
"The Vice President isn't a member of the Cabinet because members of the Cabinet can not be elected."
a, the VP is indirectly elected and has historically always been a part of the Cabinet.
and b,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/cabinet
Closed AccountFeb 26, 2011
Read the article.
Closed AccountFeb 26, 2011
Read the article.
Closed AccountFeb 26, 2011
Read the article.
dustbunny52Feb 26, 2011
This does not match up with my readings in history. John Adams tried to be a contributing member of George Washington's cabinet and he was basically shown the door. John Adams was trying to define the job just as you describe. Thomas Jefferson was VP for John Adams and he hardly set foot in Washington DC after the election. Read "A Team of Rivals", a book on Lincoln's interactions with his cabinet, there is no mention of Harry Hamlin. The first time I had heard of a president wanting to include the input from the VP was Bill Clinton asking Al Gore. He made a big deal of it at the time. He said he wanted to break the traditions of the past. Even the cabinet posts have always been fluid so that the advice for the president could change with need of the times. A VP does not necessarily have any area of expertise and his advice was not always welcome.
opticwindFeb 26, 2011
This guy should research what his "friends/scholars" say.
1. The Vice President is a member of the Cabinet.
2. The Supremacy Clause does not grant treaties and federal lies as equal to the Constitution. The Article states:
"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding."
Both laws and treaties are formed through the Constitution, not independent of it on an equal layer of government.
3. "Who makes the federal laws?"
Well it's damn sure not the President. The question isn't who signs onto the bill or law, it's who *makes* it. The President doesn't make it. He might veto or get some editing in there, but he doesn't make it.
4. The flag was adopted after the states were established. But the stripes were there to *represent* the original colonies, with new states being stars. Wrong again.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
phosphodysonFeb 26, 2011
The supremacy clause has nothing to do with "layers of government" or how laws and treaties are formed. It merely indicates that Federal Law (no matter what its origin, either through Treaty, enacted statutes, or the Constitution) preempts any other state law.
Although Congress has the sole official power to originiate and pass new laws, one of the roles of the President is to be the chief legislator. Although he cannot enact laws directly, he will often suggest to Congress to enact certain laws as well as lay down the legislative framework for a given term. This is actually stated in the Constitution, as the President is to give Congress from time to time a State of the Union, where he often outlines the legislative agenda for the year.
Furthermore, the State and Federal Courts will often interpret the laws passed in the form of cases they decide upon. Therefore, in reality, all three branches of the government "makes" Federal Law.
Odoi12chrisFeb 26, 2011
My bro had to pass through it thanks to the Lord made it.
Closed AccountFeb 26, 2011
Slate: Why do they think people still read them?
starfishsystemsFeb 26, 2011
"Just give the official answer. You'll do fine."
bloodboilerFeb 26, 2011
Memorize given answers to 100 questions, do not attempt to verify them, and be willing to state them as facts even if you know they are wrong.
What a great way to take in new citizens. What you really want from a would be citizens is unquestioning obedience and lip service. :-)
Interesting how being a current communists might become an issue, but being former of current a Nazi is fine as long as you became one after May 8 1945.
I also like how the test does not exclude possibility of time travel.
jimv1983Feb 26, 2011
The Vice President is in the Cabinet but he is not elected.
gkiltzFeb 27, 2011
They don't teach civics anymore.
Closed AccountFeb 27, 2011
mini burgers and sam adams....America.