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Musicians Increasingly Oppose RIAA

techdirt.com — One of the encouraging things over the past couple of years has been the increasing number of artists who do seem to get digital technologies, and figure out ways to embrace them.

Who dugg this? Made popular Jun 6, 2006

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  • MalDON, on 10/12/2007, -0/+51I fully support independent artists.

    Besides, better music is made when a studio isn't pressing the artists to get an album out.
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+46I fully support kicking the RIAA in the nuts.
  • merdiesel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16Im in an unsigned band, and we just finished recording our music, got it protected, and then posted it on certain music torrent sites (dont want to mention site names), Its a great way to get your bands name out there.
  • Zonkzor, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16Allot of the time since there isn't any quality control, independent CDs aren't that great. But when a good one comes by, the WHOLE ALBUM is good instead of two songs.

    While we're on the top of independent artists, I would really like to pimp out this techno group I just found. This is seriously some of the best music I've heard in awhile. Plus it's all free Creative Commons licensed. Seems like something you would hear in a movie. http://www.pronobozo.com/the_music.php

    This is just one of many shining examples of music that can turn out great even without the RIAA's money behind it.
  • Rampart, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Yeah, ditto, I admire that you don't want to spam, but I want to know too. Consider my interest piqued.

    And even if this is a clever rouse to get people to make this very request so you don't seem like you're spamming. You've still got my interest for it being clever.
  • halicon5, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Sorry this thing goes on for a bit... it's a bit of a passionate subject for me. If you're not interested, just push [PAGE DOWN] or use your wheel mouse or something...

    Stick it to the RIAA. As a musician in a band I see nothing good coming from the way the labels treat consumers. Why is it that I can buy a DVD for less than a CD? I can guarantee the movie on the DVD cost far more to create than most music albums. Personally, I feel the RIAA is biting the hands that feed.

    [docillenstein] Why is there this perception that someone trying to sell a CD is violating some sort of ethical principal? It's a product. The musician is selling it. This is part of what they do for a living. You should barter what you do for a living for what they do for a living. If you're a grunt in the office and your job is near worthless, you should offer some of your earnings to them. [docillenstein]

    I don't think you quite understand why musicians do what they do. It isn't unethical to try to make money on your music. I'd love to make money on my music (occasionally I do), but I'm happy just giving people something to enjoy. Most other musicians are like that... until they get that taste of big money. If they are doing it for money, they aren't musicians... they're just noise tycoons making money by making a bunch of noise. I'll concede that you do have a few valid points, but the fact of the matter is the current model of distribution is broken badly. 50 years ago, yes, musicians needed the record labels because they had the means and resources to get a musician's vision and passion out to the general population. Without the labels, most musicians in New York would never be heard of in California or even most places in between without an excessive amount of self-promotion. It was necessary, and musicians jumped onto many contracts and a lot of them got screwed while label execs and managers made fat cash. But the fact of the matter was the musician got what he/she wanted- Exposure. The label got what they wanted- Money. Equitable? Not really, but still acceptable.

    Fast forward to today. A big band makes more money adjusted for inflation than almost any big act from 50 years ago. After licensing fees, royalties, etc., most bands are lucky to get about $.25 per album they sell. That's it. Divide that by 4 or 5 people in the band, and they have to pay bills... to make the big money the only way to go is to go platinum. Not realistic, and even the biggest daydreamers know that on some level being the top band in country isn't very likely. The real money is actually made on tours and live performances. CD sales really only amount to advertising for a tour.

    Record labels are completely unnecessary now, as far as I'm concerned. Not obsolete, but they are not a necessity. I hate to use the reference, but MySpace is proving that. Bands can now set up their own websites and distribute their own music with their own domain name or can set themselves up with any number of online distribution services. Will they get rich? No, but that's probably not why they are doing it.

    The RIAA is exists for only one reason... GREED. No other. They don't care about musicians. They definitely don't care about music. The RIAA is a parasite that feeds off the hard work of musicians. Some musicians benefit, but a lot of them just end up working their assess off fulfilling contracts that limit their creativity or just don't motivate them to create anything truly worthwhile. Ever notice why a lot of bands' 2nd and 3rd albums just aren't as good as their first albums? At one point, music becomes less of something that you create for others to enjoy and it starts to become nothing more than an obligation to produce 14 more songs between 3 and 5 minutes long that fit a formula for the genre.

    Speaking as both a musician and as a consumer, the closer distribution stays to the actual musicians creating the music, the better. We might not have as many overpaid rock stars running around, but we'll definitely have better things to listen to than Justin Timberlake or [insert your least favorite pop-star here]

  • DrBones, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Apple isnt allowed to be a label... according to their lawsuit with the beatles' management company... the links are on digg somewhere. It would also require Apple to start promoting actual artists, which I am not sure they would ever be willing to do. Cool idea though
  • bitcloud, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Yeah we're a band and are giving our music away for free to help fck over the RIAA. Some people buy the CDs at Gigs, but it really doesn't bother us... we certainly don't do it for the money. Check it out if you are interested in some lo-fi electronica played live with instruments and custom hacked apart gear. http://www.childreninthegame.net

    Please don't mod this down, because there are no ads or anything on the site, and I'd think giving away an album says more than giving away one's opinion.
  • BloodJunkie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8What's your band called?
  • GreatBunzinni, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Don't forget the MPAA and all the other media industry associations.
  • atmofunk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7does anybody else find this ClearChannel patent on recording live shows at the show a little bit disturbing?
  • dementedcrabs, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9No, but you see the RIAA voice the opinions of the artists!!! "We represent the artists" These are obviously not artists...
  • Etheo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I'm in the same shoes, and I fully support your method, as we're intending to do the same. The only thing that pisses me off is RIAA's actions that are so outrageously ridiculous, treating its customers like criminals. People will pay for what they like.
  • GreatBunzinni, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@Zoncor "Allot of the time since there isn't any quality control, independent CDs aren't that great."

    You are missing one very important aspect: the listener (YOU) is the one who should be doing the "quality control". The artists create art and the fans choose what they like and want to listen to and also what they don't like and don't want to listen to.

    Please don't say that the artists need someone to do "quality control" on their work. When you say that it seems that you want someone to tell you what to like and what not to like.
  • GreatBunzinni, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"RIAA" stands for Record Industry Association of America. It is an association created to represent and defend the interests of the USA's record industry. They do not represent the artists, even though that some artists act as sock puppets for the record industry.
  • hackwrench, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7http://www.kilna.com/ has two remixes of "Terrible Secret of Space" among other songs for free.
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Our band does the same thing. We put all our music on our website for free, and our fans have received it pretty well. It's all high-bitrate MP3 and high-quality OGG vorbis. We get a good bit of radio airtime here because of it on the indie stations. It's pretty cool driving down the street and then hearing somebody cranking your music in their car and them not knowing that you're in the band. ;)

    It's just vibrations in the air, and last I checked air was still free.

    I guess I have to give the obligatory plug now... http://www.lykachamp.com/music.html
    (as above no ads, we make no money off this site)
  • merdiesel, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10BloodJunkie, http://myspace.com/xfateofanationx, we only have our demo tracks on their right now, but check us out, if you want...
  • draebor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I think it's a great idea for musicians to share your recordings with new fans... this will help you create a fanbase and you won't have to compromise your artistic integrity by signing to a label.

    docillenstein: "So getting your band's name out there is great, but, assuming nobody's charging for music, you still haven't made any money. With the closing of so many live music venues across the states, how do you monetize being a musician? "

    First of all, if you're in the music business mainly to make money then you should rethink your priorities. The odds of getting rich as a musician are pretty low. Second, there are still tons of live music venues all over the world, and unsigned musicians can make way more money doing live shows and tours rather than earning the pittance of a nickel per dollar of CD revenue most record labels give the artists.
  • stevester, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I have done the same thing with my band's first album, and when we finish up our second, which will be soon, I will be doing the same thing with it.
  • wharlie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4MC Lars song "Download this Song" kicks arse and is getting airplay in Australia.
    He fully sticks it to the record labels and deserves all the recognition he can get.
    Of course you can download it for free at:
    http://www.myspace.com/mclars
    PS I am not affilliated with him, just a fan.
  • draebor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Uhh, hell yeah... that's like patenting the concept of a bootleg. Someone should patent the concept of patenting stupid sh*t then sue ClearChannel.
  • spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I make music and DJ mixes and give them away for free as well. In fact, I refuse money for my work. I think anyone who sells their art sells their soul, and anyone who uses any form of copy control on art released to the public is delusional.

    http://djbriandamage.blogspot.com
  • Rosco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'd like to personally thank everyone that has provided links to the free tunes! A lot of this I was not aware of, thank you for adding to the listening pleasure everyone!
  • dementedcrabs, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4:P Nah, it was sarcasm... If anyone actually said and meant that, they need to be shot.
  • redivider, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I've been on both/all sides (major label/indie/unsigned, currently pretty much unsigned) and even though we're not making a ton of money, it's way more satisfying.

    You may or may not have heard of us...

    Sinch
    http://www.sinch.net

    We're currently selling CDs through CDBaby and downloads through our own website (no DRM), as well as all the big DRMed stores, just because it comes with the CD Baby service. We'd recommend buying directly from us though as it's a better way to support the band, plus you get real mp3s.

    I normally woulnd't advertise in a place like this, but it seems like that's where the thread is going so why not...

    To comment on some earlier posts:

    I think it's great when bands are willing to just give their stuff away. But don't think that you're somehow "sticking it to the RIAA" by doing that. If you're not already on one of their labels they couldn't care less. If 1 person or 10 million people download your stuff for free, it's not gonna have much effect on the RIAA.

    Obviously if every indie band did that, less people might buy RIAA backed albums... or they might not. There;s not really a direct connection there. For all you know people will buy *more* RIAA albums with all the money they saved on indie releases!

    Honestly I think a better way to ***** the RIAA might be to charge for you music just like they do... except do it in a more fair and ethical way. Cheaper CDs, no DRM, more free downloads, etc. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. If you keep giving your music away, you'll never be able to compete with the RIAA on any level that's gonna matter.

    Again, I think it's great to give stuff away. We do it all the time. But at some point you have to make some money if you want to be able to really put 100% into the music and not have it become your weekend hobby.
  • cbiz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The article said "treat fans like fans". I think RIAA members should think about that every time they sue a fan.
  • klang, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Disturbing is a good word.... but, you must admit it .. it's genious .. ClearChannel suddenly has a means of getting money for something they had no monetary risk in producing...

    Don't you just love software patents? It's the American Way(tm)!
  • Eeqmcsq, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3If a big enough wave of artists become successful without the RIAA, and a big enough wave of fans follow them, where does that leave the RIAA?

    An association without a purpose in society.

    Now there's a nice thought for the day!
  • GreatBunzinni, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The music industry never cared for the artists. The music industry's mission is to act as a retailer for the band's product. The only thing they do is offer the means to distribute and market the work of the artists.

    Of course in the artist's point of view they do a lousy job at it. They pay like less than 5% of the sale value and because of some "loans" that the record companies give to the artists to record albums and videos (generally they force the artist to produce the album in house, where they practice price gouging) in the end the artist gets screwed big time.

    Of course that can change thanks to the internet. Now the marketing and retailing aspect of the business is a lot easier for the artists to do it themselves.
  • schwab002, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3merdiesel:
    i found your username at OPP and #it but you dont have any albums posted... maybe you should do a repost?
  • LoopyChew, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"DRM is only going to get more forceful in the future. There's no way to provide for the economic nature of the business without it.

    "You can't argue that people will go out and see shows when we all know we're spending more and more time sitting at home staring into our monitors."

    I beg to differ. Whenever a band I'm interested in--big label, independent, whatever--passes my way, I go see the live show whenever I can. Granted, it'll probably be a while before Bloc Party or TCM come out here, but I've managed the Mighty Mighty Bosstones, Morcheeba, Tokyo Ska Paradise Orchestra, Garbage, Franz Ferdinand and more

    DRM is subject to the wet-soap effect; the tighter you try to cling onto the soap, the more likely it'll pop out. In this case, the more the RIAA tries to wrench out of either its artists or its consumers, the more likely people will oppose them.
  • halicon5, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Isn't a patent supposed to be both novel and non-obvious? To me, recording a live show is about as obvious and unoriginal as it gets. I guess I'm not allowed to either record or videotape the next concert my band plays. I'd hate to run afoul of Clear Channel...
  • zubi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2archive.org has a live music archive: all legal all free. with awesome bands that all agree sharing is a good thing.

    http://www.archive.org/audio/etreelisting-browse.php

    They even updated their site to stream the music!!
  • Dhalgren, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2http://www.harveydanger.com/downloads/
  • djruden, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3http://www.silenceisdefeat.org/~stevie for Stevie Wallace's trax
    also, silenceisdefeat.org is a good place to get a shell account for a small donation -- i found out about it on digg... http://www.digg.com/linux_unix/Free_unix_shell_account
  • mynuts, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Steve Poltz has been doing this for years, recording shows and selling the CDs afterwards. His blog has been going on before blogging was even a word. Independent artists are cool....

    Download some of his stuff (recorded with Garage Band!) for free at http://www.poltz.com. Awesome songs.
  • chabuhi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Indie All the Way!

    http://www.beatnikturtle.com/
    http://www.jazzconspiracy.com/
    http://www.kleztraphobix.com/

    I know the first two at least give away some of their tunes, free for download. Not sure on the last one.

  • docsnavely, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2outstanding article! if only more shows would do this.

    down with cloudy channel ***** communnications!
  • dj_sea2005, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2For independent artists www.dance-industries.com is a great place to start. its full of nice down to earth people all doing their own thing... making great trance music!

    (i dont work for them, however, i have been using the site to upload my own music for about a year now. and i have to say, its excellent)
  • carpespasm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2a friend of mine who's been making music for years now has gotten so fed up with the music industry's lack of care for much more than the money that between him, myself, and a few others, we're producing a mixed media project
  • nybble41, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"I was thinking recently about how long is it until Apple's Itunes or a similar service says, 'We are a label now, artists get 50% and we get 50%.'"

    This is exactly what Magnatune does (http://www.magnatune.com/ ). They are a label that works on a "shareware"-like model, with Creative-Commons-licensed music and a variable pricing model for high-quality versions of their albums. They also negotiate for commercial use. The artists get 50% of all income from their albums, including commercial licensing.

    Not affiliated, just a fan.
  • halicon5, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Redivider:
    Good points and I agree with you. Just to clarify, when I said stick to the RIAA, I pretty much meant keep them as non-involved as possible, not necessarily giving things away for free... although I do think giving people free things is a good thing to do anyways.
  • merdeisel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1 schwab002, whats your user name on OPP?
  • monsterkody, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2You guys sound cool, I think
  • LycoLoco, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@Zonkzor - That music is pretty cool. The only thing that artist really needs to do is zip up his albums so you don't have to download them individually.
  • docillenstein, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"First of all, if you're in the music business mainly to make money then you should rethink your priorities. "

    Why do people keep saying this? Is it to validate the idea that a musician shouldn't make money? It's like saying 'they shouldn't expect to make money, so I shouldn't be expected to pay them'

    Fine. If anybody on here is a coder, programmer or whatever, I want to be able to download whatever you create for free. Everything you do should be open source so I can have it. If you have any tricks in coding, I want those documented for me to download.
  • acomj, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1RIAA Represents The Recording Industry

    ASCAP or BMI represent song writers and publishers (collects and distributes royalties)
    .
    http://www.ascap.com/index.html

    Musicians Represent themselves

    This is why I don't get why people alway critize the RIAA. They don't represent you. They are a trade group made up of the major labels, looking out for the major labels. What do you expect them to do?
  • xr56n44, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1i don't understand why big name artists don't sell their own stuff instead of staying with monolithic record corps. they must be either entangled for a long term or just too lazy or unable to setup a business. they certainly don't need name recognition.
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