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cancerkittySep 22, 2010
Not enough, that's for sure.
wargalaSep 22, 2010
Speak for yourself.
beshirthappySep 22, 2010
It's definitely harder to save lately.
peeequalsnpSep 22, 2010
Part of the problem is that people are STARTING to save in this down economy, which makes it even harder to get anywhere with your savings. The thing that's missing (especially for those Keynesians out there) is that saving in the good time is not just to have all that money forever and leave it to your kids or to have large stock portfolios. The main point is to save so that you don't have to borrow or get into trouble when the bad times hit.
Saving now won't get us out of this mess any faster and it could be argued to not save during down times, but its a culture shift that needs to happen.... and spread to our federal government.
failepicsSep 22, 2010
43% of American families spend more than they earn? WTF is wrong with those people?
skidooerSep 22, 2010
Virtually everyone in college is spending more than they earn. It is not always bad to spend more than you earn. It is only a problem if it happens year after year, which the article did not indicate to be true of that group.
fitzfanSep 23, 2010
Skidooer is right, plus nearly everyone in retirement is spending more per year than their income(living off savings).
There are plenty of middle-aged people racking up debt and spending more than they make, but it is much less than 43% of the population.
markglSep 23, 2010
Alot of people who have those big fancy houses and cars don't really own anything, they just live a life style based on credit and then when the credit catches up to them they're screwed and then they screw the entire economy and then bam, you have and economy like we have today.
Similar to that housewives woman from that show, the one that is broke yet still manages to spend as if she has money. IDK her name I just see articles on her all the time.
nightwiseSep 22, 2010
I just closed all my accounts recently, bank and credit cards. Not trying to get off the grid, just tired of being nickel-and-dimed.
And the banks run the US.
jhw539Sep 22, 2010
A good (large) credit union kicks ass. They're non-profit and it shows. I suggest finding a large one because the small ones may not have all the capabilities you expect. A big one will make you happy. I recommend BECU to anyone who lives in WA state (yup, you're defined as eligible thanks to an epic fail lawsuit by banks trying to limit BECU's eligibility criteria).
nightwiseSep 23, 2010
Thanks! I'll check it out for sure. I think the guy below works for Chase or something.....
reposadoSep 22, 2010
Huh? Tired of being nickel and dimed? Only LOSERS live without even a bank account. What do you do when you get a check?
Go open a checking accout at CHASE. No fees at all. Even checks are free.
And there are plenty of credit cards that have no annual fees. Just be sure to pay it off each month.
Can believe such a dumb statement of yours is being dugg up. Says a lot about diggers.
Closed AccountSep 22, 2010
Save? What's that? This sums it up for most of my generation... http://www.pics.fm/tdnvngg
jhw539Sep 22, 2010
"An income of $50,000 falls into the 25% income tax bracket." $12,500/yr
BULLSHIAT. Yeah, a PORTION of your income is taxed at 25%, but not most of it. The actual tax, assuming a single person with only the personal exemption, would be $6,334 for 2010 (based on the preliminary tax tables). Reality is half what the "info"graphic shows.
This isn't rocket science folks. Bill Gates pays the same amount of tax on his first $50k as I do (which seems fair to me). It is only the income over the bracket's limit subjected to the higher bracket's rate. MARGINAL rates, biatches.
crunchdiggSep 22, 2010
Yep. in the first line, the "infographic" shows the writers have no idea what they are talking about.
Buried. wait.... dammit.
fadetooneSep 22, 2010
You must live in a nice reality. I paid $13k+ taxes with 2 exemptions last year, and I don't make much different money. So unless you are completely ignoring FICA taxes, which are still federal, I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers.
I'm not going to claim to know the first thing about taxes though.
jhw539Sep 22, 2010
Off the top, they are clearly referring to federal income taxes ("the 25% bracket"), not social security and medicare taxes (collected under Federal Insurance Contributions Act). The amount I cited is off of the tax table in the back of the 1040, although you can hand calc it by bracket easily enough.
And if you pay $13k federal taxes on a $50k income, you're doing it wrong.
$6.3k federal income tax (irs.gov)
$50k x 7.65% = $3.8k FICA contribution (irs.gov)
Total = 6300 + 3800 = $10,100.
Oops - you had two exemptions so your federal income tax is lower. It should be:
5400 + 3800 = $9,200
That's based on the documented tax rates at irs.gov. It is indeed a PROGRESSIVE tax scale (although look at how much regressive FICA bits at the low end!), so if you make 10-20% more (is that not much different to you?) then you can get into the $13k range.
fadetooneSep 22, 2010
Yeah, never said I made 50k... just in the area.
pintaSep 22, 2010
This is median household income, which probably means a married couple, and for married couples, the 25% bracket starts at $68,000 taxable income.
Also, the tax brackets apply to Taxable Income, not Gross Income. For a simple return, the Taxable income is Gross Income - Standard Deduction - Personal Exemptions.
For an unmarried individual with no dependents earning $50,000 gross, this would be
$50,000 - $5,700 - $3650 = $40,650.
The 25% tax bracket starts at $34,000 this year, so only the last $6,650 is taxed at 25%.
I find it difficult to trust financial advice from someone who doesn't understand the basics of tax brackets.
yurmutha412Sep 22, 2010
Saving is a general term. Investing is a better word. Starting a stock market account is a good way to get involved in capitalism, along with doing a lot of business reading. An account can be opened for 500 dollars with some online trade agencies. It's been a bit of a rough market lately, but that's a good place to gain experience.
Closed AccountSep 22, 2010
Until the day Wall Street collapses again - how much did you loose last time?
My retirement is secure and not depending on Wall Street, why on earth would I want ,my retirement to depend on Wall Street - a casino? I will receive 80% of the average income over the last 5 years prior to retirement, no matter if Wall Street is up or down.
fitzfanSep 23, 2010
Uh, when the money dries up your pension isn't going to get paid.
I wouldn't trust a pension to be secure, I'd have a back up plan just in case.
Closed AccountSep 23, 2010
Nope... See, this is the difference, I have a guarantee - you don't!
Besides, mine is backed by one of the largest pension funds in the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Government_Pension_Fund_of_Norway
skidooerSep 22, 2010
What is the difference between investing and spending?
For example, I purchased an iPhone, which is a frivolous expense. However, I used that purchase to create an App whose sales have more than paid for the phone.
You might say a TV is a frivolous expense, except I recently used the knowledge gained from watching a TV show to create a side business whose income has more than paid for the TV.
I don't know what these people are buying, but everything I buy has good potential for return on investment.
fitzfanSep 23, 2010
Of the 100 million iOS4 devices, less than 1% are making money off of it. You are by far the exception.
I'm sure your TV didn't need to be 50 inches and be paying for HD cable to learn something. You probably good have learned whatever you learned for free at the library or online...
yurmutha412Sep 22, 2010
@earloflade: I made money, actually. I had most of my money in gold mining companies. They dropped for a very short time and then returned to make a profit.
There is no such thing as a 100 percent secure environment. I took over my retirement account after my company closed and it's gone up about 300 percent in the last 10 years. That's an average of 30 percent per year.
@skidooer: Investing has a return on investment, or should have. Spending is just wasted money.
skidooerSep 22, 2010
As I noted before, purchases which are considered spending by the infographic, do have return on investment. Therefore, how much spending is really investment?
yurmutha412Sep 23, 2010
Oh yeah, point taken. It's a hard thing to calculate and most people don't bother on the tax forms because it's too much work proving it. Anyone not in business or making a profit other than a job is obviously just causing expense, for anyone self employed, or partially self employed, it's very hard to calculate. I use my computer for stock research and trading, so it technically could be considered an investment but I also use it for pleasure.
luvlibertySep 22, 2010
I've saved more this year than I ever have in a year by getting rid of all my debt, cutting my bills drastically, living way below my means, then saving the surplus. I guess that's a pretty easy formula.
peeequalsnpSep 22, 2010
Silly logic and math, no place for those here.
skidooerSep 22, 2010
The problem with saving is that your money is not working very hard for you. Spend the money in the right place and soon you will have a second income coming in making you even more money.
luvlibertySep 22, 2010
Are you being serious or just joking? It's hard to have money work for you that you no longer own.
skidooerSep 23, 2010
I am serious. That is why you trade your money for liquid assets that come with a reasonable return. Not only do they make more money while you own the asset, you can easily convert the asset back into cash when you find something else you want to use the money for.
If you just sit on cash, you will actually lose wealth as a result of inflation.
dotiSep 22, 2010
Dugg for accurately noting the difference between our tax rate, and the actual amount of taxes people pay. As a 30% bracketer myself, I only paid somewhere around 16% in federal taxes last year And I don't have a sleazy accountant or crazy complicated portfolio, just Turbo Tax.
People get all pissy about taxes when it comes to paying for good things like Health Care, but they fail to realize our actual tax rate is not all that high when you factor in the deductions. And sadly, the richer you are, the more deductions you get to take.
markglSep 22, 2010
I'm 80,000+ dollars in debt. I have nothing to save.
Closed AccountSep 22, 2010
I've saved $40,000 over the past two years and have no debt.
markglSep 23, 2010
Well good for you!
bdbrSep 22, 2010
Savings accounts make something like 1% - barely more than zero, and often less than inflation. That means if you have money in a savings account, you are actually *losing* money. I have a lot of money invested, but nearly nothing in savings.
nothlitSep 22, 2010
"On average, $3000 are given back in a tax return"? Um, whoever wrote this infographic has no idea what they are talking about. First of all, I think they are talking about a tax refund, not a return. The return is the paperwork that you file with the IRS. The refund is the money (if any) you get back because you had too much withheld. It's not like they're being generous. They're just refunding you the tax which you paid that you did not actually owe. If you're getting a tax refund, it means you essentially gave the government an interest free loan of your own money for several months.
MarcKSep 22, 2010
I think credit cards have a lot to blame for this. Easy credit is killing America.
skidooerSep 22, 2010
I think bdbr's post – http://bit.ly/9Kgl3f – sums up the real problem: When savings accounts are returning less than inflation, you cannot afford to save. You have to spend your money on other investments.
allisonv12Sep 22, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
luvlibertySep 24, 2010
Well of course. You don't want to just horde cash. When I say I've saved more money than ever this year, I have been putting the cash in investments.
The point I was trying to make, is that lowering your standard of living results in a surplus of money.