What is Digg?306 Comments
- persianbeh, on 10/12/2007, -8/+160Dugg so that hopefully this story becomes popular to raise awareness.
- jeffdjohnson, on 10/12/2007, -3/+93Hopefully, the guy finds a high-profile, RIAA-hating lawyer that will take on the case pro bono. And yes, I think he should go after the RIAA in addition to the label and individuals involved. If the RIAA feels the need to take on people that "steal" music from "their" artists (enough quotes there?), then I think they should be held responsible when their artists steal music from the rest of us.
Oh, by the way, if you go back and listen to some of Timbaland's early stuff, I think you'll agree that he's been "borrowing" stuff from electronic/techno/drum-n-bass for awhile. - recipher, on 10/12/2007, -2/+41I agree, more people should be aware of this. As a producer myself, I have to say it's sometimes difficult to gauge what kind of samples you can use in production, especially if you are making money. For example, some drum loops are OK to use if you process them enough. If anyone has ever hear The Winstons, Amen Brother, you would be shocked as how many times thats been sampled. Look at James Brown's drum samples too.
I don't think that's the case here. If you are making the money he is, you should be writing your own shiat. - m3mn0n, on 10/12/2007, -3/+42im in ur internetz stealin ur beatz
- eliezerlp, on 10/12/2007, -1/+39Anything you create is copyrighted upon creation.
- sundancekid503, on 10/12/2007, -4/+35I wonder what ever happened to Magoo? Probably off being bitter somewhere with Jazzy Jeff.
- tempestflt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+30I came here to clear up some things...
Seems like many of the people writing here didn't even bother to listen closely to 'Acidjazzed Evening' (referred as AE from now on) and 'Do It' (referred is DI from now on), or are just plain tonedeaf. Maybe it would help if I'd explain what
those songs have and don't have in common. Grab your headphones, because they really help spotting the stuff
in DI that got sampled!
First: the basis of the song DI is the intro from AE. If you want to spot the similarities, then don't listen AE longer than
15 seconds, which holds 16 bars of music (no, DI is not "quoting" AE - 1-2 seconds would be quoting).
There is not a single part in DI that is not based on these 16 bars. In the chorus of DI, the sampled part is cut into
half and only the first half of it is being used, played over and over till the next verse, when the whole sample is
being played again.
AE repeats it's intro-theme at some point, but mainly it goes to another directions. If you have hard time finding the
resemblance between AE and DI, then don't listen AE for more than 15 seconds. This is crucial.
What was sampled?
For DI someone sampled the intro of GRG's C64-version of AE, but with disabling the bass-channel. The bassline was
reconstructed in DI - no, It's not "totally different" than AE's bassline as someone said. It's just a stripped down version, with octave intervals removed (fe. A2-A3 -> A2) and 2-3 notes left out.
There are 6 different chords (of which many are repeated) in AE's intro, jazzy kind of chords that for most I dont even
know their names, but I'll list them here to show that it's not a typical pop-song chord-progression (actually if someone
can find a similar chord-progression, I'll give him a beer or two):
G# C C# F | A# C# F G# | G# C# D# F | F# A# C# F | A# C D# G# | G# C D# F
Each column represents a list of notes used in each chord. It's not the actual chord-progression, but a list of the
6 chords (most popsongs have around 3-4 chords all together) used in the intro, but I think you get the point...
The chords are arpeggiated, which means that the notes in the chord are being played at the same time, but being
rapidly from lowest note to the highest and not at the same time. This is a crucial point for anyone who can
differentiate a clear note from a dog bark and because chords are not usually played like this, unless you're a
superfast heavy metal guitar player, J. C. Bach or a 80s homecomputer-soundchip with only 3 channels available.
But in mainstream pop music? No chance.
The melody? Listen to AE's intro few times and then listen to DI with headphones on. It's all there, playing in
the background. The melody that Nelly sings is kind of a variation of the melody in AE's intro, but the original
melody is also there, in the background of DI! Here's another crucial point; they didn't remove the original melody, but
only lowered down it's volume and placed another melody (which Nelly sings) on top of it. I'd call this counterpoint,
if the the people behind DI wouldn't be such hacks. If you want to verify my claim about the melody, then don't pay
much attention to what Nelly is singing (or the drums) but everything else what is there; bassline,
"background-melody" and the arpeggiated chords.
There you have it. 16 bars of music, a whole verse, which became about 4 verses in the hands of another.
I can't discuss the legal issues here. Let's just say that Big Record Companies are surely the works of The Devil.
Spread the word...
-tempest - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+36Too bad its not a rap song...
When done right, samples in beats sound great. Sample music to produce beats is the nature of the art form. Saying hip-hop producers should never be allowed to sample music is like telling a rock band they should never play electric guitars because the instrument was invented by a jazz musician and should therefore only be played in jazz music. - bikr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+28There's no reason not to issue a cease and desist letter. Just look for some copies online and have him send it to them. They will take him seriousley. Have him provide facts and copies of the letters from Scene.org.
They will most likely offer an immediate settlement. If they don't, you can certainly go talk to a lawyer. This type of case (if you can provide proof) is usually taken with defferred payment. Sort of like those scummy I don't get paid unless you get paid injury freaks. - defectDS, on 10/12/2007, -2/+27Dude, the original MOD is amazing! Is there a link to the rest of this guy's works? Pity because this stuff happens all of the time and there is not much the little guys can do about it.
- tempestflt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24Ok. Something ***** up. I'll try again:
I came here to clear up some things...
Seems like many of the people writing here didn't even bother to listen closely to 'Acidjazzed Evening' (referred as AE from now on) and 'Do It' (referred is DI from now on), or are just plain tonedeaf. Maybe it would help if I'd explain what those songs have and don't have in common. Grab your headphones, because they really help spotting the stuff in DI that got sampled!
First: the basis of the song DI is the intro from AE. If you want to spot the similarities, then don't listen AE longer than 15 seconds, which holds 16 bars of music (no, DI is not "quoting" AE - 1-2 seconds would be quoting). There is not a single part in DI that is not based on these 16 bars. In the chorus of DI, the sampled part is cut into half and only the first half of it is being used, played over and over till the next verse, when the whole sample is being played again.
AE repeats it's intro-theme at some point, but mainly it goes to another directions. If you have hard time finding the resemblance between AE and DI, then don't listen AE for more than 15 seconds. This is crucial.
What was sampled?
For DI someone sampled the intro of GRG's C64-version of AE, but with disabling the bass-channel. The bassline was reconstructed in DI - no, It's not "totally different" than AE's bassline as someone said. It's just a stripped down version, with octave intervals removed (fe. A2-A3 -> A2) and 2-3 notes left out. There are 6 different chords (of which many are repeated) in AE's intro, jazzy kind of chords that for most I dont even know their names, but I'll list them here to show that it's not a typical pop-song chord-progression (actually if someone can find a similar chord-progression, I'll give him a beer or two):
G# C C# F | A# C# F G# | G# C# D# F | F# A# C# F | A# C D# G# | G# C D# F
Each column represents a list of notes used in each chord. It's not the actual chord-progression, but a list of the 6 chords (most popsongs have around 3-4 chords all together) used in the intro, but I think you get the point...
The chords are arpeggiated, which means that the notes in the chord are being played at the same time, but being rapidly from lowest note to the highest and not at the same time. This is a crucial point for anyone who can differentiate a clear note from a dog bark and because chords are not usually played like this, unless you're a superfast heavy metal guitar player, J. C. Bach or a 80s homecomputer-soundchip with only 3 channels available.
But in mainstream pop music? No chance.
The melody?
Listen to AE's intro few times and then listen to DI with headphones on. It's all there, playing in the background. The melody that Nelly sings is kind of a variation of the melody in AE's intro, but the original melody is also there, in the background of DI! Here's another crucial point; they didn't remove the original melody, but only lowered down it's volume and placed another melody (which Nelly sings) on top of it. I'd call this counterpoint, if the the people behind DI wouldn't be such hacks. If you want to verify my claim about the melody, then don't pay much attention to what Nelly is singing (or the drums) but everything else what is there; bassline, "background-melody" and the arpeggiated chords.
There you have it. 16 bars of music, a whole verse, which became about 4 verses in the hands of another.
I can't discuss the legal issues here. Let's just say that Big Record Companies are surely the works of The Devil.
Spread the word...
-tempest - tempestflt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18I'll make one more remark and then I'm out:
"First of all you have to prove that Timbaland heard your track before he made his track. "
Acidjazzed Evening competed in Oldschool Music Compo at Assembly 2000 in Helsinki, infront of more than 4000 people (voters) and won the competition. There are good documents on this. You can of course believe that the whole event never took place, but would require heavy dose of self-deluding and not doing your research properly.
And no, I haven't given the copyrights of AE to anyone. Competing with a piece of music/graphics/whatever hardly ever involves giving up the copyright.
And for the one who talked about "similar chordprogression and bpm": did you read my post? There's 16
bars of melody aswell. Take 16 bars from any any memorable theme and see/hear what I mean...
"Why would he steal from you? He would lose credibility and cash."
You'll have to ask him. I know the whole things sounds very impropable... or does it really? Do we really know how often things like these happen? My song was easy to spot, because of the "C64ish" chipsounds I used, but what about songs that use "regular" instruments? And even if record companies pay compensation for the original composer they "borrow" from, they still might earn more from it than they lose. Loose-album has sold 2,5 million copies already and it's not just about the record sales, but also about touring, gaining loads of money by filling big arenas etc. Nelly Furtado is a product.
...and from what I see, Timbaland didn't lose cash but gained cash!
One more notice: I wouldn't recommend Gloom's video, atleast for "skeptics". He misses some key points there, uses bad set of examples - for example he even uses the later variation of the AE's intro's melody and not the actual intromelody. That's why he has to cut it off quicky, because the end of the melody is a bit different from the one that got sampled in DI. I do have to admit that the final demonstration in the video, with both songs played simultaniously, is charming =). The video might work as a good hint, but don't expect it to prove anything. Do your own research/listening. (There's a good set of mp3-examples as torrent, by some unknown individual.)
-tempest - djkickz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18Also it is common practice in the Hiphop industry not to recieve sample clearences for Mixtapes (which is why they aren't barcoded and not sold in major retailers). If a mixtape track goes big and the label wants to release the single they will then clear the samples. Often entire instrumentals from other popular songs are ripped off on mixtapes. Also record labels don't ussually try to prevent pirating of mixtapes and stores will often sell burned copies of them, since they in fact are pirated beats and vocal tracks. Mixtapes are thought of more as promotional material then an actually money making product.
- ch0pst1cks, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18It's sad because this has surely happened more than once.
- codelogic, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19"Yeah, and what about the millions upon millions of people who steal RIAA music online? That's not low? lol"
It would be low if RIAA actually made the music. Copying somebody else's work and selling it as your own and making lot of money is not the same as downloading a song from the Internet and listening to it. It might be comparable if you resell that download and make money off of it. But there aren't "millions and millions" of people doing that.
Also, FYI, downloading music illegaly isn't "stealing", it's not like if you didn't download the song, RIAA would have made a buck. They don't make or lose money when you download a song. They make money when you buy their records. So if you never had an intention of buying the record, it really doesn't matter (in terms of how much RIAA makes). The RIAA can never lose money, period. They aren't record companies. The make money from every damn sale. - Tairnyn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17The mp3 files have gone to the great router in the sky.
- jakdracula, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20The first Spider Man movie used 2 of my songs in their entirety on the DVD. I tried suing. Lawyers wouldn't touch my case for less than a 100k down payment, even though I can clearly prove I never gave Sony the permission to use the songs. I've never gotten a dime.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17Kweli definitely "understands" IP law.
Many artists will just put out a song - if it goes big and the IP owner sues - the label will pay the IP owner royalties. Essentially, there is no reason to sue if the song is not successful, because there will be no money to be paid in royalties anyway, and the label's lawyers can easily thwart cease+desist demands, which will most likely be very expensive to the average joe/no-lawyer IP owner; thus, there is little reason (right or wrong) for the artist to consider IP law before the song is released.
Kweli is a very perceptive and intelligent human being - he may have had this in mind when he released the track. - tuxidomasx, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18"Its not personal...just business."
--Stringer Bell - cello, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14This video says it all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4KX7SkDe4Q
Replying to first post so everyone gets a chance to see it. - gregmo, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17Rappers don't understand that to use songs you must gain permission.
Talib Kweli stole/sampled Ben Kweller's "In Other Words" without permission and Kweller replied at the end episode 7 of his youtube show of "One Minute Pop Song." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCX54oh0p2o - buckynekkid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Young Dro = garbage
The funny thing about rap is the stuff with a message, or creative, thought provoking lyrics is more popular with white people than Blacks. Dead Prez, Talib Kweli, The Roots all have uplifting messages aimed at Black people, yet white people are eating this stuff up. In the case of Dead Prez, a lot of their stuff is anti-white, black revolution stuff, but white people still compose the majority of their fans.
Anyone who says rap is garbage is entitled to that opinion. Hell, if I didn't know about people outside of what I see on MTV (if I watched MTV) or hear on the radio (if I listened to the radio), then I'd think rap was garbage too. - HappyScrappy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15It's not a rap song.
- spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12I presume if the song was hosted on scene.org that it's a MOD or S3M or IT or something. That's an open source format. It would be pretty easy to show a judge the source by toggling individual channels and moving stuff around.
My heart goes out to this guy. I remember back in the day when it was considered lame to use a 1.5 second drum loop. Ripping off a whole song is despicable. - zombiedepot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Hmm.. P2P is considered bad and stealing, and here you have the music industry stealing to profit.
- phytar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11With the server being down, this is how you can listen to the two tracks.
To listen the original:
1) Download VLC:
http://www.videolan.org/vlc/
2) Download the original mod from here:
ftp://ftp.untergrund.net/users/rez/mod/tempest-acidjazzed_evening.zip
3) Add .mod to the end of the uncompressed file name
4) Open with VLC
To listen to the Nelly track, just watch a horrible YouTube video with it set as the track:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8N4ovp90Ea0 - 3drage, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Your IP is only as good as your ability to protect it.
- WiZZLa, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11@ by sundancekid503 : Actually, DJ Jazzy Jeff is still popular and has sold out shows whenever he is on tour. He's actually considered part of the reason why so many DJs today use Rane's Serato Scratchlive as opposed to Stanton's N2IT FinalScratch. Not only that but he's attributed with developing R&B acts like Musiq Soulchild and Jill Scott. Just because you don't see him getting thrown out of the house by uncle phil anymore, doesn't mean he's not around.
- inchmo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10ftp://ftp.untergrund.net/users/rez/mod/tempest-acidjazzed_evening.zip
here a is a link to the .mod file which can be played in VLC - naldwell, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Yeah, this guy needs to do something to get the ball rolling... five minutes to send a cease & desist letter would at least show that he gives a *****.
- felis, on 10/12/2007, -7/+17Most hiphop nowadays is just karaoke anyway.
- Crass22, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11It was liecensed by the maker of that game, not stolen as the word 'taken' implys.
- MatthewDoucette, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15direct links:
http://www.scene.org/file.php?file=/parties/2000/assembly00/oldskool/music/acid_jaz.zip&fileinfo
http://www.oeoe.nl/timbaland_lamer/tempest_acidjazz.mp3
http://www.oeoe.nl/timbaland_lamer/glenn_acidjazz.mp3
http://www.oeoe.nl/timbaland_lamer/furtado_doit.mp3 - timbalandrips, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Oh, I created this little video and uploaded it to YouTube -- it should really help explaining the whole thing to those unfortunate people with extremely short attentionspans. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4KX7SkDe4Q - HappyScrappy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Kernkraft 400 - Zombie Nation was taken from Lazy Jones on the C64.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11stealing and selling it as your own is another thing buuuddieeee
- WiZZLa, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Nelly Furtado and this song are pop, so that sums up your reading & listening ability.
- mbthompson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8He should go after the RIAA, Geffen, et. al. and charge them "$750,000 per infringement".
- Mar1in, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10This type of problem is easily resolved by you and your buddy finding out where Timbaland is filming a music video and chasing him with a hovercraft. Then when you get to the pier, switch over to go-karts.
Timbaland will lead you to his record producer, but this ploy will backfire on Timbaland because the producer will suddenly see the fraud and your buddy will find his redemption.
M.
Everything I really needed to know, I learned from playing GTA. - sorahn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8did anyone happen to get mirrors of the music? the oeoe.nl site is getting hit pretty hard right now
- foofightrs777, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Yeah..except are we making money off the songs we download? Are we passing off the new hit song as our own work? No, these are totally seperate situations.
- saska, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Or more accurately, your IP is only as "yours" as your ability to protect it.
- tempestflt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Hi again
I_Soar: you were totally right about the arpeggio and yes; there was a typo in my text - the word 'not' was left out due to my tiredness.
This just came to my attention:
Timbaland's "Block Party" at http://msntg.zingy.com/selectItem.php?kind=xt&code=03576
Sounds strangely familiar...
-tempest
P.S. according to Wikipedia, 'Furtado' means 'stolen' in Portuguese. - instalol, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Demoscener's aren't making millions of dollars off of the music they release. In fact, they aren't making anything from it.
- Diggs, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13Kweli doesn't PRODUCE
He is a rapper. Whoever did the beat is responsible for not stating where the sample came from to the label.
So it is the labels fault for not following up on sample clearance, as well as the producer for not telling them who he sampled.
If you are going to hate and talk ***** about a topic, and least get your f*cking sh*t straight... - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Nice insight, djkickz
In fact, Kweli's *The Beautiful MixTape*, which was reportedly unintentionally leaked, has a dope ass version of The Beatles' "Lonely People" - Kweli has performed the track at all four shows I've seen him live at since the leak, but the track will never see a retail album release, because McCartney has the financial power to fight Kweli's label, Blacksmith Records
BTW - the track was produced by Kanye West, and is basically the original melody with a hip-hop drum track, similar to Kanye's "heart of the city" and "takeover" off Jay-Z's *Blueprint* - Glenn0RG, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Thats right,
Timbaland sampled my Commodore 64 arrangement. Its all there, lead using multipulse, chords using filters, and the $11 waveform
beeps i put in at random places (because the sid only has 3 channels).
The sid was released in a c64 disk magazine around 2001/2002, after i got permission from Tempest to do-it.
Its probably sampled from a program that can play back c64 .sid files - because the sounds are so plastic..
Real c64 sid chip got more life..
///GRG - voyetra8, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7The background bed in the Furtado track is 100% Sid.... It may be sampled, but it's a Sid. Not a Triton or Motif.....
- GutterBumber, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Most of the time, people making accusations like this are being paranoid - everyone is using the same 12 notes, and beyond that, everyone is using the same pop/jazz harmonic motifs. But this is a pretty blatant ripoff, mainly because he used the same sequencing/arp'ing synth. I agree with djdragon above... I doubt Timbaland was surfing around for MODs from C64 websites. One of his staff probably jacked it for him... plausible deniability.
- webcrumb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"Hi, I'm Lionel Hutz, Attorney at Law. Would you like a smoking monkey?"
-
Show 51 - 100 of 309 discussions
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is