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344 Comments
- SQLDigger, on 04/08/2009, -14/+327Of course Reznor also got famous when he was signed to a label. How many performers actually GOT famous and rich marketing themselves, and never signing to a label? The idea that an individual can compete with the marketing power of a billion-dollar recording company is just silly.
That being said, he's right that the recording industry needs to adapt to modern technology more quickly. It's getting there, but it's not quite there just yet... - fanfablebig, on 04/08/2009, -12/+245how about, they sell it for $18.98 and i download it free.
- atomicpoet, on 04/08/2009, -15/+209An innovator of the highest order. His music is good enough, but what amazes me more is how he's able to survive without the assistance of labels. You're not supposed to do that, but he is doing that. Other musicians have tried and failed to capitalize on the internet. He's the only one who's perfected fan outreach on the internet.
- lnxfi, on 04/08/2009, -4/+96I have one thing to say about this:
I work at a book publishing house. We have something called a Royalty Advance we give to authors when they agree to write a book. We then later pay them a % (agreed on in a contract) of all sales. So, for example, if someone gets a $1000 Royalty Advance and is given $5 for each book sold, the do have to 'pay' back the money as well. They will start to be payed once the 201st book is sold. Although, it is still more complicated than that.
Example:
Royalty Advance = $10,000
Royalty % = 5%
Book Retail = $25
Average discount given from the publisher to distributors = 60%
$25 * (1 - %60) * 5% ) = $.50
So, the publisher receives $9.50 a book sold and the author receives $.50 a book sold. That royalty advance is basically an interest free loan that needs to be payed back. So, the author needs to be confident that he can sell 20,000 books then he will make more money on any copies sold after that.
Now, of that $9.50 a book, you need to take away editorial, publicity, promotion, printing costs, shipping costs, inventory/warehousing costs, etc and every other cost that business has even down the the electric bill... plus the risk of it being a flop and sitting on dead inventory and losing money in the deal.
So, the publisher does not make 95% on retail. It's much much less and the author has absolutely zero risk assuming s/he didn't take a huge royalty advance then put out a horrible work.
It's pretty much the same thing and honesty... it makes sense.
We help you get famous and once you are, feel free to break away. - inactive, on 04/08/2009, -1/+64MTV has music?
- TrevorBelmont, on 04/08/2009, -6/+61You're right. Trent's family has money, therefore record contracts are fair.
Jackass. - jmdajr, on 04/08/2009, -2/+57Now if they could only do something about concert tickets. From the price, to the quality of the seats, fans are always getting ripped off.
- Stingwolf, on 04/08/2009, -1/+55"Someone please fill me in."
It may have something to do with the fact that Reznor is experimenting with new business models for music distribution that better reflect the digital age. Typically, this meshes well with the types of people who use Digg. - Rapter09, on 04/08/2009, -3/+52Trent is also a special case in that he is ... well... Trent Reznor.
He's at the point in his career where his name is a marketing force in its own right. But, even Trent needed to start somewhere; he's like an elderly person; He's worked hard for a long time and now he's enjoying his old age pension doing things he loves. Musicians that are not as popular don't quite have the same luxury - they still need to work for their pension, so to speak. - ProfessorSYM, on 04/08/2009, -1/+47The dynamic is changing though.
There are quite a few musicians who are content making a modest living doing what they love, being famous among their fans and peers and not giving a ***** about appearing in US Weekly or some corporate sponsored television show. - xerocorrupt, on 04/08/2009, -8/+39Alright... I like NIN. I have for over a decade now. I'm not an insane fan but I like em. But...
...what is up with digg and NIN? Does digg sponsor them or something? I can't go a day without seeing a story on here about NIN. Nothing wrong with that, I'm just confused. 'story on NIN', 'digg conversation with Trent'. What is the deal? Is the digg community just in love with these guys or what?? Someone please fill me in. - VelvetoneFusion, on 04/08/2009, -3/+33I think Digg needs a NIN section.
- Perdido, on 04/08/2009, -0/+27Then learn how to spell his name. Especially if it´s written in the title, in the article, and in pretty much ALL of the comments here.
And yes, I´m a dick. - inactive, on 04/08/2009, -2/+26Even if he was rich, you think his dad would've lent him millions of dollars? there's not many parents like that. And I don't know if your claims are even true.
- TrashTV, on 04/08/2009, -1/+25Yes, until the artist gives you the option to pay no matter how much you want on their website.
Regardless of who I am (I am not better than you), I paid Radiohead 15$ for In Rainbows which I downloaded a month before it's release, because I wanted THEM to get my money, but I don't pay 15$ anymore for a cd in stores. - thelastcivilian, on 04/08/2009, -2/+25Provide me with high-quality audio files and artwork, and I'll give the artist a couple of bucks if I like it.
- chrisjscott, on 04/08/2009, -4/+25Buried for the lack of source accreditation (Digg Dialog).
- ProfessorSYM, on 04/08/2009, -1/+21There are a ton of bands who do pretty well for themselves from Internet distribution, actually.
You might never hear of them because they have used the Internet to identify their niches and listeners and don't waste time chasing the promise of widespread publicity or distribution to people who don't care about them. - cadmiumpaint, on 04/08/2009, -1/+20i have to agree with you. While the publisher takes the biggest cut, they also take the biggest financial risk. For every blockbuster success there are 1000 blockbuster failures that lose money. The successes pay for risk taking on riskier, unknown talent.
- purkel, on 04/08/2009, -0/+17Music production is a business... and they are in the biz to make money. Its no surprise they screw the artist. They'll screw anyone to make a profit. Anyways, I hope artists continue to use the internet to market themselves and cut out the music labels.
- GothAlice, on 04/08/2009, -1/+18www.tunecore.com
Online distribution record label where you keep 100% of the royalties made on your music. You keep ownership. And the deal is non-exclusive. I've released two albums through them. And released them on Bittorrent, Last.fm, and a number of other sites. - ewethestuff, on 04/08/2009, -1/+18The problem with music, great article:
http://www.petdance.com/actionpark/albini/the-prob ... - diggduggDOOM, on 04/08/2009, -6/+22"The idea that an individual can compete with the marketing power of a billion-dollar recording company is just silly."
It becomes less and less silly every day. Radio audience is down and new music is easily found on the internet. It doesn't take millions to promote yourself on the internet. - Jookly, on 04/08/2009, -0/+15LOL @ "He's the only one who's perfected fan outreach on the internet."
- cadmiumpaint, on 04/08/2009, -11/+26He had no problem with the corporate music machine when he signed his contracts and got huge amounts of cash. He had no problem with corporate support when they were paying for his studio time, elaborate tours, marketing, radio and mtv play and getting him on magazine covers. He had no problem with the label support building him a giant fanbase and making him into a superstar....He only started to have a problem with the record industry when his popularity started to slide, and his music stopped being relevant. He's doing some cool things now with self promotion but thats only possible because he was a piece of the machine for 10+ years. But he'd rather you think he's a self made indie artist who's done it all by himself.
Granted the music industry is completely fu*ked up right now, but he needs to stop acting like he's Fugazi or The Brian Jonestown Massacre trying to pretend he's a DIY artist who's resisted corporate music money for his whole career.You
can count the artists on one hand who could follow NIN footsteps and duplicate his success of going it alone. - Shirleycakes, on 04/08/2009, -1/+16I agree with Rapter to an extent - His experiences WITH a label have taught him how to survive without one, but let's face it - if he hadn't ever been signed he wouldn't be what he is today. Like his music or hate it, he wouldn't have received the widespread attention and fame he now enjoys.
Yes, talent plays a part, but no one can tell themselves in all seriousness that he is SO talented that he could have become what he is today without anyone else but himself paying for it. - dchenning, on 04/08/2009, -0/+15Jonathan Coulton is doing pretty good for himself.
- escottberg, on 04/08/2009, -2/+16not really the point...
(but yes, REZNOR was written all over my high school) - 1longtime, on 04/08/2009, -0/+14"Other musicians have tried and failed to capitalize on the internet."
Not anymore.
Even Metallica wants to copy the Radiohead and NIN model for distributing their next album. (Yeah, the same Metallica that teamed up with Dr. Dre to kill Napster. Oh the irony.) - mc88, on 04/08/2009, -5/+18Bitter Much?
- Zomgondo, on 04/08/2009, -11/+23I still like CDs... but I'll happily burn one at home instead of paying the record company $18.99 for a piece of plastic that cost them a dime. All I ask is that the audio is available in a lossless format like FLAC.
- algaeturd, on 04/08/2009, -3/+15*Citation needed.
Sounds like sour grapes to me. Did that band of yours never work out for you, Peter? - leif77, on 04/08/2009, -3/+15That's pretty cool... most parents aren't supportive of a kid in the creative field...
- ErrorLoading, on 04/08/2009, -2/+14Seeing as how all the stories here are chosen by the readers, yes, probably.
- lnxfi, on 04/08/2009, -0/+12Our contracts are based on sales. Not profits.
If we spend $10,000 publishing a book, sell $2000 worth of it and the author gets 10% of sales, then he gets $200, not $0.
Also, most of the people who complain didn't bother to read the contract to begin with. - shadowman99, on 04/08/2009, -1/+13You might have noticed from TFA that Reznor is going it alone without label support. He self-promotes the band and uses the internet as his key marketing tool. He has a following on digg. So every time he puts something on the web (which is frequently, again he promotes NiN independently without a studio staff to assist) someone on digg is likely to find it and post it here.
It's not rocket science. - quannumkid, on 04/08/2009, -2/+13In his Digg Dialogg he acknowledged the fact that he got big through the traditional industry way. Of course he's able to do what he's doing now because of that, but the fact that he's experimenting with non-traditional ways of music distribution is commendable. He's taking risks because he's financially able to, but he doesn't have to be doing it. During a shaky time to be in the music industry NIN is an example of what could be (free music, multitrack files for remixing, amazing online community, etc).
I don't think Trent's trying to make anyone think he's a self made indie artist. - pipplo, on 04/08/2009, -0/+11Depends..define 'famous'
Atmosphere (not to mention rhymesayers as a whole) does pretty well and they are pretty much all independent - TheSkunkMonkey, on 04/08/2009, -2/+13Before the Internet, the ONLY way for a performer to break into the big time was to sell their soul to the industry. This is why so many early performers died paupers.
Fortunately the Internet has removed that barrier allowing just about any fool to become famous just long enough to actually turn a profit.
Unfortunately is also brings out even more crap that would have never seen the light of day before and for good reason. - scooterbaga, on 04/08/2009, -1/+12Ya you know... the dinosaurs from Super Mario World.
- belleaux, on 04/09/2009, -1/+11And yes the rule still sexists today
- billricardi, on 04/08/2009, -3/+13This is why self publishing that gets you on Amazon and iTunes and what have you seems to be where the industry is going. The most popular one right now is TuneCore, but I imagine there will be many more to follow that are flat fee, artist keeps all commission.
- LordofShadows, on 04/08/2009, -0/+10It's almost like we need a digg for music...
- chriswastaken, on 10/27/2009, -0/+10Reznor certainly makes people think about how much they could make for a single record but he also puts a limit on how much someone would pay for a record.
For example.
The old way: A label would charge 20$ for a cd. That would pay for everything and everyone who worked on the album. And the artist (being a part of the whole process) gets paid 5%. So 1$ for every 20$ sold.
The new way: Everything is cheap (marketing through myspace and recording at home). So an artist can make any album and sell it for $5 and get 20% after using the other money to recoup expenses. But they are only getting paid $1 for every 5$ sold. But they aren't using the resources so they might only sell 10% of what they would on a label. - RealmDown, on 04/08/2009, -0/+9Yeah, during the credit rolls.
- mogwaiinjustice, on 04/08/2009, -0/+9$65 per for great seats, in terms of concerts and theater that is not bad at all.
- wpc33, on 04/08/2009, -2/+11You people are dense. Trent's family was not related to the heater-business.
Is Tommy Lee Jones related to my 3rd grade teacher, Mrs. Jones? No.
In '88, Trent had to scrub the toilets of a recording studio just to be able to use the board @ night. - barc0001, on 04/08/2009, -2/+10Interesting perspective, but books and music are not even close to the same business. There are no "book stations"or "book channels" on radio and tv playing chapters of popular books and there is no infrastructure in place to get electronic copies of books to the majority of consumers. These things exist for music. I would venture to say that in North America and Europe they could probably transition music sales completely out of brick and mortar stores to pure downloads and after a short adjustment period the average consumer would be fine with it, if they wanted a physical disc they already have the tools to make one at home or the office.
The same certainly cannot be said for books. That's one difference. Another is books are more difficult to market, contrasting to music.
Ultimately though, what you describe with the royalty advance is a different mechanism to what musicians go through. I see nothing wrong with the book royalty advance, people are just getting paid up front.
In the music world it's different. The money the band is fronted is used to pay for the production of the work, and then more of it is used to pay for promotion. Here's a far more in depth breakdown on how that works, and quite a good read:
http://www.negativland.com/albini.html
But here's the takeaway summary:
"The band is now 1/4 of the way through its contract, has made the music industry more than 3 million dollars richer, but is in the hole $14,000 on royalties. The band members have each earned about 1/3 as much as they would working at a 7-11, but they got to ride in a tour bus for a month. The next album will be about the same, except that the record company will insist they spend more time and money on it. Since the previous one never "recouped," the band will have no leverage, and will oblige. The next tour will be about the same, except the merchandising advance will have already been paid, and the band, strangely enough, won't have earned any royalties from their T-shirts yet. Maybe the T-shirt guys have figured out how to count money like record company guys." - jgtg32a, on 04/08/2009, -1/+9Because Reznor's actions say "***** the RIAA"
- Thebruce88, on 04/08/2009, -5/+13I agree with you 100%. A label helped him get on his feet, gave him fame, and now he's talking ***** about them. I understand that their deals suck, that they tend to suck the creative freedom away from artists, etc. etc., but maybe I'd feel more inclined to listen to him if he would set up some sort of service that artists could use to promote themselves. Not ***** like myspace or purevolume.
edit: Plus, we can't forget independent labels like The End Records, or other similar labels. -
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