What is Digg?234 Comments
- PhilM, on 10/12/2007, -3/+34There is no denying they are extrememly similar. I'm not going to vote in the plagiarism pol though because I think only so much music can be produced before it starts sounding similar to something else. There will always be a few out of the millions and millions of songs that sound a like. Very sad if it is indeed plagiarism though.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+34Yep, tons of people.
- monketman, on 10/12/2007, -3/+23http://digg.com/music/Red_Hot_Chili_Peppers_ripped_off_Tom_Petty_
yea this is BS
anyways they speed up the Tom Petty version during the comparisons to make them sound the same - pennyfx, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20I'm a musician and sometimes when you're creating a song or just jamming you end up finding something that songs really cool, but familiar. It's hard sometimes to track it down and figure out if you just created something new and really catchy, or if it's something that you heard a long time ago and are accidentally copying someone elses song. Seriously it does happen. Then once you're finished with the song you realize that it's is similiar to song X. Then it's a test to see if you song is that much different than that song. I've junked songs before because it sounded too similiar to something else and I didn't want to seem like I'm ripping something off.
- Ilyanep, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20"Hell, even if they had played the exact same song with the same lyrics, its not plagerism, its a cover."
...if you pay millions of dollars in royalties.
But otherwise you have a point. I can't even count how many songs have that classic C-C-C-C-C-C-C-F-G chord thing a la ZZ Top. - Mike89, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18I still am..
- Cytranic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16Funny enough thier video is dressing up like other bands...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAC1hvZ_QGQ&search=Dani%20California - iSEPIC, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15Why in the hell aren't their servers being raieded, their homes being raided to obtain evidence and etc? Why aren't they being treated like an every day citizen who just "copies w/o intent to sell" digital content? ***** up world we are in.
- mateo60, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16You're right, they did speed it up. I didn't notice. THOSE BASTARDS!
- Eywanadi, on 10/12/2007, -10/+22Well the problem with saying "only so much music can be produced before it starts sounding similar to something else" is that everyone who was into music in the early 90's remembers that Petty song, RHCP members included. It is plagiarism when you know you are ripping something off.
Also I could see the song having the same cord progression, or the same tempo, or the same lyrical theme, or maybe the same drum beat but ALL of it the same? I am sorry you can do one by accident but when everything is the same it becomes clear plagiarism. - porkmonkeys, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13http://rhripoff.ytmnd.com/
- dandyhighwayman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Petty's lyrics are much better. Does look like the songs are basically about this same subject matter, though Petty paints a much clearer picture of the protagonist.
- michael.calfee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11The first time I heard the opening of Dani California on the radio, I remember thinking, "Is this a cover of Last Dance with Mary Jane?" I even called a friend to tell him about the similarity. As a songwriter, I can tell you, this is not intentional plagiarism. John Frusciante has come up with this chord progression that happens to be the same as "Last Dance," Chad threw the beat on it, and *subconsciously*, the vocal melody and rhythm that popped out of Anthony is similar to Tom Petty's. That vocal groove is locked into everyone's memory, because Last Dance is such a pervasive pop song. Hearing that chord progression, how cold you avoid it. And besides that, the chorus of Dani California is completely different and great in its own right.
- brundlefly76, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9This is common. I have had a garage band for 5 years, and once in a while I will hear a tune on the radio that sounds like one of mine - some times creepily so. I know the radio band didnt hear our song, and I know that I hadnt heard the radio band's, its just coincidence.
This is especially common in songs with limited chordal vocabularies (like mine!). There are only 7 major chords, 7 minor, the rest is rocket science to most bands. Add a drummer who can only play so fast and you get a lot of overlap and derivitave. - liquilife, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Maybe the RIAA should pressure the Swedish police force to raidt the RHCP guitars, microphone and drumset. Then the band can disperse in Holland, Russia, Ukraine and a yet to be named European country to continue their silly chord progression stealing!
- Bakkster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Let's compare this with another incident, both involving RHCP:
1) Mary Jane's Last Dance v. Dani California
2) RHCP's "Pretty Little Ditty" v. Crazy Town's "Butterfly"
1) Same key, chord progression, rhythm. Sounds similar back-to-back.
2) Same key, chord progression, tempo, rhythm, timbre. Oh, and Crazy Town also played the main riff note-for-note.
As similar as they may sound, this is a very difficult case to prove. Many other events have been more notable and still not considered plagerism (like any pop star that samples classic rock riffs). Sorry to take the wind out of your sails.
^ and the riff from "La Grange" is just another common chord progression in blues. ZZ Top wasn't the first, and they weren't the last to use it. - uncleLeo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9http://www.wgmd.com/SOUNDS/FEATURES/051706-petty.mp3
- h0zae, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11http://www.wgmd.com/SOUNDS/AMSHOW/052606-hour2.mp3 from the show --- the mashup is towards the middle of the mp3...
- scottpatricks, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10As a guitarist I know it sometimes is easy to write a song that sounds familiar to another song. There are times when I write something that I think is pretty bad ass until I play it for a friend who says "That sounds like that one song," and damn it, it sometimes does. I think I often miss the similarities in a song I write to another song because I am not thinking about that song in particular, so I think I just wrote something amazing. Maybe this is the case for the Chilli Peppers. Somebody wrote something and the rest of the band followed suit because they subconsciously remembered the Tom Petty song, but never realized it, all because they thought somebody from their band wrote it. How it actually got as far as it did without somebody saying "that sounds like that one song" is pretty amazing though. It usually takes a friend all of five seconds to call out something familiar that I write, and then I'm all pissed once I realize they are right.
- GioCav, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I just lost all respect for Vanilla Ice. =)
- viewsource, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8So THAT'S why the song sounded so familiar the first time I heard it. I can tell the similarities right now, but don't know near enough about music to be able to pick out chords or drumbeats. It'd be cool if some one could take out the singing in both songs.
- porkmonkeys, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9actually he tried to convince people that it was nothing like queens song. It was obvious that he directly copied it but he tried to say that he didn't
- stevelucky, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8i've heard this song many times and i can honestly say that it never crossed my mind that it was ripping off petty. and i do play guitar and am well aquainted with pettys stuff. now that i'm listening to it, the verse chord progression is obviously the same, but for me if they're ripping off anyone, it's themselves. half of the chili peppers songs sound the same (well, the new stuff anyway). anthony's lyrical style doesn't have much variety.
- Ilyanep, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Also: Someone said above that one of the songs is sped up. Chord progressions are fairly standard -- I have a jazz guitar book that outlines many chord progressions. Etc.
- beejay, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Flea came out like a month ago and basically said "I'm so sad our CD is on the internet to download. We worked so hard to make this record. If you steal our music, it will break my heart. It will break anthony's heart..." blah blah blah
http://www.redhotchilipeppers.com/news/journal.php?uid=213
Yet Flea apparently has no problem breaking Tom Petty's heart...
Also, listen to Green Day next to the Kinks. The entire band is a modernized kinks ripoff, and they even do a few covers.
"Dedicated Follower Of Fashion" becomes "Fashion Victim"
"Dandy" becomes "Jackass"
And I found like 5 more one night, but I can't remember off the top of my head. - ronmexico, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Word to your mother!
- merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"...if you pay millions of dollars in royalties."
Actually, the royalties on cover songs are exactly 8 cents per CD. So, if I cover "Last dance with mary jane", and sell 100 copies to friends, I owe tom petty 8 bucks. If you sell a million copies, it'd be $80,000. It's never really millions. - pjh3000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Last Dance with Mary Jane is about the last time you smoke pot.
- DrEbola, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8It's not even quite the same chord progression. The Peppers use Am G Dm Am... Tom Petty uses a D major where they use a D minor. You can hear the dissonance when they play the two songs on top of one another. Besides, the vocal melodies are not that close.
Even if the chord progressions WERE the same, you can't sue someone for a damn chord progression. The same chord progressions have been used over and over again and it's a talented songwriter who can bring something new to one of them. Lovin' Spoonful took a chord progression from the Supremes (I think) and had a hit (Do You Believe in Magic). Nobody bitched about that. - aldenhg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I wasn't so much pissed about his ripping it off, I was pissed that he lied about it. There's something to be said for taking someone else's work and using it in your own to give it new meaning - It's done in art all the damn time. Artists just call it appropriation. When you appropriate something you do have to give credit for it, though.
- daworld, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6You know, I still remember that quote that he used to tell people that it isn't Queen's Under Pressure. He tried to the media that he had an extra 'ting' compared to Under Pressure. If you find find the quote, you'll truely realize that Vanilla Ice is a huge tool...
- spectre_25gt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I'm wondering at this point whether it might have been an intentional tribute. The video certainly seems to be.
- gaza, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Didn't know if everyone realized this, but both songs are produced by Rick Rubin.
- bowe, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8That's because the vocalist for the red hot chili peppers is practically singing in a monotone. The rhythm and progression are almost identical in the intro. The only variation is with a couple of accent notes.
- dandyhighwayman, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8I've heard the Petty track a million times, but I haven't heard the new Chili Peppers song 'til now. The progression is a pretty common V-IV-I-V progression in both, and the tonic is minor in both examples as well. I guess I can see the similarity stylistically, but I wouldn't call them all that similar overall.
- moglenstar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5dani california - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K5j4rxqP-w
mary janes last dance - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JAVMy_gBvI
too similar to debunk. - spikeismoo, on 10/12/2007, -9/+14They're far too similar for it to be a coincidence.
- Svenson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I think some people just showed how young they are
- notdarkyet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5this is kinda like what happened a little while back when nickelback basically rehashed their first hit into another one and everyone fell for it.
check this link out to listen to both songs at the same time:
http://www.*****.net/nickelback.htm - Alchemeron, on 10/12/2007, -9/+14I don't know... sounds to me like Tom Petty is plagiarizing Bob Dylan's voice.
- chesterpoop, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5According to the band, the drum beat is lifted... from a Wu-Tang song. I clicked on the link prepared to be shocked and appalled by the similarity between the two songs. Frankly, I'm not impressed. I think there are definitely similarities between the two. However, the chords are phrased differently. The guitars play completely different rhythms. The choruses sound different. I'm not even going to argue that the two vocal melodies are all that close. What does match is the chord progression. However, I'm not about to call that plagiarism. "All Along the Watchtower," the chorus of "Layla," the last section of "Stairway to Heaven," the verses of "While My Guitar Gently Weeps," and countless other '60s and '70s songs along with many contemporary songs, Damien Rice's "Woman Like a Man" comes to mind, all employ variations on the VI-V-IV chord progression and usually in the keys of either C (A minor) or F (D minor). For good reason, it's a really catchy chord progression... easily my favorite. I'm not about to accuse any of those artists of plagiarism. Especially this the progression in question is simply VI-V-II in the key of C (also known as A minor).Considering that the Chili Peppers predominately write in C and F and that they favor hitting the VI and V chords often in their songs, I'm willing to consider that it was simply a coincidence. Reviewing the musical content of Chili Pepper albums from Californication forward and looking at the chord progressions and chord phrasing in songs written in the years prior to Dani California leads me to believe that it was just something they stumbled upon. I also do not believe its fair of the radio jockey to compare 4 measures of each song completely out of context of the entire piece, speeding and slowing those fragments to match up, and then not allowing the listener to form their own opinion to be at all fair to either artist. It seems more like a yellow journalistic attempt to garner attention than an earnest critique of music.
- muddo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Exactly. It is very difficult to come up with an original idea. Many believe that there are no original ideas, just rehashes of old themes.
As a musician and 20 year student of music theory, I find this conversation thread silly.
Almost every song that Led Zeppelin released was far closer to plagiarism than this RHCP track.
Almost every hip hop song from the 80's and 90's were direct copies of Parliament/Funkadelic tunes.
Music is for enjoyment. - studiorats, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6All rock and roll and Rap is derivative. It's a fact not a smack. With a little research you'll find most melodies derive from the classics like Bach, Mozart, etc. That's not a bad thing, but it does make composing music a real challenge. Consider these examples: George Harrison's "My Sweet Lord versus the Chiffons' "He's So Fine", or Vanilla Ice's "Ice Ice Baby versus David Bowie/Freddy Mercury's "Under Pressure". Usually the courts determine that eight bars of music possessing the same chordal structure and melody is cause for copyright infringement (plagarism). But those judgements can be appealed (I cannot cite any examples, cuz I just woke up).
The bottom line is Music is for everyone. And if it sounds familiar and you're profitting from it, you'll somewhere down the line be litigated. So just keep rocking and let the lawyers sort it out...that's what you pay them to do. - AaronHeth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The style is a bit similar. It had to be sped up to sound closer though. Maybe there was some inspiration, but I don't think it was a direct rip. The radio station skewed the Tom Petty song a bit.
- lysdexic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Derivative? Yes. Plagiarized? No.
Different choruses. Different tempos. Common chord progression. Simple drum beat. Different picking rhythm and melody in the verse. - rustyrobot, on 10/12/2007, -14/+18you cant trademark tempo, key, chord progression, and lyrical theme. That is rediculous.
Im going to accuse the black eyed peas of plagiarism because sex is the lyrical theme in many of their songs just like the rest of top 40 music, and they just happen to have a song in the same tempo and key as another! - mateo60, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Good God those are similar!
I'll still give them the benefit of the doubt that it was unintentional. They're talented musicians and have written TONS of songs. I'm sure they weren't saying "Hey, lets rip off "Last Dance With Mary Jane, nobody will ever notice." If they were going to rip off a song, I'm sure they'd try to do something more obscure. Also, there are only so many chord progressions in this world. - stacey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4lyrics to both songs:
RHCP Dani California
http://lyricsfly.com/search/view.php?cd39232ff6&view=313214
Tom Petty Mary Jane's Last Dance
http://lyricsfly.com/search/view.php?ee5d8b49f9&view=156310 - C0MF0RTABLYnumb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Producer Rick Rubin recorded both "Mary Jane's Last Dance" with Petty and "Dani California" with the Red Hot Chili Peppers.
- kgool, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5What didn't The Strokes rip off?
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