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160 Comments
- ScottMcIntyre, on 12/28/2008, -7/+103I guess this throws a whole new light on the 'MC' Rappers ;-)
- souljaboytellem, on 12/29/2008, -3/+45Ah yes who can forget "My kilt hangs low"
- WhoDoneIt, on 12/29/2008, -5/+46Marshall MacMathers?
- Reinvent, on 12/28/2008, -23/+60This is 'revisionist' history at it's best. Scots have absolutely NO hand in present day hip hop/rap! Come on, guys, that professor has FAILED in proposing an accurate time line and his theory is weak. Call and answer has been part of many different cultures throughout antiquity. Geezus... this has to be one of the most ludicrous articles that I have read in a long time!!!
- vinceislegend, on 12/29/2008, -2/+34Stop, collaborate and listen, laddie.
- Stuffburger, on 12/29/2008, -2/+27Please show me a timeline with examples of how the style traveled from Scotland 1000 years ago to annoying me every time someones ringtone goes off. I don't think there is a connection, merely similar styles cropping up again.
- vtbarrera, on 02/03/2009, -3/+24Tell this to the fellas from Queensbridge.
- TheEggAndI, on 12/29/2008, -4/+23so white people just cant stop til they take *everything* away from the black man
- inactive, on 12/29/2008, -0/+18Whaaa? Don't you know that everything originated in Medieval Scottish Pubs? That's where Adam and Eve first hooked up and Moses parted his red Tartan!
- Yossarian022, on 12/29/2008, -1/+19Since when were slaves rapping? This seems like something out of the Onion.
- Spuy767, on 12/29/2008, -1/+18You mean like the discovery of america, or the revolutionary war, or the conquering of Gaul, or the betrayal of julius caesar, or the crossing of the delaware river by general washington, or the french revolution, or napolean's exile, or the bronze age, or the building of the pyramids, or the burning of the great library in Alexandria, or vlad the impaler's war with the turks, or the rise of spartacus, or. . . ok, this could go on for days.
- uberpsycho, on 12/29/2008, -0/+16"Dirtin Dumbar, quhome on blawis thow thy boist?
Pretendand the to wryte sic skaldit skrowis;
Ramowd rebald, thow fall doun att the roist,
My laureat lettres at the and I lowis"
OHH SNAPP SON!!!! - inactive, on 12/28/2008, -1/+17'The Flyting of Dunbar and Kennedy', full text:
http://www.geocities.com/bescritt/theflytingofdunb ...
although it is a bit difficult to translate! - Spuy767, on 12/29/2008, -2/+18I see what you did there. And I love it.
- weeFred, on 12/29/2008, -0/+15"Ignorant elf, aip, owll irregular,
Skaldit skaitbird, and commoun skamelar;
Wan-fukkit funling, that natour maid ane yrle,"
"Skaitbird" - is it just me, or did we also invent skateboards? - junkwheel, on 12/29/2008, -5/+20I care not for where it came from, I would however like to know where it will end.
Grab your dick if you like hip hop. - enantiodromia, on 12/29/2008, -2/+17Even the title is wrong.
Rap "Music". This theory says nothing about the music aspect of rap, just the concept of two poets fighting with words. And if I read this article correctly, these were not even free styles, considering the author offers a written example of these so-called "rap battles". - poidh, on 12/29/2008, -0/+14Ice is back...... because it's cold in Scotland.
- milarepa, on 12/29/2008, -0/+14My kilt grabs a hold of me tightly
- metaperl, on 12/29/2008, -0/+13"rap" exists in many forms of music --- "hip hop" is an urban phenomenon where there is rapping over a dj mix...
rap is nothing but rhythmic rhyming. - TheBigSquid, on 12/29/2008, -6/+18Of course, because white people have never invented anything.
- NyteStarNyne, on 12/29/2008, -0/+11Oh, no wonder Flava Flav wears a viking helmet.
- ZincSaucier, on 12/29/2008, -0/+11It would not be ironic, a surprise like this.
- poidh, on 12/29/2008, -2/+13Yeah, I heard about all those old ginger guys in kilts dissin' their bitchez, slappin' dose hoes, covering themselves in gold and buying enormous spinnaz for their ox carts.
- stickstickly, on 12/29/2008, -0/+10Flows like a keg, daily and nightly
- Raian, on 12/29/2008, -3/+13So does that mean black folks in to hip hop attire are the new wiggers?
- dagr8tim, on 12/29/2008, -4/+14That still proves part of the point of the original article. The "battle" format isn't exclusive to African Americans and wasn't invented in NYC in the late 70's and early 80's.
It developed independently in many cultures at different times. No culture can claim responsibility for the creation of rap/the battle format. In fact the "Fathers of Rap", ripped the idea off from many different cultures through antiquity. Your post seems to support that theory as well. - ChloeMS, on 12/29/2008, -3/+13I think these "academicians" need to turn in their degrees!
First, rap and "the dozens" are two completely different things. Rap is a style of music (though I feel that hard core rap is a genre all itself and not as much music as it is bitching) whereas "The Dozens" is a style of word play. I mean the two are are as different as hot and cold. There is a common source though, and it isn't Scottish, it's African.
Rap, like Big Band, Blues, Country, Folk, Jazz, Gospel, Hip-Hop, Rock, R&B, and Soul, all have their roots in African music. Hard to believe? Well just think about what the primary music style was in America when the colonists first arrived. It was all based on what we today call Classical music. There was some "world" music, but for the most part, it was all derivative of Classical too. This is because of the effect of colonial rule that dispersed European traits around the world.
But after slavery ended in America, the influence of African music began. Blues music, the song of slaves, was already heard of during slavery. Rock caused the explosion in genres we have today. And no, Elvis is not the "King" of Rock (and Roll.)
Now, "The Dozens," or one "up-manship" as we sometime called it on the streets, can be playful but can also be dangerous. Standing on a street corner playing "The Dozens" was a favorite pastime in my neighborhood. I am sure that other cultures may have also had versions of this behavior but African Americans took it further than the vocal discourse. Their very bearing was a kind of "The Dozens." It appeared in the clothing you wore and the money you had (material things,) and your stature in the community. This behavior can be traced back to tribal roots. The chief was the most outspoken, the most colorfully and opulently dressed. He had the most beautiful wives, the most and biggest homes. And because of this, he was looked up to by all the others in the tribe. The males all aspired to be the next chief. This is the root of many African American traditions apparent today.
So, that is my opinion on the Rap origins debate. I base my opinion not only on education, but on experience too, the greatest teacher of all! - JasonAdams13, on 12/29/2008, -1/+10NO! That's the most perfect response to an article I've ever seen on digg, and you were the first comment, why did you have to put the winking face!
- Spuy767, on 12/29/2008, -0/+9I can paint a picture of an alien probing my rectum, but that doesn't mean it happened. most paintings of historical events happen long after the event.
- Stormwern, on 12/28/2008, -2/+11Funny, blues is scottish aswell :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77tJIxSfYik&fea ... - icabodane, on 12/29/2008, -1/+10Dumbar just got SERVED!!!
right? - ZincSaucier, on 12/29/2008, -0/+9ironic that in attempt to demonstrate absurdity you compare it to a song that really did get it's hook from a much older song with non hip-hop origins
- DigitalisAkujin, on 12/29/2008, -1/+10You sir, are awesome.
- ratherred, on 12/29/2008, -0/+8The article says that 'The Flyting of Dunbar and Kennedy' has been described by academics as "just over 500 lines of filth".
I can totally see someone at a rap concert saying, "Holy *****, Lupe Fiasco just spit over 500 lines of pure filth!" - pushforpeace, on 12/29/2008, -14/+22Sorry white people, but you can't steal this one away.
- bjs3171, on 12/29/2008, -1/+9no, probably the inspiration for city kids to write poetry, and do something creative.
- trafficlight, on 12/29/2008, -0/+8What?! Talk about awesome!
- dmpdpete, on 12/29/2008, -5/+12Agreed, call and response has been the basis of african music before the age of slavery, and has continued on into all african american music: R&B, Jazz, Blues, Soul, Rock n' Roll (yes Chuck Berry came before Elvis), hip-hop, etc. The only american music that isn't based in african roots are things like Country and Folk music. This is such a vague connection. Battling evolved just like the other elements of hip-hop and I would assume is more closely tied to how breakin' started, as a way for gangs to settle disputes in non violent ways.
- LeekMibles, on 12/29/2008, -1/+8Buried for being freakin' retarded. First, as others have already said, "battling" has been around for a very very long time in Africa. Second, even if battling originated in Scotland it still isn't RAP. Battling is a part of rap just like turntablism is a part of DJ'ing and graffiti and breakdancing is part of Hip Hop.
If you were to use the logic of this article then you could say that the tango originated in a cave in Africa some 100's of thousands of years ago when the first humans got overly joyous after killing some food and started hopping and spinning around... - ZincSaucier, on 12/29/2008, -0/+7well that's just stupid
- ZincSaucier, on 12/29/2008, -0/+7it was the south bronx
- marv0, on 12/29/2008, -4/+11I'm scottish. This has opened up new doors and new opportunities. I will now venture into the rap community and "get my up and comins"
Thank you dear Academic. - weeFred, on 12/29/2008, -0/+7You've obviously never been to Glasgow then.
- wilhoitm, on 12/29/2008, -0/+7Redefining the origination of Rap is a conspiracy since we have taken their White women! ;-)
- MogusMaximus, on 12/29/2008, -0/+6Only the ones with disproportionally large asses. You can have them.
- milarepa, on 12/29/2008, -0/+6The bridge is over the bridge is over!
- jmontes, on 12/29/2008, -2/+8Yeah, and Marty McFly invented Rock & Roll. White people invented all of the coolest stuff.
- Nashco, on 12/29/2008, -5/+11Damn, black people can't have anything.
I am failing to remember the last "RAPPER" that came from Scotland. This article is laughable. - SelfAbortion, on 12/29/2008, -0/+6Do you not know what poetry is or how it works?
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