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NickCobbAug 17, 2010
Probably higher than our education rating amongst other nations though.
theinformerAug 17, 2010
Your wrong. Were smarter than that.
azuvectorAug 17, 2010
You're. We're.
h8f8kesAug 18, 2010
Irony....
covenAug 18, 2010
----> the joke
*whoosh*
---> your head
theinformerAug 18, 2010
It's called sarcasm.
Azuvector fail.
Closed AccountAug 18, 2010
horrible high schools, but still the best university system in the world by a long shot
koldingAug 17, 2010
not bad really
fauxbro1983Aug 18, 2010
yeah but all of the subprime financial instruments were packaged as AAA...untill they went under. it's kinda odd that the rating agencies such as moody's are paid a fee by banks to rate their crap. seems like a conflict of interest to me.
bonesehAug 17, 2010
We're good at making payments, but we just borrow sooooo much.
diggtwofaceAug 17, 2010
time to scratch all debt and start over :)
deafbeatAug 17, 2010
I think its not that simple.
iceman21Aug 17, 2010
Would be f**king awesome if it could be pulled off, unfortunately i think we have made an extremely complicated mess of things, its not as simple as wiping the debt away even if it were to be done on a global scale the situation that caused the debt would still exist and would carry on.
arschgaudiAug 17, 2010
GM did, with the tacit approval of Obama and his union puppeteers.
Closed AccountAug 17, 2010
Let me just grab a mortgage and a new car. And three million pairs of shoes on a credit card.
drunkcatholicAug 17, 2010
Project Mayhem?
jkalAug 17, 2010
1st rule of.... too late ... FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
jeanparmesanAug 17, 2010
Even if we could, we would need a low level format of Government first.
dukeonkledAug 17, 2010
That would require everybody who we owe something to to agree to that. We could just shake our head and say "What happened <everybody>, you used to be cool." but it's probably better to be responsible.
fatamericanAug 17, 2010
Unlikely. Although we did get out of our Revolutionary War debt to France because king Louis was deposed...
and wait a minute!! China is run by COMMIES!!
Time to incite a revolution in china.
KILL THE COMMIES!!!Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
five35Aug 18, 2010
You sound like one of those late night bankruptcy lawyer commercials.
cranelakeAug 17, 2010
Would that be the same credit agency, which said that Lehman Brothers was doing just fine?
murrdpirateAug 17, 2010
The credit agency is a Chinese company, so I think that's somewhat doubtful. Or at least less obvious.
designnerdAug 17, 2010
The US would have trouble getting an apartment in the US.
spazattack5000Aug 17, 2010
Uncle Sam is getting foreclosed on.
Closed AccountAug 17, 2010
How is having an excellent credit rating a bad thing?
Closed AccountAug 17, 2010
Ugh. If you haven't noticed, we're not doing a good job of trying to maintain that AAA rating.
nimankalAug 18, 2010
Because the highest possible rating isn't good enough?
At least try to make sense.
jameslowellAug 17, 2010
WTF USA
luv2luvAug 17, 2010
it's only going to get worse
toksterjoksterAug 17, 2010
USA needs to get it together.
joshchanAug 17, 2010
how can US have worse credit rating in its own currency than other countries? thats probably not right.
and it is never fair to combine a country with 300 million population to ones with 7 millionComment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountAug 17, 2010
I don't think you understand any of this.
meatyvitaminAug 17, 2010
Think of those sunstantial risks!!!
Closed AccountAug 18, 2010
That has to do with solar fares and the earth's core heating up. You gotta keep those in the equation.
Closed AccountAug 18, 2010
Sunstantial risks are when you can't pay your bill and they stake you to the ground to bake in the sun.
nationalistAug 17, 2010
im gonna guess w/o looking at the graphic or the comments that it's not that good
nimankalAug 18, 2010
Actually it's AAA. The highest is AAA. Number 13 in the world.
Keep in mind Diggers are making these comments, so obviously they suck.
herculesAug 17, 2010
Those idiots spelled Luxembourg incorrectly.
Fail.
cjmacAug 17, 2010
Naw, they're just talking about Luxemburg, Wisconsin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxemburg,_Wisconsin
bewareofthecowAug 17, 2010
Apparently CCC+ also means sunstantial risk, which is much more substantial than substantial risk.
casuallyevilAug 18, 2010
and used an obscure chinese ratings agency as a source, and didn't match colors to the legend, and allowed "high grade" to still be at the bottom of the axis, and didn't explain the local v. foreign currency distinction, etc....
worst infographic ever, which is saying a lot.
Closed AccountAug 18, 2010
No they didn't. It's "Luxemburg" in German, which is an official language of Luxembourg.
According to the dictionary, both spellings are accepted in English usage.
tashikinsAug 18, 2010
Also in New Zealandish, it's New Zeland.
Closed AccountSep 15, 2010
"Groussherzogtum Lëtzebuerg"
oh yeah :P the typical wannabe hercules wheeny;
and clueless monlingual pasty also, most probably.
spazattack5000Aug 17, 2010
Can someone tell me what a "sunstantial risk" is?
briggykinsAug 17, 2010
Don't think I've ever come across a more confusing infographic. I think I'll just invest my millions in Nigeria.
faffcatAug 17, 2010
Dear friend,
I am Mr John Eze, a native of Kano in Nigeria and I
am an Executive Accountant with the Nigeria ministry of mineral
resources and energy.
I have decided to seek a confidential co-operation with you in the
execution of a deal described here under for the benefit of all
parties and I hope you we keep it as a top secret because of the
nature of this transaction. Within the department of mining and
natural resources where I work as an accountant and with the
co-operation of four other top officials we have in our possession
an over due payment bills totally twenty million five hundred
thousand united state dollars ($50.5m) which we want to transfer
abroad with the assistance and co-operation of a foreign
company/individual to receive such funds, also we are handicapped in
the circumstances as the Nigeria civil code of conduct does not
allow us to operate off-shore account hence your importance in the
whole transaction.
This amount represent the balance of the total contract value
executed on behalf of my department contraction firm, which we the
officials over-invoiced deliberately. Though the actual contract
cost have been paid to the original contractors, leaving the
balances in the tune of the said amount which we have in principles
gotten approval to remit by Key Tested Telegraphic Transfer (K .T.T)
to any foreign bank you we provide by filling an application through
the justice ministry here in Nigeria for the transfer of rights
and privileges of former contractors to you.
I have the authority of my partners involved to proposed that,
should you be willing to assist us in the transaction, your share of
the sum we be 25% of the total sum, 70% for us and 5% for taxation
and other expenses .I we like to inform you that the transaction of
this deal is save there is nothing to fear about. Provided you treat
it with utmost secrecy and confidentiality on your part. Also your
area of specialization is not a hindrance to the successful
execution of this transaction.
I have all my confidence and trust in you and I hope you we not
disappoint me. I and my colleague on a year study leave here in
Europe. Content me if you are in interested in this deal and also if
you are not to enable me know my stand. I and my partners are in
position to make the payment of this fund possible provided you can
assure us the safety of our share.
Please remember to treat this matter confidentially because we are
still in service and remember once again that time is important in
this business. I wait in anticipation for your full co-operation.
Accept my special regards.
Mr John Eze. (Acct)
barrettandersonAug 17, 2010
China gives us a moderate rating. Big surprise. We got a green AAA from the other rating.
Closed AccountAug 17, 2010
With that logic no country should have less than a AAA rating until they default.
Credit rating for countries are supposed to measure how much they are debasing their currency and how much debt they have. A country that has fixed money and virtually no debt would be idea to lend to as you expect the same value of your money back (plus interest) and they have no trouble paying it back.
The US is at the opposite end of the scale. Not quite to Argentina or Zimbabwe, but getting scarily closer.
barrettandersonAug 17, 2010
It states on the graphic that it's based on how likely they are to default. While there is certainly more risk than there was in, say, August 2001, I don't see the US being riskier than _any_ other country.
Closed AccountAug 17, 2010
Than any other country? If China or Japan had all their loans recalled in one day, they would suffer but they wouldn't default. All debts could be paid off easily.
You are correct that many other countries owe much more than they have on credit. The US is still noticeably worse when it comes to how much of their outstanding debt they could pay back immediately. They are saved by being the world's reserve currency allowing them to print money to make up the shortfall, but that also compromises the loan giving the accrediting country (or usually bank) a fraction of what the money was originally worth.
So in a way it is exactly like saying, we can't pay you back 100% so we'll just pay you back 10%.
I certainly wouldn't want to lend money to anyone at that rate, especially when you look at US bond rates. They don't even come close to matching inflation. Creditors are essentially "gifting" money to them.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
murrdpirateAug 17, 2010
@Barrett
Currency debasement is essentially a form of default and credit ratings agencies always include that risk when handing out ratings. Why wouldn't they?
barrettandersonAug 17, 2010
murrdpirate: How often is the interest rate lower than the rate of inflation?
Closed AccountAug 17, 2010
Guess what rating S&P gave to Iceland right before its financial meltdown?
P.S. New York-based S&P gave the USA its AAA rating you mentioned.
matzahmanAug 17, 2010
Canada: What the US needs to be like.
joculatorAug 17, 2010
Cold and boring?
jorgenvAug 17, 2010
Norway, What the US needs to be.
joculatorAug 18, 2010
Colder and even more boring?
jorgenvAug 19, 2010
More like, $30 per hour entry level jobs, 0 cost healthcare, 0 cost education, free student loans and scholarships for everyone, most peaceful country in the world, highest living standard on earth, lowest murder rate on earth etc etc etc
Closed AccountAug 18, 2010
jenna jameson,
what more women need to be like
weprinAug 18, 2010
No. Jewel Staite (Kaylee from Firefly).
Closed AccountAug 17, 2010
Norway #1? Aren't they bankrupt?
rahzizzleAug 17, 2010
no you retard, they have the highest standard of living and the happiest citizens. What world do you live in?
mehanAug 17, 2010
You're thinking Iceland.
Closed AccountAug 18, 2010
Oh yeah, ICELAND is bankrupt. Geography fail
tsk05Aug 17, 2010
Their debt to GDP ratio is certainly higher than the US:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt
No idea why they're number one.
timbo1970Aug 18, 2010
Umm, there seems to be something I'm not understanding on that page. If the US has an external debt of 57 Trillion (public and private owed to non residents) how does that come to $8,422 per citizen or 98% of GDP. It should be around 185,000 per citizen, and around 400%-500% of GDP. While Canada's debt is listed at 833 Billion which does come to around 25,000 per citizen.
I think the % should represent public debt alone as a % of GDP, though that still wouldn't add up for debt per capita...
I'm shocked that wikipedia could be wrong, this will throw off all the "research" undergrads do today!
matzahmanAug 17, 2010
Hey I just got this great idea! How about we GTFO out of the middle east, legalize drugs, drop tax cuts on the rich, and demand our money back that we lent to the big banks?
Yah, thats too logical.
five35Aug 18, 2010
I'm with you on all your ideas except dropping the tax cuts on the rich. Like they say, have you ever been given a job by a poor man? The rich already pay the majority of tax revenue in this country.
mnauAug 18, 2010
Nice visualization of income and tax distribution: http://www.politicalmathblog.com/?p=270
casuallyevilAug 18, 2010
the money "you" lent to the big banks was actually from taxes paid by the rich... maybe they want to demand their money back from YOU.
Top 10% of income earners paid 71% of income taxes to the fed, and even more than that with capital gains and estate taxes. Half the people in this country paid none at all.
boner11Aug 19, 2010
I'm not saying that there aren't a few dollars in your points, but the BIG money is in social security, medicare, and medicaid. Any way you cut it.
kthoma22Aug 17, 2010
Funny thing though if China declares war on the US and the US wins it would wipe out all the debt the US has with China.
joculatorAug 17, 2010
And solve the population problem they've been having over there.
Closed AccountAug 17, 2010
Probably *if* we win, all China has to do is stop the lending and they can take over without firing a single shot.
Closed AccountAug 17, 2010
Whoever voted you down has absolutely no idea about economics, you're fully right. All they have to do is piss all their USD into the global market and our dollar will crash instantly and we're done. Game over man.
Sure it would hurt the Chinese alot too but they'd recover far far far faster.
boner11Aug 19, 2010
So, if we are playing monopoly, you are China, and I'm the US. And you keep buying my hotels for "monopoly" money. We are half-way through the game and I just get up and kick your ass and take all of my money back........ the debt is free and clear. I definitely over simplified here. I understand the other players at the table will probably never finance my debt. But if I'm an 800 lbs muscle man, with a huge army behind me, the world will stand back as I stack my fiat currency on my edge of the board. Just talking out loud here... but anyone that thinks the USA would lose to a war against China is completely unaware of the might of the US navy.
drmaassAug 17, 2010
Heh isn't that only a trillion dollars? The smart move would be to declare a war on ourselves and hope we win. That way we could knock off about 8 trillion of our debt and pull a fast one on the world.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
nimankalAug 18, 2010
The vast majority of the US debt is owed to the US
rahzizzleAug 17, 2010
Hyperinflation has been going on for years in the U.S. - ask Ron Paul about it.
tightscrummyAug 17, 2010
f**king busy signal...why doesn't that cheap ass have call waiting?
kingcamAug 18, 2010
How has hyperinflation been going on of years? Last year the inflation rate was <1%? The average rate of inflation in the past 60 years has been 3%
guillauweAug 17, 2010
I'm afraid to see that, especially for France :'(
timbo1970Aug 18, 2010
I wouldn't trust a Chinese analysis of France. It would be like asking Iran to write an unbiased report on Israel's right to nuclear weapons.
While some of those stats may be accurate, the choice of Dagong Global's ratings was chosen for sensationalism.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
guillauweAug 18, 2010
Actually you're right, I'm agree that we can doubt about a Chinese analysis, but whatever, I think it's not completely false hum... just modified truth, cause anyway we are all touch by the crisis... and especially European countries as France because of the €uro, you know as me that our currency is not that good since quite a while now (couple of month)...
eddiepotatoAug 17, 2010
Clinton's budget-balancing in the 90s was just an anomalous bump in the road, says the graph.
arschgaudiAug 17, 2010
Obama took it vertical. No holds barred, giver her all shes got !!!
cdw070Aug 18, 2010
Clinton had little to do with it. His original budget was rejected 6 times by the Republican Congress before he finally put in enough spending cuts to get it approved,
rukooAug 18, 2010
I hear spending more will help
iceman21Aug 17, 2010
If a serious effort was made to eradicate all unnecessary expenses then a country would pull out of debt, cut out the stupid war that i am not even sure what it is for anymore, what goes on in another country is no-one else's business save for attacking an ally or bulding a nuke.
Cut out immigration for good, want to stop people hitching into your country?, control the f**king border and guard it like you guard the place where the usa keeps its gold, kick out all the people leeching off the state with expediency and stop *granting asylum* to anyone for a long time.
That's just the tip of the iceberg, a no nonsense approach to everything would work, you just have to stop f**king around.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
joculatorAug 17, 2010
...cost of being the worlds policemen.
Closed AccountAug 18, 2010
Wow.
catchpenAug 17, 2010
Screw all the A's, misleading to say the least. They need to go by a FICO score or something.
IraDeorum2012Aug 17, 2010
I agree this info-graphic is very misleading the fact they misspelled 2 countries does not help it's credibility either!
is New Zealand not New Zeland
is Luxembourg not Luxemburg
I am sure the margin of error is not huge but still would had like to see a more efficient chart.
joculatorAug 17, 2010
how about a chart of most successful corporations and owners of global brands?
itlnstlnAug 17, 2010
ok who else saw "sunstantial" under what the ratings mean
jhw539Aug 17, 2010
Meanwhile, the people who put their money where their mouth is can't throw money fast enough when the US asks to borrow (based on interest rates the US can get versus anyone else).
tsk05Aug 17, 2010
Why does Germany have a better rating than the US? Their external debt to GDP ratio is double that of the United States, and their public debt to GDP is also higher (hence so is their net debt):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt
Same goes for Norway, which is also on that list, their debt to GDP for both external and public debt is higher than the US...
I am no expert on the matter, can someone explain what else goes into these ratings?
Closed AccountAug 17, 2010
It's all politics. Everybody is tired of us being the leader so they make a self fulfilling prophecy.
Closed AccountAug 17, 2010
Dagong's ratings are pretty different from S&P ratings (which have proven to be horribly inaccurate anyway). They seem to also take into account economic growth, which is why Germany and Norway are higher.
tsk05Aug 18, 2010
"Economic growth is the increase of per capita gross domestic product (GDP) or other measure of aggregate income. It is often measured as the rate of change in GDP"
Here is the GDP growth as a percent of GDP from two sources (IMF and CIA factbook, the IMF is at the bottom with more years but they're all approximately the same):
http://www.indexmundi.com/united_states/gdp_real_growth_rate.html
http://www.indexmundi.com/Germany/gdp_real_growth_rate.html
http://www.indexmundi.com/Norway/gdp_real_growth_rate.html
Germany appears to be growing slower than the US. Norway is either just slightly faster or equal.
Closed AccountAug 18, 2010
Ah.. you're right about Germany (I was always under the impression they were doing well!) although I wouldn't say Norway is equal at all or even just slightly faster.
Anyway, here's the methodology:
http://www.dagongcredit.com/dagongweb/uf/Rating_Methodology_Final(2).pdf
It's much too long for me to read through or understand.
tsk05Aug 18, 2010
I added up the Norway percentages using the CIA factbook data, got 19. Added up the US percentages and got 17. So it's growing at about 10% faster.
I used the IMF data and got about 7%. So yes, it's growing somewhat faster but that doesn't really account for Norway being #1 when it's debt to GDP is significantly higher than that of the US (60%+).
pyrallisAug 18, 2010
Donald Trump was walking along a street, and pointed out a homeless man to his daughter. "See that bum?" Trump said, "He's richer than me." At the time, Trump was a billion dollars in debt. The homeless man had no debt.
The moral of the story is that you cannot judge one's financial standing on debt alone. If the infographic wanted to rank countries on their external or public debts, they would have done that. Instead, they ranked credit ratings--which is a different beast entirely.
Different rating agencies have different methods, but in general, they do take debt into account, but also other things such as payment history, type of credit used, length of credit history, income, default risk, etc. Just like you, as an individual, don't have your credit score assigned purely on the amount of debt you may have. Here is another sovereign credit rating infographic, using a FICO based score: http://digg.com/d31ZNm5
Another point about Norway. It is true Norway owes $550 billion in foreign debt (reference the Wikipedia link above, to the list of countries by external debt.) However, Norway's government is smart--they are rich from oil revenues, but they know oil won't last forever, so they're stockpiling money. They've set up a fund to help them if and when the oil revenues dry up. That stockpile fund has $457 billion in it. http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3421.htm
tsk05Aug 18, 2010
"Different rating agencies have different methods, but in general, they do take debt into account, but also other things such as payment history, type of credit used, length of credit history, income, default risk, etc."
Err true but the US wins on most if not all those counts..
pyrallisAug 19, 2010
"true but the US wins on most if not all those counts.."
Apparently not. Aggregating all those counts, and assigning a final score based on them, is the whole point of the credit rating. If you disagree, feel free to point out where their methodology is flawed.
The credit score is like any other analysis. It simply measures a certain property of the country.
Closed AccountAug 17, 2010
With all the upheaval of us borrowing from China here lately why isn't there a "buy war bonds" like initiative going on?
urmyhartbstoprAug 17, 2010
Not bad, we're doing pretty well. All those fear mongering conservatives are crying for nothing. Fiscal Responsible no more spending, and extend tax cuts wa wa wa. Err... no tax cuts are not fiscally responsible and is arguably the worst thing you can do to deficit.
We're fine. On the right track. GDP 4.5% growth, the forecast recovery is slow growth up to 2012. Not bad, could be better. Waaa double dip recession. No dude, no.
Closed AccountAug 18, 2010
This ranking is based off the Dagong ratings (with the S&P values under). They only rated 50 countries, so it's not really a comparison to the 'world'. The US could easily be lower ranked if more countries had been ranked. (E.g. with Norway and Denmark top-ranked,it's not a stretch to assume Sweden and Finland would end up above the US as well, given that they have some of the strongest national finances in the EU)
cyberclownAug 18, 2010
How about no more foreign aid till we are out of debt.
niradgAug 18, 2010
Buried and Chinese government propaganda.
pyrallisAug 18, 2010
If you disagree with the numbers based on who is doing the math, there are other credit rating agencies you can choose. This page has links to eleven other rating agencies from around the world: http://www.countryrisk.com/guide/archives/cat_country_risk_ratings.html
Wikipedia itself lists sovereign credit ratings based on Euromoney, but Euromoney keeps its information behind a paywall. http://www.euromoney.com/poll/10683/PollsAndAwards/Country-Risk.html
You can still see Euromoney's top 10 list on Wikipedia though, and it actually corresponds well to ranked list shown in the infographic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_rating#Sovereign_credit_ratings
compulsive1Aug 18, 2010
Money is debt- thus the countries with highest debt are historically the richest.
skyler827Aug 18, 2010
there is a correlation, but it is not causation: debt is not wealth. what we all want is wealth in the end, and even though debt is used for making wealth, we should always try to keep the debt under control.
Closed AccountAug 18, 2010
sunstantial risks?
weprinAug 18, 2010
The rating scale goes AAA, AA+, AA, AA-, A+, A, A-, etc... through CCC being the worst rating. What happened to the "F" grade?
Reminds me of public education grades. Teachers get in trouble now if they actually make "C" an average score. "C" these days means failure, and it's often the teacher that gets blamed for it.
lucifersdadAug 18, 2010
It will hurt the countries feelings.
ConstitutionNJAug 18, 2010
This has been bothering me for so long now... how can we justify spending vastly more money then we are making... it doesn't work in private life and it doesn't work in public life... HOW could this have happened to our country.. it saddens me..
manuvaramAug 18, 2010
Chinese government propaganda. Don't forget that investors are making a beeline to buy US Sovereign debt. Feds are able to borrow at ridiculous rates. This implies all those lenders are idiots.
wealthmanagerOct 29, 2010
In our country, Education and Wealth are given.. It just up to us how we use it... Let's just be proud of that!!!...
wikiratingApr 5, 2011
the fact that the U.S. still have a AAA score on their sovereign debt is simply a joke. The rating given to the U.S. by the "trinity" agencies is so political sensible that the agencies are just afraid to downgrade the sovereign debt rating. The financial state of the U.S. public debt does not earn a AAA, which is the highest rating rank!
Because of such political implications and a serious lack of neutrality and transparency of the rating agencies, the credit rating are no worth at all...