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barfomaticFeb 12, 2012
I too dropped out of college after my first semester as I found it not to my liking, I had just got out of the navy and at 21 I felt a little out of place ! Went to work in the field that I learned in the service and spent the next 41 years at it. Retired early because I wanted to not because I had to. In my little corner of the US,I've met many a college grad looking for a job but I have yet to meet a skilled trades person that doesn’t have one.
withearsFeb 12, 2012
The military can be a great option for a lot of reasons.
assassyn360Feb 12, 2012
The military did wonders for me. I learned how to use it to get what I wanted. Use the military, don't let it use you.
barfomaticFeb 13, 2012
Myself, my two boys, and my grandson all work in the skills we learned in the military.
ikorkyiFeb 13, 2012
its not 1970 anymore...there is no way you can raise a family and retire early as a skilled trades person.
barfomaticFeb 13, 2012
My last job before I retired, I made 81K for the year. And that doesn't count my under the table jobs ! Check out what your auto mechanic charges or the plumber or the electrician ! If you can't live on that you need to go back to budget 101!
rxmichaelsFeb 11, 2012
Finally I feel vindicated. However, going into debt is a major consideration. There is a lot to be said for self teaching. Read more books, and not just what they want you read. It is not always, do you know the answer off the top of your head, but do you know where to go to find the answer.
autokadFeb 12, 2012
i think a problem with college students is they dont know that self teaching is still a huge component to college. if you dont do it, you wont get as much from your education
biofriendlyblogFeb 11, 2012
FTA: "If there’s one thing lacking in our education system, it’s a prep course on how to handle money and a reality check for what happens once you graduate."
Very true. I remember the credit card companies going to campuses and encourage students to get a credit card. Then when they couldn't pay them off, their parents got stuck with the bill.
norman619Feb 12, 2012
That should be taught in elementary and again in high school.
craig1958Feb 12, 2012
Once upon a time, there were these things called "parents" who actually taught life skills to kids. Handling money is one of those skills. I'm sure my kids are very tired of hearing that having debt is a very bad idea.
ikorkyiFeb 13, 2012
having debt is essential. if you were a responsible parent, you'd be teaching your kids the importance of evaluating debt, taking on debt, and managing debt all towards economic success.
just like anything else, there exists "too much" debt as well as "too little debt."
if you're running around telling your kids that all debt is too high risk, you're painting an inaccurate picture of the world that will eventually burn them up.
then again, if you lack the ability to responsibly use your credit, maybe you should just stay away from debt all together.
helgersFeb 14, 2012
There was a mandatory money management class in my junior high school. It covered everything from checking/savings & credit cards to how to tip properly. I guess I always assumed some sort of money management training was required in schools, but I guess with them being forced to focus so much on standardized testing, real life skills are getting left out.
bdbrFeb 12, 2012
Reasonable enough. The parents should have been the ones to teach them money management. We certainly did.
wmelnickFeb 13, 2012
Only the morons who could not add. I got my first credit card in college and my second and my third. 2 department store cards and a citibank visa. With them I was able to get a car loan just out of college and bought a house in the early 90s with 5% down (unheard of then) because of my stellar credit. It is not hard to figure out that money put onto a credit card has to be paid when the bill comes.
pivenFeb 11, 2012
Avoiding huge debt is a good thing
withearsFeb 12, 2012
And you can get a great college degree while avoiding debt.
You don't have to avoid education to avoid debt.
meccaydnaFeb 12, 2012
I teach at a community college (technical program). I have some thoughts.
2. (not book smart) we specifically try to bring in those that aren't good at math or other typical subjects so they can get used to our hands-on tech courses first, then learn the importance for "book smarts" later on. Granted we're talking a second year trig skill most of the time, but once students learn how to apply their knowledge they often have much less trouble gaining that knowledge.
5. (experience>degree) extremely true. As long as you are able to "experience" whatever it is you're trying to get a job doing, by all means do it. Although many times you can only learn so much from google/youtube.
6. I'm biased but yes I agree. In my particular college in Michigan we have the need for around 70 job positions per year, for skilled jobs that are $25/hour to start. Yet we produce only around 15-20 degree students per year. We need more!!!
blinker1315Feb 12, 2012
My older son, just this fall, decided after 5 days at college that it wasn't for him. He didn't like the party atmosphere, didn't like the professors he spoke to, and decided he'd be wasting time and money for four years. Instead, he wanted to start his filmmaking/music career right away. And he's working hard now, out on tour now, and making a film next month. At first, my wife and I were upset, since we both loved college, but so far, so good.
elimgarakFeb 12, 2012
Wow, and you let him? No matter how his career goes, sooner or later he will miss those skills that he would have learned in college. Music theory, production, ear training, etc. Film making also has all sorts of things - from script writing to setting up shots. Not to mention that it's never a bad idea to get a rounded education and cover your bases.
craig1958Feb 12, 2012
If he wasn't ready, you have to "let him.". You also have to support him when he discoverers that he needs to go back to college in a year or two. Lots of people need time to do other things, many discover that they need more education to do other things well.
elimgarakFeb 12, 2012
I can see that. But bailing forever, just out of the blue, after only 5 DAYS? Really? He gave up that quickly? That's a very bad sign. Even if it was useless and he didn't like it, sticking with it for a couple of semesters as an exercise in applying himself is a good idea.
craig1958Feb 12, 2012
He must have decided before he even got there. Five days isn't enough time to figure out where the library is. The good news is that he didn't stick around long enough to fail a bunch of classes before quitting (like one of my friends did). He still has the option of going back.
elimgarakFeb 12, 2012
Exactly - he didn't even give it a chance.
rudegarFeb 12, 2012
forced college does nobody any good
elimgarakFeb 12, 2012
Depends on the college, on the type of forcing, on the arguments used, etc. If you make a pact with him that he can bail if he gets good grades after one year, and shows you that he can apply himself, then that would be an OK compromise. It would ensure that he can study, learns to apply himself, picks up some knowledge, and possibly learns to like it.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
rudegarFeb 12, 2012
And them forced grad School ? Forced laybor ? And then forced retirement ?
elimgarakFeb 12, 2012
... What? That makes no sense.
rudegarFeb 12, 2012
Forced College makes sense but no other forced activity does?
elimgarakFeb 13, 2012
Yes. Just like forced grade school, middle school, and high school make sense.
danroFeb 13, 2012
You realize that you can learn all of those things without going to college to get a piece of paper right?
iamthegangsFeb 12, 2012
>> He didn't like the party atmosphere
I stopped reading. Go find a better college.
craig1958Feb 12, 2012
That's just one of the things you tell the parents, not the real reason.
barackalypseFeb 12, 2012
You know I honestly thought your post was satire, culminating in this line that made me burst out laughing "he wanted to start his filmmaking/music career right away". Then your last two sentences raised the specter that you weren't joking. I wish your son well, but I'd be sure and keep a comfortable couch in the basement just in case.
withearsFeb 12, 2012
Just 5 days to make a decision that lasts the rest of his life.
Impetuous.
Good for you for supporting him, but even you have to admit that a decision made is such haste lacks wisdom.
blinker1315Feb 12, 2012
Could be he'll regret it, but the art world is filled with successful people who didn't go to college. I suspect he never really wanted to go, even though he had excellent grades and SAT's, but was conforming to what was expected of him. Finally, he said enough.
Not many people attain wisdom at 18, but he's a smart, well-read kid, and now he's starting out in the work world four years earlier than expected. Maybe he'll have a tough time, but so do scads of college graduates who are now in debt and working (if they can get a job) just to mark time.
craig1958Feb 12, 2012
I hope you will be willing to help him when he changes his mind and returns to college.
statcardFeb 12, 2012
...as much as people love to admit that 'not going to college,' is foolhardy, typically, they are confirming their worth by having attained a college degree. This is a new time, a time of super access to all kinds of information and knowledge. Also, it is a time for alternate delivery systems of knowledge, different from silly, mundane instruction from grad assistants. Your son must self-study, research on his own, mentor experts...always resulting in a more in depth understanding of the particular discipline. Employers hire people based on their expertise and knowledge, not a formal piece of paper. Your son must work hard, however, to develop this expertise. Encourage him.
gt777Feb 12, 2012
Yeah drugs just ended Whitney Houston miserable life!
strongwingsFeb 12, 2012
Way to be. I realized this halfway through college. But I will say this... "I don't iike the party atmosphere, so I'm going to go into the filmmaking and music business!" haha
sleestakslayerFeb 12, 2012
It's really too bad that people see education solely as a way to get a job. I would suggest that you get much more than that, mainly the ability to think critically. The recent discussions questioning higher education have been dubious in nature. It is better to have more smart people than less and the last thing the elements of the American Oligarchy wants is people that can think for themselves.
Yes, the suffocating debt is too big to ignore and I hope that our young people find a way. Hopefully the market will deal with this injustice and offer affordable education.
bdbrFeb 12, 2012
"IF I HAD BEEN TOLD 10 years ago, before embarking on my university career as an English major, that I’d end up working 11-hour days struggling to make ends meet as a freelance writer...well, actually, I would have stubbornly applied anyway."
Her parents SHOULD have told her this. They were probably too concerned with being "fun parents" to give honest guidance about her prospects.
That's no reason to discourage others from getting degrees that can lead to good jobs. It is hard to get a recent-graduate job, even with a good degree, so kids need to have a realistic understanding of what's required.
pinkfish411Feb 12, 2012
The thing is, I don't know how people make it through some of these majors without learning what their prospects are going to be. I was in the humanities and had mostly humanities and fine arts friends, and from day one we all knew what we were getting ourselves into. We constantly joked about it. How you can major in English and expect to become a writer without reasonably expecting to spend several years, perhaps your whole career, working hard and not making much, is beyond me.
valourFeb 12, 2012
The horrid truth is that good writers end up making money, and s**tty writers constantly scrounge. Everyone starts out scrounging, but there is always a market for really good writers. The person who wrote this article is mediocre.
hediggmeFeb 12, 2012
None of these except the expense are good reasons not to go to college. If you can go, you should. You can do all of the things this article mentions here as your main extracurricular.
norman619Feb 12, 2012
"If you can go, you should. "
Why? You shouldn't go just to go.
hediggmeFeb 12, 2012
If you haven't found a purpose for your career, college gives you the free time and connections to try & fail at extracurricular things until you find what you want to do, even if you don't care about academics. Going to go should be the default for anyone unless they can't afford it or has an extreme opportunity cost.
valourFeb 12, 2012
I completely disagree; college should be a means to a predictable end. I've met a lot of people who got a degree in English or History because that's what was interesting to them, or they wanted to be a famous novelist. Huge waste of money. College gives you false paths and a lot of dead-end hope, unless you are into medicine, law, or hard science and math.
pinkfish411Feb 12, 2012
It's not a huge waste of money if it's genuinely interesting and you don't have false expectations. The problem is precisely that many people are doing what you say and treating it like "a means to a predictable end." You're not going to be disappointed with your English degree if you didn't go in expecting it to drop a bunch of lucrative jobs into your lap without hard work and creativity.
valourFeb 12, 2012
English is a perfect example of my point. You don't need to pay $30k/year or more to form an opinion on Proust or write essays and research papers. You can do that just as competently on your own, for free or for the cost of books not available in the public library. Your time and money are better spent focusing on writing things that will make you money. Start a blog and see if you can make it popular. Offer to write instructional guides for open source software projects. Contribute to free newspapers. This is the experience that leads to a real job.
The only reason to pay to go to college is to learn career-dependent concepts and qualifications that can only be found in college. Everything else is a waste of money, unless of course you have the money to spare.
People frequently talk about the "experience" of college and how they found it enlightening or mind-blowing, or whatever. They speak of college like new-agers speak of woo-woo spiritual retreats. They'd be better off treating it like an investment for which they should expect a significant return.
hediggmeFeb 12, 2012
"college should be a means to a predictable end."
No.
Most people cannot accurately predict what they will do with their careers by the time they are 22. College is merely a primer into adulthood that keeps other doors open.
"Huge waste of money" - The price is prohibitive in too many cases. So fix the price--the product still serves its purpose even if you are a C student.
pinkfish411Feb 12, 2012
Exactly. Most people don't even know what their career options are at 18-22, and most certainly have no solid idea of what their real talents and interests are. Tying college education too closely to specific careers is the worst thing that we can possibly do. I can imagine nothing worse that spending four years on a vocational degree and realizing you can't stand the work after a week on the job.
Closed AccountFeb 12, 2012
Nice article. We should do what we want to do or which we can do, if we are better without going to college than their is no shame.
elimgarakFeb 12, 2012
You are right that there is no shame - the only problem is that you don't know whether your life will be better after going to college or not. You can't see the future. However, statistically college is a very good thing, and you should try your best to go.
Closed AccountFeb 12, 2012
agree
norman619Feb 12, 2012
College has become a scam.
meccaydnaFeb 12, 2012
*university has become a scam!
autokadFeb 12, 2012
people should do what i did, went to a private college. i paid insane tuition rates for a college not many people heard of. i would have been much better off going to a state school and taking non-major classes at community college.
withearsFeb 12, 2012
You did that on purpose. I'm digging you up.
hediggmeFeb 12, 2012
None of these except the expense are good reasons not to go to college. If you can go, you should. You can do all of the things this article mentions here as your main extracurricular.
deomo899Feb 12, 2012
It really depends on what you're going to school for. If you are going to school to learn more and not just to get a degree, then I say go for it. A good friend of mine graduated from college last year and is still unable to get a job in her field.
autokadFeb 12, 2012
then she choose the wrong field =|
i think people need to treat their college educations like investments, they need to diversify. do really well in their non-major classes, dual major, study abroad, hit the library for non course work, etc.
warlok480Feb 11, 2012
#6 is the best reason...the world needs Plumbers, Carpenters and Electricians. I agree with the author....when I was in school, the 'dumb' kids were taught trades and everyone else was assumed to go to the University. Even things like being a Nurse, Police Officer or Firefighter was looked 'down' on as 'lower class' work -- In this age of outsourcing and offshoring, these are now the jobs that are the ticket to the good life.
norman619Feb 12, 2012
How about those professions that ask for a degree but really have no need of one?
craig1958Feb 12, 2012
It depends on the job market, if they have plenty of applicants they can require more qualifications and pay less money. I don't know if you really need a four year degree to write computer code, but that's what will be required if there are more applicants than jobs.
wmelnickFeb 13, 2012
I will tell you why - because in college you learn about things like data structure and "game theory" and other things that are the difference between an average-good programmer and a great programmer. I knew everything I needed to know about code in high school - I was even making money coding. However what I leaned in college taught me the theory that allows me to see the best answer to a coding problem quickly and then I hand off the physical coding to an average-good programmer who makes 1/3 of what I do.
withearsFeb 12, 2012
I guess that until they stop asking for a degree, non-degreed people won't be getting those jobs.
A college degree - it's the price of admission.
valourFeb 12, 2012
This isn't true. I have no degree and I just don't put an "education" section on my resume. I've interviewed for 100k/year jobs, and currently have one close to that.
Instead of listing my academic credentials, I focus on my experience, skills, and accomplishments within the industry. Nobody gives a s**t that I didn't pay six figures for a degree. Most of those jobs that say they require a degree to apply? You actually don't.
pinkfish411Feb 12, 2012
The problem is that in most industries, it's increasingly difficult to gain experience, skills, and accomplishments without a degree to get your foot into the door.
withearsFeb 12, 2012
Well, I'll speak about my company. Not only do we require a degree but you must have at least a 3.2 GPA. If you have 3.18, you're out.
It's harsh, but people who have been hired without a degree or who did not excel in college have had a very difficult time competing.
craig1958Feb 12, 2012
You're not going to get a job in those service industries (Nurse, Police Officer or Firefighter) without some post-secondary education. You probably won't advance in any of those jobs without some type of degree. These types of jobs have decent initial pay, then they tend to plateau. There is nothing wrong with them, as long as you know what you're getting into.
kyravonFeb 13, 2012
Yes, our Nursing & Police jobs requrie (at the VERY least) a BA and often some med school experience for the nurses. They're all very competitive. Even the HR & Payroll people supporting those departments need higher education & experience in medicine to get the job.
autokadFeb 12, 2012
you cant advance very far in any of those professions without a degree. and we all know how those professions pensions are being tossed out the door
withearsFeb 12, 2012
Plumbers, electricians, and HVAC are well-paying jobs if you become "the man." If you own the business, you are going to do well.
But if you're the guy who comes out to install the ducts at my house in the middle of summer, you aren't making much money.
Nurse - you're not going to become a nurse or even a physician's assistant without education.
Police Office - Unless you come from a military police background, you need an education.
Fireman - Maybe. But don't expect to rise in the ranks.
barfomaticFeb 12, 2012
Police ? If your too smart you'll get turned down,at least in New Haven.
assassyn360Feb 12, 2012
Go to college.
norman619Feb 12, 2012
What for?
elimgarakFeb 12, 2012
Because on average if you get a bachelor's, you will earn at least 1.5-2x more than with just a high-school degree.
http://www.earnmydegree.com/online-education/learning-center/education-value.html
http://news.yahoo.com/weekly-salary-college-graduates-nearly-double-high-school-080903691.html
This has been repeated time and again. Why are you so against education?
scythefwdFeb 12, 2012
Maybe on average.. but there is always the potential to bust out of that mold. According to the bell curve on Salary.com.. I should be making approximately 17k less than I am now.. on average. He'll,I'm off the bell. The majority of my co-workers are degreed. Many have their masters. I have found that NOT having a degree hasn't been a stumbling block at all for me. That sheet of paper won't automagically make you earn more. It may open doors, but you have to have the talent to make it to begin with. I came into my company as a help desk tech, and have moved on to to both Network Engineering and Systems Engineering. I honestly can't say what my co workers have their degree's in, but very few have one in IT related fields.
And the plus side... I'm 32. Basically 8 years out of college. I'm debt free except for a 90 dollar truck payment, I own two houses. Most people I know that went to college are still paying off loans at this juncture in life, are just looking for a small house they can afford over their loan payments, and are up to their teeth in debt.
IF you can get a further education, then do so.. but don't put yourself into debt for it. A degree to me is worthless, as it wouldn't allow me to get any more money. I don't want to be management...
elimgarakFeb 12, 2012
Yes, you are an outlier. That doesn't mean that everybody can rely on being in such a situation. It means that the vast majority of people without a degree will earn far less.
Bill Gates also dropped out of college. Growing up to be Bill Gates is not a life plan. You start out by trying to give yourself the best chance at life. This isn't it.
Debt is indeed a factor, but with a decent salary you will also earn far more, and chances are you will be able to pay off your debt quickly. It depends on the major and the debt, of course. If you work through college and go to an in-state university, you should be in a pretty good shape within a couple of years. Once again it depends on your choices, luck, etc.
scythefwdFeb 12, 2012
wont catch me arguing that fact. I planned from highschool my path to this job. most people entering college arent that focused.
I dont argue that going to college does provide a stepping stone, but that is all it is. There is a common misconception that degree=money. That i refute... degree=opportunity. Money=ability. You might be able to blow enough smoke on an interview to get a high paying job...but you wont keep it if you cant play for the pay.
I propose that degree==higher earning potential because of traits shared by college students and !degree==lower potential for earning due to habits and traits not possessed by those who didnt seek further education. It isnt the degree... its the person holding it. You dont find many slackers with a degree...and youll find plenty without degrees.
sorry bout punctuation, caps... typing one handed and holding baby with other.
elimgarakFeb 12, 2012
"I dont argue that going to college does provide a stepping stone, but that is all it is. There is a common misconception that degree=money. That i refute... degree=opportunity. Money=ability."
Agreed. The thing is though that you can gain ability at college. You gain many different abilities in college - abilities that will be useful throughout life.
"You might be able to blow enough smoke on an interview to get a high paying job...but you wont keep it if you cant play for the pay."
Exactly. I know some dumb-asses that got into a job because they could bulls**t an interviewer. But they failed. However, I would argue that if you have enough perseverance to finish college, then you will most likely succeed in many positions. That's why college graduates get hired first, even if their degree is not directly applicable - because they demonstrated that they can work and apply themselves.
"I propose that degree==higher earning potential because of traits shared by college students and !degree==lower potential for earning due to habits and traits not possessed by those who didnt seek further education. It isnt the degree... its the person holding it. You dont find many slackers with a degree...and youll find plenty without degrees."
Absolutely - if you push yourself to finish college, you will gain the required traits.
scythefwdFeb 12, 2012
Agreed. The thing is though that you can gain ability at college. You gain many different abilities in college - abilities that will be useful throughout life.
The scary thing is that we have setup a system where children don't learn those traits till they are in college. College is experience.. and that can be gathered in many different ways. To state that you gain many different experiences in college without at least paying lip service to the fact that you can get those exact same experiences elsewhere is a bit negligent.
I have yet to discover a skill that one would ONLY get in college. Research... you didn't learn that doing term papers in high school? If not, your teachers weren't doing their jobs? Critical thinking? You made it through 18 years of life without it? Congrats...Money management? You never held a job before and your parents payed for everything? I'm jealous.
" if you push yourself to finish college, you will gain the required traits." I disagree.. Those traits are what pushes you to finish college... Finishing college, and having to push yourself to do it doesn't instill those traits.. it makes use of those traits to succeed in it.
elimgarakFeb 12, 2012
"I disagree.. Those traits are what pushes you to finish college... Finishing college, and having to push yourself to do it doesn't instill those traits.. it makes use of those traits to succeed in it."
It depends on what we mean by traits. To finish college you need mainly perseverance and know how learn and how to study. All of those can be learned, honed, and acquired in college. Perseverance is the hardest one - it's basically willpower. It depends on your goals in college. If you decide somehow that you must finish college, you can learn and hone willpower.
scythefwdFeb 13, 2012
willpower, preserverance... I think you'll find the people that pass either have it like a pitbull going in and discover what they always have had and they finally have a reason to apply themselves.
scythefwdFeb 13, 2012
double post
withearsFeb 12, 2012
To have a higher earning potential. And be a better educated person.
assassyn360Feb 12, 2012
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k539/ASSASSYN360/c1aeef77.jpg
For more money and better quality of life. That is what for.
craig1958Feb 12, 2012
The short answer is from Animal House; "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son."
barackalypseFeb 12, 2012
1. You are a quitter and won't graduate anyway, so you may as well avoid wasting your time and going into debt and just go apply at Denny's.
2. Lets face it, the World doesn't need any more sociology or art graduates.
3. You are indecisive, you'll just bounce around from major to major and 6 years later you still won't have an undergrad degree. Save the time and debt and go apply at Denny's.
4. Because your band is about to make it big
5. Jobs college grads get suck just as much as any other jobs, the only difference is they sometimes pay more.
6. You are young and pretty and guys will pay $1.99 a minute for you to degrade yourself in front of a webcam. You didn't have any self-esteem or decency anyway, right?
7. You are young and pretty and can trick a guy who did go to college into marrying you and taking care of you, until you turn 40 and decide the utter lack of happiness in your life is all his fault and divorce him and get half of everything (don't feel bad, it was going to happen to him anyway).
Uhh, that is all I have. I guess I should have gotten that creative writing degree after all...
autokadFeb 12, 2012
i'd 'degrade' myself in front of a cam for 1.99/minute
warlok480Feb 11, 2012
#6 is the best reason...the world needs Plumbers, Carpenters and Electricians. I agree with the author....when I was in school, the 'dumb' kids were taught trades and everyone else was assumed to go to the University. Even things like being a Nurse, Police Officer or Firefighter was looked 'down' on as 'lower class' work -- In this age of outsourcing and offshoring, these are now the jobs that are the ticket to the good life.
scout29cFeb 13, 2012
There are no guarantees. Unless you are lucky enough to be born rich, you are going to have to make a living. Going to college will not guarantee a decent income but it increases your chances. The more college you get the better your chances.
It’s true that those who do well in college may not do well in in the work force and visa versa. If I could have approached school like work, I would have done much better and would not have flunk out the first time. I could never work as hard at school as I did when working at a job, but it sure pays better with a degree.
One word of advice: don’t borrow money. If your parents are not going to pay for it and you don’t have enough money, join the military or work full time and go to school part time.
doomesticFeb 12, 2012
Studied medicine outside the US, and it was completely subsidized by the government of that country. Finished residency in the US, and now I'm an MD fresh out of residency in the US with ZERO debt. Get your act together Americans, if third world countries can make doctors with almost no debt, so should you...
dmm219Feb 12, 2012
wow...the entitlement here...
lets refresh our knowledge or what a job actually is:
"somebody paying you to do work that they don't want to do (or have time to do)"
the chances of this prospect being ENJOYABLE to you as well is close to nil. that's the point of what jobs ARE.
cyberdactylFeb 12, 2012
I think that's one of the critical variables of the newly graduated. Many of them believe all the so-called knowledge they have bubbling around in their heads should have society falling over themselves to want and pay richly.
withearsFeb 12, 2012
"my university career as an English major" + "I’m more than a little pissed off about my debt" = someone who chose a poor career path and went to the wrong (expensive) college to get her education.
luke1h7Feb 12, 2012
I'm going to tech school to get in to a career that has lots of people retiring soon, not enough people training, massive job opportunities, good starting pay / great pay later on, possibility to own my own business, lots of growth and no possibility of being sent overseas.
I mean, trades suck! Stay in business school, we need more people being taught how to sell us crap we don't need.
PS. My education is going to cost around 5k. 5k TOTAL. Not per semester or per year, but total. 2 year program. Suck it.
benjie25Feb 12, 2012
Go to college because you're good at something or because you like something(usually go hand-in-hand), not because you can "make more money"
autokadFeb 12, 2012
no. people should make an idea on what they would like to make in life and develop the skills to obtain it. obviously there are certain limitations, for instance if you are not a people person sales is probably not something you want to force yourself into. i see too many people these days study to become something they are good at and/or like doing only to find that just because they are good at it dont mean there are positions out there for them to fill, or come to the sudden realization that they spent a small mortgage to get into a profession that pays very little.
benjie25Feb 12, 2012
How I hate working with idiots who take a profession for the money. Trying to explain to them that they're wrong about something that they're an "Expert" in, without hurting their feelings, can be a tough exercise of word and thought.
Many seem to think because they have a degree in something, that others will listen as they spew out rubbish, when a small bit of common sense reveals what a waste of time and money they are.
Luckily, at my current job, everyone that I have had to talk to seems to not only do well in their duties, but know their limits. I feel as if I learn while listening to them instead of wanting to stab my ear with an ice pick to silence their drivel, like most other jobs. I feel my current work place is a rare gem.
You say too many people study at something because they're good at it, but I think you use the word "good" too loosely.
I'm not sure I share your more "optimistic" sentiment.
justinr93Feb 12, 2012
i only have to give 1 reason debt slavery
benjie25Feb 12, 2012
1. Some things you can learn on your own.
College didn't teach me as much "knowledge", but about how to do research. The greatest skills I developed were how to "separate wheat from the chaff" during research and how to think for myself.
2. You might not be “book smart.”
"Book Smart" people are some of the greatest idiots I have ever met. They can regurgitate any info you want them to memorize, but they have no idea what it means or how it applies to anything.(generalization)
My major was heavily project work based, so it weeded out quite a few "book smart" people.
They may have bested me on quizzes that required memorizing terms, but I tore them a new one when it came to actually meaningfully applying what I learned.
3. You’re not financially prepared.
I started college without a job, got no grants, only student loans. I'm doing just fine. The only real issue I have is supporting my jobless wife's medical bills.(she's not lazy, just not lucky)
4. You haven’t had the opportunity to travel yet.
My college had a ton of GRANTS(free money, not a loan) to travel around the world if you were a student. At the time, $200 was all you needed for a 3 month stay in Europe, which involved something like 5 difference countries. Still recommend more than that if you wanted to do more than just sight seeing.
5. Experience can be just as valuable as a degree.
If you're a consultant or have a trade skill, otherwise "No degree" is a huge show stopper for "moving up the chain", which is actually quite sad. I know quite a few smart people who don't have a degree.
6. Go to vocational, technical, or trade school.
Do what you love. I don't know about other people, but I don't thrift shop for my local trade people. Trust and quality is my main issue and I am willing to pay premium for their services. I've been told many times that I "paid too much" for work on my car, but they do a great job and I love knowing I'm supporting the local economy.
singgihsetiaFeb 12, 2012
None of these except the cost are well reasons not to go to college. If you can go, you should. You can do all of the things this article mentions here as your primary extracurricular.
info-pcgame.blogspot.com
barfomaticFeb 12, 2012
Bill Gate and Steve jobs didn't worry too much about college. Would things be different had they stayed in school ?
diyboatsFeb 12, 2012
College is a good thing but it does not guarantee a good life. You must work hard to have a good life, that is unless if you are a "son" by proffession!
http://www.free-plans.com
rotfoxFeb 12, 2012
I didn't realize that it was necessary to go to parties when going to college. On a separate note, with tuition as high as it is in the states I totally understand not going. Here in Canada a year of College is 5k average, I can barely afford to pay bills, rent and eat on top of saving and paying for tuition. There is no way in hell I'm going to go into debt for something that may or may not even land me a good enough job to pay off said debt.
Capitalism and School don't mix...
autokadFeb 12, 2012
then your too conservative. the way you talk, your the type that wont to take risk so much that you actually risk a lot more (like holding cash while it losses value). There's immense amounts of data showing time and time again that a bachelors degree has HUGE ROI. not only that, college graduates fair recessions MUCH better than those that dont.
like anything, a degree is no magical wound and people should choose what they study and where carefully. but in general, the payoff is pretty good and is worth 'risking'.
rotfoxFeb 12, 2012
Oh no don't get me wrong I'm going through a degree program myself right now, I'm just saying with how tuition is rocket high over there they are making it so expensive that the risk of going broke far outweighs the gains of being able to attain that next tier job.
I do have savings although I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. Its more so for the down payment on my house when I do decide to get one. You just need to have a balance and right now the balance in the states is messed up with everyone wanting things "their way" and nobody winning in the end.
I sympathize with those that would make excuses not to go to college or university... it's a damn mess down there.
autokadFeb 12, 2012
agree, also i didnt mean its bad to have savings, when someone says 'what should i invest in for stocks?' i ask if they got at least 2k$ in the bank for emergencies, and if they say no i say start there. but i know people with 50-100k in cash in the bank earning .002% interest when they could at least be sitting in tax free us muni bonds
scythefwdFeb 12, 2012
2k is not enough. Granted, I'm a contractor... so work isn't always steady (I'm pretty much guaranteed a job for the next 5 years though, lucky I guess) and 2k wouldn't cover a months worth of expenses if you lose your job. Maybe for some people, but a hard and fast 2k rule is a bit ... naive. I strive for 6 months living expenses (not salary.. they aren't the same). I think I 'm up to about 3 now...
autokadFeb 12, 2012
i generally say people should have 2k$ in cash for an emergency, and 6 months money in something less liquid in case you loose your job.
emergency money != loosing job money. emergency money you need the money now, the later can be in something more high interest but less liquid, say CDs or something and maybe some stocks
raineydoreenFeb 14, 2012
College diploma doesn't guarantee a success life, but it is one of your advantage of reaching your goals in life.
adalseyFeb 14, 2012
But how about the psychological inferiority complex some non-college grads constantly face, that isn't being ruled in...worse than you think?
kyravonFeb 13, 2012
But good luck finding a job then, except for our custodial jobs, nearly every job we post requires a B.A. and many want a masters for anything research related.
analogkid1Feb 13, 2012
The author's first mistake: English major.
chrisrokc304Feb 12, 2012
College can be a great thing IF you do everything right. I know lots of people that got degrees in history, literature, political science, etc. and still do not have meaningful jobs. It really isn't anyones fault other than their own because the world doesn't need those professionals right now. However, they need engineers of all kinds, computer science majors, MIS, MS MIS, MBA, Doctors and Nurses. If you go into one of these fields you are guaranteed a well paying job (well MBAs are struggling a little right now). I should know... I went to college and got a Bachelors in Political Science and went to Law School. After a year and determining Law School was a bad investment (15k a semester + low demand for lawyers), I dropped out. 2 years later I have a job with a Computer World IT Top 10 company and have my MS MIS. So don't think College is bad or not helpful, that just isn't the case. You just have to be SMART about what you study.
rudegarFeb 12, 2012
2. is mostly garbage Gardner never did any sort of science research into his supposed 7 intelligences he just put it out there and people felt it was sympathetic and started acting as if it was a real scientific theory (note a scientific theory is more then an idea added a gut-feeling)
melthornalFeb 13, 2012
There is a metric f**kton of scientific evidence for the theory.
kvartyra51Feb 12, 2012
5!
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