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treehugger87Aug 24, 2010
Why are the only 3 comments so far a celebration of failure? Are "conservatives" so blinded by their hate for Obama that they are *happy* when his efforts to get the economy rolling again fail?
oatlordAug 25, 2010
Are you so blinded by your love for Obama that you would continue to support his efforts even after they have been shown to fail?
boyprodigy1Aug 25, 2010
Are you so retarded as to not see that the efforts have been watered down in a blind attempt to satisfy the republican party? It didnt work btw. Thats the only thing that makes me disapprove of the past 2 years. They tried to negotiate. They should have gone with the middle finger negotiation. It would have worked better and the country would be in better shape.
mabsarkAug 28, 2010
Everyone should boycott Digg on Monday.
homercles337Aug 25, 2010
Lets see, a year and a half of efforts in spite of violent ignorance against them is akin to decades of disastrous right-wing policy? Are you in the top 1% of wealth owners in the US? If the answer is yes, you are a greedy worthless piece of s**t. If, however, the answer is no, then you are clearly easily duped by that 1%.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
foxtrotyankeeAug 25, 2010
If I'm in the top 1% of wealth owners, I may be greedy and I might be a piece of s**t. But I'm not worthless. My worth puts me in the top 1% of wealth owners!
Have fun being poor Homercles337. Keep standing there cursing the darkness rather than earning yourself a candle.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
nexuspAug 25, 2010
@FoxtrotYankee How bought using your 1% to light the neighborhood instead hording and hiding in your moldy mansion.
jaxxbatAug 25, 2010
Amazing how blind folks are today,, even in the age of the internet..
treehugger87Aug 25, 2010
Actually, I'm pretty pissed at Obama for being such a conservative. Health care should be single payer, we should be out of both Afghanistan and Iraq (and Germany and Japan, for that matter), we should have bailed out the homeowner's not the banks, we shouldn't be spying on Americans, the Patriot Act should have ended, Guantanamo and Bagram and all of the other American run prisons should be close, we should not longer be using contractors to wage war. The list goes on and on. I don't love Obama, I'm pissed that people like you still have so much power.
jaxxbatAug 25, 2010
You sound like a Ron Paul follower..Good post..
treehugger87Aug 25, 2010
I post a similar list a couple of weeks ago and was given the response that liberals don't sound all that different from conservatives in what they want from gov't and what they wanted from Obama. Sometimes I think that's how they want us - in agreement on the issues but to partisan to talk to each other and realize it
urmyhartbstoprAug 27, 2010
I found out who the f**k killed single payer. It's the Independent idiot Joe Lieberman. To buy his vote, Obama had to kill single payer. Saw it on a PBS documentary.
oatlordAug 25, 2010
I like how I reworded your basic premise and was able to bring out anger in everyone, including yourself, Treehugger. I said nothing about what I believe.
vociferunbannedAug 25, 2010
I dugg you both.
treehugger87Aug 25, 2010
I always lie
kasha34Aug 25, 2010
The kind of things Obama tries have failed over and over for hundreds of years. We don't have to "try" them again.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
Yeah, because the New Deal and subsequent spending in World War II didn't pull as out of the Great Depression. Oh wait.....
homercles337Aug 25, 2010
Why do you f**kwits make s**t up and then claim it as fact? Who the f**k does this? Are you retarded or just stupid? Let me guess, everything you learned about history comes from The Glenn Beckistan Press?
jaxxbatAug 26, 2010
I learned long before GB that socialism does not work, it is why America has done so well..
eddiepotatoAug 25, 2010
Maybe you can't point us to a historical example of paradise gained through unbridled capitalism.
rogerstrongAug 25, 2010
@homercles337:
In the case of kasha34, that' would be an accurate assessment.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
Mr. Potatohead. When we get a chance at "unbridled capitalism", then we can me a determination. But neither of us has seen it in our lifetime and I don't believe it has existed in several centuries.
jaxxbatAug 26, 2010
Brazil , China , Cuba strangely have more of it than we do now,, it appears..The Roaring 20s was near unbridled , thus all the action and wealth..If they would just respect the Constitution we would still have it..
rogerstrongAug 25, 2010
Actually we just had a couple really good experiments in "unbridled capitalism".
The US under Clinton and Bush II, and Britain deregulated their banks a few years back, but not Canada. The American banking system became a libertarian dream, with Alan Greenspan vehemently opposing any regulation.
The result was the collapse of Wall Street in late 2008, after institutionalized mortgage fraud was turned into institutionalized investment fraud - with private "independent" investment rating agencies like Standard & Poors in on the fraud.
http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=4288.2525.0.0
They ripped off the very investors holding the US national debt - which is why the government has no choice but to step in and try to salvage those investments.
As Greenspan stated, "Those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholder's equity -- myself especially -- are in a state of shocked disbelief."
Gee, you think he'd have learned a lesson from Enron and WorldCom. You know, where private "independent" auditors whose job it was to protect the interests of the investors, were instead in on the scam.
After the collapse Canada's banking system - which kept a small amount of government regulation - was rated the healthiest in the world by the World Economic Forum. (America's ranked 40th, Britain's 44th.) No banks went under, and there were no massive bank bailouts.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/183670
homercles337Aug 25, 2010
@jpete, all you have to do is read some history. We have had "unbridled capitalism" in the past and it was a colossal failure. That is why government had to step in and institute regulations. Remember, government is BY the people FOR the people. Government protects us from Corporations. This is basic simple history, if you cant understand that then there is no hope for you.
kasha34Aug 25, 2010
@alep85
The New Deal was a catastrophe. And evil. Did you know that FDR has agents roaming through the garment district and when they caught a tailor working after dark they arrested him?
The USA was still the the Depression when WW II hit. What brought us out was not the wartime spending. What brought us out was that some many of the rest of the world's factories were destroyed.
It's like if a small town has ten pizzerias. Then 9 of them burn down. The remaining pizzeria will prosper for a few years til the others rebuild.
jaxxbatAug 26, 2010
One would thing he would learn from so much history..
crunchdiggAug 25, 2010
yep. If he fixes W's screwups, THEN what can they tell themselves. They can only be happy if W's screwups are so massive that they can't be fixed.
Weird, huh?
see: happy finger pointing about the stock market in March 2009. At that point the narrative was that stocks, being a forward-looking indicator, showed that investors absolutely hated Obama's policies. Happy times. A year later, after a large runup, that wasn't the case.
jaxxbatAug 25, 2010
Because the man is a failure?
treehugger87Aug 25, 2010
I hated Bush and Cheney and still do. But I never rejoiced over their failures. I wanted you people to see them for the liars and cowards that they were, but I was never happy to catch them in a lie or expose them as cowards.
jaxxbatAug 25, 2010
simple answer: Conservatives dont like big wasteful gov...they consider it the real problem..
hattrick1369Aug 24, 2010
I am the one, Obama, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
I twist the truth, I rule the world, my crown is called deceit
I am the emperor of lies, you grovel at my feet
I rob you and I slaughter you, your downfall is my gain
And still you play the sycophant and revel in your pain
And all my promises are lies, all my love is hate
I am the politician, and I decide your fate
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
You need help. If you think Obama is solely to blame, clearly you haven't been around very long.
enantiodromiaAug 25, 2010
you should have tried getting an education and developing useful job skills, instead of reading stapled together political pamphlets included free with every case of ammo at the local Militia.
superkendallAug 25, 2010
Motörhead - Orgasmatron for those too dense to understand it.
ghengiskhan1Aug 24, 2010
ROFLMFAO @ the Obamaeconomy.
Cant you frogs feel the water starting to boil around you yet?
statisttwoAug 24, 2010
Not me, I'm doing great. How about you?
liabilityAug 25, 2010
To be fair, we can't all work for the government, or else, who would pay your salary?
liabilityAug 25, 2010
Buried for spamming idiocy from multiple accounts.
nolasagnaAug 24, 2010
The economy is so horrible. It's so bad I'm reduced to a home, vehicle, internet, cable, and all the fun things I've always enjoyed. It's horrible. Damnit, I'm even eating fresh lobster.
statisttwoAug 24, 2010
I think it's going to get worse. I got word they are going to increase cable prices 5%. We are dooooomed!
nolibrariansAug 24, 2010
To the do-nothing losers of the world - Libertarians - the economy is always in the s**tter. It's THEIR finances that are piss poor because they don't go out and get money like the smart and hard working people of the world do. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
nolasagnaAug 25, 2010
Libertarians wouldn't have such a hard time financially if they'd just put down the marijuana and get a job.
statisttwoAug 25, 2010
Never happen Lasagna. If they were successful who the hell could they blame? Libertarians are born complainers. They'd rather be losers!
curunirAug 25, 2010
OMG now there's "NoLasagna" too? How many frickin' accounts do you need?
marx2kAug 25, 2010
MY f**kING TANNING PRICES WENT UP! OBAMAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!
/s
wrath017Aug 25, 2010
I haven't gotten a raise in 2 years, but other than that I'm splendid.
enantiodromiaAug 25, 2010
In the last few months I have had offers from Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, a few nice start-ups, a random 5% bonus, and started making some money on a side project just for fun with some friends.
I haven't seen such a vibrant economy in Silicon Valley since 1998.
I guess having a useful set of skills for the year 2010 actually came in handy, instead of driving around the country to protest my useless job moving to China.
Good luck though, all my redneck friends in 2010. You have turned blaming other people for your misfortune into an entire political platform.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
Useless jobs like "making things"?
What will you do when people can't pay their internet bill anymore?
What will Facebook be then?
jasonlimanAug 25, 2010
dude, almost everyone has a facebook account, and I know even some homeless people have a facebook account, people simply can't live without internet. I would rather eat sandwich with raw union everyday to save up for internet bill than no internet.
Have you heard of Zynga? They are hiring every positions. But do you have the skills?
jaxxbatAug 26, 2010
Yeah they are calling it global warming
mejf2loyAug 25, 2010
I just knew Obama would save us!
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
Yeah because Congress didn't totally f**k everything up since 2000 (both Republican and Democrat controlled)....Oh wait......
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
Yeah, digg me down, because if its not partisan conservative/liberal slander or Obama trash talking, I suppose it isn't true.
Idiot.
rollwitdiggAug 25, 2010
Glad I am not selling.
marx2kAug 25, 2010
Glad I'm in the market to buy right now :D Still considering waiting a little bit more.
jaxxbatAug 25, 2010
Good to wait,,buy property as you would buy stocks.. wait for the bottom, it may be lower than we think..
dfarqAug 26, 2010
Don't stress out trying to time the market. When you have enough for the downpayment and you find a property that meets your needs (think long-term), go ahead and buy. If you wait six more months, the house could be cheaper, but it could just as easily be the same, or a little higher than now, or off the market so you'd be settling for second-best. Plus, in the meantime you've presumably been paying rent.
addiktionAug 25, 2010
Glad I'm not buying because I'm confident it will get lower. In fact I'm glad its getting lower. The prices are so inflated and overpriced that its hinders younger couples who actually save money and want to buy a house versus those who go in with 0% down, arm, interst-only payments. You know the people who don't know why they can't afford their housing payments these days because they overextended themselves.
ferretmanAug 25, 2010
I'm building.
On the one hand it's good because it's easy to get crews to do the job. On the other hand they almost want every job to pay for their office for the next 6 months and so some of the bids have had to be *aggressively* countered.
Overall a good time to build though.
jeffwmartinAug 25, 2010
Just sold our house a couple weeks ago. It was on the market 4 months, we dropped the price $5K and accepted an offer $5K below that.
spazattack5000Aug 25, 2010
It's Obama's fault the entire world economy is in the s**tter..... Yeah, say that enough and it might be true.
Come on people, the world is bigger than just USA. (Even though USA primarily caused the worldwide economic collapse)
boyprodigy1Aug 25, 2010
I'm not sure you should have started your post that way. It makes people bury you even though what you are saying is true.
nakedjediAug 25, 2010
Let's just focus on the home buying issue. The Federal Home Buyer Tax Credits program gave up to $6500 to people who bought a home before April 30 of 2010. Anyone who was thinking of buying a house this year likely accelerated their purchase plans so that they could take advantage of the credit. This has had the effect of pulling all home sales into the first quarter of the year. This is why we are seeing record lows now.
There has been no boom in housing and the bottom may just be a result of pulling in all the years activity into the first part of the year. No one will know for certain, but if Obama had just let the housing market recover on its own, it may have recovered by now. It's the classic pull the band aid off slow or fast question.
phpldAug 25, 2010
Big business is holding their money on the sidelines, and employment is not going up. The rich are wealthier than ever before and are not helping us. The question is what are we going to do about it?
nakedjediAug 25, 2010
@phpld For 2007 - 50% of the people pay 97% percent of the taxes. The top 1% (people who make over $400k/year) pay 40% of taxes. It seems to me that the rich pay enough and we have lots of freeloaders in this country who whine and complain on Digg.
Obama says everyone needs to pay their "faie share" and I agree. Paying 0% taxes is not fair to the 50% of us who do pay.
phpld, what bracket are you in? I'm gonna guess you're a freeloader.
http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
youareretardedAug 25, 2010
And how do those figures compare to historical figures?
I guess if it "seems" like the rich pay enough in taxes then it must mean they pay enough in taxes.
/s
superkendallAug 25, 2010
So the USA convinced Greece and Spain to spend like there was no tomorrow because it was just other people's money?
On the other hand, you have a point - we are setting that example.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
dayal911Aug 25, 2010
Please tell me how the USA caused the World's economy to collapse.
spazattack5000Aug 25, 2010
When almost every world economy is tied into the USA economy, a collapse sends a huge shockwave through the entire world.
dayal911Aug 25, 2010
Ok, so you didn't really explain anything, just as I thought.
You: "the bible is true"
me: "why"
you:: "because it was written by god, and god is never wrong"
that's basically what you did there.
jaxxbatAug 25, 2010
Just blame Bush..
prolianceAug 25, 2010
Will Barney Frank and Chris Dodd ever be held accountable?
kasha34Aug 25, 2010
And Bill Clinton who got the CRA pumped up. And stinking Andy Cuomo who was Secretary of HUD then. Obama was part of it too.
When the Feds started forcing banks to hand out affirmative action loans, CITIBANK resisted. Obama was a lawyer on the stinking team that tried the case against them.
rogerstrongAug 25, 2010
The problem with that little Republican talking point is, er, the truth.
The CRA had nothing to do with the subprime mortgage fraud turned investment fraud that sank the economy.
From Business Week:
Community Reinvestment Act had nothing to do with subprime crisis http://www.businessweek.com/investing/insights/blog/archives/2008/09/community_reinv.html
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
ZOMG! KAASHAA IS RIGHT!!! Oh, don't hold back on us, Kasha! We all know it was caused by ChemTraillllllzZ and Gee-Hoddy KennYunn terror-babbbeez! and LIZARDMEN! AYEEEEEE! OUR FLUIDS ARE AT STAKE! Save us Kasha!
Oh, don't forget, CHEMTRAILZ!!!
Oh, Kasha, you are just adorable!Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
For those who have never had the pleasure of "Kasha exposure" here is some greatest hits:
-It's time to kick the UN out of New York. And stop paying dues!
-When Americans stop seeing Islam as a religion and start realizing it's a military and political system bent on conquest, this all will be simpler.
-Do you know that the Koran says that Judgment Day cannot come until Muslims war with the Jews and kill them all?
-They want to keep half-black Americans in the black category. Or they'd lose constituents!
-Even Obama would have to show his real birth certificate to get a passport. He's got it somewhere. He just won't show it to us. Don't you libs even wonder why?
-Just as (Obama) lied to us about his ties and even membership in Marxist organizations like Democratic Socialists of America.
-He joined a "church" in Chicago with a pastor who's a "former" BlackMuslim!
-Did the Westboro Church virtually invent the intercontinental trade in black slaves? Did it kidnap a million whites into slavery during a 1,000 year period?
-Cat Stevens has been linked to terrorist groups.
-That's where "public/private partnerships" also known as fascism, takes you. And that's where Obama and these Democratic Socialists of America jerkoffs would take us too.
-Violent Muslims are following Mohammad and Allah's orders.
-Did you know that Obama had the State Dept illegally steer tens of millions to convincing KENYANS to vote last week to change their Constitution?
-When Hitler had Jews wearing the Star-of-David, he was taught that idea by Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.
-Every Muslim on earth heard the President of the United States proclaim himself a Muslim.
-Who said he (POTUS *comment added*) was a Muslim?
-Anything where business and government work together? That is fascism.
-Which clause in the Constitution are you referring to exactly? I don't think the Constitution spells out "religious freedom" you know.
( http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/am ... *comment added*)
-The public schools are three-quarters illegal immigrants. Maybe that's why they're out of money.
homercles337Aug 25, 2010
If Barney "Superman Representative" Frank is responsible, he has more power than anyone in the US has EVER had. This would also mean that he is untouchable.
nakedjediAug 25, 2010
Here are the facts. A republican controlled house and senate and President Clinton repealed the Glass-Steagall Act in 1999. This allowed banks to once again speculate. One such speculation were mortgage securities. This plot shows the number of sub prime mortgages since the act was repealed.
http://subprimer.org/files/subprime-securitization.png
As you can see they climb from 50 billion to 500 billion once the act was repealed. Lending money to people who can't repay it is never a good idea.
During this time both Frank and Dodd started to politically pander to the democratic base and made home ownership a right. If you were against sub prime mortgages you were branded a racist. Bush tried twice to stop the practice but was not successful. He actually spoke out of both side of his mouth on this one. He bragged how under his administration home ownership had risen to nearly 60% but also demonized sub prime lending and zero down mortgages.
Both parties are to blame but Dodd and Frank likely played a larger role than anyone else.
homercles337Aug 25, 2010
Like i said, Barney "Superman Representative" Frank (with his callous sidekick Dodd) caused the whole thing! Despite a Republican majority and a Republican in the White House he (and his freakish sidekick) was able to single-handedly bring them to their knees! Weak little Republicans! Despite the fact that the Gramm(R), Leech(R), and Bliely(R) Act would have gone through with or without Clinton's signature--who had one foot out the door. He did sign it though, so he does deserve some blame, but only 1% next to the 99% of Barney "Superman Representative" Frank (with his creepy sidekick Dodd) fighting to protect that Republican legislation! BTW, in the Senate the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act passed with ONE Democrat voting for it. I still wonder why there was no rejection in the House. But, yeah, that damn *Super Representative* Frank (and his sneaky sidekick Dodd) are to blame for the whole fiasco...like i said.
nakedjediAug 25, 2010
@homercles337 I think "Banking Queen" is a better kick name for Frank than "Superman Representative"
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
Being that Frank was LITERALLY sleeping with a VP at Fannie, I'd say he was a little closer to the problem.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
So, in this last few weeks have you not realized that just about every wingnut lie you RWNJ's have floated not only crashed and burned but made you look incredibly stupid? Well, I guess not, since you did just spew that...
jaxxbatAug 25, 2010
Never... Frank is a classic Socialist pig, always happy to spend someone else's money..
richmomzAug 25, 2010
Yeah, right after we start holding the Federal Reserve accountable. As in "don't hold your breath"...
theoriginalaksAug 25, 2010
Housing sales were also at a massive high, its foolish to think they will return to what they were.
jaxxbatAug 25, 2010
Actually not foolish at all if you understand that market..socialist propaganda will always use normal market swings as an excuse to validate.. Only an idiot falls for all the hype.. BTW there was no threat of another depression as Obama keeps bragging that he prevented..Real estate values will remain weak as long as the gov keeps growing..simple math ..
trutholderAug 25, 2010
awesome cant wait for the crazy conservatives to blame this on Obama. Because its his fault that people bought houses they couldn't afford.
kasha34Aug 25, 2010
It's the Democrat's fault. And Obama, as a young lawyer, helped in a small way. Also, he was allied with ACORN whose main mission was to get minorities loans they couldn't pay back. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
strfxAug 25, 2010
It's not his fault that they bought houses they couldn't afford. But it IS his fault that many of them did have to face the consequences, and your and my money was wasted on bailing suckers out who still sit in houses that they could never afford.
randyzaiaAug 25, 2010
That's not Obama's fault, that's the fault of Democrats like Barney Frank who encouraged Fannie Mae to make stupid loans to people who couldn't afford.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
kasha34Aug 25, 2010
The mission of ACORN was to help minorities get mortgages they couldn't pay back. And Obama was working hand-in-hand with them.
jaxxbatAug 25, 2010
Obama aint got a clue ..But he sure slings a good line of crap..
kasha34Aug 25, 2010
I think he's purposely bankrupting the nation.
libertarianslolAug 25, 2010
we better do something to keep housing prices stupidly high while also enticing people to buy them
because houses are magical and high housing prices are a good thing
y0tsuyaAug 25, 2010
According to the government and the real-estate industry, going deep into debt to buy a house = economic prosperity.
neutron7Aug 25, 2010
Buying a house = american dream was invented because people who have to pay the mortgage don't like to go on strike.
nexuspAug 25, 2010
@neutron7 at one point in America, only property owners had a say in anything just like in Britain at the time, It's an old tradition of greed.
jaxxbatAug 26, 2010
Property ownership as we know it is not real because of the taxes we are forced to pay on it every year, based on appraisal ..so this so called "ownership" has become a liability, the townships have "Carte Blanche" like all of gov so the liability keeps growing and the value of these properties keeps dropping... Add this to the weak economy with a huge mortgage and you have this mess we are in..Gov constantly puts pressure on our quality of life and this is a prime example.. Best thing to do is go with the flow because things are gonna get crazy..BTW if you dont claim ownership of your property who will?
nakedjediAug 25, 2010
Hope and Change.
timlopezAug 25, 2010
I've been in the market to buy for the last year. It's not that nobody's buying, it's that investors are taking all the properties, paying cash, and then flipping them the same day and jacking up the prices passed appraisal value. The problem is that people are greedy out there. Banks owned properties are the same way. They're doing it to themselves.
stillhateyouAug 25, 2010
That will only last so long. Once they realize no one wants to buy at those prices, they're going to have to sell at a loss. Personally, I think that's a good thing. f**k those guys.
libertarianslolAug 25, 2010
sure they'll buy them at those prices...
once we get another subsidy that makes it seem affordable...
dzhuo04Aug 25, 2010
Banks will even sell you the home, transfer you the title, and call backsies, it's f**king asinine that the home buyer must be forced to play this rigged game with foreclosed and bank owned properties.
lazymojoAug 25, 2010
Could you clarify what you mean by that?
dzhuo04Aug 25, 2010
They reclaim the deed, and claim that they didn't sell you the property due to "clerical" mistakes, it's basically a scam to gauge the market value of the foreclosed property and being able to mark the sale as revenue but once the property is returned the revenue isn't then deducted.
zephyrprimeAug 25, 2010
I do not see this happening.
row3bo4tAug 25, 2010
The problem is that there is way too much supply in the market. So many houses were built in the last decade, when people had easy credit. Unless we start bulldozing houses, this problem will last a long time. Prices will continue to go down to meet the lower demand. The market will eventually stabilize, but a lot of people will be hurt between now and whenever we get back to equilibrium.
kasha34Aug 25, 2010
That makes a lot of sense. Bulldoze perfectly good houses.
The f**king leftists never learn.
Hey, why don't you pass a law that REQUIRES people to pay real estate prices from 2006? Wouldn't that be easier? What could go wrong?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
row3bo4tAug 25, 2010
I think you missed the point. I said that because there is excess supply, prices will continue to fall to meet demand. That statement is just classic economics nothing more. The only solution to the housing problem is to let time pass. Many home owners are going to get hurt because of the lower housing prices.
Maybe if you weren't so caught up in the left vs. right farce, then you would have realized bulldozing houses is an absurd statement. I used absurdity to show that at some point we as Americans are going to have to deal with the housing problems and government subsidies won't solve the problem.
Go back under your bridge troll and make some tea.
elcadAug 25, 2010
While you're making tea, I would like one also. Thanks.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
Damn Kasha! You are even getting buried in the right-wing articles! You really are a living joke to EVERYONE now!
Here is some of his greatest hits:
http://digg.com/business_finance/Home_Sales_Plunge_27_pct_To_Lowest_in_15_Years?t=34480469#c34481477
freakflagAug 25, 2010
Something that is applicable to people in my age group is college debt. Many of my friends are finding themselves in a situation where they have two options. Option one, move further from their job and drive more. Option two, move closer to their job and drive less. One friend in particular feels that a mortgage is an unnecessary burden when there are amenities included in most rentals now.
Seems logical to me.
needcoffeeAug 25, 2010
I'm still renting. Let's see here.
150k home over 30 years at 5% interest rate. Roughly $1023 a month
Then say over that 30 years you have to buy a new AC or heater, or roof. I'll take a wild guess and say over 30 years you end up having to pay another 25k for upkeep.
Not including a lot of other crap that comes into play we're looking at a cool $393,280 debt over 30 years.
Now say I rent.
$650 a month now and say in 30 years it might go up to even $900 a month.
That's $373-$123 a month I could put into a savings account. Places I've been looking into are around $1500 a half so $3k a year. Let's low ball it and say $2k.
So no I am saving roughly $2976 a year + a low $2k I would have paid in taxes, add that 25k upkeep I never have to pay.
By the time I die I would have saved roughly $4976 a year or $149280 over 30 years, or $174,280 without upkeep costs.
Not even accounting for possible small interest gains on that money sitting in a savings account.
A house truly isn't an investment, it's just a place to live and raise a family.
lazymojoAug 25, 2010
You kind of neglected the major subsidy to home ownership. Mortgage Interest payments are tax deductable. The first year of your mortgage you save roughly (insert tax rate)*mortage payment*12. Granted, it goes down over time. The benefit to renting is nowhere near what you're claiming, and in probably 75% of situations, owning IS better.
brassbudAug 25, 2010
I would expect your rent to be more. Someone owns the property, afterall, and they aren't doing it for charity.
Also, I think you may have underestimated the effects of inflation on housing prices. In the next 30 years inflation is going to go sky high in the Western world, so you may end up paying much less owning than renting come year 25.
richmomzAug 25, 2010
@Lazy - true, but he also didn't factor in the cost of insurance, HOA dues or other "hidden" expenses of home ownership (though he did cover maintenance).
Studies have been done to see whether renting or buying is better. The general rule, depending on where you live is if you plan on moving within the next 5 years renting is better, while buying is a no-brainer if you're going to be there for 10+ years. In the 5-10 year range its kind of a tossup.
zephyrprimeAug 25, 2010
A $150K home is going to be a lot bigger than a $650 apartment. Also, over 30 years, at an inflation rate of 3%, you can count on your rent rising to 2.4x times it's current level rather than just rising 1.5x.
Look, it's real simple. You don't even need to do any math. Landlords have mortgages and property taxes (higher property taxes!) just like home owners do. They have higher maintenance costs and they have to buy liability insurance. Their costs are higher than yours. The difference is, at the end of their 30 years, they will own the building and you will not. It's that simple.
The only time renting is better is if:
A real estate bubble is going on.
You plan to move around a lot.
strfxAug 25, 2010
Awesome. No recovery in the housing market yet, but I'm sure happy that the government happily handed out my tax dollars for those 8k subsidies that now apparently nobody really benefits from. Except those who got them.
Welcome to the Age of Entitlement.
mistrbrownstoneAug 25, 2010
Look at the bright side, at least everyone has a decent paying job...oh wait.
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
Yeah, besides that, I'm so sick of Democrats creating tax breaks to those making over $250,000 a year and raking the middle class over the coals. Oh wait, that was a Republican idea.
They both suck. Period. Bush blew trillions on Iraq and giving his rich buddies enough tax breaks to buy a couple Lambos and Ferraris, so don't talk to me about entitlements. They both spend recklessly, so why should we believe either of them when they say big government is not their goal?
enantiodromiaAug 25, 2010
Do you even make enough to pay Federal taxes?
I ask because most people I see crying about how "their" tax dollars are being used, don't actually pay that much.
akhomesteadAug 25, 2010
And most people who make that claim don't realize the increase in prices because of taxes that they pay in the products they buy.
I hired a guy with a loader at a 100 bucks an hour today for some yard work, if i went to the business that has to pay taxes, and follow all the government regulations, to make the same 100 bucks an hour they have to charge me almost 300.
jaxxbatAug 26, 2010
Yup.. Union scale..And some folks actually think they are getting more when they pay more..
strfxAug 25, 2010
@enantiodromia: oh no, you had to go there. really. really!?
Without going into too much detail, I have a graduate degree, work as an senior engineer and pay my fair share of Federal taxes each year.
And it annoys the heck out of me that almost half of working-age Americans don't pay Federal income taxes. That's just messed up. I'm all for a flat income tax rate. Brackets are inherently about entitlement, redistribution and arbitrary distribution of hard earned income.
Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
jaxxbatAug 26, 2010
Yeah unless one lives in Pa or one of the other high tax states..
scabnabbitAug 25, 2010
And here we are, still building like a mofo! (At least here...)
cyphin6Aug 25, 2010
Wow, were f**ked.
abehammy111Aug 25, 2010
Another short answer with no backup presented.
wonderchemistAug 25, 2010
Please the reason housing is down is because bankers are getting back at Obama for taking their bonuses away.
drleephdAug 25, 2010
article is over a month old.
just saying.
beylanAug 25, 2010
Those numbers were just released today.
fedreformAug 25, 2010
This is good news for all young people. We've been prevented from getting a home, & trapped in rent, being robbed by the ownership class. They rob us when we work, when we sleep, & they'd love to privatize everything, (Wall St. style,) until we were robbed further.
egoidealAug 25, 2010
Go get a job you damn hippie.
pimpdawgAug 25, 2010
And a haircut.
runningboardv2Aug 25, 2010
good thing i'll be in the market to buy relatively soon as a first time buyer. (Digg me down if ya want, lemon to lemonade-ing, nice credit and everything.)
nolibrariansAug 25, 2010
Buried as inaccurate. The only reason home sales fell like that is because everyone who was thinking of buying a home took advantage of the tax credit. The housing market is going to be just fine, kids!
needcoffeeAug 25, 2010
Personally I'd like to see houses drop about 50%. Then maybe myself and a million other people who dropped 50-100k for college only to be out of work or flipping burgers for a decade post .com burst can finally afford a house and not be paying for it till they retire.
shazoocowAug 25, 2010
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Wait a minute. What you're saying is that sales of homes are not the same now, after a real estate crash, as they were at the peak of an epic real estate bubble that had been inflating since the late 80s? I am shocked! I fully expected that existing sales and new starts would immediately return to their irrational highs circa 2005-2006 because clearly those highs made a lot of sense.
jasonlimanAug 25, 2010
In the suburb, house price will keep falling because supply is extremely over demand, but house price in the city is becoming more stable. I am looking into buying a house in SF bayarea, even if price keep falling for the next few year, at most will be 20 percent, but at that time everyone will be jumping in and the bidding war will drive price even higher as will as the interest rate.
The first time home buyer credit might have some affect on the house price, but I recently make several offers on different house in different area, even I offer well above the asking price, my offers were turn down because of the all cash buyer/ inverter/ flipper.
I really wish the price keep falling, but since last year, I hadn't see much difference in price around SF bayarea.
dutchguilder2Aug 25, 2010
The median house prices in my areas are still 8x median household income. Traditionally houses cost about 2.9x household income. House prices still have a long way to fall before they are affordable to most people.
enantiodromiaAug 25, 2010
Here is how Digg works:
Story:
"Home Sales Fall as Economy Gets Back On Track"
Instead of Conservatives being happy that people are being a bit more cautious with their money, you know, the exact thing they have been claiming all along more people should do, they twist it into a bad thing so they can pin it on their "Outrage Du Jour".
So people are staying put for longer than usual while they wait for their companies to get back on their feet. So what?
Isn't that what people _should_ be doing right now in uncertain times?
If the story headline was "Home Sales Spike 27% to Highest Level In Years", the Conservatives would be just as outraged, but this time about how irresponsible home buyers are acting.
Just admit, Digg Conservatives, you will never ever be happy about anything ever.
overdrivenAug 25, 2010
Neither one is good, you dimwit. A healthy real estate is neither vastly over or under inflated.
dfarqAug 26, 2010
Conservatives can blame Obama, while liberals can blame Bush. But this is a complex problem, arguably 20-25 years in the making, that can't be solved in just two years. There's nothing Obama (or McCain) could have done right away to fix the issue of there being more houses out there than there are people who can afford them. Let alone the other issues that made that issue worse.
schmuckofniAug 25, 2010
Dude, people don't have jobs. No jobs = no buying houses! Period.
richmomzAug 25, 2010
Not just that but if the people who *do* have jobs feel insecure or unable to advance financially they're not going to run out and buy more/bigger property either.
nullcodesAug 25, 2010
The reason for this economic slump is:
1. Home prices inflated overdramatically because of a number of reasons (banks gave larger loans than they should have, land prices made it harder for condos and newer housing to be built)
2. High energy prices (remember sub $1 gas in the late 90's?)
It will get fixed this way:
1. As housing prices drop .. homes will get sold for less .. meaning more people can afford homes .. housing prices will adjust according to whether banks give out loans that are correct according to a person's income and earning potential.
2. As newer oil fields and especially refineries come online and OPEC members get greedy and start cheating each other even more.
dauntless1Aug 25, 2010
It's real simple. A house's value = materials + labor + rough 20 markup for profit.
That markup means that a house worth 50k, sells for 60k. THAT'S IT.
NOT 150k, not 200k, not 300k or more. 60k, f**king period. So when houses are selling for roughly where they should be, and not where goddamn idiots THINK they should be, they will start selling again.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
brassbudAug 25, 2010
I don't know about you, but around me you can't get a 8 x 12 piece of asphalt with yellow lines on the side for 60k...
dauntless1Aug 25, 2010
Exactly. The biggest part of any "bubble" is the fake value involved. There is no unit of measure to place an accurate value on things like "sentimental value" or "neighborhood placement", so these things are NOT part of the value of the home. Just because someone is willing to pay outrageous amounts for something, does not mean that the value of the items match.
jasonlimanAug 25, 2010
I don't know where you live, 50K can barely buy you the smallest trailer park house. And your theory is quit naive.
Also, you sounds a lot like the beginning of communism. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
dauntless1Aug 25, 2010
First, 50k is an example. And my "theory" comes from years of calculating ACTUAL loan worth for Chase Bank, so when they issued loans, they knew exactly how much they had a realistic chance of reclaiming if the person bailed.
How does what I say sound like communism? It's the basics of value calculation. It doesn't stop someone for selling that home for 1000 times what it's worth, if they can find an idiot who wants to pay that.
jasonlimanAug 25, 2010
I understand your point about investors/ flippers are driven the price up and ripping off the real user. And that's the dirty side about capitalism. And this happen everywhere, not only in real estate. For instance, my gf buy s**t load of make up, and I am always wondering why would she buy a overprice $40 eyeliner and instead she could just buy the $10 eyeliner. For me they are the same whatsoever, but one brand is heavily advertised on every major magazine and the other doesn't. I am sure you get my point.
The reason why I said you sound like communism is that you remind me of how communism start, The poor get upset about how the rich control the market's price, then the poor get upset and take over the country, and control everything to be a fair price.
And from your theory, investor should priced their house at a reasonable rate (material + labor + a reasonable profit) and other factors should not take into account. To me that's a bit narrow minded. No offense to you and I wish the ideal world is like your theory, everything should mark at a fair price. But in reality it won't work. Because if putting your theory into account, no one will give a s**t about making new things. Every house on every block will be the same. For example, I spend X amount of money to build a house, and my profit will be X amount + Z profit. And if I spend Y amount of money to build another house in different area, and my profit will be Y amount + Z profit. So why should I even try to create anything because no matter what I do, the out come will be Z profit.
I don't work at a bank nor I study economy. I am sure you have tons more experience than me and I merely talk base on "my" logic. The thing about why the economy crash in the first place is that the bank issue loan extremely irresponsibly. From what I heard, back in the day one can simply get a 100K loan by simply write down how much their wages is. And many people could get a second/ third loan. And the story goes on.
Today is a different market, and I am sure you know since you work in the banking business.
Another thing is, there are many idiots in the world, and many idiots would pay for a over price house. Just like many idiots watch infomercial TV and buy those useless objects that many are for sell in dollar store.
smemilyAug 25, 2010
I don't think you understand economies.
The market price for everything is set by what people think it should be.
The materials and labor, for example, are priced by what people will pay.
It's not like there is some hard and fast exchange rate of lumber per dollar.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
dauntless1Aug 25, 2010
@jasonliman, smemily
Nope, just worked for a bank in the mortgage department for a few years. If it can't be physically evaluated, it does not carry monetary value. Banks can and will issue loans based off "other factors" (i.e. if your credit score is huge or you have a f**kload of money, you can have a loan for any stupid thing that crosses your mind) but those items can not be resold to turn a profit. "Safe neighborhood" cannot be pulled from, say OKC and then resold in another part of Oklahoma. What someone is willing to pay, and what something is actually worth, are two different things.
zephyrprimeAug 25, 2010
You totally forgot the price of the land.
Here's a table with average building cost of a new single family home in the US during 2009. Even if you only consider just raw materials, you are spending more than your hypothetical $60k.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_QOEZ0xLtg2g/S6ZKR2rs79I/AAAAAAAABOA/fr2heWfg7qA/s1600-h/2009+ctb.jpg
zbeastAug 25, 2010
I'm currently renting a home that was on the market at the top of the bubble that was for sale.
It's selling price was $1.4 million. It's rental price to keep it from going into foreclosure.
$2000 a month 4500sf with giant swimming pool it's current market value is $450,000 and they still can't
sell it. Lenders are not lending and no one can afford to buy and even those who can afford to buy are
just increasing there savings. for economic troubles coming.
None of this is "obamas" fault... it's the fault of greedy Stock Market creeps, and Banksters.
tomasiiAug 25, 2010
"None of this is "obamas" fault... it's the fault of greedy Stock Market creeps, and Banksters."
Bwaahhahahahaha, really, you aren't serious are you?
tomasiiAug 25, 2010
"None of this is "obamas" fault... it's the fault of greedy Stock Market creeps, and Banksters."
Bwaahhahahahaha, really, you aren't serious are you?
tomasiiAug 25, 2010
"None of this is "obamas" fault... it's the fault of greedy Stock Market creeps, and Banksters."
Bwaahhahahahaha, really, you aren't serious are you?
tomasiiAug 25, 2010
"None of this is "obamas" fault... it's the fault of greedy Stock Market creeps, and Banksters."
Bwaahhahahahaha, really, you aren't serious are you?
tomasiiAug 25, 2010
"None of this is "obamas" fault... it's the fault of greedy Stock Market creeps, and Banksters."
Bwaahhahahahaha, really, you aren't serious are you?
tomasiiAug 25, 2010
"None of this is "obamas" fault... it's the fault of greedy Stock Market creeps, and Banksters."
Bwaahhahahahaha, really, you aren't serious are you?
tomasiiAug 25, 2010
"None of this is "obamas" fault... it's the fault of greedy Stock Market creeps, and Banksters."
Bwaahhahahahaha, really, you aren't serious are you?
tomasiiAug 25, 2010
"None of this is "obamas" fault... it's the fault of greedy Stock Market creeps, and Banksters."
Bwaahhahahahaha, really, you aren't serious are you?
tomasiiAug 25, 2010
"None of this is "obamas" fault... it's the fault of greedy Stock Market creeps, and Banksters."
Bwaahhahahahaha, really, you aren't serious are you?
tomasiiAug 25, 2010
Sorry about the multiple replies...the new digg has some issues.
taaybAug 25, 2010
I hope this means that people who can't afford homes and have no business owning homes will stop buying homes and then foreclosing on them.
Interesting story. I can't afford a home. I haven't been able to afford a home in the past 5 years. Do you know what I did not do? Buy a home on credit I didn't deserve. I certainly could have. They were giving away credit/homes like hot cakes. But I didn't, because I couldn't afford it.
brassbudAug 25, 2010
You must not be from around here...
alpinerAug 25, 2010
They were giving away hot cakes like homes and credit? Damn, I missed that. I love hot cakes.
gordigorAug 25, 2010
Well are you the cool dude.
zephyrprimeAug 25, 2010
You should have. You would be getting more than a years worth of free living at this point in time.
king0007Aug 25, 2010
Obama + Digg =Lovefest
EconomyInCrisiAug 25, 2010
The root cause of our economic problems are 6-fold.
1. Chinese currency manipulation with up to 40% reduction in value
2. Domestic policies which encourage outsourcing and offshoring.
3. NAFTA and the WTO. We must temporarily secede from the WTO as justified per its own charter (It states a country can leave the WTO if they're experience a large trade deficit, like we are)
4. Interest rate policy that reduces incentive to save and increases incentive to buy on credit. This causes foreign investment incentive in domestic companies shifting ownership out of America.
5. The housing bubble and the subsequent crash (though it is really a symptom rather than a cause)
6. The national and personal debt of the United States.
www.economyincrisis.org
Closed AccountAug 25, 2010
Just exactly how can you buy a house when the banks are refusing to lend the money to do so?
d3dmAug 26, 2010
Cash.
tnvwboyAug 25, 2010
1. In some areas it is cheaper to rent than to buy (not long term, but when you are living pay check to pay check, every dollar in your pocket helps).
2. Those with lower incomes were previously encouraged to buy with cheap and loose credit. Those days are over.
3. Because of the housing boom, there are home surpluses in many areas.
You combine all three of those along with a general fiscal conservativeness that is currently occurring, and of course housing sales are going to be down, especially in the lower end of the market.
There is also a trend towards remodeling that isn't reflected in this article. Smart people are hunkering down and being happy with what they have or are remodeling what they have instead of buying new. Not great for an economy that wants constant growth, but it's good for those people who are being smart with their money.
tnvwboyAug 25, 2010
1. In some areas it is cheaper to rent than to buy (not long term, but when you are living pay check to pay check, every dollar in your pocket helps).
2. Those with lower incomes were previously encouraged to buy with cheap and loose credit. Those days are over.
3. Because of the housing boom, there are home surpluses in many areas.
You combine all three of those along with a general fiscal conservativeness that is currently occurring, and of course housing sales are going to be down, especially in the lower end of the market.
There is also a trend towards remodeling that isn't reflected in this article. Smart people are hunkering down and being happy with what they have or are remodeling what they have instead of buying new. Not great for an economy that wants constant growth, but it's good for those people who are being smart with their money.
tnvwboyAug 25, 2010
1. In some areas it is cheaper to rent than to buy (not long term, but when you are living pay check to pay check, every dollar in your pocket helps).
2. Those with lower incomes were previously encouraged to buy with cheap and loose credit. Those days are over.
3. Because of the housing boom, there are home surpluses in many areas.
You combine all three of those along with a general fiscal conservativeness that is currently occurring, and of course housing sales are going to be down, especially in the lower end of the market.
There is also a trend towards remodeling that isn't reflected in this article. Smart people are hunkering down and being happy with what they have or are remodeling what they have instead of buying new. Not great for an economy that wants constant growth, but it's good for those people who are being smart with their money.
reeds1999Aug 25, 2010
Why? Simple, prices are not low!
reeds1999Aug 25, 2010
Why? Simple, prices are not low!
reeds1999Aug 25, 2010
Why? Simple, prices are not low!
reeds1999Aug 25, 2010
Why? Simple, prices are not low!
grey580Aug 25, 2010
Guess what folks we aren't done. Not by a long shot.
There is still the commercial real estate bubble that's ready to pop.
dfarqAug 26, 2010
Part of the problem is banks are generally requiring 30% downpayments now, rather than the traditional 20%. And during the boom, they'd play some games to give you much less than 20% down, even zero. So if there's a $150,000 house down the street, it doesn't matter if it was worth twice that in 2005. What matters is if you can come up with a $45,000 down payment for it. Most people can't do that quickly.
The large downpayment makes foreclosures less likely, but in the short term, it makes it a lot harder to move houses, since people have to save up longer to make that downpayment.
blindbizAug 26, 2010
As a person who makes his living selling window coverings to home owners, It's seems clear to me that Obummer is trying to kill the economy. I have re structured my business and we're back to making some money.Since i don't know what theses crazy people in the White House will do next, I sit in the shadows looking for small opportunties and not taking any risk.