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172 Comments
- darkchild82, on 06/08/2009, -22/+85Yeah, yeah... Sonic Youth just wants attention.
- headlessclown, on 06/08/2009, -7/+51while i like both bands, radiohead is by far my favorite of the two. their online model was a perfect solution for them for the release of In Rainbows. Even though i downloaded the album for free. i ended up buying a physical copy of the album and the vinyl (not to mention a ticket to see them in glasgow). getting to hear the album when it came out for free was great but i absolutely had to have the physical album in my hands to truly appreciate the art of it.
sonic youth needs to step back and realize that the fans will always support good music. - solid12345, on 06/08/2009, -9/+49Sonic Youth is right, it was definitely a stunt. It worked for Radiohead but for people to hype it up as if this is the future of music is silly. Radiohead could pull it off because they had a 20 year fanbase, newer musicians can't because they need the publicity and marketing which is what a record label exists for.
There is a reason every musician is banging down the doors to get on American Idol and still continue to sign with labels, corporate PR is better than no PR. - firesights, on 06/08/2009, -8/+44Lots of crying to be found in this article. So Sonic Youth is upset because Radiohead didn't have the best interests of other bands at heart? Because, what, the RIAA is suddenly the paragon of being philanthropic to musicians?
- MalarkeyPN, on 06/08/2009, -17/+47First I'm going to say I'm a musician and I've never been impressed by Sonic Youth or really understood the particular appeal of this band. I'm sure they used to be great and they were revolutionary in their time or something. Feel free to enlighten me and turn me on to it if they're totally your fave. But this article has lowered my already low opinion of this band.
Second, what an extraordinarily backwards thing to say! The Internet has completely changed the way the music industry works. Artists now don't need to rely on major corporations (read: get ***** royally) in order to get paid or reach broad audiences. There are tons of different tools at the musician's disposal. What works for Radiohead will probably not work for you. What works for you will probably not work for Radiohead. It's absurd to say Radiohead's making everyone else "look bad" by using this distribution model, because everyone should have their own distribution model! Own it, bitches!!!!
On top of it, Radiohead used this model not to make some political statement, but because they knew (well, hoped) it would work. They knew it was the best thing for Radiohead. The decision was based purely on their own self-interest. It was simple and made them lots of money very quickly. They weren't making a political or moral statement. It was just interpreted that way by people who can't tell the difference between a historic event (Major Band Makes More Money Without Major Label!!!) and the commentary that follows in its wake.
Required reading:
http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/magazine/ ...
http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/magazine/ ... - okgaz, on 06/08/2009, -13/+39Radiohead didn't make you look bad Sonic Youth. You just did a cracking job of it though.
- rashly, on 06/08/2009, -2/+27It's not really complaining. Someone takes a sentence or two and acts like it's complaining. The points she makes are actually correct. Most bands would not be able to do what radiohead did for In Rainbows due to lack of funds. It wasn't just releasing an album for free, it was all of the other things associated with not being tied to a major label that she was talking about. The free download was definitely a calculated publicity stunt. Let's see if radiohead releases all of their albums this way from now on (I doubt it).
Sonic Youth invented a lot of the sounds that are used in rock today. If the Beatles invented the use of feedback in rock, Sonic Youth made it an art. They completely redefined rock music back in the mid-late 1980s. It's not always very accessible, it's more of the kind of music that you have to sit down and concentrate on. Their recent albums will never be like Daydream Nation or Sister, but they still make good music, and The Eternal is their best album in a while.
Radiohead is a great band and you can tell how they've been influenced by Sonic Youth.
For being 50+ years old, Sonic Youth still puts on some great live shows. Look them up on youtube sometime. - RicardoWilliams, on 06/08/2009, -32/+55damn, sonic youth is always complaining about something- maybe if they were making good music, people would actually care what they have to say, but we don't
- letdowntourist, on 06/08/2009, -4/+23I'd just like to point out that Sonic Youth has been creating great music for longer than most diggers have been alive. Maybe they're out of touch with the modern music industry, but to deny their influence on the music being made now is ignorant. If you're looking for a good place to start, try Daydream Nation.
- shazbotben, on 06/08/2009, -1/+20Maybe it's because I'm a fan of both bands...but how is this 'slamming' or 'complaining'? Also, didn't Trent Reznor bring up some of the same points a while ago?
http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2008/03/reznor- ...
I understand that Sonic Youth is not everyone's cup of tea, (and Kim basically comes out and says that it's hard for bands that are not as relevant), but to deny their influence on modern music is pretty silly... - mywhitenoise, on 06/08/2009, -1/+19Sonic Youth made some of the best albums of the 80's and 90's.
- sindex, on 06/08/2009, -2/+20A good band you're apparently too young to remember. Don't worry about it. Either way, they're long past their prime.
- ayeroxor, on 06/08/2009, -1/+16That's what the green button is for, snookums...
- Trax91, on 06/08/2009, -2/+15Sonic in his preteen ages
- DocOctavius, on 06/08/2009, -3/+16If you had READ the article, you'd see her point- Radiohead a HUGE band with TONS of money, paid someone else to pull off the "genius" marketing ploy, which was hailed as some new incarnation of music distribution... it wasn't. It was a one-time thing which made a ton of hype into cash for Radiohead. Other bands who want to follow in that footstep need more than just the will to do it, they need money and infrastructure that most don't have (including Sonic Youth after they left Geffen).
You morons have no clue was original music is, Sonic Youth was crushing perceptions for years before you figured out how to not ***** your pants.
Millions of people actually LIKE a lot of SY music, and all of these pointless "Sonic Youth sucks" comments make you look like snobs. Music is music, and I guarantee your favorite band sounds like ***** to most people, but there's no point in saying it, it just makes people feel bad. Radiohead too, they have millions of fans who love their music, what's the point in typing on digg that you think they could "drop off the face of the Earth." You could say "i'm not a fan" or "noise rock doesn't really appeal to me" and thats fine, but it's presumptuous and foolish to say "they suck"- who knows, you might hear something by them you like in the future and might actually figure out why others think they're so great.
Digg is full of snobs and pseudo-intellectuals. - borez, on 06/08/2009, -2/+14I think it's an old band with a name that no longer applies.
- folkish, on 06/08/2009, -1/+13I'm sure there are other ways to stay relevant. If this story came out when Radiohead actually released the album (instead of a year and then some later) I wouldn't be so cynical... or maybe nobody cared to ask :(
- Chooxo, on 06/08/2009, -3/+14Fair enough, it worked for Radiohead; good for them.
If all musical artists went "pay anything", however, they'd find the novelty soon worn off and the customers willing to pay soon spread thin. - Smokeydabear, on 06/08/2009, -20/+31What's a Sonic Youth?
- moxley, on 06/08/2009, -4/+15Sonic Youth is awesome, IMO better than Radiohead (who is also a great band) - I've been a fan since getting Evol on vinyl at age 15 and loving expressway to yr skull as one of my favorite songs for over 20 years...They are both great bands, but SY has 10 years of classic albums on Radiohead...
What Radiohead did was right for radiohead - it may not work as well for SY because SY doesn't have as many fans as Radiohead; however, I would bet that the ratio of SY fans who would contribute in an honor system would probably be higher..
A lot of people missed her point too - she is saying, basically, that Radiohead was in a position to be able to do what they did and a lot of bands aren't
It kind of does sound like whining if you don't take the time to really read the article and understand what she is getting at- but Sonic Youth is still the *****. - chuckerton, on 06/08/2009, -0/+11Murray Street and Rather Ripped both make compelling arguments that they've also made some of the best albums of the 00's.
- Jektal, on 06/08/2009, -1/+10Radiohead also had the money and connections to produce the album on their own, which was a part of Sonic Youth's argument that the author ignored.
- ferbs027, on 06/08/2009, -0/+8First off, I am an avid Radiohead fan so please don't make any false assumptions. The band have stated numerous times that this "pay what you want" scheme was not the cunning marketing ploy many have made it out to be, at least not intentionally. They finished In Rainbows and wanted to get it out ASAP and someone from management had suggested this earlier. It sounded fun, so they said go for it. This gets too much attention.
- Coffeedemon, on 06/08/2009, -0/+8It is considered "slamming" because the band on the receiving end of it (no matter how innocuous the comment) is a Digg favourite and therefore above ANY sort of criticism.
Its not like half of them read the article. They just assume something bad was said about something they like and, by extension, something bad was said about them. If Reznor said it it would be ok because their love for him would cancel it all out. - Gerz1219, on 06/08/2009, -1/+9I can kind of see Sonic Youth's frustration here. The In Rainbows model worked because it's Radiohead. Everyone knows who they are (because a major record label has spent millions promoting them since the early 90's), and their fan base skews tech-savvy and well-off. Perhaps more importantly, Radiohead is still making relevant music, whereas Sonic Youth has been settling into the post-Tattoo You phase of their career for sometime.
If Sonic Youth had given away an album for free, I don't think it would have been perceived as a "real" album in the same way In Rainbows was. They certainly wouldn't have pocketed $3 million, and the album, no matter how good, would have been dismissed as a B-side collection or worse. And that's for an established act like Sonic Youth with 20+ years of recording history. Upstarts need the legitimacy that comes with an official album release produced and marketed by a major label if they ever want to have a large cultural impact, and that even goes for "indie" sounding type bands that want to play for a larger audience. I don't think we'll see a lot of megabands if the entire industry shifts to a "pay-what-you-want and see us on tour" type of model -- just a lot of niche performers -- and that's a shame, because we'll lose the collective sense of musical identity that comes with widely popular music acts. - leetdood, on 06/08/2009, -1/+8Of course new musicians can't make 3 million like Radiohead did. What MalarkeyPN said earlier is correct- their business model won't work for everybody, which is why every band has to find their own method of selling their music. The current music industry business model is obsolete, which is why people/bands have to move on and ADAPT instead of slamming other people who do.
- ProfessorRiffs, on 06/08/2009, -1/+8You heard the man.
- Takfam, on 06/08/2009, -3/+10Ed O'Brien: Jeez, what a li'l crybaby!
Colin Greenwood: Are you gonna cry all day, crybaby?
Thom Yorke: You know, everyone has problems; it doesn't mean you have to be a little crybaby about it.
Ed O'Brien: Come on, guys, let's go. This kid is totally not cool.
Thom Yorke: Yeah, that's the most uncool kid I've ever met.
Phil Selway: Little crybaby! - EddiePotato, on 06/08/2009, -0/+7Dugg for well structured, well reasoned argument.
- freq, on 06/08/2009, -1/+7NICE! smells like an interview question taken out of context and massaged into a full blown article.
OH NOES NOW WE GOT A FAKE BIGGIE/TUPAC STYLE INDYROCK BEEF WITH TWO REASONABLE ARTISTS WHO IN ALL LIKELYHOOD GREATLY RESPECT EACH OTHER AND EACH OTHER'S MUSIC...
Daydream Nation >* - moxley, on 06/08/2009, -1/+7I would like to know how it is that you think Sonic Youth was "one of the most popular bands in the world 20 years ago?"
That was 1987, when the "Sister" LP came out, it was one of four albums that are just ***** awesome, and though it is still among many people's favorite albums of all time, it was hardly what one would consider popular....I don;t think it even sold 100k copies the year it came out, but that's okay, that isn't what they were necessarily trying to do at that time. - catalysis, on 06/08/2009, -1/+7Can you name one band that has gotten famous and made >$3M with this business model, and has done it without piggy-backing on previous success in traditional marketing/distribution? This is an honest question.
Unless I have missed something, I don't see how you can come to your conclusion when we have still not seen a band become as successful as Radiohead or NIN using any type of internet model. However, Kim Gordon does have an argument that this model is inferior or even unusable for lesser-known bands. Most bands might spend 2+ years writing and recording their music and not see a penny if it is offered this way.
Sure you can say "well let them make money touring" and that's fine, but we should have an honest discussion about the feasibility of this type of business model. - ayeroxor, on 06/08/2009, -3/+9I didn't know there were any mods for In Rainbows.
/nice job, subby - IgorUnchained, on 06/08/2009, -0/+6What else has Sonic Youth complained about besides this?
- letdowntourist, on 06/08/2009, -0/+5Exhibit A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpU7q1d9lAU
I remember being 16 and watching that for the first time, then locking myself in my room with my guitar to relearn everything about it. - ElCheLikesAudi, on 06/08/2009, -1/+6I just have to say this I love Sonic Youth! There one of my favorite band. I understand what she saying thought. If radiohead didn't have such a large fan base it would not have worked. But most of the band I like are giving there music away for free and are better than most but they live of paypal donations that are making things hard on the bandmates. It could work but it a hell lot harder! If major labels die out and indie labels or the band does everything independently become the norm It could work.
BTW: For all those who say Sonic Youth suck. Seriously research before you speak they may not be the best band, (They my fave but I know sound like ***** to most) but there one of the most influentially band out there. - otbeverly, on 06/08/2009, -0/+5Dude, quit making me feel old. Besides, I wouldn't go see Sonic Youth for new material. Same goes for bands like The Pixies, who are pretty good about sticking to the material that made them a name in the first place, Frank Black and the Catholics notwithstanding.
- CaptOblivious, on 06/08/2009, -0/+5snookums... ??? !
- CRCulver, on 06/08/2009, -0/+5For me getting to hear the album when it came out for free was OK, but getting to replace for free those crappy low-bitrate MP3s from the official distribution site with nice FLACs from The Pirate Bay was awesome.
- amirman, on 06/09/2009, -2/+6Sonic Youth > Radiohead
- iggy2012, on 06/08/2009, -1/+5While radiohead on the other hand didn't do much after the single "creep".
Ok Computer and Kid A ring a bell?
How can you know about Sonic Youth's career and not know about Radiohead.
These two bands came out with possibly the 2 definitive albums of the past 2 decades.
Daydream Nation and Ok Computer. Educate yourself kid. - MalarkeyPN, on 06/08/2009, -0/+4The question isn't "can an artist become a megastar with this model?" but rather "can an artist make a good living on this model?" The answer to the former is "we don't know yet," and the answer to the latter is "clearly yes."
Not all artists can give away their recordings for free (as I said, everyone needs the model that works for their situation), but if they want to sell recordings, they have to do so knowing that their customers can get them for free online. You can say "let them make money touring," and that's where most artists have typically made their money. That goes all the way back to the troubadours and probably further. - CyclonusRIP, on 06/08/2009, -3/+7I don't know if I really agree that it hurt other bands, but Radiohead was definitely doing the online release for their own self interest and nothing to do with changing the industry. If they had such faith in that model they should have released the exact same thing online that they later released in the store. They should have also continued to distribute the CD online as they were instead of selling it to a label once they figured they milked the online thing enough. I like Radiohead a lot, but I thought that whole move was pretty disingenuous.
- e1evene1even, on 06/08/2009, -2/+6buried for "While radiohead on the other hand didn't do much after the single "creep"... "
- firesights, on 06/08/2009, -0/+4You don't need zillions of dollars to produce your own album anymore. Modern equipment makes it very possible for bands to create extremely hi-fidelity recordings at a fraction of what it used to cost.
- bryantee, on 06/08/2009, -0/+4Fleetwood Mac is an extremely successful band - and filthy rich. So don't try to say they're suffering now because of downloading.
Plus we all know anything after Peter Green sucked anyways. - dstz, on 06/08/2009, -0/+4"There is a reason every musician is banging down the doors to get on American Idol and still continue to sign with labels, corporate PR is better than no PR."
idol is such a minority of musicians that i don't see the point. A few good musicians are in there, but don't forget those broadcasts also, and before all, make money on making fun of the 95% of people that aren't actually good musicians. Ever been to last.fm and 61? ever heard of amazon.mp3 or itune maybe? we musician don't need pity or riaa, we need to make good songs, and that's about it.
On the other hand, my government's HADOPI law (soon in a country near you) is a direct blow to the capacity of us musicians to promote music through new channels, since p2p "may" be authorized on only a few sites.
But hey, if you want to defend an obsolete industry because you think that radiohead is the only band to find its interest in online sells, more power to you and your favorite riaa bands. But let us the freedom to promote our music the way we see fit. Too bad our government are in the majors pocket and will prevent musicians and listeners alike to bypass industry by destroying free sharing sites from which the buy links and public recognition both come for the many internet friendly musicians (useful sites for bands that indeed haven't had Radiohead's exposure,) see above law.
Always ***** the small guys, nothing to see here i guess. - DocOctavius, on 06/08/2009, -0/+4I am. I will personally hold a gun to Thurston Moore's head if he EVER suggests quitting the band. Word.
It will be a marshmallow gun though... - moxley, on 06/08/2009, -1/+5EPIC FAIL.
Sonic Youth was from the early 80s (1981 to be exact) YOU probably first heard of them in the 90s (which doesn't surprise me). and made most of their best music then - although Murray St. equals some of those early efforts IMO and "The Eternal" is much, much better than Rather Ripped was. - weeFred, on 06/08/2009, -0/+4Haha why is this getting dugg down, I found it hilarious.
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