Users who Dugg This
Away for a while
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Phil Perspective
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MikeyMicron
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AngelWardriver
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Boss This!
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Russ Smith
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dirtyfriesJul 27, 2011
Back to piracy
dcjoedogv2Jul 27, 2011
sadly the movie companies charging crazy prices for streaming rights don't seem to understand that people go to places like netflix to be legal, but if you price them out of a legal option they could always go back to torrenting movies.
Closed AccountJul 27, 2011
Sadly Netflix doesn't realize that being COMPLETELY dependent on competitors to allow you to use them is a s**tty business plan.
norman619Jul 27, 2011
You are 100% correct when it comes to their streaming service. It's sad how pointing out this ugly fact gets you dugg down.
darthseussJul 27, 2011
And the selection they offer with streaming is pretty pathetic too.
technopunditJul 27, 2011
Yah. It's an exercise in compromise. It pretty-much sucks.
anomaly100Jul 27, 2011
He may be getting Dugg down for consistently calling others, "worthless f**ks." People remember, then don't bother reading whatever he has to say.
norman619Jul 27, 2011
That's pretty sad. You should be dugg down based on the comment not past bad behavior.
mtownJul 28, 2011
@norman
Speaking of being dug down based on the quality of the comment...
markusfarkusJul 27, 2011
So you're suggesting that instead of having one place to rent discs and stream movies, the better model would be for each content provider to have their own incompatible service to view movies and television shows with varying prices and device support?
norman619Jul 27, 2011
You clearly have no idea what we are talking about. The ISP's/Cable comapnies OWN the distribution networks Netflix depends on to deliver their streaming service. They are also using their bandwidth. So they are depending on access to their competition's networks.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
markusfarkusJul 27, 2011
I didn't infer from backuy's comment that he was talking about ISP's. As a reply to a comment about the content providers it seemed as though he was also commenting about the content providers, not the ISP's.
You're right. Streaming services are dependent on the ISP's. So now you're suggesting that no streaming service is good business model except the ones sponsored by the ISP's.
norman619Jul 27, 2011
markus:
Nope. I'm saying streaming business is not a great business to expect much growth.
agmlauncherJul 27, 2011
What choice do they have? The FCC is worthless so it allows conflicts of interest to exist. When ISPs and Cable providers are one in the same thing due to lack of government regulation, you literally have no choice.
Once could argue that any web company or mobile device/OS maker is dependent on competitors. Comcast has its own homepage and search portal as well as video portal. If it wanted to, it could either outright block all Google services and force its customers to use its own, or it could charge Google for the services people use Comcast's lines to access (even though that's exactly why Comcast's customers are paying Comcast, but whatever....), or Comcast could simply charge its customers more to access "premium" web services like Google.
Meanwhile AT&T and Verizon could release their own phone operating systems like its rumored they want to, and if they wanted to stop carrying Android altogether, they could.
And what about retail/supermarkets? They always carry their own copycat versions of brand name products. So one could argue that those name brand products are also dependent on their competitors for distribution, yet it works just fine. Why is Netflix a s**tty business model but the situation I just described, not?
norman619Jul 27, 2011
That's not the point. The point is that their streaming business model is horrible. It depends on unrestricted access to networks owned by their competition who are doing far more than just streaming video. too bad municipal WiFi hasn't taken off. That would be an ideal distribution option for businesses like Netflix.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
agmlauncherJul 27, 2011
"It depends on unrestricted access to networks owned by their competition"
And General Mills depends on grocery store distribution even though those same grocery stores are selling their own version of the same thing.
General Mills is dependent on its competitors. Its competitors are its distribution channels. Yet that business model seems to work.
norman619Jul 27, 2011
agmlauncher:
Na dude. You know anything about network management? I do. I do it for a living. Netflix streaming using networks they don't own isn't anything like some business using the USPS or FedEx to distribute their goods. What Netflix is doing is like setting up shop in a lot behind YOUR home which has no direct access to the street so they have to have their customers use YOUR driveway to access their business. At some point it will become a problem as their business becomes more popular and you are going to have to restrict the amount of traffic through YOUR property.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
netshark86Jul 28, 2011
@norman619
Your analogy only holds if those customers are not paying to walk across your driveway... they are paying, and paying Monthly for access to your driveway. In fact they are paying more for less access to your driveway than others people do in most other countries.
Also netflix is paying for bandwidth... they pay amazon and amazon is paying for network access to the backbone.
The fact is that everybody pays for the network. ISP's charge their customers to get access to their network. Those ISP's pay to connect to backbone providers or to tier3 providers... those providers pay to connect to the backbone, and on top of that the end points are paying or charging for the streamed content. Nobody is getting screwed in this model... Only there are whiners who say they are charging their customers for the network but they don't like how much is being used. Thats BS. Their network is broken, so fix it or charge less or get out of the network business.
This is precisely why net neutrality is an absolute must. Paying for the pipe should guarantee unfettered access.
norman619Jul 27, 2011
I would buy more DVD's than I do now if they would accept my movie ticket stub as a discount on the price of new DVD releases.
norman619Jul 27, 2011
You one of those pirates I see on the subway selling bootleg copies of movies? or did you mean back to downloading? Pirating is the selling of bootlegs not the simple act of downloading for your own consumption.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
technopunditJul 27, 2011
Service 2.5 million less subscribers and still make more money. Pretty smart. Let the executive bonuses roll!
mrteflonJul 28, 2011
This sums it up perfectly!
http://imgur.com/iSVRl
onebourbonJul 27, 2011
When you increase a product more than 10%, you must be prepared for outraged customers, and ones that will walk.
daimposterJul 27, 2011
That's why we rarely ever reach double figures in increase costs at my place of work unless it's extremely needed. People take notice of double digit % increase...they don't take as much notice for 5%.
ieatskunkJul 27, 2011
Oh I was mad too. Then I saw they added all Star Trek series except for DS9 to streaming. SMART MOVE NETFLIX.
wolfingJul 27, 2011
DS9 comes in October 15 or something I think. Must be some sort of licensing problem
ieatskunkJul 28, 2011
Sweet, thanks for the info.
mccartybaJul 27, 2011
I keep seeing everyone say they're gonna drop Netflix and I can see why. But then I get on it and find they've added 3 or 4 movies and a new show that I love every week. Then again, I only stream so it isn't costing me a whole lot.
witnessxJul 27, 2011
I mostly stream, and the few discs I have sent to me usually sits for a good week on average. In a month, I may go through about 4-5 discs. Now that they're changing their plan, I'll probably pick stream only, but not before I cancel for a few months. I guess I feel the need to punish them for this. Who knows, maybe I won't miss it, and not come back.
devnulldoodJul 27, 2011
I actually cancelled my subscription simply because the selection for streaming wasn't worth the price hike. So basically I'm trying to make a statement.
publiclurkerJul 27, 2011
And if you only stream, the prices went down. Nobody seems to realize that they couldn't make money on the extra two bucks they were charging for physical media, especially when the content providers are planning on jacking up their fees by an order of magnitude.
inquebissJul 28, 2011
netflix original business model was shipping physical media, and the streaming option was later added as a bonus. Later on, they made a streaming only option for the same price as the lowest dvd plan ($7.99) and those that wanted to keep their dvd plan had to pay $9.99. The price just keeps going up, and this latest case is pretty severe. I had to drop, because I can just go rent at a redbox for cheaper.
4Herp2Derp0Jul 27, 2011
The price hike will not make me leave Netflix but their new layout is horrible.
redstringJul 27, 2011
I may very well be one of them.
jared00Jul 27, 2011
I've also been thinking of dropping them.
ajajadudeJul 27, 2011
I'm going to at least drop the DVD portion of my subscription. And it's been a few weeks since I've even fired up the streaming service, so I'm considering if I even need that.
jhw539Jul 27, 2011
While you're at it, you should also look at reducing your phone plan. Check if there is a cheaper internet service provider (cable and FiOs both serve my house and fight each other with 1-year deals). Look at your credit card bill and evaluate every recurring charge on there. (Well lookie there, why the hell am I still a monthly subscriber to Boingo hot spot access?)
Seriously, this is not a snarky post. Most people sign up for monthly charges and keep them just by inertia. If you find that you're not really using your current NetFlix subscription, what other wallet drains do you have? Invest the time and energy now to pare them all down and your savings will thank you.
mtownJul 28, 2011
Now that I think about it, i COULD make bathing optional if i use enough deodorant... So long, Water Utilities bill!
inquebissJul 28, 2011
I dropped a week after I got that email, once I received confirmation that my last dvd had been shipped back.
slantyeyedJul 27, 2011
i wonder what percentage of customers are on the 1 DVD / unlimited streaming plan? I'm on the 4 DVD's / BR's out per month plus streaming and only saw a $1.99 increase in my plan . . .
fitzal77Jul 27, 2011
A lot. I think 3-at-a-time was their standard subscription, but they've been gradually adjusting the prices to entice people to make the jump from 3 to 2, then from 2 to 1. They've been pushing the 1-at-a-time, as of late, and now they're forcing those people to choose. I think they've had streaming-only as the goal all along.
zero123Jul 27, 2011
yep. I'm gonna cut my service. I only stream video.
hangglideJul 27, 2011
If you only stream why would you cut your service? Your cost just went down by $2. It is only if you want to keep both streaming and DVD that your cost will go up.
zero123Jul 27, 2011
that's what I meant by cutting my service. dropping dvd's
fitzal77Jul 27, 2011
That's exactly what they want. They're saving money by not sending you any DVDs, and they're further down the road to being a streaming-only company.
zero123Jul 27, 2011
The market's going to determine how the company evolves its service. Their streaming service is a huge success. If the majority of consumers just want to stream video, and not the dvd's, then their company needs to change its model. Hopefully their streaming service will take advantage of its popularity and begin providing more recent/original content.
fitzal77Jul 27, 2011
That will only happen without huge rate increases if Hollywood allows it. Right now it's not looking so great.
slantyeyedJul 27, 2011
yes, more bandwidth and movies available for me!
dcjoedogv2Jul 27, 2011
well I didn't drop them but I killed my 1 DVD out at a time portion of my service, so it saved me some money and I got HULU Plus. at the old rate 2.5 millions people is 25 million a month, and 300 million a year lost because of this rise, I hope it was worth it.
hangglideJul 27, 2011
It might be worth it if they don't have to mail out all those DVD's.
jhw539Jul 27, 2011
I will be dropping DVD by mail, but keeping the streaming service. The price went up, so I'm re-evaluating the value. The streaming service is still a major win, a bargin at twice the price that has allowed me to drop cable entirely. The DVD by mail does not pencil out; I watch on average 2 DVDs a month, simple math says I'm better off renting or buying them (Amazon instant watch or iTunes).
I don't get the outrage at Netflix. Do the math and decide if it is worth it to you at the new price point. Netflix is a service provider, not your best friend who you just caught screwing your spouse.
markusfarkusJul 27, 2011
Exactly.
I went through 12 blu-ray discs and about 11 hours of streaming content last month for $22. Where else am I going to get such a good deal?
fitzal77Jul 27, 2011
They have been very good to consumers in the past, so forgive us for treating Netflix like they should respect us. This major price hike after another rate increase earlier this year is quite a bit to handle. I want a reliable service without needing to reassess the cost-benefit ratio every few months.
Obviously we have to decide if it's worth it, but we also have to try to figure out whether they're going to raise their prices again in a few months or stop sending DVDs out as quickly to save money.
jhw539Jul 28, 2011
"we also have to try to figure out whether they're going to raise their prices again in a few months"
Actually, since there is no long term contract (and this raise has a 2 month warning) your really don't have to play predict the future. Unless you are looking at buying a Netflix box (like the Roku), there is no commitment of future cash stream. You can evaluate price increases as they come.
fitzal77Jul 28, 2011
As I said, I don't want to have to reevaluate my subscription 2 or 3 times per year. I chalk that up as a "cost" when trying to figure out now if I want it. The threat of ever-increasing prices on something you like is not an easy thing to ignore.
rotfoxJul 27, 2011
It's still a better deal than Blockbusters 5$ per movie rental back in the days.
Closed AccountJul 27, 2011
But not a better deal than Redbox. OR other streaming sites now.
rotfoxJul 27, 2011
Which is great, companies are starting to compete for the things that should matter to them again. Us the customers.
JustSayNoPartyJul 27, 2011
This is the way the 'free market' is supposed to work. To bad so many companies try to 'corner markets' to make sure it doesn't. Now, if I could find a good solution to drop cable.
markusfarkusJul 27, 2011
What other streaming sites?
publiclurkerJul 27, 2011
Redbox may be cheaper but the selection sucks. I only find something to rent out of them once a month or so.
charlotte_webJul 27, 2011
Just basic economic theory... raising prices means fewer customers. The only thing that really matters is maximizing profit, not maximizing your customer base. They could quadruple their customer base by giving away their service for free, but they'd be losing money hand over fist.
The challenge of any business is to find the sweet spot between price and demand, not to serve every possible customer.
frosty72Jul 27, 2011
So what?
Let's do the math.
Let's assume nobody is doing any of the more expensive packages and everyone was doing the $10 deal.
They have 25 million customers. That's $250 Million.
Let's say 2.5 million go away. That's a loss of $25 Million.
Now, the 22.5 million remaining customers all pay $16 - that's $360 Million, which means they're increasing revenue by $110 Million - and that's not taking into account the ones already doing he more expensive deals.
So those 2.5 million aren't all that important, quite frankly. Would it be better if they'd stay? Sure. Will them leaving destroy Netflix? No.
Worst case scenario, they wind up with fewer customers and the same revenue. That means fewer customers to mail DVDs to - which costs money - so they ultimately save money.
floorboardJul 27, 2011
It was the last straw for me. Never anything I want to watch - it's all "DVD only".
Cognitiv3Jul 27, 2011
they currently say they have "over 25 million members" so i'll bring that to an even 25 million. assuming everyone was on the 1 DVD plus streaming plan for 10 bucks, if the other 22.5 million subscribers who don't cancel their service choose to pay the new fee's on the most popular plan described above, netflix profits will increase to 359.5 Million PER MONTH. Compared to the 25 million a month loss from these supposed cancellations. If I were a greedy executive i would have probably made the decision to be an assh**e too seeing as it would make my company 109 Million more dollars per month, that number is after the loss of 2.5 million members.
Closed AccountJul 27, 2011
You are not factoring in both the increased costs, and the loss of NEW customers too.
NO business wants to see a 10% decrease in their sales.
Cognitiv3Jul 27, 2011
I'm by no means saying it was a good move, i just understand their rationale. for all we know this move was made specifically because they just spent a lot of money behind closed doors on getting licensing for current seasons like hulu/significantly more streaming series (with no ad's like hulu) and need to buffer their bank account for a bit until it's announced.
fitzal77Jul 27, 2011
Increased costs? They're not offering additional services, they're saving money by not sending DVDs to everyone they used to.
juliekidJul 28, 2011
My understanding is that the increased cost is going to come from the new licensing agreements with the movie companies that are required now that Netflix has accumulated so many online viewers.
publiclurkerJul 27, 2011
If that 10% are actually costing them money, most businesses would love to have them go elsewhere.
dusanmalJul 27, 2011
Netflix problem is not so much outright cancellation but service split. Vast majority both in person and online comment that they will chose one plan or the other. As indeed dominant fraction of population is now on 10$ or 11$ plans that means that after this price increase, dominant part of population will be on 8$ plan. 20-30% drop over that majority. Reasonable first approximation is that Netflix will drop amount of its income for about 25% from September on, when this change takes effect. I actually think that article overestimates amount of those who will outright quit - I don't think that will reach 10% and that part will probably balance well with increase in earnings over those who accept full price increase.
theaeneidJul 28, 2011
And then gain them all back times a hundred when people realize splitting up the service was a great idea and it's not all that f**king expensive anyway and stop being such a douche bag and just re-sign up because you all suck for complaining about an increase the cost of your crappy Starbucks coffee in the morning. So there.
mojonixonJul 28, 2011
It's interesting watching how consumer opinion changes about netflix, I feel alot of the problem is that they are pretty tight lipped about the inner workings of their business.
Maybe a bit more transparency would show the lengths you need to go to obtain licensing rights for streaming or dvd rental respectively. Netflix is successful but its going against the combined financial interests of the old studios- there are going to be plenty more setbacks as studios "defend" themselves.
It's a shame there is so much bashing of the watch instantly selection- people really need to look beyond the mainstream and experience some of the amazing movies/shows that are available. Watch instantly browsing screen for Roku/ps3/xbox is my biggest complaint, they keep switching away from the normal online setup and it just gets clunkier.
jasper45Jul 28, 2011
Loss of subscribers.. or majority of subscribers switching to streaming only...
either way the USPS is F*CKED..
they lose Netflix and they lose one of their last remaining postage paying companies.
jamfmanJul 27, 2011
Well I for one love netflix, especially the streaming stuff.
johnb41Jul 27, 2011
Sucks, but still WAY more affordable than Cable/Satellite. I don't see why so many people are outraged.
coollinuxguyJul 27, 2011
I am all for the company want to generate a bigger profit. The only thing that bothers me (and is the reason I am dropping both streaming and DVD) is the way they announced it. Getting an email stating that they are increasing the price without any ryme or reason or even any concern regarding their customers was an asnine decision from a marketing standpoint. I have been a member for a while and I have not visited the Pirate Bay or any torrent tracking sites since my membership, that is all about to change because I don't know that the company won't try to increase the plans again in the future, again with no concerns for their members.
dvddesignJul 27, 2011
It's giving me a grand opportunity to try out my hand at streaming media in the home through a NAS I'm putting together through piecemeal.
phenolicJul 28, 2011
I did this and it worked pretty well. I ended up using Boxee as the media client and was fairly pleased. I did have to buy a cheap gigabyte switch to get the video where I wanted it though.
JustSayNoPartyJul 27, 2011
OK, so if Netflix largely looses those subscribers who are used to getting movies and music for free or almost free, that may be OK. I don't see them as one of those Greedy companies just trying to screw us over. And, they don't have the market dominance to try that.
I've dropped the DVR Mailer and am all streaming. This new set-up works very well for me. And, we do need them to make 'enough money' to not disappear completely. Though, the offered movies suck. I almost never find the movie I want to see through streaming (redbox here I come).
Stevie_SleevesJul 27, 2011
Walmart is supposedly starting a streaming service with new movies the day they come out. Knowing how Walmart is it won't be long before they monopolize it.
tomt127Jul 27, 2011
No subscription service though. You will be charged for each movie.
JustSayNoPartyJul 27, 2011
Noooooooooooo. I refuse to support the Walmart business model.
tekladomagJul 28, 2011
Netflix users need to stop crying. It's not that much of an increase and you can still view unlimited streams. This is a way for Netflix members to transition over to streaming. I do think that Netflix needs to improve their stream selection if they want people to transition over.
sparhaxJul 27, 2011
Dropped mine. I didn't use the DVD or the Streaming much, but enough of each to make 12$ worth it (blue ray added in). Unfortunately I didn't use either service enough to justify the price separately.
You know, if they added in one free DVD rental per month to the streaming plan for 3$ extra I would be down.
frosty72Jul 28, 2011
Sorry to nitpick, but if it's $3 extra it's not free :-)
sparhaxJul 28, 2011
haha very true, but you know what I mean. One Dvd rental a month for x amount of dollars.
norman619Jul 27, 2011
How can they raise the rates when their streaming offering is pretty damn slim? I cancelled my account when I saw they weren't updating it much.
frosty72Jul 28, 2011
Because the overhead of maintaining the DVD mailing business is more expensive per customer than streaming - and doing both costs more money than just doing one, so this all makes perfect business sense.
Because of their expenses, in the end Netflix only had four choices. They could drop one service and not change the price, or they could raise the price and not change the service, or they could split the services to give the customer the choice of only paying for what they want if they only want one of the two. The fourth option was to change nothing and go broke. So to me it seems they made the best possible choice in their situation.
JonathonFishenatorJul 27, 2011
Dropping them myself.
I_Keeps_It_RealJul 27, 2011
I dropped them the second I got that unfortunate netflix emali.
casinobonusloverJul 27, 2011
Greed, Greed Greed
casinobonusloverJul 27, 2011
Greed, Greed Greed
kolop1Jul 27, 2011
The key word is could. Also, bgr.com. Need I say more?
parearauJul 27, 2011
Sounds like Netflix is getting greedy! I hope everyone who is subscribed dumps them!
forexforexmarkettradingJul 27, 2011
I would buy more DVD's than I do now if they would accept my movie ticket stub as a discount on the price of new DVD releases.
penglustJul 27, 2011
We find the streaming option is only used by the kids. They like the selection of sponge bob and such. The movie selection is just crap.
Since it seems obvious they are trying to move away from DVDs and that is where the selection is anyway we will be canceling the streaming portion. I hope this becomes a trend and pissed them off even more.
publiclurkerJul 27, 2011
They have a nice selection of older TV serials. Since I don't feel like paying $50+ a month for cable, I haven't seen most of these shows before.
startnetworkinJul 31, 2011
- Yikes. I won't be one of them! Totally worth it to me!
massivetatasJul 28, 2011
Crappy selection in streaming and pushing me over the Comcast bandwidth limit, yeah - that'll work!
10000lakesJul 28, 2011
I'm quitting Netflix before September 1st. Going Redbox only. See ya later Netflix!
surrealpeterJul 28, 2011
In Canada, Shaw Cable is now selling a streaming service for a single monthly price. With it you can watch as much as you want using an unlimited amount of data. If you just have their any of their regular internet packages and decide to use a service like Netflix you're handcuffed with really low bandwidth caps. I HATE SHAW, this just makes me even hate them more.
bryanminerJul 28, 2011
I am keeping the combo for now... they are on think ice
Billy_JackJul 28, 2011
I will be switching to the streaming only plan before the hike is scheduled to take place...I would get rid of Netflix altogether but the kid enjoys for the childrens movies...There isn't much for adults in the way of anything decent because they are either old movies that I have already seen or movies that I have already seen...I'll go to Redbox if I want to get a new release....
valynJul 27, 2011
Already cut my disc's, not sure if we are going to keep the streaming. We (4 of us) are already having problems keeping under 300 GB/mo. This would not only save us form the cost of netflix, but also cause less worry about over charges on bandwidth a the house. Thank god I don't have Comcast so the overcharge fees are not too bad...
vashzero1Jul 27, 2011
Per speculation. Netflix would save soooooooooo much in licensing fees if this were to happen. Being able to provide much better service to it's remaining customers while slowly regaining that supposed 15 percent back.
Also if 15 percent were to drop, which leaves approx.14 million subscribers. You multiply the 14 million by the 6 dollar increase leaves you a value of 84 million dollars the company would be making in extra fees. Take 84 million from 240 million, leaves you with lose of 156 million lose annually. This doesn't take into considering the economies of scale in this licensing agreements.
This isn't good, but it's far from the end of netflix this data suggests.