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RIAA doesn't want to pay for a fair defense, says victor

arstechnica.com — The RIAA is fighting a request for nearly $300,000 in attorneys' fees after it was told to pay Tanya Andersen's legal bills. The RIAA says that her attorney should get at most one tenth of that amount.

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  • sinrtb, on 03/27/2008, -1/+90Double standards from the RIAA? I think it would be shocking only if the RIAA did something good for others or its industry.
    • amphoterous, on 03/27/2008, -0/+17Yeah no kidding... whose fees are excessive now.
    • fkr3, on 03/28/2008, -5/+4Double standard or not, if you read the article the woman's lawyer arbirtrarily doubled his fee because the case was "high risk and successful". Since when is a court case high risk to the lawyer (outside of Sicily)? Why does the lawyer get an extra $150,000 for winning? He's already being paid for his work.

      If anyone performing a service for us decided to literally and arbitrarily double their fee we'd be disputing it too.
      • FuzzMop, on 03/28/2008, -1/+13Seeing as the RIAA likes to sue for an even higher amount for each SONG, I doubt that this is an issue. $7000 per normally $.99 song is a little excessive, don't you think? That's like 7000 times the original price.... and that's just one song! The RIAA needs to cough up the money.
        • fkr3, on 03/29/2008, -0/+1The price the RIAA demands is a deterrent. Do you think a rapist should only be fined the cost of an abortion or a thief made to pay only the value of what he stole?
        • Mattarang, on 04/01/2008, -0/+0But aren't we dealing with damages here? If I stole and lost your bike, I should have to pay the amount of the bike to you. If you used your bike for work (ie: you're a newspaper deliverer), than I would also have to pay you in lost wages. However, you can't ask for 100 or more times the amount you lost solely because you want to send a message to "evil-doers."
    • jabberwolf, on 03/28/2008, -0/+3300,000 only?!
      The RIAA should get sued for 3 million in punitive damages. They should learn it costs the them money to boss people around !
    • sk11, on 03/28/2008, -0/+1The law only applies to ordinary people, not the RIAA. ;)
    • toonworld, on 03/28/2008, -0/+2$300 000 / 540 hours = $555/hour.
      Sounds like an attorney fee to me!
      • Junel, on 03/29/2008, -0/+1Good way to put it in perspective, it's one thing if the charge was awarded for damages to the client, but just for the attorney it is excessive, BTW ***** the RIAA.
  • konamax123, on 03/27/2008, -0/+139Any victory over the RIAA just gives me a warm feeling all over.
    • LightSpeed4, on 03/28/2008, -0/+0I’m sorry to say this is the music theft community reaping what they’ve sown. If you don’t believe that copyright enforcement of feasible and/or ethical, if you believe in the “marginal cost approaching zero” argument entitles you to free access, then this is going to be the end result. The idea that the media industry is just going to roll over and die isn’t just wishful thinking, it’s delusional. Every argument for why the RIAA is wrong or music labels are obsolete can be used by these entities to strengthen their cases for new laws in Congress, in individual lawsuits, and in proving their worth to their current and future artist clients, because all you’re doing is perpetuating the legitimate perception of the internet community as being hostile to the rights of artists and copyright holders. I fully expect to see an media industry lawyer citing posts like this in a testimony before Congress to prove that their point that the Internet community has no respect for copyright law and that extraordinary enforcement and taxation are necessary to protect American businesses.

  • mojojeetsoo, on 03/27/2008, -1/+110A payment of almost $300K is not much to the RIAA, considering that they can extort that much from grandmothers and college students in just a few days.
    • mGARANDEUR1, on 03/28/2008, -0/+5Yeah especially since they can just have the colleges send out emails and have the students shell out money without even bringing them to court.
    • bingobongony, on 03/28/2008, -15/+2Those poor college students. They really SHOULD be alowed to do whatever they want without any fear of penalty...because they are poor.
      • andycr512, on 03/28/2008, -1/+14You're right. They copied bits - I can't think of anything more evil. Let them rot in jail!
        • bingobongony, on 03/28/2008, -6/+2Theft is theft. Period.

          Your silly worthless opinions on what is legal are not law.
    • prisoner24601, on 03/28/2008, -0/+2"Defendants like Ms. Andersen... should be allowed to defend themselves as aggressively as the RIAA prosecutes claims against them,"

      How much did the RIAA spend? Seriously, there's the funny irony in this. If the RIAA is now (as a formal complaint in a court filing) saying $X is too much for the defendant to have spent then doesn't that immediately give Andersen the right to find out what the RIAA is spending on lawyers? And (important note) NOT just what they spent on THIS case. Any judge should reasonably understand that the RIAA lawyers have a huge advantage in "recycling" leg-work done on one case in another, so Andersen was really defending herself against not only the specific lawyers assigned to this case against here, but also all the staff who had worked for the RIAA on other cases in the past as well and prepared the basis for their action against her.

      Come clean RIAA. Just exactly how large is that 900 lb gorilla all these single moms, grade schoolers, and even dead people are fighting against? Do you spend $1 million a year on your army of lawyer-droids? $10 million? What is the real number? I can't wait for Groklaw to go through the details on this which now (hopefully) the RIAA will be forced to divulge.
      • MaxD, on 03/28/2008, -0/+1_Completely and utterly off topic_, but how do you go from 'lb' to 'pound' I mean 'Kilogram' -> 'KG', 'Centimeter' -> 'cm', 'Newton' -> 'kg m/s^2' BUT it's also kind enough to go to 'N', however POUND doesn't have an 'l' or a 'b' in it... What gives?!?!

        [Nb: In the spirit of full disclosure, Wikipedia says that it comes from a Roman unit similar to a pound [Citation needed], but that doesn't really answer my rant]
    • LightSpeed4, on 03/28/2008, -0/+0college kids are void from the law now? wow didnt know that!
  • tj111, on 03/27/2008, -0/+48This will be one of the few cases you will see anyone on this site rooting for the attorney. I hope they get the $300k, anything less will set a precedent and prevent other possible defense attorneys from taking the case against the MAFIAA.
  • spudfrog, on 03/27/2008, -1/+52They're just hurting themselves in the process. They're losing ground in the public eye, and such frivolous abuses of the law only hurts their legal prowess.

    ***** THE RIAA.
    • nekochan, on 03/27/2008, -1/+16did they ever have any ground in the public eye?
      • CryRightardCry, on 03/27/2008, -3/+8Not since Valenti lied about VCRs back in the day.
        • andycr512, on 03/28/2008, -0/+4That was the MPAA, though they are more or less two peas in a pod.
    • BlueSkyfish, on 03/27/2008, -3/+29Saying "***** the RIAA" isn't effective, since they're essentially a giant scapegoat. You should direct your anger to the companies that compose the RIAA.

      ***** EMI
      ***** Sony
      ***** Universal
      ***** Warner

      If you want to do something, avoid these companies like the plague. Boycott all their products and let them know you won't put up with their *****. Especially avoid Sony, Universal, and Warner, since they're also members of the MPAA.
      • lysdexic, on 03/28/2008, -0/+5Couldn't agree more! With rare exception, I've been buying strictly from indies and directly from artist's for a few years now. I don't miss the big four at all. In fact, I find so much good music from indies that I don't even bother acquiring the big labels' music through other means...
    • tony23, on 03/28/2008, -2/+6"They're losing ground in the public eye"
      No, they're not. Go ask 20 random people on the street, I'll bet most of them have never even heard of the RIAA, let alone care about them.
  • Sajentine, on 03/27/2008, -0/+54It's rather typically of these douchebags.

    They're basically claiming that she shouldn't be allowed to defend herself with a decent lawyer and should have gone with an ambulance chaser instead while they had up to 6 lawyers prosecuting her.
  • nomadxx7, on 03/27/2008, -0/+76What's funny is the way that the RIAA said that each song people download is worth like $700 instead of the $.99 the defendent claimed. Now they claim she is being excessive in her and her lawyer's pursuit for reimbursement.
    • bingobongony, on 03/28/2008, -26/+3What is funny is that you are still a dumb ***** who can't grasp the fact that they are not being sued for STEALING the song. Hence, it is not worth 99 cents. And even if you were, it is funny that you are so ***** stupid that you think if you get caught stealing something that your punishment should be to pay for it.
      • kxmjb, on 03/28/2008, -3/+9Holy *****, I hate you so very much.
      • Xenufield, on 03/28/2008, -0/+6Wow, I see someone had their cheerio's ***** in today.
        And apparently saw their dog hit by a car and girlfriend cheat on them with their best friend.
      • MsArtGeek, on 03/28/2008, -0/+2Theft is actually a crime, punishable in criminal court. But the RIAA is suing in civil court. Copyright infringement is not always a crime; the crime happens when people do it for commercial gain or on a mass scale.

        Lawsuits do not get convictions, that's just silly for you to think it works like that. You can sue someone for damages or you can charge them with a crime or both, but one does not guarantee the other.

        Copyright infringement - the key word here is INFRINGEMENT - is not the same thing as theft. If it was theft, the original would be lost to the owner forever. There's a reason we have different words for different things, ya know.

        And, as a separate issue, the RIAA has lost all sympathy they might have ever had by repeatedly showing themselves to be the equivalent of thugs shaking down kids for lunch money.
      • iainc, on 03/28/2008, -0/+3http://digg.com/odd_stuff/Bingobongony_Trolls_all_ ...
  • Falldog, on 03/27/2008, -0/+52Ought to sue for anywhere between $750 and $30,000 per every four minutes of his life wasted.
  • staxofmax, on 03/27/2008, -16/+28I'll wager that the RIAA will be dead within two years. I haven't purchased a new CD in about 3 years (thanks to g2p.org), and I don't know many other people that have either.

    What do you think? Digg me up if you think they'll be gone by the end of the decade, digg me down if you don't.
    • Professr, on 03/27/2008, -1/+20We'll digg you if we feel like it, not because you told us to. Nice try though :P
    • mewoot10, on 03/27/2008, -7/+3I Bury you, but not because i think that the RIAA will still be here in a decade!
    • DeathJux, on 03/28/2008, -0/+5Corporate conglomerates that ride on solid gold ships made of, and fueled by, money don't disappear overnight. It will not be a sudden death, but a long drawn-out process, which will take years...
    • bingobongony, on 03/28/2008, -6/+1I'll set up a PayPal account just to make that bet with you. You are a fool.
      • Millsee, on 03/28/2008, -3/+3Ah, I know you - you're that person everyone is laughing at because you have nothing decent to say, and you're an ugly *****, inside and out!

        Must be hard to know you've got a whole life to live with the sex life of a slug..
    • Xenufield, on 03/28/2008, -0/+1Dug you down because the RIAA will never die because it'll just get government subsidies.
  • czeman, on 03/27/2008, -1/+18Hmmmmmm......what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander, eh? These greedy corporate bastards really ***** me off. I bet they're not even living human beings.
  • herecomes, on 03/27/2008, -11/+9You can't even fight a traffic ticket for $30K. Cheap ***** bastards.
    • kashk5, on 03/27/2008, -1/+13What law firms have you been going to that charge $30k for a traffic ticket? Because I'll be sure to send them my resume once I'm out of law school
      • herecomes, on 03/27/2008, -8/+4You should look up 'hyperbole' in that Black's Law Dictionary of yours. And I suggest that you make conveyancing your legal specialty, as a man of your credulousness would be an obvious asset in real estate transactions involving fictitious properties.
        • bingobongony, on 03/28/2008, -6/+1hyperboles are only effective where there is SOME semblance of truth to it.
          • herecomes, on 03/28/2008, -3/+5And that is the case here. Lawyers are expensive. You ***** retard.
        • mpdid, on 03/28/2008, -0/+3Wow way to tailor your post to the average Digg reader. I understood it but the douchiness of your post reeks.
          • herecomes, on 03/28/2008, -2/+0'Douchiness' -- ouch! I wouldn't want to match wits with you.
      • slippiefist, on 03/28/2008, -0/+5Incidentally, I fought a ticket in September. A lawyer would've cost me $3500. The ticket was $170. So I represented myself, and I won. The light was yellow, my passenger testified to that, I don't run red lights. Oh, and, ***** THE RIAA
  • MarkDykeman, on 03/27/2008, -1/+10Pay they must. Do, there is no shirking.
  • thinman1189, on 03/27/2008, -6/+4I haven't bought a CD in years...unless you count the Axis of Freedom I got at the RATM concert last summer.
    • mewoot10, on 03/27/2008, -6/+3You are the reason why radical groups like the RIAA exist.
      • andycr512, on 03/28/2008, -0/+6He never said he committed copyright infringement - just that he hasn't purchased a CD in years. I haven't purchased a CD in years yet I can't remember the last time I downloaded a song.
      • thinman1189, on 03/29/2008, -0/+1For a long time I just didn't listen to anything new, now I use Slacker.com and can't live without it.
        People like you are why these radical groups will fail.
    • bingobongony, on 03/28/2008, -5/+1Thanks for sharing.
  • slvrbullet87, on 03/27/2008, -0/+14How much do the RIAA lawyers get paid per case?
  • jjive, on 03/27/2008, -1/+5People do desperate things, when they realize that their cash cows can make more money without them.
  • Calcularius, on 03/27/2008, -6/+13All together on 3...
    1, 2, 3.
    DOUCHBAGS!!!!!
    • wgasa, on 03/28/2008, -7/+2...and that sounds really gay cuz its DEUCHEBAG
  • airwalkery2k, on 03/27/2008, -0/+32I love the irony of the RIAA complaining of excessive legal fees.
  • piXelatedEmpire, on 03/27/2008, -0/+6Is anyone actually surprised by this?
  • PacketScan, on 03/27/2008, -0/+6They Pay no one but them-selves.
    Not even the artists!! for which they represent..
    Only time will bring a investigation into this racket.
  • SilverBlade2k, on 03/27/2008, -0/+73They call $300,000 in attorney's fees 'excessive' when they turn around and think $750 per song is 'inadequate'?

    RIAA..GO TO ***** HELL. IF YOU CAN'T TAKE IT, DON'T DISH IT OUT.
    • TonyLocNE, on 03/28/2008, -0/+1What I don't understand is the fact that they think $550/hr. rate is excessive for an attorney... *****, I know of an attorney who charges $900 an hour.
  • falafelkiosken, on 03/27/2008, -0/+12excessive? I didn't know the people at RIAA knew that word
  • DaviDTC, on 03/27/2008, -0/+22In a brief filed earlier this month, the RIAA called the $298,995 figure "excessive" and said that it should be drastically slashed to something along the lines of $30,000

    I wonder I can use that if they try and sue me? "The $200k they want for the 4 songs is excessive, here is the $4 it would of cost me if I used itunes."
  • cidman2001, on 03/27/2008, -1/+12Heheheheheeee...I love the idea of charging the RIAA $750 for every 4 minutes spent fighting them. At 540 hours, that come to $24,300,000. Could I have that in small bills please....
  • skyz, on 03/27/2008, -0/+12they overvalue their songs and undervalue the attorney's worth - it must be nice to make all the decisions in your favor but life is not like that for anyone
  • megaton, on 03/27/2008, -1/+11Who the ***** is Victor?
    • MScrip, on 03/28/2008, -1/+3"What the ***** is juice"

      /Dave Chappelle
  • Pinkertinkle, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1How many hours did this attorney spend defending this lady?
  • bdpf, on 03/27/2008, -1/+1Judge; $300k not excessive, not enough! Try $750K! Cut back on your lawyers fees. Don't forget to see the federual prosacuter when you leave.
  • hollyminkowski, on 03/27/2008, -0/+2RIAA are too cheap to give a single penny of the suit monies to the artists..so this is just typical for them..cheap money grubbing bastards! :-(
  • Willravel, on 03/27/2008, -0/+8They're lucky that she's only asking for $300k. I'd be asking for 10 times that, in an attempt to ensure that they pay for their crimes.
    • bingobongony, on 03/28/2008, -1/+2And you would have more chance of getting nothing if you did. She is asking for a fair amount which makes it FAR more likely that the judge will side with her. You would likely walk out with nothing for being greedy.
      • andycr512, on 03/28/2008, -0/+3"You would likely walk out with nothing for being greedy."

        Being greedy seems to work wonders for the RIAA.
      • Willravel, on 03/29/2008, -0/+1It's not about greed at all. After paying legal fees, I'd be totally willing to donate the rest to charity or something. No, the point is making that RIAA and MPAA understand that their practices have real world consequences.
    • mabhatter, on 03/29/2008, -0/+1Isn't this the case where the judge used THEIR lawyer fees because her lawyer worked for free or cheap and didn't know what was fair to ask for. In short, they were charged on the same scale they use to charge other people attorney fees as damage.
  • SHv2, on 03/27/2008, -1/+6"the fees sought are excessive 'in numerous respects.'"

    where have i heard this line before... ***** the RIAA
  • av4rice, on 03/28/2008, -0/+4RIAA Motto: Anyone who actually does any work shouldn't deserve more than 10%

    Applies to lawyers and artists.
  • TheZorch, on 03/28/2008, -0/+9Failure to obey a court order like this could lead the RIAA to receive a "contempt of court" charge. That could involve both hefty fines and JAIL TIME. I have no sympathy for these asshats.
    • bingobongony, on 03/28/2008, -6/+2EXcept they aren't just failing to obey a court order, you stupid *****. They are legally challenging the ruling due to the amount. No contempt charges are possible.
    • juicebag, on 03/28/2008, -0/+1I assume they could pay themselves out of that behind the scenes anyway.
  • defektiv, on 03/28/2008, -0/+3correct me if i'm wrong, but is this not something they have no business deciding? all they can do is present their case and accept the verdict. its not up to them to decide what happens with anything they're forced to pay. or am i way off base here?
    • TonyLocNE, on 03/28/2008, -0/+2I believe they are appealing the judgment.. They haven't said, "we aren't going to pay this, ***** off."
  • D3koy, on 03/28/2008, -0/+3They weren't told to pay a set dollar amount, they were told to pay the legal fees...I bet Tanya wishes she had several more dinner meetings with her lawyers now...
    • mabhatter, on 03/29/2008, -0/+1this is the case where the judge set HER fees by using what THEIR lawyers would have charged if she lost the case.
  • MazeKaz, on 03/28/2008, -2/+4***** THE RIAA
  • TripcodeMel, on 03/28/2008, -1/+2I want to see Judge Judy tear these assholes a new one.
  • pentupentropy, on 03/28/2008, -0/+2Unfortunately, it's pretty hard to come out victorious against them. As per slashdot lawyer interview, judges seem to side with them unilaterally.
    http://www.nospintalk.com/content/view/70/2/
  • orlandorays, on 03/28/2008, -0/+1All they're doing is costing themselves even more money, having to pay their own lawyers extra in addition to what they're going to end up paying the defendant's lawyers. Which is every damn cent they were ordered to pay.
  • FuzzMop, on 03/28/2008, -2/+1The RIAA is so damn cool. I hope they charge her for those two songs composed in 1789 that she downloaded illegally!
  • say592, on 03/28/2008, -0/+1Its the RIAA, for some reason I was expecting this.
  • jm4847, on 03/28/2008, -0/+1"Fair defense"? There is nothing fair about the RIAA using the law to extort poor people over some ***** laws that wouldn't exist today if it wasn't for that greedy douchebag called Thomas Edison.
  • nailPuppy, on 03/28/2008, -0/+1RIAA. Aren't those the guys that couldn't pay back artists/managers because all of the money they have won in court went to legal fees?
  • AvangionQ, on 03/28/2008, -0/+1"Even as exonerated file-sharing defendant Tanya Andersen pursues her malicious prosecution case against the music industry, there is some unattended business left over from the RIAA's original copyright infringement lawsuit. After the RIAA threw in the towel on its lawsuit against Andersen, she sought and won an award of attorneys' fees. The two parties are now trying to settle the bill, and the RIAA is only willing to pay one tenth of what Andersen's attorney is seeking." ... such is the risk of filing frivolous or malicious charges with the hopes of bullying the person through a process of extortion into settling the charge ... I'm glad to see more of these decisions sent out by the courts, as it will encourage the MPAA and RIAA to discontinue their litigious practices of attempting to repair their faulty business model through lawsuits ...
  • SuperUncool, on 03/28/2008, -0/+0This made my day.
  • rawg, on 03/28/2008, -0/+1I hope the RIAA lose this one and it sets a precedent. At a minimum, it would discourage the RIAA from carpet bombing people with frivolous lawsuits based on weak evidence. Imagine the feeding frenzy it would create for lawyers, $300K a pop just for filing motions for dismissal.
  • darthom, on 03/29/2008, -0/+1Screw the RIAA. Make them pay ten times as much. Stick it to those censoring assholes.
  • tylerromes, on 04/04/2008, -0/+1anyone remember Jammie Thomas, and that frickin lawsuit that cost her half her life? well, i found the playlist of the songs she dl'ed. hilarious.

    http://www.nutsie.com/playlist/The%20Jammie%20Thom ...

    i say we all go to the RIAA offices and bust some skulls....
  •  

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